(Bill) Clinton rips Georgia's voter ID bill

[sabra]

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http://www.oxfordpress.com/business/content/shared/news/nation/stories/08/04NABJ_CLINTON.html

Clinton rips Georgia's voter ID bill

ATLANTA — With his recent heart surgery as a reference point, former President Bill Clinton spent most of a session with black journalists Wednesday talking about health care issues. But first, he had some choice words about Georgia's new voter ID bill.

"All over America there are efforts to restrict access to the vote under the guise of preventing voter fraud. And I say guise — look at this Georgia bill, all the ID you've got to produce to register to vote," Clinton said at the opening session of the National Association of Black Journalists convention at the downtown Hyatt Regency hotel.

Clinton also called on Congress and the Bush administration to support continuation of those portions of the Voting Rights Act that will otherwise expire in 2007, and said he thought voting rights should be extended to those who have been convicted of a crime and served their sentence.

Clinton also dealt with a question about the presidential ambitions of his wife, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.). She would be "the best there ever was" if she became president, but he didn't know if his wife will run, Clinton said.

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[shoelace414]

1. Is Voter ID the new Poll Tax?

[freedomfries]

3. KICK

[Benhurst]

2. As long as Georgia has 100% computer voting with no paper trail,

it really doesn't matter.

[bushisanidiot]

4. Exactly. All future elections have already been programmed in.

It really doesn't matter who shows up to vote in GA.

[one_true_leroy]

22. dunno...

look at cynthia mckinney... she came roarin' back to be the thorn in the side that makes me so proud. they can't rig them all.

[bearfan454]

8. Not only Georgia Benhurst

Every state that has repuke controlled electronic vote stealing doesn't matter. It's a disgrace that we can't get that stopped.

[ZR2]

14. Why can't people understand

A paper trail does NO FUCKING GOOD.

[CottonBear]

19. Only paper ballots and hand counts will do. (Canada & UK use them.) n/t

[Mithras61]

20. You're absolutely right...

a paper trail is useless. I want paper ballots (but I don't care if they're created by an electronic voting machine or if they're pre-printed and marked with a pencil or whatever). I like electronic voting with paper ballots printed out for voter confirmation. You can have a quick preliminary tally to be confirmed by other counting methods (and I still like the French method the best for that - public counting by all concerned parties at the precinct).

[bushisanidiot]

34. So how would you suggest solving the repuke vote rigging problem?

i don't see how you can do it without some kind of paper trail..

[ZR2]

49. The same way I recommend do it to eliminate the democrat vote rigging

problem. And before you say anything, we all know both sides are just as guilty at doing it.

My solution is electronic voting with a paper receipt. Now, the receipt has to be a two part carbon type. The original goes into a bin on the machine, the copy goes to the voter. Now the voter can be sure the machine has at least made a paper copy of their vote....

The machine tallies are then compared to the paper tallies to be sure they are the same. This can be done as a spot check of 20% of the machines in a precienct. If discrepencies are found, then a paper count is done on all machines in that precienct with the paper count being the one used.

This still leaves one problem, that of the person that purposely goes into disrupt the election by purposly voting wrong and then claiming the machine changed their vote. This is prvented by using video cameras that will record each vote cast and can be reviewed by the voter and precienct chief in case of a discrepency. If the voter cast a wrong vote, too bad.

[MGKrebs]

36. Whatever.

[Mr.Green93]

5. Why are we against showing

a picture ID to vote?

[wakeme2008]

6. Right this helps us

to stop one Repug voter from voting multiple times..

I have had to show my Florida Drivers lic. (photo id) to vote in Florida for many many years.

[ahem]

45. But in FL the photo ID options are much greater than the Georgia bill

allows. In Florida we can use virtually any card with a photo and a signature. Here's the list:

*Florida driver's license
*Florida ID card issued by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles
*US passport
*Employee badge or ID
*Buyer's club ID
*Debit or credit card
*Military ID
*Student ID
*Retirement center ID
*neighborhood association ID
*Entertainment ID
*Public assistance ID

You can use your Disney season pass or your warehouse club card -- whatever you happen to have on you. I'm not wild about the photo ID requirement in Florida, but at least we're given plenty of choices.

