Guantanamo detainee 'abused not tortured': US report

[Judi Lynn]

Last Update: Thursday, July 14, 2005. 9:00am (AEST)

Guantanamo detainee 'abused not tortured': US report

US Guantanamo Bay interrogators degraded and abused a key prisoner, but did not torture him, when they menaced him with a dog, told him he was gay, forced him to dance with another man and made him wear a bra and perform dog tricks, military investigators say.

The general who heads Southern Command, responsible for the jail for foreign terrorism suspects at the US naval base at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, also said he rejected his investigators' recommendation to punish a former commander of the prison.

A military report presented before the Senate Armed Services Committee stated a Saudi man, described as the "20th hijacker" slated to have participated in the September 11, 2001, attacks on America, was forced by interrogators in late 2002 to wear a bra and had women's thong underwear placed on his head.

US interrogators also told him he was a homosexual, forced him to dance with a male interrogator, told him his mother and sister were whores, forced him to wear a leash and perform dog tricks, menaced him with a dog and regularly subjected him to interrogations up to 20-hours-a-day for about two months, the report said.
(snip/...)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200507/s1413861.htm

[rocktivity]

1. Uh huh. And Rove is the victim, not the perp

:eyes:
rocknation

[leftofcool]

2. Yep, sure..................eom

[IndianaGreen]

3. Auschwitz prisoners disinfected, not gassed to death!

What Orwellian nightmare are we living through! Will it ever end?

[merwin]

10. I like that analogy :-)

[Eugene]

4. Psychological torture straight out of a CIA training manual.

They are splitting hairs over definitions.

[Disturbed]

5. We believe the Military?

Could it be that they are reporting on what they call "abuse" and leaving out other things? Hmmmm....

Even this is repugnant treatment and the U.S. is guilty of Violating the Geneva Conventions. There is no accountablitity or shame left in the Bush Regime or the Military. Why do so many in the world hate our Govt.? Duh.

[NNN0LHI]

6. Is that similar to "shaken not stirred"? n/t

[anotherdrew]

7. now they're abusing the rest of us too with this crap

Do they really think this shit is gonna make them talk? What they are doing over there is some sick mind control deprogramming/reprogramming if ya ask me. Maybe they plan to turn them into 'our' jihadis?

[mom cat]

8. So they are admitting to prisoner abuse:Geneva Conventions apply

no matter WHAT they call it!
These are War Crimes!

[anotherdrew]

19. sounds like it to me

now a few memos or recordings leak and all heck breaks loose

[joemurphy]

9. Torture's like pornography. We know it when we see it.

[tanyev]

11. Maybe it doesn't fit the classic definition of torture,

but it just seems ridiculous. Like the people who dreamed it up watch waaay too many action movies. And did these techniques work? I don't see how.

Why aren't the fundies who are offended by the slightest hint of sexuality howling about these techniques? One might wonder if some aberrant interrogators were getting a few jollies themselves from watching this stuff.

[norml]

12. Investigators recommended disciplining Gitmo commander

Investigators recommended disciplining Gitmo commander
Officials detail abuse of high-profile prisoner

Wednesday, July 13, 2005 Posted: 1926 GMT (0326 HKT)


Air Force Lt. Gen. Randall M. Schmidt testifies Wednesday before the Senate Armed Services Committee.RELATED
• CNN tours Gitmo
• Shepperd: Visit offers glimpse into Gitmo
• Lawmakers tour Gitmo
SPECIAL REPORT

• Security Watch
• Gallery: Hunt for al Qaeda
• Timeline: Al Qaeda attacks
• Explainer: Terror alert system
• Special ReportYOUR E-MAIL ALERTS

Guantanamo Bay Naval Base (Cuba)
Military Intelligence
Senate
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)
or Create Your Own
Manage Alerts | What Is This?

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Military investigators said they proposed disciplining the prison commander at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, because of abusive and degrading treatment of a suspected terrorist that included forcing him to wear a bra, dance with another man and behave like a dog.

They said Wednesday they recommended that Army Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller be reprimanded for failing to oversee his interrogation of the prisoner, who was suspected of involvement in the terror attacks of September 11, 2001.

Gen. Bantz J. Craddock, commander of U.S. Southern Command, said he overruled their recommendation and will instead refer the matter to the Army's inspector general. Craddock concluded that Miller did not violate any U.S. laws or policies, according to officials familiar with the report.

Investigators described their findings before the Senate Armed Services Committee Wednesday. They were looking into allegations by FBI agents who say they witnessed abusive interrogation techniques at the Guantanamo prison for terrorist suspects.


snip


http://edition.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/13/senate.guantanao.ap/

[reality based]

16. Is this the General Miller who was sent to Iraq to "improve" Abu Ghraib?

[WePurrsevere]

13. If the situation were reversed...

and it were American solders being treated in similar ways as we are treating these prisoners would it still be called only "abuse"? IMO what they did is BOTH torture and abuse and WRONG.

I will never understand why the military is allowed to try it's own on crimes. Unless it is strictly a milary law broken (not following orders, etc) then IMO any military person who commits a crime should be tried by an American court of law and/or world court imo. Asking the military to try it's own is so very much a conflict of interest imo.

[poetsdream]

15. Abuse or Torture = Wrong/Evil/Hateful

The casualness with which they state this is just so appalling. It is all so sickening. And America's collective indifference to it is just as disturbing...

[WePurrsevere]

25. Agreed and Welcome to DU fellow newbie...

I might also note that some folks who seem "indifferent" simply don't know what to do about all they see or where to go to find out what they can do (I have a recommended list to share when needed).

