Army 'link' in Tube shooting

[bemildred]

A NEWLY-established British army anti-terror special forces unit was involved in the operation in which an innocent Brazilian man was shot dead in London last month, a report said today.

Members of the Special Reconnaissance Regiment, which was set up in April, were involved in the surveillance operation which culminated in the death of Jean Charles de Menezes, The Guardian newspaper reported.

Unnamed official sources were cited by the paper as saying the army unit, modelled on undercover units that worked to combat terrorism in Northern Ireland, had taken part in "low-level intelligence behind the scenes" when de Menezes was shot.

---

It was believed to be the first time that the unit, which is trained by the British army's elite SAS special forces section, had been used in a live operation, the newspaper added.

Daily telegraph(OZ)

[jody]

1. So the Brits have their own death squad? n/t

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maple]

2. Lucky Menezes

he got the trial version.

[wli]

4. brilliant, Blair's got his own death squads

I wonder where Dubya's are.

[Karenina]

5. So now it's open season

on brown people, eh?

[Solly Mack]

6. :::::shakes head:::::

[Taxloss]

7. Did any of you actually bother to read the article?

'However, there was "no direct military involvement in the shooting", the source added.'

Jean Charles was not killed by the army, still less by a "death squad". The army aided intelligence. That is all.

[Frederik]

8. Maybe, or maybe not

Could this ‘police officer’ be a soldier?
Michael Smith
(Sunday Times)

BRITISH special forces soldiers took part in the operation that led to the shoot-to-kill death of an innocent Brazilian electrician with no connection to the London bombings, defence sources said last week.

Jean Charles de Menezes was tailed by a surveillance team on July 22 as he caught a bus to Stockwell Underground station in south London. He was shot eight times when he fled from his pursuers at the Tube station.

The Ministry of Defence admitted last week that the army provided “technical assistance” to the surveillance operation but insisted the soldiers concerned were “not directly involved” in the shooting.

Press photographs of members of the armed response team taken in the immediate aftermath of the killing show at least one man carrying a special forces weapon that is not issued to SO19, the Metropolitan police firearms unit.

The man, wearing civilian clothes with a blue cap marked “Police”, was carrying a specially modified Heckler & Koch G3K rifle with a shortened barrel and a butt from a PSG-1 sniper rifle fitted to it — a combination used by the SAS.

Another man, dressed in a T-shirt, jeans and trainers, was carrying a Heckler & Koch G36C. Although this weapon is used on occasion by SO19 it appears to be fitted with a target illuminator purchased as an “urgent operational requirement” for UK special forces involved in the war on terror.

[Taxloss]

9. Do you have a link?

I'd like to read the whole article.

[Frederik]

12. Here you go

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1715192,00.html

Here's another interesting article. The killing of de Menezes seems increasingly inexplicable:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1715340,00.html

The Independent Police Complaints Commission is studying CCTV footage that caught de Menezes’s last moments. What is already clear is that the initial accounts of his death on July 22 were wrong.

When the shooting at Stockwell Underground station was first confirmed, a senior police source told reporters, off the record, that they had killed one of the would-be suicide bombers who was on the run after the failed July 21 bombings. Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan police commissioner, said that the shooting was “directly linked” to the terrorist operation.

The man, according to the police, was suspect because of his “clothing and behaviour”. He had been followed from a house that had been under surveillance. When he was challenged at Stockwell, he ignored instructions and ran. He had vaulted over the ticket barrier and was wearing a dark bulky jacket that could disguise a bomb.

One witness had de Menezes as an Asian with a beard and wires coming out of his torso. The truth is more mundane. De Menezes, an electrician, was travelling to north London to fix a fire alarm.

He was not wearing what witnesses called a “black bomber jacket”, but a denim jacket. It was about 17C and his clothing would not have been out of the ordinary.

He did not vault a ticket barrier, as claimed. He used a travelcard to pass through the station in the normal way. His family believes that he may have started to run simply because he heard the train pulling in — something Londoners do every day. Indeed, a train was at the platform when he got there.

Police clearly believed that de Menezes might have been a suicide bomber, even though he was not carrying a rucksack. This raises a key question: why was de Menezes allowed to board a bus in Tulse Hill and travel to Stockwell, if officers thought that his body might be rigged with explosives? It also raises questions about the new shoot-to-kill protocol. The protocol — which is specific to individual targets — can be put into force only when police have reason to believe that a suspect may be carrying a bomb. The order can be issued only by a “gold commander” at Scotland Yard.

The order, once given, clears officers to shoot the suspect in the head if they believe that he is about to activate the bomb. The idea is to give the individual no time to react. Police do not have to shout a warning before they act: to do so would negate the effect of the head shot.

