LAT: Immigration Test Leaves Star Students in Free-Fall

[DeepModem Mom]

Immigration Test Leaves Star Students in Free-Fall
Science scholars found to have entered the U.S. illegally as children now face deportation.

By Nicholas Riccardi, Times Staff Writer


PHOENIX — The federal officer standing over Yuliana Huicochea fired off a question that no one had asked the high school honor student before: What was her immigration status?

Huicochea knew that her parents had brought her to the United States when she was 4 years old. She experienced an all-American childhood in Phoenix, excelling in public schools, eating at IHOP, watching "Law and Order" and dreaming of becoming an attorney.

But in June 2002, when Huicochea was 17, she and some classmates had gone to a national science competition in Buffalo, N.Y. As a treat, their teachers took them to Niagara Falls on the Canadian border — where immigration officials caught up with them.

After nine hours of detention, Huicochea found out the answer to the agent's question. She and three of her classmates, who had come to the U.S. between ages 2 and 7, were illegal immigrants. The federal government sent them back to Phoenix for deportation hearings, which have dragged on for three years.

On Thursday, the four face what is expected to be their final hearing. Their lawyers will make a last-ditch effort to allow them to stay in what the young people consider their home country. If that does not succeed, Huicochea and her former classmates will have to sever their connections with friends and family and return to Mexico, a place they barely remember....


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-honor19jul19,0,1370880.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[Xipe Totec]

1. Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

:sarcasm:

[Igel]

6. Isn't the problem not so much the 'golden door',

as the fact her father brought her in through a broken window in the back?

After all, I'm sure they're not talking about the sum total of immigrants' children that get science scholarships.

[Xipe Totec]

7. That's what happens when the 'Golden Door' is locked.

Immigration policy changes with the seasons. What is legal today may not be legal tomorrow.

If you happen to be from Cuba, all you have to do is step on American soil and you are automatically granted residence and all the government largess is at your disposal.

But Mexico is not our enemy, so we treat Mexicans differently.

[redqueen]

12. Exactly, not all immigrants are equal.

It's disgusting...

[Igel]

22. Which year in the last 25 has had a zero quota for

immigration from Mexico?

Ah. The locked door wasn't locked; there was a guard there. That Cuba gets special treatment doesn't argue for extending the same treatment to everybody any more than it does for denying special treatment to Cubans. That day's not far off, IMHO.

On the other hand, there's certainly a case for allowing anybody that wants to come in come on in, with their families, friends, relatives--whoever. It's just a weak one.

(I have the same kind of response to people I know that wanted to bring their families over--the INS insisted that they wait until there was a suitable slot in the quota, and the response was, They're breaking up families.

(My response was invariably that nobody forced the family members to abandon their parents, kids, or wives to come to America, nor is anyone preventing the family members in America from returning to their mother country to be united with their families. I usually got an obscenity in response.

(My Russian's good enough to return obscenities, so I usually did.)

[Xipe Totec]

25. This Year

For DV-2006, natives of the following countries are not eligible to apply because they sent a total of more than 50,000 immigrants to the U.S. in the previous five years:

CANADA, CHINA (mainland-born), COLOMBIA, DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, EL SALVADOR, HAITI, INDIA, JAMAICA, MEXICO, PAKISTAN, PHILIPPINES, RUSSIA, SOUTH KOREA, UNITED KINGDOM (except Northern Ireland) and its dependent territories, and VIETNAM.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1318.html

The only way for a Mexican to legally become a resident is through blood (sponsored by relative who is a US citizen) or via H1B (for those who are skilled and talented). Since there are more than enough people that fit into these categories, other people such as the family in question on this thread have absolutely no legal way through the system. Zip, Zero, nada.

If we as a society think that these people should not be here, then the solution is very simple: Criminalize employment of illegal aliens. Send a few employers to jail and watch this problem disappear immediately. No illegal jobs, no illegal immigration. Period.

Let's not allow those who are least able to defend themselves be the ones who pay the price for this gray labor market.

[Igel]

29. It is illegal.

And I've had to fill out the form for employees, or make sure they fill it out. I-9, I think it is.

