Black Preachers Embrace Homosexuality as Another of God's Works

[NNN0LHI]

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBAD19KUBE.html

NEW YORK (AP) - The words that the Rev. James A. Forbes chose to share with the roomful of black gay and lesbian faithful might have come straight from the civil rights struggles of the 1960s.

Forbes reminded his listeners that discrimination has no place in this world and urged them to lay down the notion put forward by some black ministers that they are less favored by God.

"Your job is to get up every day and be grateful to God for your DNA," Forbes said. "It took an artist divine to make this design!"

Forbes, senior minister at the Riverside Church, was among several religious leaders and politicians who attended a revival meeting Sunday aimed at countering what organizers said was a surge in anti-gay rhetoric coming from pulpits in conservative parishes.

[Solly Mack]

1. Excellent

[Laughing Mirror]

2. And this from Wash Post the other day

Pastor Apologizes for Remarks on Lesbians

By Hamil R. Harris
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, July 30, 2005; B03

The Rev. Willie F. Wilson, one of the city's most prominent pastors, issued an apology last night for remarks he made in a recent sermon that denounced lesbianism.

Wilson said he wished to apologize to anyone offended by his sermon July 3 at Union Temple Baptist Church in Southeast Washington. At points in the sermon, he disparaged lesbianism in graphic language and warned that it was about "to take over our community."

. . .

In his sermon, Wilson asserted that one reason women become lesbians is because a "lot of sisters making more money than brothers."

He also said his son told him that he couldn't get a date to the prom because "all the girls in my class are gay. Ain't but two of 'em straight, and both them ugly."

Wilson said irate calls about the sermon flooded his telephone line and prompted him to change his number.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/29/AR2005072902392_pf.html

[MountainLaurel]

5. I wonder how sincere he is

Or if he's concerned about the pullout of gay and feminist groups from the Million People March, which he is heading up.

[Laughing Mirror]

14. His 5-page apology attempts to address his sincerity

I'll let you read it for yourself.

http://www.uniontemple.com/docs/statement_rev20050703.pdf

[Maven]

26. This is a joke, right

"Many girls are getting involved because they have been threatened and intimidated into participating by same sex girls’ gangs."

and

"I very strongly feel that any problems in the Black family should adhere to the sagacious admonitions of our elders who told us “what goes on in the family, stays in the family."

Yeah, in other words, keep it to yourself, faggot, and we'll get along fine.

:grr:

[Laughing Mirror]

32. I don't know about the lesbian girl gangs

That might be going on over in Southeast DC these days. There was always child sex there, decades ago there in my childhood days. It is an extremely poor dumping ground part of town, with terrible crime and drugs and so on. Always has been a very rough tough place for the most part, many broken homes. It might help to have an understanding of that when you are reading this.

There are many things going on in the Pastor's statement.

The part you're talking about, pre-pubescent girls having sex and getting caught up in these gangs. Child sex is better dealt with as a family matter, I think he is saying. The family should have to deal with it so that it does not become a police matter or one with the courts, and the child would wind up being taken away.

I did not take the statement to say shut up faggots, but I can understand how you could.

I take it these girl gangs are pretty butch and mean, and they terrorize Reverend Wilson, perhaps personally. Who knows? I wouldn't put it past them. They're a lot of bad girls in Southeast. Reverend Wilson is probably scared to death of them.

[William769]

7. Great news!

[progressoid]

8. He's a "prominent" pastor?

With statements like that he should be a non-existent pastor. Is his entire church filled with men?

