25% of Toyota's U.S. sales will be hybrids

[nashville_brook]

(from Automotive News "breaking news" email alert -- yesterday the "breaking news" was that Ford sales of F-Series trucks rose 27%.)

http://www.autonews.com/defaultRegister.cms?newsId=12988

TRAVERSE CITY, Mich. -- One-quarter of Toyota Motor Corp.'s U.S. sales by the end of the decade will be hybrid vehicles, Jim Press, president of Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc., said Wednesday at the Management Briefing Seminars.

Toyota has 10 hybrid vehicles under development for global markets, in addition to the ones it already has launched, Press said. Those will go on sale between now and the end of the decade, he said.

Hybrids could account for "10, 12 or 15 percent" of industry-wide sales by the end of the decade, he said. Press added that he could not be specific about the percentage because he doesn't know what other automakers have planned.

However, "the demand will be there," Press said.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. Well I hope this is a strong message to other manufacturers!

The demand is there! Now fucking supply it!!!

[termo]

3. more than 50 mpg with my diesel car :O)

not sold in US, btw

[still_one]

12. that is the problem

disesel is extremely efficient, unfortunately, most of the diesels here are NOT. In addition, it used to be that diesel was cheaper than gasoline, that is now reversed. I have no idea why

[KeepItReal]

20. Diesel price has gone higher than gas...check it out

From an article in 2004:

"Diesel prices have jumped 48 percent in a year from $1.49 a gallon to average $2.21 a gallon nationally, the U.S. Energy Information Agency reports. The statewide average in Michigan is $2.25 and according to AAA Michigan is the highest in history.

Michigan motorists are paying an average of $2.03 a gallon for regular unleaded gasoline, compared with $1.56 last October. Meanwhile, December crude oil rose 63 cents to close at $55.17 a barrel Tuesday on the New York Mercantile Exchange. To date, crude oil futures are 80 percent higher than they were a year ago."

http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/diesel27e_20041027.htm

[pstans]

28. Biodiesel

You can run any Diesel engine on Biodiesel made from used vegetable oil, soybeans, corn, etc. Not sure on the price compared to regular diesel or gas, but the Biodiesel runs very clean.

[Beaverhausen]

21. What are the emissions from diesel as compared to others?

I have a Prius - one of the reasons I wanted one was the very low emissions. I'm curious how diesel rates?

[Dover]

37. Here's the SCOOP ON DIESELS - new content/emissions standards 2006

Beginning in June 2006, the sulfur content of diesel in the U.S. will be greatly reduced. The costs to customers will increase somewhat, but the payoffs are great.
Europe already has newly designed quiet, fuel efficient and clean diesels. It's just a matter of the costs and competitive import hurdles to get them in the U.S. :


ULTRA LOW SULFUR DIESEL


WHAT IS IT?

Ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel is a specially refined diesel fuel that has dramatically lower sulfur content than regular on-highway diesel and can be used in any diesel engine just like regular on-highway diesel fuel.

Today, the sulfur content of ULSD ranges from 15 to 30 parts per million. Regular diesel has a maximum of 500 parts per million of sulfur. Other than the sulfur content, ultra-low sulfur diesel generally meets the same specifications as regular on-highway diesel. Starting in 2006, the majority of highway-grade diesel fuel must be ULSD and have no greater than 15 ppm sulfur level at the pump.

HOW DOES ULTRA LOW SULFUR DIESEL CONTRIBUTE TO THE CLEAN DIESEL PROCESS?

Using ultra-low sulfur diesel will contribute to dramatic reductions in diesel emissions.

The lower sulfur content produces fewer sulfate emissions and most importantly enables use of emission- reduction equipment, like particulate traps and catalytic converters to lower emissions of particles and nitrogen oxides. Use of these systems in combination with ultra-low sulfur diesel can reduce emissions of fine particulates by more than 90 percent and emissions of hydrocarbons to nearly undetectable levels. .