Some witnesses say that de Menezes was given no chance to give himself up. They say that once on the train he was pinned to the ground and shot.

Lee Ruston, 32, was at the bottom of the escalator that de Menezes ran down. He believes that he heard every word said by officers.

According to him, officers did not say the word “police” or offer de Menezes the prospect of arrest. “I heard a voice shouting ‘get on the floor, just get on the floor’. Another voice said the same, ‘get on the floor’. I then heard the crack of gunshots,” he said.

I would say "death squad" is a fairly accurate description of what this unit - whichever it is - is doing.

[Taxloss]

15. Inexplicable is right.

We will know the truth soon enough. It is clear that the Police systematically lied to us - simple "fog of war" panic, or panicky cover-up, I don't know. But the fact their story collapsed so quickly shows it wasn't planned in advance, nor was it carefully thought it. The very number of shots screams "overkill" - I still tend to think this is a rogue officer or unit. I don't feel the term "death squad" is fair in the least.

[Frederik]

16. Not planned in advance

Yes, I agree on that. A "senior police source" initially claimed that de Menezes was one of the July 21 would-be bombers. Ian Blair said he was connected to the incident. You have to wonder why they would say something stupid like that, when they would obviously have to recant later. One possible explanation would be that they didn't realize at first what nationality he was, and exptected him to be an "Ahmed". But you would think that he was carrying some kind of identification, if he was on his way to a job.

Then the embellished account which had him jumping the turnstile and wearing a thick coat and not stopping when he was told to and so on.

It does seem like a rather panicky cover-up. But why do I get the feeling that had he happened to be Moroccon or Pakistani, we would be hearing about his "mysterious" visits to his home country, where he might have crossed paths with "suspected al-Qaida members", his "possible" connections to the bombers, the "test run" he might have been conducting when he was shot etc.

[Taxloss]

21. Well, that's a "possible" explanation, but

you're embarking on deep speculation. For a start, London and Londoners are familiar with Islam, and immigration. Visits home are no problem. If you look back at the Ricin scare, you see these stories collapse very quickly - and this involved the killing of an man, not an arrest. Our democratic structures expose these lies - which are based in incompetence and panic, not malice - very quickly.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

23. Seven shots to the head smacks of more than a little "malice", IMHO.

[Taxloss]

24. Yes, it seems like a grotesque over-reaction.

I said the attempted cover-up was not based in malice, not the killing. We still do not know what happened. But the fact that the attempted cover-up was so lousy indicates it was hardly a sophisticated conspiracy.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

20. "Rogue officer or unit"?? Right. Have another gulp of Kool-Aid.

[Taxloss]

25. Do you have anything useful to add?

[ElectroPrincess]

10. Once you move into S.W.A.T. type squads, etc. the ...

distinction becomes murky at best.

[Taxloss]

13. True, a man with a gun is a man with a gun.

But we have our own version of Posse Comitatus called the Restoration Settlement, and a variety of safeguards that mean the army's role in public life is limited. It's important to remember that Britain experienced a military dictatorship for a time in the 17th century, and the effect was so traumatic and injurious that it permeated our constitution. (We came close to military dictatorship in the early 1800s as well, under Wellington; the Civil War principle held firm and it was stopped, to the extent that parliamentary business continued even during the Second World War.)

[Media_Lies_Daily]

18. Right. Sounds like you're drinking the Brit version of "Kool-Aid".

[Taxloss]

26. Would you like to discuss this?

[Englander]

11. The article in the Guardian;

" New special forces unit tailed Brazilian

Richard Norton-Taylor
Thursday August 4, 2005
The Guardian

A new army special forces regiment was involved in the operation that led to the killing of an innocent man at Stockwell tube station in south London last week, the Guardian can reveal.

The Special Reconnaissance Regiment, set up in April to help combat international terrorism, was deployed in the surveillance operation which led to the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes, a Brazilian electrician, on July 22, according to Whitehall sources."

More at;
Guardian Unlimited


The important words in the article are 'surveillance' &
'Reconnaissance'.

[Frederik]

14. No, the important words in the article are...

"According to the Ministry of Defence, ..."

Michael Smith speculates: Could this ‘police officer’ be a soldier?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1715192,00.html

[Karenina]

17. :SIGH:

:kick:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

22. Bingo.

[rocktivity]

19. "Low-level intelligence"

At least they're being honest about THAT.

:shrug:
rocknation

[Karenina]

27. Anglos "profiling" anyone but their "own"

have an OUTSTANDINGLY LOW accuracy rate...