[Laughing Mirror]

12. About Pastor Wilson and Union Temple Baptist congregation

During Reverend Wilson’s 31 years of inspirational leadership, the membership has grown to over 8,000 and God continually adds to the church. Rev Wilson has distinguished UTBC as one that is on the cutting edge of social, economic, and political changes with the church, community, and the world. UTBC ministries and programs include, but are not limited to: The Akoma Project which provides case management to individuals suffering from HIV/AIDS, the Aya Program which provides long term welfare recipients with assistance in the transition from welfare to work, the Harambee House which provides residential and counseling services to court adjudicated juveniles, the Manhood & Womanhood Training Programs which assist adolescents in their transition from childhood to adulthood. Drawing upon African heritage and contemporary economics, UTBC integrates African culture into all aspects of the worship service: development of O.U.R.S. which is designed to sale African-American made products to African-American consumers, making good use of the dancing, music making talents and skills peculiar to our “African roots” and the Tribal System to enhance spiritual development, fellowship, communication, implementation of church programs and policies, and to ensure the general welfare of the church and its members. UTBC serves as host to the Leon Wright Seminary for those within the community who choose to expand their knowledge of the Christian church. Finally, UTBC co-sponsors the outdoor festival, UNIFEST, which routinely draws 200,000 visitors each year.

UTBC was nominated by the National Conference of Black Churchmen as one of the 100 model Black churches in America and was selected by President of the United States, William J. Clinton, as 1 of 16 groups to receive the Presidential Service Award in 1997.

http://www.uniontemple.com/history.htm

[progressoid]

16. Thats great (just as long as they aren't gay, ugly or making too much $...

...or fill in the blank).

Makes one wonder what they are telling the kids in the "Manhood & Womanhood Training Programs".

[Laughing Mirror]

24. Perhaps he will have to marry an ugly lesbian couple in his church

in order to receive some sort of penance.



Reverend Willie F. Wilson, born in Newport News, Virginia and ordained Nana Kwadwo Boafo I, a Wolof Priest in the Gambia, West African, is very much at home in Anacostia, Southeast, Washington, D.C. (U.S.A) where for the past 31 years he has propagated and nurtured a Christo-centric, Afro-centric, Afro-sensitive, liberation ministry that simply says: “It’s a Family Affair.”
. . .

Rev Wilson has authored three books: The African American Wedding Manual, Releasing the Power Within, The Genius of Jesus Revealed, and How African Religion Changed the American Church. He has been cited in numerous other publications. He is sought-after preacher and speaker. He has appeared on television and talk radio shows across the United States.

Rev Wilson has counseled with African kings and queens and has married African kings and queens. Under his leadership Union Temple Baptist Church has expanded its “firsts” to include Alcoholics Anonymous, Rites of Passage Programs, Kwanzaa Celebration, gay/lesbian forum, inter-faith worship with Orthodox Muslims, ordination of women and exile from the Baptist Ministry Conference. Thirty years ago it was unthinkable to have step teams and praise dancers in the church; however, today such ministries are widely accepted as expressions of praise to God.

http://www.uniontemple.com/pastors_biography.htm

[LeftyMom]

29. What's up wth the big Ankh on his neck?

When last I checked that was a symbol of the egyptian pantheon.

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

[Javaman]

9. Perhaps, Sir, your son is the ugly one.

What a jerk.

[Hobarticus]

11. No doubt...doesn't help that his dad's a horse's ass, either n/t

[0007]

28. I'll second that, LOL!

[fortyfeetunder]

13. For Rev. Wilson: his sermon was not about love

I listened to the context of his original sermon. I naively used to think ministers would preach love, tolerance, and charity.

Now I am more cynical from what I see and hear. It appears that sermons of vile, hatred, and intolerance are now tolerated.

And that comment about his son's prom experience -- that had to be a half-fabricated comment. First, for a minister's son, he wasn't limited to taking a girl from school to the prom, he could have very well taken one of his fellow parishioners. And the part about being gay? What was sexual orientation important -- was he planning a sexual experience after the prom? And the ugly part was probably a reflection of his own attitude formed by his dad....

I am glad the minister got an earful from his hateful comments. I guess he'll be asking for a bunch of forgiveness....

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

31. That's what I don't get - why don't people get up and walk out?

I would. I would get right up at the first intolerant or hateful thing said during a sermon and walk right out of a church and never look back.