The Georgia bill requires a state or federally issued ID -- no other options. If you don't have one on you, then too bad.

This republican sponsored bill is allegedly about cutting down on voter fraud, but they didn't even establish that any fraud had taken place relating to old system of ID (where birth certificates and social security cards were accepted.)

Too many people are turned away at the polls already. We shouldn't make up reasons to turn away more.

[ima_sinnic]

7. I agree. A lot of hooha over nothing, IMHO

... the thinking is that many elderly and poor don't have drivers licenses. There is however such a thing as a state ID card, which anybody who wants to cash a check or do anything at all "official" would have to show if they have absolutely no other photo ID, including a passport. I can't imagine an American citizen no matter their age or income not having to show a photo ID at SOME time in life. Just to rent movies at Blockbuster you have to show a photo ID. The one exception might be homeless people. But even they must apply for food stamps or other assistance--a photo ID is not required for that? What about entrance into homeless shelters? no ID is asked for?

[The Straight Story]

52. I wonder if the Amish use photo ids?

Anyone have any insight into that?

[CottonBear]

9. Because we used to be able to show many IDs or utility bills w/ our names

and now it's down to drivers licenses and public school and public college/university student ID cards. So, for example, a student from GA Tech can use their student ID but a student from Spelman (black)or Morehouse (black) cannot. Plus, think about all of the folks without drivers licenses OR student IDs.

I hate Sonny Perdue and the Republican government here in GA. They have managed to turn back the clock decades. :cry: :cry: :cry:

[ima_sinnic]

10. no, it says "government-issued" ID cards

this is NOT a big deal IMO. Everybody has to show a photo ID for one reason or other at some time in his/her life. Even students from Spelman or Morehouse, even if they just want to rent a DVD from Blockbuster. There are state-issued ID cards that look like drivers licenses but are for people without DLs.

[sandnsea]

13. That's what it 'says'

The point is, how will it be implemented? They allow a GA Tech ID in one area, deny all minority college ID's in another? Make it easy for white people to get the state ID, come up with excuses for blacks? It's just another hurdle, the people on the margins are the ones who don't have government issued ID's. They're not going to get one just to vote.

[CottonBear]

17. Not everyone can get to the DMV. They've closed many posts

like the one in the Kroger on West Broad Street in Athens (near lots of poor black and hispanic people and students). The Kroger was accessible by car, bus, bike and foot. The Athens area (about a 10 county area) DMV is way out on the edge of the county in a rural area on a 4-lane divided highway. Very difficult for the poor, carless and inner-city minorities to reach.

Georgia has a terrible history of voter fraud and I just see this as going backward. Heck, four black people were lynched at the Moores Ford Bridge in the mid 1940s just 15 minutes from where I am now.

[kevinam]

51. at some time in his/her life...

I would assume it has to be a valid ID. That excludes at some point in their life. Older people that don't drive, have friends/family take care of things for them. Lower income people can be paid by cash. I don't have to list reason after reason why people don't have state/federal issued ID. The question is, why are they trying to make voting more restrictive or more difficult. Without any reported incidents (that I have found) of voter fraud in GA, why did they waste tax payer money on something like this. It fixed something that wasn't broke. I don't know every GA citizens' lifestyle, so I can't justify why someone doesn't have state issued photo ID.


Kevin.

[BootinUp]

12. Theres also a Georgia law

against walking the street without an official state picture ID. At least thats what I remember.

[wrlwnd]

54. So there aren't white private schools in GA?

:shrug:

[wxhoosier]

15. This is a bigger issue than you think

Please read Cynthia Tucker's article in the AJC (registration
required, try bugmenot.com).

http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/tucker/index.html

She states:

But it will affect black voters like Harden disproportionately. Cox's office estimates that white Georgians are five times more likely to have a car or truck than black Georgians. According to Kilpatrick Stockton attorney Seth Cohen, about 4 percent of white adults in Georgia lack a driver's license, but more than four times as many black adults — about 18 percent — lack one.