Even without special emission-reduction equipment, use of ultra-low sulfur diesel in diesel engines reduces sulfate pollutants. It also has some benefits by lowering engine maintenance costs.

When widely available, ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel is expected to have virtually the same energy and performance as today's highway diesel.

HOW MUCH MORE WILL ULSD COST?

Cleaner ULSD will cost more than current highway diesel fuel. EPA estimates that it will cost consumers several cents per gallon at the pump, when it is required on a widespread basis (see below). Until then, predicting the actual cost impacts is highly uncertain.

CONVERTING TO, AND THE AVAILABILITY OF, ULTRA LOW SULFUR DIESEL

Converting to ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel is simple. ULSD doesn't require any special storage systems, and is stored in the same kinds of storage tanks and fueling systems of today's diesel fuel.

ULSD is already available in some parts of the country on a limited basis, mostly to fleet purchasers, but at some service stations in California. Many transit and school bus fleets around the country have converted to using cleaner ULSD in their existing operations. For an up to date map showing where ULSD is available go to http://www.epa.gov/otaq/retrofit/fuelsmap.htm.

U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) rules will require that new diesel engines meet lower emission levels beginning in 2007 and will require ultra-low sulfur fuels for all on-road engines beginning in 2006.

http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/ulsd.html

___________________________________________________________


In general, the final rule mandates that refiners and importers of diesel fuel reduce the sulfur content of this fuel to 15 parts per million ("ppm") by June 1, 2006. There are three notable exceptions to this general rule: (1) a provision in the final rule that permits a refiner or importer to produce a maximum of 20 percent of its highway diesel fuel at the current 500 ppm standard between June 1, 2006 and May 31, 2010 (hereinafter referred to as the "phase-in provision"), with the remainder mandated to meet the 15 ppm specification; (2) a provision that provides refiners supplying the "geographic phase-in areas" (i.e., PADD IV) with an additional two years to comply with the gasoline sulfur reduction mandate, provided that all of the refiner's highway diesel fuel output meets the 15 ppm diesel fuel sulfur mandate; and, (3) a small refiner hardship provision, which permits companies that meet the definition of "small refiner" to continue to produce 500 ppm highway diesel fuel until May 31, 2010, provided that the small refiner certifies that ample supplies of 15 ppm highway diesel fuel will be available in its PADD from other suppliers. By May 31, 2010, all highway diesel fuel must meet the 15 ppm sulfur mandate, and all exceptions to the general rule will expire.

As a result of these exceptions to the general 15 ppm sulfur mandate, two different types of highway diesel fuel will be available between mid-2006 and mid-2010. The final rule mandates that 15 ppm diesel fuel and 500 ppm diesel fuel must be segregated throughout the distribution system, including retail diesel fuel outlets.

For diesel fuel marketers, compliance with the final rule is fairly straightforward, at least at first glance. A marketer may choose to sell either 15 ppm diesel fuel or 500 ppm diesel fuel, or both, from its retail outlets. However, as noted above, the two different types of highway diesel fuel may not be commingled. The final rule does not mandate that a marketer sell either or both types of highway diesel fuel -- EPA has left that issue to the marketplace.

There are no diesel fuel testing and sampling mandates imposed on marketers by the final rule. Instead, diesel fuel marketers will be held to a similar standard of liability that exists in other fuels programs -- i.e., maintenance of product transfer documents ("PTDs") from suppliers identifying the product and taking steps to assure that 500 ppm diesel is not sold as 15 ppm diesel at their outlets. The final rule does mandate that labels be affixed to all retail diesel fuel dispensers identifying the type of highway diesel fuel being sold.

In the preamble to the final rule, EPA states that it will consider an additional rulemaking in the coming years to determine whether different sized dispenser nozzles or color-coded dispenser handles or nozzles will be required to assist consumers in distinguishing between the two different types of highway diesel fuel. However, these mandates are not included in the current final rule.