[fortyfeetunder]

34. A question of courage vs upbringing

My observation based from childhood is ministers were revered and respected members of the community. In some places, put on a pedestal, as if they are (wo)men of God, that type of thing. And to differ or dissent publicly would be a rebuke to the Church itself, not just to the (wo)man.

Later it was obvious minsters weren't God-like creatures but mere mortal human beings, capable of sinning, being intolerant and evil just like the rest of us could be. Many people fail to see beyond that and will stay like sheep, hanging on to every word spoken from this minister, regardless of character.

[SemperEadem]

39. then, he would say from the pulpit

that Satan drove you from the church because he couldn't stand for you to hear the God's truth being spoken to you.

For a people who've already been looked down upon throughout their history in this country, for them it feels good to know that they can look down their noses and judge another, believing that nothing they do---gossiping, lying, drinking, etc--rises to the level of offense with God, and if it does, then Jesus will forgive them and that's all they need to know.

That's why they don't walk out... they don't believe that they're the one's being talked about.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

44. Right, the "they came for them and I said nothing" syndrome

I feel about such people as I feel about voters who are experiencing buyer's remorse. That is, "tough crap - you made your choice - why should I care that you regret it?" It's hard to rise above such bitterness.

[Matariki]

27. mwhahaha

says something about his son. go to the prom with you? um, i'm gay this weekend.

[SemperEadem]

38. doesn't Wilson's bible also say:

"A doubleminded man is unstable in all his ways"?

Flip flop.

[LizW]

3. Aw, bad news for the GOP

who intend to use hate to make inroads into black churches.

[Stand and Fight]

4. Good!

The Civil Rights movement needs to continue by protecting the rights of homosexual Americans. There is no reason that discrimination should be allowed in this country on any basis whatsoever. I am superbly happy to see that some clergy in the black community remember what the Civil Rights struggles in the past were all about.

[BoneDaddy]

Agreed

I have always found homophobia in the black community to be utterly contradictory and totally illogical. After what they, as a people, have been through, I always found it strangely inconsistent when I have witnessed the level of homophobia among an oppressed people.

[Stand and Fight]

35. Not all blacks are that way.

Thank God.

I'm not that way; however, in my teen years I was so inclined because of ignorance.

[SemperEadem]

40. I'm not that way, either

at any point in my life.

[msongs]

6. the intelligent design mafia may be having a change of heart? n/t

[gratuitous]

10. I saw James Forbes a few years ago

The Presbyterian faction that advocates for full inclusion of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered and intersexed persons is call "More Light" and they had their national meeting in Portland a few years ago. Forbes was the featured speaker, and he flew across the country to deliver his speech, then flew back to lead worship the next day.

He was a dynamic speaker, articulate and enthusiastic about the rightful place of sexual minorities in society and in congregations. I'm glad to see that he's getting some larger coverage at last. Forbes is terrific!

[Doctor_J]

15. The GOP was very successful getting black voters

over to their side by bashing gays. That usefulness will probably not diminish because of this, unfortunately.

[kitkatrose]

22. I don't believe that.

I'm black and my church and area (I live in the South) went pretty high for Kerry. They may have gotten other votes, but I think those that said they voted against gay marriage would have voted Republican anyway. Just my $.02

[Doctor_J]

23. I don't know.

Nationwide the % of black voters for Gore was around 90%, for Kerry was only around 80, IIRC. I think this issue was one of the factors. Just MHO, of course.

[Laughing Mirror]

25. The Black Commentator has done the math

Eleven percent of the Black electorate voted for George Bush – less than the Black vote for Ronald Reagan in 1980, but two percent more than Bush got in 2000. The Black Commentator did the math, and found that the real shift in Black votes was about one quarter million, nationwide – a very expensive fraction, given the tens of millions of dollars in bribes doled out to Black preachers through Faith-Based Initiative programs. Our conclusion, on November 4, was that Blacks and progressives should “Concede Nothing to Bush: Black Consensus Remains Intact.”

http://www.blackcommentator.com/148/148_cover_best_covers.html

Fanning the embers of homophobia with millions of dollars. What a surprise!