That form's a waste of time. The requirements are so trivial for the employer that I had one employee complete several of them over the course of a year, under different names, with different SSNs. Always with sufficient, always fake, ID. Thus letting our employer off the hook, because nobody could ever prove that we knew she was an illegal immigrant. It was common knowledge that she had no documentation allowing her into the country, but she would only wink when I asked about it.

There's political will to make sure the ID is good enough to not be faked, or to have the Social Security Administration run duplicate or non-existant SSNs over to whatever agency it is that would look for those not here legally.

[reprobate]

30. Which of course, makes you a party to a criminal conspiracy.

Congratulations. And watch out for the black copters. Remember, this board is monitored by the BFEE.

[Igel]

32. The problem is that I had official ID saying she's here legally,

no authorization to verify it, and she never actually said she was here illegally. Then she'd explain that she used the wrong ID before, complete another I-9, and sign the form saying she was legally entitled to work.

We had suspicions. Proof? No. Deniability? Probably.

She bore a Mexican accent, a fairly high prestige one at that. She must have spoken a total of 5 words of English. We had a bilingual workplace.

[Xipe Totec]

35. A Serious Question

Where there other qualified candidates available for this job?

It seems to me that your company's options were limited in this case. Under these circumstances a company can legally hire a non citizen under an H1B visa. In fact that very same person that was obviously willing to take the job using (allegedly) fake papers, could be hired legally.

[Igel]

59. Probably.

The woman she hired was an excellent seamstress, and got fairly good wages. She was the only illegal immigrant they hired, well, at least the only one they put on the payroll.

There was even a time when the owner managed to produce a job description to get a specific man hired. Fluent in Mandarin and two other selected dialects of Chinese, familiarity with a couple of off-the-beaten-track areas, experience and contacts in a couple of different businesses, fluent English ... and then a naturalized US citizen showed up with the same skills. (This was LA; you want it, you can find it.) She added requirements she knew the American didn't have.

I knew that kind of thing went on in academia. I was surprised to see it go on in the private sector (although I don't know why, in retrospect).

The company didn't last a year after I quit to return to full-time grad school: it wasn't a viable enterprise in any event, even if the guy they hired hadn't embezzled a bunch of money. It was fully funded by the founder's divorce settlement, and when that ran out, the company folded. She founded the company to give rural, mostly uneducated Chinese women jobs in a sort of cottage industry, and to let them stay in their villages.

[AspenRose]

51. Not to mention Haitians....

Haitians are treated differently too.

[mbperrin]

13. How about we keep her and throw away some of the bastards who

are breaking the entire country?

Like taking Kenny Boy Lay somewhere else, for example? He ruined the lives of hundreds of thousands of people and inflicted misery on others, and he's skiing at Vail.

Let's by all means throw away bright young talent because of some imaginary line drawn across a piece of paper...

[sadiesworld]

14. That "imaginary line" you deride...

is what affords you the protections of the Constitution and the right to participate in a representative form of government.

Before I bought too heavily into the idea of a borderless world, I'd want to know EXACTLY what we were replacing it with...

edit for typo

[reprobate]

31. What "representative for of government"? Hasn't been that way for 4 yrs.

I don't know about you or your representatives, but mine answer only to the corporate interests that contribute to their campaign funds.

'Course, it didn't used to be that way. Once upon a time in the USA our congress actually represented the people. Fancy that. In fact I'm old enough to actually remember that.

And please define what protections of the constitution you are referring to. Remember, we are individuals, not corporations and as such we are specifically exempt from constitutional protections now.

I weep for my country, the United States of America, born July 4, 1776 and died December 12, 2000 at the age of 224. Coincidentally, two centuries seems to be the average longevity of ascendant nations. It was a good run. R.I.P.

[mbperrin]

39. Protections?

My school board member personally has the superintendent of schools visit my classroom to make sure that I'm not teaching independent entrepreneurship to my students in economics, but that, in his associates' words, "These kids just need to learn to count change; they'll never start a business." 60% of them are Hispanic, 85% are poor.