III. Impact of Final Rule on Diesel Marketers
While compliance with the regulatory requirements of the final diesel sulfur rule should not be onerous for diesel fuel marketers, other, non-regulatory impacts of the rule may affect marketers more severely. First, it will be expensive for refiners to upgrade their equipment to make 15 ppm diesel fuel. Faced with this expense, some refiners -- particularly small- and medium-sized refiners -- may choose to reduce their highway diesel fuel production or exit the on-road diesel market entirely. Consequently, the final rule may have the affect of reducing the number of suppliers of diesel fuel across the nation, as well as the amount of highway diesel fuel available.

Second, EPA's decision to grant exceptions to the general 15 ppm mandate will result in two highway diesel fuels being available to marketers between mid-2006 and mid-2010. NACS strongly opposed EPA's exceptions because they will force marketers to either choose one type of highway diesel fuel to carry (thereby limiting the classes of trade that marketers may serve) or install additional tanks and dispensers to carry both types of highway diesel fuel. Whichever option a marketer chooses, it will cost the marketer money, either through lost business or capital investments.

Third, EPA's decision to phase-in the 15 ppm highway sulfur standard will create logistical problems for the diesel fuel distribution system because the two highway diesel fuels must be segregated throughout the system. It remains to be seen whether both fuels will be available in widespread markets, or whether 500 ppm fuel is available only in some areas of the country where the higher sulfur diesel can be transported directly from a refinery to retail outlets by truck.

IV. EPA's Rationale for the Diesel Sulfur Standard
The target of the final rule is emissions of oxides of nitrogen ("NOx") and particulate matter ("PM") from heavy duty vehicles, such as tractor trailers. As part of the final rule, EPA established an emissions standard for heavy duty vehicles (both gasoline- and diesel-powered) that will reduce NOx and PM emissions by 95 percent. EPA accomplishes these reductions by requiring that the engines of Model Year ("MY") 2007 heavy duty vehicles include emissions reduction devices to remove NOx and PM from these vehicles' exhaust.

cont'd

http://www.nacsonline.com/NR/exeres/0000615ekahlbkkqgboantrc/GenUseWithOneCallOut_Resource.asp?NRORIGINALURL=%2fNR%2fexeres%2f2E275E2B-AE24-4CEB-AFC6-1DD2A1E4099C%2ehtm&FRAMELESS=false&NRNODEGUID=%7b2E275E2B-AE24-4CEB-AFC6-1DD2A1E4099C%7d&cookie%5Ftest=1

_________________________________________________________________


EPA SITE:
http://www.epa.gov/OMS/regs/fuels/diesel/diesel.htm

_________________________________________________________________


NON-ROAD Vehicle Schedule:


The schedule:

Nonroad Phase-In - Final Rule Issued June 29, 2004

Key Compliance Dates:

December 31, 2005 – Each terminal company (or other entity) in the diesel fuel distribution system must register each of its terminal facilities with EPA.



June 1, 2007 – All nonroad diesel, including locomotive and marine (LM) diesel, will be required to have no more than 500 ppm sulfur.

June 1, 2010 – The sulfur limit for nonroad diesel (excluding LM diesel) will be reduced to 15 ppm.

August 1, 2010 – At the terminal level, all NRLM diesel must meet the 500 ppm sulfur standard.

June 1, 2012 – The 15 ppm cap for LM diesel will go into effect, except LM fuel (with up to 500 ppm sulfur) produced by certain exempt refiners.

June 1, 2014 – LM fuel produced by refiners under the rule’s “credit and small refiner” provisions will be required to have no more than 15 ppm sulfur.

Summary:

The new rule consists of two parts. It imposes a program of phased-in emission standards for new, nonroad diesel engines, and it requires a two-step reduction in the sulfur content of nonroad, locomotive and marine (NRLM) diesel fuel. The current, unregulated sulfur level of approximately 3,000 ppm will drop to a 500 ppm limit in June 2007. Then, in June 2010, the sulfur cap for nonroad fuel will be reduced further to 15 ppm, and the same 15 ppm cap will apply to locomotive and marine (LM) fuel two years later in June 2012.