[Peace Patriot]

30. 1. Purges of many thousands of black voters in Florida and Ohio (and,

if Greg Palast is correct, of 1-2 million black voters nationwide).

2. Deliberate, extensive shorting of precincts and voting machines in black areas in Ohio; unwarranted challenges to black voters resulting in provisional ballots that were not counted; threats, intimidation and other dirty tricks, mostly against black voters, in Ohio, Florida and other places.

3. Diebold and ES&S tabulated 80% of the votes nationwide, using secret, proprietary software--two companies with close ties to the Bush Cartel.

You're going to rely on these numbers from Diebold and ES&S? You need to visit the DU "2004 Election Results and Discussion Forum."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203

I think that anti-gay bigotry in black churches is about as real as Karl Rove's "Invisible get out the vote campaign." (Note: The Democrats blew the Bushites away in new voter registration in 2004, nearly 60/40.)

[kitkatrose]

33. True, but I don't think this was as much

of a factor as people think. I may be talking out of my ass here, but I think there's a sense of the Democratic party taking the black vote for granted so we're drifting away. My mother's response to Kerry was that he was a wimp (she voted for him anyway, cuz she detests shrub). I think there was a big disconnect on what Kerry was standing for, whether that's his fault, or the media's fault, I don't know.

[Barkley]

36. Bush understands blacks vote democratic for economic reasons

and that's the purpose of lining black preachers' pockets with faith-based moneies.

But given the blacks' hostility to gays I'd expect a much larger defection than 250,000 voter in 2004.

Overall, Blacks still vote their pocketbooks; until 2000 most whites did the same.

[Straight Shooter]

17. There once was a poster captioned "God made me, and God don't make junk."

It was a very popular poster a decade or so ago, but I can't find it online so unable to post a pic here.

AFAIC, if you believe in God, you better believe that God doesn't make mistakes in the creation of each and every sentient being on Earth. If you believe in intelligent design, also, there's no way that homosexuality exists except through a deliberate decision of the Creator, and "God don't make junk."

[brentspeak]

18. When I was working at a bookstore

We usually had topics like "Woman's Studies", "Native American Studies", "Gay&Lesbian Studies", and "African-American Studies" adjacent to one another. But we kept moving the African-American Studies section around due to complaints from some black customers of it "being too close to the gay section". First, someone was unhappy that the two were directly adjacent; then, another was miffed that the two were directly opposite one another.

Finally, it was decided to simply move the African-American section to another aisle, altogether.

[MountainLaurel]

20. Holy crap!

:wow:

And to think I get cranky because books on wicca and Buddhism are in the "new age studies" section and not "Religion"

[SemperEadem]

41. were the books having sex in the store in front of children?

jeez! Some people really need a quarter to go buy a life.

[kweerwolf]

19. Every time I read about a black minister bashing gays ...

... it make me wonder how much federal "faith-based initiative" money they are getting. It sickens me to hear African-Americans use the same Bible that was used to justify slavery, segregation and other institutional bigotry to bash gays. But as long as they are turning to the Old Testament for advice, perhaps they should take a fresh look at the story of Esau and Jacob and how Esau sold his birthright to Jacob for a single meal. Perhaps it's not too late for them to realize that selling one's birthright - for a meal or for a piece of the faith-based initiative "pie" - seldom has a happy ending.

I'm just grateful that some can see through the rampant homophobia and understand that gay rights are a matter of human rights and that none of us are free until all of us are free.

[stepnw1f]

21. Wow

Now that is LEADERSHIP!

[Barkley]

37. Does anyone know if parents arranged marriages in Biblical times?

This "sanctity of marriage" line is really start to bother me.

[Voltaire99]

42. Hope for some Christians, anyway. nt

[startingnow]

43. Hallelujah!

:)