My taxes on my house went up 15% this year, and there are two vacant homes haven't sold in a year on my block. When I went to file an appeal, they told me I could do that, but no doubt they'd find something they missed.

As a teacher, I can be fired for writing a letter to the editor or talking to a reporter about anything that happens at school. As a teacher, I can be let go by simply not renewing my contract at the end of the year, without a reason, without other notice, and without recourse to unemployment benefits (we're "exempt")

They've cut our health stipend, eliminated our raises for the last two years, made our health coverage expensive $300 a month for just me, and the coverage is lousy; they've increased our teaching load 20%, while cutting planning and conferencing time by 80% from last year. They've cut our supply budget from $2500 per year per teacher 10 years ago to $175 per year per teacher the last two years.

Now what protections were those?

[Zorra]

27. Nice poem. It was written in 1883.

The population of the US at that time was 50,189,000.

The population of the US today is about 300,000,000.

Clearly, we are not in Kansas anymore.

There has been a sustained and successful effort to destroy labor competition in the US since the Reagan era. This effort has been concentrated and greatly accelerated under the Bu*h administration.

In 1980, the foreign born population of the US was 14.1 million.

By the year 2000, this number more than doubled to over 31.1 million.

Today, it is probably between 35 and 36 million.
(The U.S. foreign-born population increased nearly 5 percent between 2001 and 2002)

Source links:

http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0029/twps0029.html

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:Efc4s6-sRq8J:www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/c2kbr-34.pdf+foreign+born+population+Us+2000&hl=en

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/foreignborn.htm

The ratio of new workers entering the labor market, when compared to the number of jobs lost to outsourcing and downsizing, and when extrapolated upon into the not too distant future, adds up to an impending catastrophe for the American worker.

Don't say I didn't warn you.

[Xipe Totec]

28. So take the plaque down; it's false advertising

Hang a no vacancy sign instead.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

42. Oh it is no different. For as long as we have had immigrants, people have

been arguing that "things were different before but we're all full now". The only thing that's changed is the country that is supplying the immigrants.
Population density is much lower than many countries, especially when you take into account that many countries have a lot of land that isn't habitable.

[Zorra]

61. "Hogwash". And BTW, are you insinuating that I am a racist , that

I do not support illegal immigration because the majority of illegal immigrants entering the US are Mexican, Central American, or whatever? Because it appears that way to me. Using veiled personal attacks to try to justify a position is pretty lame.

FYI, I do not support any immigration at this time, legal or illegal, from anywhere. It is my opinion that our country is right now experiencing a crisis of epic proportions, politically and economically, and that our labor force does not need any extra competition at this time. Period. End of story.

Also, in case you did not know, the US ripped off a substantial amount of land from Mexico years ago, and Mexicans were here then, before then,, and Mexican immigrants have been coming here every year since, "legally" and "illegally".

But, anyway, it appears that you missed the main point of my post. Illegal immigration has increased radically in the past few years, and Bu*h has done nothing about it, and it appears that this is due to the fact that Bu*h wants to destroy any bargaining power that labor has. I will repost it:

"There has been a sustained and successful effort to destroy labor competition in the US since the Reagan era. This effort has been concentrated and greatly accelerated under the Bu*h administration."

"(The U.S. foreign-born population increased nearly 5 percent between 2001 and 2002)"

"The ratio of new workers entering the labor market, when compared to the number of jobs lost to outsourcing and downsizing, and when extrapolated upon into the not too distant future, adds up to an impending catastrophe for the American worker."

Furthermore, arguing that just because our population density is less than Haiti's, or Europe's, for that matter, it is reasonable to allow what is essentially unrestricted immigration is pretty lame.

Suggesting that simply because the US has some habitable land left that is not yet populated is a reason to allow essentially unrestricted immigration is also pretty lame.

That said, yes, honestly, I do selfishly want to keep what unspoiled lands and natural resources that we have left as pristine as possible, and do not want the country to be any more crowded than it already is.