The final version of the rule completely changes the mechanism for ensuring that nonroad diesel, when reduced to 500 ppm sulfur in 2007, will not be used to undermine the benefits of the highway diesel program. The new mechanism is the “designate and track” system. This approach requires refiners to designate all batches of 15 ppm and 500 ppm highway and NRLM diesel into one of eight separate categories. These designations will generally follow the fuel throughout the distribution system down to the point when the fuel exits the terminal. However, downstream parties will have limited ability to change designations. For-hire terminals will need to enter into contractual agreements with their customers to ensure that proper controls apply to the designations (and changes in designations) of fuels stored in the leased tanks.

http://www.ilta.org/Rules&Regs/ulsd.htm

[Tyler Durden]

46. Yup. It's a messag all right.

http://www.dontcrush.com/images/EVWorld_10May05.pdf

Why else would a car company WITHDRAW a FUNCTIONAL ELECTRIC VEHICLE to tout their "NEW, IMPROVED HYBRID!!!" but to whoop up a BRAND NEW MARKET for their BRAND NEW PRODUCT!!!

Yeah. Toyota is greening up with hybrids. What BULLSHIT.

[kestrel91316]

48. So where are these electric vehicles commercially available for sale???

[Jack from Charlotte]

47. Questions for Hybrid supporters.....

#1 Has anyone done a cost/benefit comparison vs other cars when the price of battery change is factored in? From what little I've read hybreds do well vs like sized gas cars but they don't consider the battery exchange required after 70,000 or 80,000 miles.

#2 I read a thing about the disposal of the batteries when the change takes place. Said there will be a huge enviromental problem disposing of them So car makers are sending the old batteries to countries for disposal that have weak enviromental laws.

I greatly hope the cars work but wonder if all factors are being considered.

[AndyTiedye]

53. Long Warranty, and Recycling

If It Needs a new battery at 80,000 Mi, that's in-warranty
(10 years/150K in California, 8 years/100K in other states).

NiMH batteries are among the most environmentally-friendly.
No cadmium like NiCd's no lead like in lead-acid batteries.

They should be recycled anyway, of course.

[nashville_brook]

57. we've never kept a car that long. i'm sure we'll trade it before then to

something with even better mileage.

[E-Z-B]

2. GM and Ford's response:

Build bigger SUVs! America wants them!

[TwilightZone]

4. Ford already builds a hybrid SUV - the Escape...

that gets an EPA estimated 36mpg in city driving.

I'd say they deserve a little credit for that. 36mpg is higher than most cars, much less SUVs.

[craychek]

5. Many get better mileage

I believe the best top out at 60 city and 40 hwy

[phantom power]

7. True, but are they planning to ramp up production?

Toyota is ramping up it's hybrid production at an amazing pace. To my knowledge, Ford is still manufacturing their hybrids in small numbers.

And GM still has it's hands over it's ears, going "lalalalala! hybrids are a fad! lalalala! I can't hear you!"

[City Lights]

11. Good question.

We tried to by an Escape last Spring and came up empty, so we bought an Accord.

[AndyTiedye]

32. I Bought an Escape Hybrid Last November. No Waiting List

If you had trouble getting one in the Spring, you got caught in the
changeover from 2005 to 2006.

BTW, Ford does not buy it's hybrid tech from Toyota, they developed
it independently, but it was enough like Toyota's that they did a
license swap.

Ford, Toyota, and every other hybrid manufacturer buys their BATTERIES from Sanyo.
The limiting factor on all hybrid production is batteries, and Toyota
seems to have contracted for most of their production.

The Escape and Mariner Hybrids are the only hybrid automobiles made in the USA. (The Mariner is an Escape in different trim).

Ford needs to advertise them a bit more. Most people don't know about them.
The Prius sells itself, but it has been in production for several years.
How many Priuses did Toyota sell the first year?