Also I've spoken to a couple of folks that are sadly very afraid to speak out against the neo-con Republican Bullies, Abusers and Traitors. :( I know I've always had to fight a bit of a similar haunting fear as well but I also know that "your silence will not protect you" and the freedom worth having is worth fighting for (even if it's mostly with the pen, a loud and persistent voice and mass protests).

[maddezmom]

14. Coercive methods prompted Sept. 11 figure to talk, general testifies

By Drew Brown

Knight Ridder Newspapers

WASHINGTON- A Saudi terror suspect admitted that he was the missing 20th hijacker in the Sept. 11 attacks during harsh interrogation at the U.S. prison camp at Guantanamo Bay, an Air Force general who investigated alleged abuse at the camp told a Senate committee Wednesday.


Air Force Lt. Gen. Randall M. Schmidt said Mohamed al-Kahtani said he had expected to be aboard United Airlines Flight 93, which crashed in a Pennsylvania field after passengers apparently attempted to retake control from the hijackers. Only four hijackers were aboard that plane; five hijackers were aboard each of the other planes that struck the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.


Schmidt said Kahtani confessed to participating in the hijacking only after frustrated interrogators began to use techniques that an FBI agent later complained were abusive.


Schmidt said his investigation of the FBI complaint found that Kahtani's treatment had been excessive in two instances - once when he was shackled to the floor and then when he was smeared with red ink that a female interrogator told him was menstrual blood. Schmidt said he had recommended that the commander of the camp at the time, Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, be reprimanded for failing to supervise the interrogation.



http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/12125923.htm

[daleo]

21. To my mind, this would make the confession very doubtful

There is plenty of evidence that confessions extracted under torture (or 'abuse') aren't truthful anyway. I think this case is being made now to capitalize on the London bombing. The hope is many people will think "it's worth it if it stops an event like that'. These same people forget that security bought at that price is neither valid (you throw away the ideals you are claiming to protect) nor reliable (your opponent now feels morally justified by the example you provide).

[anotherdrew]

17. it's said that bush 'pioneers' can be flown down to play "guard for a day"

$100k to the RNC gets you three days with up to 5 detainees for you to in-terror-gate as you see fit. It's club-med for sadists down there. You have to pass the RNC security check first of course, they can't have pornographers buying their way in. and NO cameras!

Seriously, the shit they are doing down there... I can't believe that any actual 'expert' in interrogation would expect any of these tactics to accomplish anything but strengthening their resolve. It's gross incompetence if nothing else.

[Disturbed]

18. When there is suspected Police Coruption does the...

State or Natl Govt. allow that Police Dept, to investigate itself?

[anotherdrew]

20. you mean IF an investigation ever even happens?

This is totally to be expected, and why they never should have gone about it this way. These bush clowns are so damn wrong about just about everything they touch it's amazing.

[Pert_UK]

22. More details (from BBC):

"* Female interrogators touched detainees inappropriately and smeared them with a substance they described as menstrual blood, but which was fake blood

* Interrogators threatened to go after a detainee's family

* Military staff impersonated FBI and state department interrogators

* Duct tape was used to bind the head and mouth of a detainee chanting verses of the Koran

* A detainee was chained to the floor in the foetal position

* Cold, heat, loud music and sleep deprivation were used on detainees."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4679901.stm

Great work guys! :sarcasm:

[maddezmom]

23. WaPo: Abu Ghraib Tactics Were First Used at Guantanamo (approved by Rummy)

By Josh White
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, July 14, 2005; Page A01

Interrogators at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, forced a stubborn detainee to wear women's underwear on his head, confronted him with snarling military working dogs and attached a leash to his chains, according to a newly released military investigation that shows the tactics were employed there months before military police used them on detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

The techniques, approved by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld for use in interrogating Mohamed Qahtani -- the alleged "20th hijacker" in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks -- were used at Guantanamo Bay in late 2002 as part of a special interrogation plan aimed at breaking down the silent detainee.



Gen. Bantz Craddock, commander of the U.S. Southern Command, testifies about the investigation of alleged detainee abuse at Guantanamo Bay. (By Chip Somodevilla -- Getty Images)
Military investigators who briefed the Senate Armed Services Committee yesterday on the three-month probe, called the tactics "creative" and "aggressive" but said they did not cross the line into torture.

The report's findings are the strongest indication yet that the abusive practices seen in photographs at Abu Ghraib were not the invention of a small group of thrill-seeking military police officers. The report shows that they were used on Qahtani several months before the United States invaded Iraq.

more:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/13/AR2005071302380.html

[Disturbed]

24. Durbin was right. He should have never apologized.

Has the U.S. Govt. &/or the U.S. Military commited War Crimes?

What is a war crime?
By Tarik Kafala
BBC News Online


Article 147 of the Fourth Geneva Convention defines war crimes as: "Willful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, including... willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, unlawful deportation or transfer or unlawful confinement of a protected person, compelling a protected person to serve in the forces of a hostile power, or willfully depriving a protected person of the rights of fair and regular trial, ...taking of hostages and extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly."


This, international lawyers say, is the basic definition of war crimes.

The statutes of The Hague tribunal say the court has the right to try suspects alleged to have violated the laws or customs of war in the former Yugoslavia since 1992. Examples of such violations are given in article 3:

* Wanton destruction of cities, towns or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity
* Attack, or bombardment, by whatever means, of undefended towns, villages, dwellings, or buildings
* Seizure of, destruction or willful damage done to institutions dedicated to religion, charity and education, the arts and sciences, historic monuments and works of art and science
* Plunder of public or private property.

The tribunal defines crime against humanity as crimes committed in armed conflict but directed against a civilian population. Again a list of examples is given in article 5:

* Murder
* Extermination
* Enslavement
* Deportation
* Imprisonment
* Torture
* Rape
* Persecutions on political, racial and religious grounds.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1420133.stm