(BTW, I am "mixed race", dark-skinned, and have experienced racial prejudice personally)

[sled]

2. Apparently...

justice isn't just for Americans, anymore..."you do the crime, you do the time"..."ignorance is no excuse"..."a nation of laws"..."equal justice under the law"...yada, yada, yada...

Adieu, ciao, au revoir, sayonara, cheerio, adios...later, tater...what part of "illegal" do "illegals" not understand???

"Science scholars", yet they're supposed to be ignorant, of the fact, that they're here illegally...give me a break..."Where did I cross? I said, 'Man, I was like 2. I have no idea.'"...yeah, right, ask your parents...it's not rocket science...

As long as it applies to all "illegals" equally...no problem...take a number, & wait your turn...

[pseudostar]

9. apparently

'As long as it applies to all "illegals" equally...no problem...take a number, & wait your turn...'

Well Fuck That! Im a huge fan of immigration reform and firmly believe that illegals should be deported. However, an exception should be made in this case because this kid was educated by the Public School system and is a freaking honor student.

The taxpayers paid a shitload of money to educate this young lady and her classmates and it makes little practical sense to throw the smart kids outta the country on principle. It isnt like we have a stockpile of domestic intellect anyway.

Here's a better idea. Deport their parents, you know the ones who made the illegal crossing, after these HONOR STUDENT NATIONAL SCIENCE COMPETITORS go to college. Dont worry, if they're crossing timezones to go to science competitions, they'll get scholarships

[sadiesworld]

10. She wants to be a lawyer...

let her go.

[sled]

33. Much as I'd like to agree...

it's a slippery slope, & it's still "illegal", & that seems to be the distinction drawn, around everything, these days. As the mantra goes, this is a "nation of laws"...rights, & reason now suck hind tit. Not the way I like it, but that's the net we've allowed to be thrown over us...Americans, anyway.

If we allow one exception, for the smart, who's next? The handsome get a bye? If we allow those most pleasing to the eye, the ugly start to scream. Do the strong, & vibrant get a pass? Then the gimps & infirm piss & moan, & we're back at square one, maybe worse.

If the cost, of the kids public education is key, then asset forfeiture seems to be an option, especially since it's used against Americans, at every opportunity. Why should it be different for folks, "illegal" by their very presence?

Whatever the answer, at this point it is the law, & like any other law, or so they tell us, it can be changed...until it is, it should be enforced, no exceptions.

[Xipe Totec]

36. It's Javert versus Jean Valjean

The law is the codification of what is acceptable behavior and what is not. It is descriptive, not prescriptive. Unjust laws are changed through civil disobedience.

Ask Rosa Parks.


All it would take
Was a flick of his knife.
Vengeance was his and he gave me back my life!
Damned if I’ll live in the debt of a thief
Damned if I’ll yield at the end of the chase
I am the Law and the Law is not mocked
I’ll spit his pity right back in his face
There is nothing on earth that we share
It is either Valjean or Javert!

[sled]

37. Not sure...

of your point. So illegal immigration is now an act of "civil disobedience"? That's a new one...first I've heard of it. Against the country the illegal leaves, or the country they enter, illegally?

Not sure how the old "Rosa Parks" analogy applies, since she is an American, not in the US illegally, & has every right, to petition her government, & practice civil disobedience, etc. Also, assuming you are an American, you have the right, to do likewise...go to any border, you prefer, & defend the alleged right, of anyone to enter America illegally, from any country you choose...after all, that is your right.

Javert versus Valjean? What does either have to do with illegal immigration? Weren't they both fictional characters, & both, I assume, legally in their native country? Sounds good, I guess, but completely irrelevant, when considering illegal immigration, into the US.

Maybe it's time to move past fantasy, & address the problem, with a good dose of reality. If you're for illegal immigration, support it anyway you wish...that's a right, reserved for each, & every American. Don't like the law, work to change it, but pithy statements, on the internet, somehow seems a very weak attempt at meaningful "civil disobedience".

PS: Interesting "user name"... ;-)

"In his honor, each year in the beginning of spring, people were sacrificed to him. These victims were flayed alive and the priests wore these skins in various rituals. These rituals symbolized the renewal of the earth and the budding of new life.