I am very happy with my Escape. It's bigger and more comfortable
than my old RAV4, but it gets considerably better mileage.

[City Lights]

33. Definitely caught in the change-over between years.

Unfortunately, Ford (mis)underestimated the demand for the hybrid Escape. I think they were sold out long before we tried to buy one. :-(

[Jack from Charlotte]

49. When do the batteries require changing?

How many miles or time does the schdule call for? And how much will it cost to change them?

[AndyTiedye]

52. Hybrid Batteries Are Guraranteed for At Least 8 Yrs/100K

That's 10 years, 150K in

I Have a

I expect that my first replacement will be on Ford's dime.

They say a couple of thousand if you have to do it yourself.

After 10 years, I expect that the battery prices will have come down a bit,
and anyway, they'll have better gas-sippers (or diesel-sippers or all-electric vehicles) by then.

[MadisonProgressive]

55. I just bought a 2005 prius

the batteries have a 10/100,000 warranty.

[krkaufman]

24. Yep, GM has just upped their advertising/marketing/rebate budgets.

Amazingingly blind. I suspect they'll be looking for gov't handouts in a year or so, to avert bankruptcy.

[still_one]

9. Actually the hybrid components are made by Toyota on the escape

that is not to take anything away from Ford, at least they saw the wisdom of oeming a company who has already got the technology working

[bpilgrim]

10. Toyota/Ford Hybrid Technology Agreement

http://4wheeldrive.about.com/b/a/072284.htm

Tuesday, April 26, 2005

Toyota may hike prices to ease GM pain

Japanese automaker suggests it wants to avoid backlash from U.S. consumers.
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0504/28/C01-162413.htm

and japan is doing all they can to not only show us the 'way'

hopefully GM/FORD can capitalize ;->

peace

[krkaufman]

22. Yes, all 2000 of them annually

Ford'd hybrid effort is minimal (2000 per year, IIRC), and is based on Toyota's technology.

Kudos to Ford for doing a hybrid, but the half-effort makes me wonder whether it isn't just a marketing ploy, trying to convince current SUV owners that a fuel-efficient SUV is coming down the road.

Where's the Focus hybrid?

[TahitiNut]

13. When you look around the Detroit area ...

... you can see how GM and Ford executives might get that impression.

It's really unfreakingreal. After 20 years on the Left Coast, I return to the Detroit area and am totally appalled at the road warrior behemoths crowding and destroying the pavement. During rush hours, I survey the vehicles and see more than 2/3rds are SUVs containing a single individual. There are times on Woodward Avenue (multiple-lane boulevard) when the visibility from my compact is limited to about 12' in every direction - blocked by hulking SUVs, minivans, and pickup trucks surrounding me. Even worse, about 20-25% of these gas-guzzling road warriors are chatting on their cellulars.

[krkaufman]

19. They just loved the huge profits...

... from building the high mark-up trucks and SUVs, especially higher-end SUVs.

They deserve the corporate death penalty... bankruptcy.

[tabasco]

6. The Japanese companies are helping us conserve gas ...

more than American companies ever did. American car companies are an excellent demonstration of the failure of shortsighted capitalism. American car companies have also shown how corporations do not act in the best interest of their host nation. When we needed to be less dependent on foreign oil, US companies kept on cranking out gas guzzlers and even less efficient vehicles. Now we are more dependent on foreign oil, thanks to the greed of corporations and the corruption of the republican party.

[MercutioATC]

8. Well, since they OWN more than half of the country now, i'd say

it's in their best interest, wouldn't you?

[nashville_brook]

14. we traded our bmw for a honda civic and are simply giddy

48 mpg city. new! qualifies for the tax deduction.



it inspired this rant:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x144542

we were SLAVES in BUSH's OIL WAR

[bpilgrim]

17. nice!

i just got a used VW tdi and it get's around 50mpg HW :wow:

and i'm converting it to a grease car which will then get around 2,000 MPG ;->

http://greasecar.com

psst... pass the word :hi:

peace

[nashville_brook]

23. i *wanted* an Insight real bad.. 60+mpg - there's some used out there

but this was just too easy. we got money off, didn't have to pay tax (b/c we're trading down), and get the federal tax break.

dealers were telling us they can't keep hybrids -- any hybrids on the lot. they are sold before they get there.

and yet they still don't get it. there's a weird cognitive dissonence where the salesperson is miffed you want something they don't have -- but then they throw something in like, "you know, we don't get many of those here. people in places like california tend to like that more." the guy at carmax went on a whole spiel about how they are "certified" to sell "hy-birds." i already knew they had a prius from the website and was interested in buying an Insight remotely. but i let him go on and walked outside, walked right up to the prius and asked to drive it. it was a cool car. it had a touch screen nav and audio panel. he didn't realize it was a hy-bird until we were out on the road.

[Ian David]

43. I love my Prius

[nashville_brook]

56. heck yeah!

[pstans]

30. New Tax Deduction?

I am looking at buying a Hybrid and read that the $2000 tax deduction was being lowered to $500 after this year. How did you tax deduction work, if you don't mind me asking? Is there a new one out?

[nashville_brook]

34. here's the lowdown according to the honda website

which makes it sound like you 2000

How to Claim a Clean-Fuel Vehicle Federal Tax Deduction*

If you purchased your new Honda Civic Hybrid or Insight vehicle in 2004—or an Accord Hybrid, Civic Hybrid or Insight in 2005—you may qualify for a one-time $2,000 clean-fuel vehicle federal tax deduction.

For detailed information, please review the following IRS guidance and consult your tax advisor:

1. Press Releases
If you purchased your Civic Hybrid or Insight vehicle in 2004, please visit the following: 2004 IRS press release and the 2004 Honda press release.

(and you go here and you get this)

More Honda Vehicles Certified for Clean-Fuel Vehicle Deduction
IR-2004-16, Jan. 29, 2004
WASHINGTON — The Internal Revenue Service has certified the Honda Insight, Model
Years 2003 and 2004, and the Honda Civic Hybrid, Model Year 2004, as being eligible
for the clean-fuel vehicle deduction.
<blah, blah blah>
Under current law, the clean-fuel vehicle deduction will be reduced incrementally until it
expires beginning in 2007. Purchasers of IRS-certified cars will be able to claim a
deduction of $2,000 if the vehicle was placed in service on or before Dec. 31, 2003.The
$2,000 maximum deduction will be reduced by 25 percent for vehicles placed into
service in 2004, by 50 percent in 2005 and by 75 percent in 2006. No deduction will be
allowed for vehicles placed in service after Dec. 31, 2006.

then you go to the IRS website and there's this:

Note: The clean-fuel vehicle tax deduction and electric vehicle credit were originally scheduled to phase out starting in 2004. However, the "Working Families Tax Relief Act of 2004" has extended the maximum incentive amount through 2005.

and this:

Other Incentives
Some state and local governments also provide incentives for alternative fuel vehicles, so you may want to check with your state or local government. The U.S. Department of Energy's Clean Cities Vehicle Buyer's Guide for Consumers may also have useful information on state/local incentives.

and this:

Qualifying electric vehicles and clean-fuel vehicles (including gasoline/electric hybrids) purchased new are eligible for federal income tax incentives.

Clean-fuel vehicles: One-time tax deduction up to $2,000
Electric vehicles: One-time tax credit up to $4,000 per vehicle
The maximum incentive will be reduced to $500 in 2006 and will expire at the end of the year.