Xipe Totec is also the god of the west and the patron of goldsmiths. He is thought to be responsible for sending diseases to man, such as the plague, blindness and scabs."

[Xipe Totec]

40. The issue is this concept of 'illegal'

The segregation and disenfranchisement of one group over another based on some arbitrary rule. In this particular case discriminating against another human being based on the latitude/longitude of place of birth. Might as well discriminate based on astrological sign for all the sense it makes. Rosa Parks was a second class citizen based on a different arbitrary rule; in this case her ethnic origin.

Javert is the abstract representation of law. Valjean the representation of justice. And Victor Hugo teaches us that they are not the same thing. Your earlier statements regarding the absolute supremacy of the law reminded me of Javert's arguments for keeping Valjean in prison forever because he stole a loaf of bread to feed his family. It should not be hard to see the relationship between Valjean stealing bread and this family working illegally in the US.

The fact of the mater is that immigration law is a political plaything and changes at whim every year, depending on which political interest is in the ascendancy. My objection to the current set of laws is that they are hypocritical. The powers that be in this country are not really interested in stopping illegal immigration; there is too much profit in it. As I have stated previously, if they wanted to stop it they could criminalize the act of employing illegal immigrants, send a few employers to jail, and it would stop. Instead, the laws are written to use these unfortunates as victims for the Roman circus. It is entertainment for the unwashed masses.

Xipe Totec is also the God of rebirth and renewal; flaying his own skin to nourish humanity. I consider your remarks regarding my avatar an ad-hominem attack, and not a very good one. I'll be happy to discuss matters of law and immigration with you but would ask you to refrain from such character assassination by proxy.

[Robert Oak]

56. see, what a mess

that's why they really have to take these as a case by case basis.

not amnesty but not "Everbody gets deported" either. They really need to examine this case by case.

We wouldn't be in this mess if they had enforced immigration policy and secure borders but this has been going on for 20(?) 30(?) years
hence, we're going to have illegals who frankly really are Americans,
like it or not and then others who should be deported.

But, first secure the border
then punish the employers, with major, major fines and possible
jail terms for hiring illegals.

(plus vote NO on CAFTA, repeal NAFTA, put pressure on those blood sucking elites in C./S. America who keep their people in poverty..
this is a huge reason the problem is so massive).

[Gormy Cuss]

3. It is terribly sad that they are the innocent victims here

There was a similar story with a Filipino family in this area last year, and they were deported to a country that was essentially foreign because only the oldest had any memories of living there. The parents knew they had illegal status but because no one came after them in 15 + years they just pretended the problem had gone away.

Absent from this L.A. Times story is any mention of their parents' immigration status. There is only one passing reference to one youth's mother. Were the other family members caught up in this deportation action too, or are they all legally here except these kids? It's a weird omission from the reporting. Did the parents simply screw up on paperwork or did they know and choose not to tell their teenage children?

I think the same thing every time I hear about these stories: either enforce the laws we have, or change them. The current situation is intolerable.

[Zorra]

4. No biggy. Smart girl like that will be back in no time, and next time she

won't get caught.

[DBoon]

5. Our loss is Mexico's gain

She will do well no matter where she lives.

[Xipe Totec]

8. And the jobs will chase after her from here.

That's the other side of the coin. The more we restrict immigration, the more the jobs flow out of the country. I wonder how many people in this country are aware of this danger.

[primavera]

15. EXCELLENT point! n/t

[SemiCharmedQuark]

43. I have to admit...

I found the issue nebulous until I took some economics classes. It is hard to get through the basics to what the reality is. Things are never as simple as they appear to be.

[sadiesworld]

11. This must be one of those nasty illegal immigrant rants I hear about.

:eyes:

[MisterP]

16. but the bloated Nat'l. Alliance and Aryan Nations vigilante yahoos

who want to kill all the brown people with their new AK's in Ariz. and N.M. and Calif. are beautiful, beautiful people who are a true grassroots group who are bringing our attention to a horrible, scary, and dangerous problem that hurts blue-collar workers *sob*. :sarcasm:
Or something like that, I don't know: I'm incapable of "thinking" the way the Minutemen-leg-humpers do here.