Note: The clean-fuel vehicle tax deduction and electric vehicle credit were originally scheduled to phase out starting in 2004. However, the "Working Families Tax Relief Act of 2004" has extended the maximum incentive amount through 2005.

and this:
Other Incentives
Some state and local governments also provide incentives for alternative fuel vehicles, so you may want to check with your state or local government.

and most weirdly
How do I claim the deduction?
Whether you itemize or take the standard deduction, you can still claim the clean-fuel tax deduction. Unless the vehicle is purchased solely for business use, simply include the deduction on your 2004 1040 tax form in the "Tax, Credits, and Payments" section. Enter the amount of the deduction and the words "Clean Fuel" on the line next to line 35 and include the deduction in the total.


who'd thought you could do that? just write it in!

[bpilgrim]

15. necessity is the mother of invention

them




us

peace

[krkaufman]

26. Wholly agree... except that the Democratic Party...

... can also accept some responsibility. How much did the CAFE standards rise under Clinton? How did the Michigan (Democratic) Senators vote on CAFE?

[nashville_brook]

31. this is where the DEMS have totally let us down -- there should be HUGE

TAX credits for biz to provide telecommuting.

there should be money for a coast to coast rail -- transforming the century-old system into a symbol of independence. oil independence. freedom.

the technology exists to use what's there in a differently-powered configuration. this is just engineering.

there should major money for sidewalks -- bike paths. credit on your insurance bill for riding a bike to work. incentives for scooters.

new housing developments should have to PLAN for walking distance primary services such as pharmacy, grocery, school.

the tax credit for the hummer should be eliminated.
the tax credit for a hybrid should be increased to at least twice as much.

i could go on and on and on...

[pstans]

16. The article was good until I read "by the end of the decade"

Hybrid sales better be 25% by the end of the decade. I would say they should be closer to 75%. Toyota should have 25% of their sales NOW from hybrids, so should Honda, and any other Automaker worth a dime.

[Strelnikov_]

25. The Denial And Lack Of Planning Is Amazing

By the end of the decade, I doubt they will be able to sell any vehicle for personal transportation that gets less than 50 mpg.

I am holding out for the pluggable Prius. Until that time, will hold on to the VW TDI.

[pstans]

29. VW TDI.

I want one of those. There isn't a biodiesel fill up in my town, but there are one in each direction out of town no more than 30 miles away.

[Gabi Hayes]

59. I just got one

?v=0

check the license plate

?v=0

alternate

?v=0

[LynneSin]

18. And GM wonders why their stock is now classified junk

Just like back in the 80's, Toyota and other Japanese car manufacturers will sweep the nation while US companies fall behind

[KeepItReal]

27. Even when I worked for a GM sub, I could not find a car I liked from them

When I worked for a GM subsidiary, we got the GM employee discount way back when...

I searched through their lineup of vehicles, there was not one car (not big on trucks back then) they made that this, then twenty-something, car enthusiast would even consider. And no, I'm not a 'Vette, Camaro/Trans Am guy.

The only thing GM seems to do well is Cadillac and SUV's. I thought they would score with Saturn, but their corporate greed would not let that division stay independent and innovative.

Check this out: "After all, the failure to exploit Saturn's initial success has to go down in history as General Motors' biggest failure in the years since the management upheaval in 1992.

Saturn's approach to marketing and selling cars had been an immediate success with both GM's critics and the buying public. Indeed, Saturn dealerships are still widely regarded as models for other carmakers to emulate.

But as Malcolm Bricklin noted last week during a meeting of the Society Automotive Analysts in Southfield, GM failed to reinforce Saturn's success with new and better products."

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/stories/032005/bus_20050320009.shtml

[HuckleB]

35. Well, that's promising.

Though I'd hoped it would be a bigger percentage by then.

[nashville_brook]

36. i'd like to know what honda's numbers are

i'd love a hybrid Element sometime in the future. that would be a kick-ass hybrid.

[Moderator]

38. kick

[Moderator]

39. Kick

[DeepModem Mom]

40. NYT: Toyota Develops Hybrids With an Eye on the Future

Toyota Develops Hybrids With an Eye on the Future
By DANNY HAKIM
Published: August 4, 2005


TRAVERSE CITY, Mich., Aug. 3 - Toyota is developing 10 hybrid electric models for sale worldwide by early in the next decade, the company's top North American executive said on Wednesday.

The company expects that a quarter of its sales in the United States will use the technology by then as it tries to sell one million hybrid vehicles a year worldwide. That would put it far ahead of projections for hybrid sales across the industry.

"At our current rate of sales, that's about 600,000 hybrids in the U.S.," said Jim Press, president and chief operating officer of Toyota Motor Sales USA, in comments at a conference in northern Michigan. "To achieve that goal, we will have to look at offering hybrid power systems in virtually all of our vehicles, including trucks."

Mr. Press dismissed concerns by some consumers and reviewers that Toyota and Honda were using the technology to increase horsepower in newer hybrid models, eroding fuel economy benefits. And he said that the proliferation of technology in modern cars had led to what he called an epidemic of recalls....

***

The hybrid push is a goal of Toyota's strategy as it looks to increase its share of the world's auto market to 15 percent, which would probably vault it past General Motors as the world's largest automaker. Mr. Press and other Toyota executives have said that the volatility of gas prices, political instability and environmental issues make the development of the technology a priority....


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/04/automobiles/04auto.ready.html

[Tyler Durden]

41. WHAT UTTER BULLSHIT.

The PIGS at some car company are poised to GREEN IT UP, right? These PIGS have got functional ELECTRIC vehicles already that they can't WAIT to get off the market and TRASH so they can create a market for their hybrids.

http://www.dontcrush.com/images/EVWorld_10May05.pdf

Honda, Ford, and GM are all doing the same damned thing.

Why else would a car company WITHDRAW a FUNCTIONAL ELECTRIC VEHICLE to tout their "NEW, IMPROVED HYBRID!!!"

Yeah. Toyota is greening up with hybrids. What BULLSHIT.

[Massacure]

50. Electric Vehicles aren't that great anyways.

The mileage on them sucks unless you use lithium batteries, and lithium is a element that is rare on Earth. I would take a hybrid any day. A hybrid run on bio-diesel based off of algae is the way to go.

Besides, electricity is powered by coal. So instead of giving off air emissions, you give of air emissions plus lead, mercury, arsenic, etc...

[Miss Chybil]

61. Why wouldn't they just sell the electric vehicles? Money is money.

I'm sure if anything is profitable, they will sell it. I don't get the motivation behind trashing something to promote something else.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

42. I get my Hybrid in about 2 weeks!

It's Lexus, not Toyota, but it's the Toyota technology.

Can't wait!

[Ian David]

44. Lexus Hybrid?

Cool!
http://www.lexus.com/models/hybrid/

[RevolutionStartsNow]

54. Yep, RX400h

It's verrrrry cool.

[Tyler Durden]

45. I wish I could be happy for you...

...but I watched them send the tools we used to make instrument panels for the GM EV-1 to the recylers this week.

It was a well-built, functional, all electric vehicle, now extinct and scrapped. Toyota is doing the same with their electric RAV4's, so it's very hard for me to be real happy about Toyota and their New Marketing Strategy.

http://www.dontcrush.com/images/EVWorld_10May05.pdf

[currents]

51. Plug in Vehicles are simply a bad idea

Sure they have a niche market for things like small scooters and golf carts, but for regular cars, the idea is bogus.

How long does it take to fill up a plug in vehicle? 5-7 hours?
What is the range on a plug in vehicle? 150 miles?

This means that it would take 4 days to drive from San Diego to San Fransisco in a plug in vehicle.

90% of people don't have enough money to buy 2 cars per person. You can't just buy a car that is only good for your daily commute. Well, very few can justify it. Also, if you live in an apartment, sorry, you can't have an electric vehicle.

Anyway, the day that they come out with a battery that can be recharged in 5 minutes, and has a 300 mile range with good power, then they will be good enough.

[nashville_brook]

58. yay! good for you! that's a sweet ride.

[goforit]

60. Whoo hooo!!!! (need I say more)