[sadiesworld]

18. Corporate media give cheap-labor lovers what they want.

Leg-humpers indeed.

[MisterP]

19. heck, they called the Minutemen "agents"! no legitimizing there, no...

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sled]

38. You batted 1000...

You hit every inflamatory, derogatory, stereotype, in one short post...with a little race-baiting to boot...sure changed a lot of opinions, no doubt...

"I'm incapable of 'thinking'"...truer words never written...

[SemiCharmedQuark]

41. "race baiting"?

What are you talking about? Other than his sarcastic comments...I saw no stereotypes, race baiting. The spokesperson of the minutemen is an outspoken racist. That's not baiting. That is fact. Chris Simcox. Check him out and then come back and say its a "stereotype".

Here's a nice quote by him:

"I dare the president of the United States to arrest me." He added, "I will protect this country against an invasion of Mexican aliens. I've been out on the border for 10 months, and I can tell you that we have to be armed."

Any group that appoints such a complete nutcase to any position of power isn't right.

[MisterP]

45. *whispers* and by the way the Border Patrol is going to deputize

"volunteers"

[sled]

46. Did I stutter???

So if "race-baiting" does not include pointing at "brown people", as though they define all "illegal immigration", I stand corrected. Apparently, in some peoples' minds, "Mexican" citizen is interchangeable with "brown people", as though either was all inclusive. Personally, I don't care an "illegal" immigrant's country of origin...Europe, the Middle East, Mexico, Brazil, wherever, they're here illegally, & that's the bottom line. They won't allow an American to move into their countries, freely, & a little reciprocity, at least, is in order.

It's the law, & it needs to be enforced, period. If you don't like it, feel free to contact your elected representatives, & have it changed. Hell, go to the border, & hold hands, singing "Kumbaya"...whatever...at least stand up, for what you believe in.

Once again, while a minority of opinion, within the party, flails themselves over nonsense, they cannot possibly win, another issue passes by, completely unaddressed. Whether you like it or not, the anti-illegal immigration movement is growing by leaps & bounds, from all sides of the political spectrum, a true populist/centrist issue, & the "leadership", & their shrinking flock, clearly stands tilting at windmills, as they're blown into a heap, right before your eyes.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

47. I do believe the poster was being sarcastic...hence the dripping sarcasm

emote.

Because that really is what many of those racists down at the border believe. Are all the men at the border racists? Hmm, dont know about that, but I do know they've appointed known racists at their helm.

I don't give a crap what the majority believes. If they are wrong, they're wrong. And I don't believe in sacrificing principles for the sake of winning elections.

[sled]

49. Assuming...

That those who oppose "illegal" immigration are bereft of principle, & not giving "a crap what the majority believes" is a fool's errand...& in a democracy, it's a recipe for political disaster. And to not know if "all the men at the border" are "racists", & to suggest (or support one who suggests) otherwise is, a little, unprincipled, don't you think?

Considering what's happened, under the current administration, winning elections should be of paramount importance, even if it means toning it down, & considering other opinions. There's no time for philosophy lessons, & attempting to indoctrinate our fellow Americans, with ideas that have never been proven to work, in the first place, at such a late date, continues to be a losing proposition. The "leadership" needs to lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way...probably best, if they just get out of the way, at this point.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

53. What other principles are you willing to sacrifice?

And please, I KNOW that many of those at the border are motivated by racism. Look at their language and look at who they appointed at their helm. In fact, I would BET that most there are racists. Are all of them? Well, I can't say that.

LOL, unprincipled...this from the person who suggests giving up principles to win elections. That is beautiful!

And you know, this isn't about those who "believe in immigration reform". This is about the assholes standing on the border with guns. Those are the people the other poster referred to and those are the people that I am referring to.

[sled]

54. That's not what I wrote...

I never wrote that anyone should give up their "priniciples", & trying to distort what I wrote, to support your argument, seems to indicate a person of the contrary nature. I suggested toning it down, & maybe being a little more considerate of other opinions. Preaching to the choir, & thinking it indicates some mass of support, is, like I wrote before, a fool's errand.

My point being, the juvenile name-calling should cease, because that rushing sound you hear is folks, leaving the party, who are tired of political philosophy, that couldn't survive a high school civics class, much less be defined as some "enlightened" progressive school of thought, & it's driving Americans away from the party, in droves. How many more losses can one party stand? How many more Democrats must be driven away, by those who can't yield, even though their ideas, barely reflect a minimal minority opinion, much less something in the mainstream. Playing the lesser of two evils, & losing, sure as hell's not something to rave about, like it, or not.

And just because you think playing the race card's a winner, doesn't make it so, if anything, it'll probably back fire, just like most of the other "issues", that have blown up, in the party's faces. They won't even protect our votes...nothing but a sick joke..."Grand Theft Auto", yeah boy, that'll bring in the votes...& guns??? Where's the "leadership" on guns???

Beating a dead horse, has never brought one back to life, yet, but keep flogging the bitch...one hand clapping.

If Kerry couldn't win, with all the support he had in 2004, including the ABB vote, chances are, it'll get worse from here. Sitting around, & hoping for the other side to lose, isn't a winning strategy, not even close.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

55. The "race card"? Is that what we call tolerance now?

Do you believe the "we have too much Political Correctness" bullshit too?

[sled]

57. "too much Political Correctness"???

Maybe...lack of manners, & respect??? Obviously...

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

17. I feel terrible, BUT

I was a legal immigrant, I graduated from public school in NC, I did very well (especially since I had only my two years in high school to learn how to write, speak and read in English), I went on to college, but because of my visa I had to pay tuition like an international student (lots and lots of $$$$), putting a strain on my family's finances, despite the company attorney's attempts to recognize my status as an "in-state student" for tuition purposes.

In a way, I feel terrible about children having to pay for the 'sins' of their parents. At the same time, as an immigration professional, I am well aware that there are no laws in the book to remedy this situation which, I am afraid, will worsen as the children of those who arrived or stayed illegally will grow up and eventually have to come to terms with their illegal status.

[DeaconBlues]

21. these kids have only their parents to blame

It was the parents who broke the law and showed disrespect to this country and those who are trying to enter and become citizens legally. That said, I hope there is some way that these obviously gifted kids are given the chance to stay and become citizens on their own.

[Xipe Totec]

23. There is no recourse. There never was.

That, unfortunately, is the situation for these disenfranchised people. For some, there is absolutely no way to become legal residents.

What is particularly galling is that Congress specifically excluded employers from any kind of penalty regarding illegal immigration. This puts all of the risk on these people:

Act of March 20, 1952 (66 Statutes-at-Large 26) Amended the Immigration Act of 1917, making it a felony to bring in or willfully induce an alien unlawfully to enter or reside in the United States. However, the usual and normal practices incident to employment were not deemed to constitute harboring.

http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/aboutus/statistics/legishist/509.htm

If Congress truly wanted to end illegal immigration, they would criminalize the act of employing illegal immigrants. I would support such a law because it would be effective and it would hold those who are truly responsible for this problem equally accountable. But I am sure that would go over like a lead balloon.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

24. On a related subject,

even though I only work in corporate immigration (i.e., lawful employment/residence of highly skilled or highly educated foreign professionals, artists, models, actors, celebrities, etc.), you won't believe how many calls we get on a daily (yes, daily!) basis from people who are in the U.S. illegally (either by overstaying their visas or having entered without inspection) who ask us if their babies or young children born in the U.S. grant them any legal status or if having a child in the U.S. will grant any status (for those interested, the answer is no. When that child turns 21, s/he can petition on behalf of his/her parents, but no immigration status is received by birthing or conceiving a child in the U.S.).

[Xipe Totec]

26. But the child will be a US citizen.

And will, eventually, be able to sponsor his parents for residence.

(on edit)

For many parents the future of their children is more important than their own.

[Gormy Cuss]

44. We can't even bother to enforce the existing penalties

Weak as they are, but outlined in Reagan's immigration reform act of 1986:

Under the employer sanctions provision of IRCA, employers who hire aliens not authorized to work in the United States are subject to fines ranging from $250 to $10,000 for each unauthorized alien. Any employer who shows a persistent pattern of hiring unauthorized aliens risks a maximum 6-month prison sentence. Every employer, therefore, is required to verify that all employees hired after December 1, 1988, are eligible to work in the United States.

Imagine if the government fined $10,000 per alien hire and 6 months in jail. That would be a good start. As it stands now employers can take advantage of illegal workers with little threat of penalty.

[AzDar]

34. ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL....period. Don't want your children to be faced

with the threat of deportation at any time (including AFTER receiving an American taxpayer-funded education)??? Then don't enter the country and remain in the country ILLEGALLY!
The drain on public resources from hospitals to schools to law enforcement caused by illegal immigrants is devastating here in Arizona. Allowing illegals to remain in the U.S., no matter how upstanding the individual may be, is a slap in the face to our legal system, as well as those who bother to come here through LEGAL channels.

[NNguyenMD]

52. explain to me how these kids are a drain on our resources if...

one they plan on staying in this country, get a decent education, get a job, and pay taxes like any other America.

I would rather these four gets reap the benefits of a publically funded education than the foreign students colleges around the country aggressively recruit from India, China, Taiwan, the Middleeast and Europe to study in the US. And if you've gone to college in the last 10 years then you know exactly whom I'm talking about. Ever taken a chemistry lab course at say UC Berkely? Or Binghamton University? Hardly any of them speak proper english (except for the Indian TA's) and its clear when you speak to them that none of them plan on staying here as tax payers once they're done exploiting our publically funded colleges.

Those are the ones who are a drain to our system because those students are on the next flight back to Shen Yang, Taipei, Madras or whereever they're from the second they get their diploma.

Lay off these kids, they were raised here and are more American than most foreigners with a greencard. They have no criminal record, they've made it clear that this is their home, and I have no reason to believe that they could do nothing more than support this country as loyal tax paying Americans just like anyone else.

[AzDar]

60. As I stated before...ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL. Are you seriously stating that

if illegals can manage to game the system for for a certain period of time they are somehow 'legitimate'?
Why have immigration laws at all?
"Calling all parents of toddlers in Mexico...."

[WhiteTara]

48. kick

[KamaAina]

50. Update: Judge smacks down racist officials, throws case out!

Score one for the good guys!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050721/ap_on_re_us/immigrant_students;_ylt=AmxExeMXs82nHjdJQQ_kdZ1G2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

PHOENIX - A judge on Thursday threw out the deportation case against four young people who were taking part in a high school science competition near the Canadian border when the government found out that the students were brought to the U.S. illegally as toddlers.

U.S. Immigration Judge John Richardson granted a request from the four to exclude key evidence in the case, ruling that agents questioned the students based on their Hispanic appearance....

During their attempt to cross the border, the students said they faced aggressive questioning about their identification, country of birth and when they were brought into the country. Three of the students testified that border officials made racially offensive comments in their presence.

A female border supervisor, whose name none of the students remembered and who was not identified in court, had said the students may blend in in Hispanic-heavy Arizona but not in Buffalo, the three testified.

More bigotry from our government officials inside, unfortunately.

For insightful commentary on the verdict, we go now to Nelson Muntz:

HA-HA!!! :bounce:

Edit: Good thing we still have some Federal judges who aren't dyed-in-the-wool Federalists, isn't it?

[Javaman]

58. And yet another American hating foriegner is born....

We do more in this country to shoot ourselves in the foot, then to help it. Deport these Americans because a piece of paper tells you they aren't Americans?
My personal opinion is: if these people have, 1) spent more time in the US than in their native country, 2)Know only English as their primary language or 3) Have spent more than 80% of their lives here in the US, they should be automatic citizens.

Each day in a new way, I find a new thing to that makes me hate and loath the repukes. Fucking know nothing isolationist cowards.

Colossal failure*