[CottonBear]

21. Thank you for the link to Tucker's article & welcome to DU!

:hi: I don't understand why some people think the GA Voter ID law is OK. They must have never lived in the deep South. :(

[AirAmFan]

39. Can you think of a better way to ensure suburban Rethuglican control

of politics than to require picture IDs, which in the vast majority of cases means drivers licenses? Suburban Republican homeowners MUST drive every day, and therefore MUST have up-to-date drivers licenses with them at all times. Poor people and city dwellers are less likely to drive frequently, less likely have drivers licenses, less likely to keep them up-to-date, and less likely to always carry them. Since poorer people and renters move much more often than richer people and homeowners, addresses on their drivers licenses are less likely to match addresses on their voter registration cards.

Besides, why have voter registration if being properly registered and having a signature that matches what's on the books is not going to be enough to allow people to vote? Voter registration, ID requirements, and other barriers to voting are just irrelevant red tape that allow discrimination against minority and probable Democratic voters through arbitrary deadlines and selective enforcement. More racially homogeneous states, such as North Dakota and Minnesota, do not even require advance registration to vote: just "come on down" on Election Day. See Alexander Keyssar's definitive histiory of voting in America, "The Right to Vote">

[MGKrebs]

40. No one can remember any case in Georgia where someone

showed up to a precinct and pretended to be someone else in order to vote.

Just think about this: They have a list. You sign a form saying who you are- and it is a felony to lie on this form- and they check to see if you are on the list. What difference does it make whether you have a photo ID or not? The poll worker is potentially going to deny your vote because you don't look enough like the picture? Besides, it's just as easy to get a fake ID as a real one, and just about as cheap to. Anyway, if you were not on the list, you still got to cast a provisional ballot, and the election board could verify your eligibility before counting that vote. My reading of the new bill is that now there is NO provisional ballot for lack of proper ID (although supporters of the bill say otherwise). If the name was already checked on the list, I would imagine you would be in trouble, but again, that hasn't happened in living memory. Who is going to risk going to the poll, pretending to be some other eligible voter- probably not knowing whether that voter has voted yet or not- just to cast a ballot? And they would also risk being recognized if they were doing it in the same precinct in which they would cast their legitimate ballot. Or they're going to travel to some other precinct to cast an illegal ballot? It just strains credulity.

It just makes no difference whether or not you have a picture ID. It's eyewash. If I got denied a ballot because I got cancer and lost my hair, I would be PISSED. Just because some of you may be showing your picture ID's now doesn't mean it MEANS anything. I show mine too, but we don't have to. The idea is to let as many eligible voters participate as possible, not likely disallow eligible voters because we have cast too wide a net trying to catch imaginary imposters.

And if anybody thinks this is about preventing fraud, then why did they make it easier to cast an absentee ballot, for which there have been numerous cases of fraud and mishandling?

edit: I checked the bill again, and we would be able to cast a provisional ballot if we don't come up with the proper ID. That provisional ballot would not be counted unless the election board can verify eligibility within 48 hours. (Perhaps I remembered an earlier version of the bill. My apologies.)

[MGKrebs]

48. I heard Howard Dean say the other day

that the mother of Atlanta Mayor Shirley Franklin will not be able to vote this fall. She recently moved here to be near her daughter, but does not have her birth certificate or enough other documentation, and therefore cannot get a government issued photo ID.

Shirley herself had some problems when she went to renew her license recently. The states' records did not match her name- something to do with her having changed her name when she got married, then getting divorced. She had to go to the records department and get that straightened out, then back to the Dept. of Motor Vehicles to get the license.

THIS is the purpose of this legislation. Discourage the elderly urban, students, working women, environmentalists (who are more likely not to drive), and other non-nuclear family types from going through the hassle.

By the way, in my previous post I mentioned that we are supposed to be able to get a provisional ballot if a person shows up without the proper ID. But I can tell you, I was a poll observer last fall, and there was certainly no ambiguity about getting a provisional ballot then, but if a voter was not on the list they were turning people away without giving them a ballot anyway! We saved 4 votes, but several others gave up.

[Orion The Hunter]

11. I have to agree..

This issue is not a big deal IMHO; it has more to do with states trying to find ways to generate additional revenues by requiring state-generated IDs for the use of certain services.

[CottonBear]

18. It is a big deal for us here in Georgia.

That's why John Lewis, Jesse Jackson, Willie Nelson and his wife, Randi Rhodes (Air America), almost the entire Black Congressional Caucus and many, many others will be marching for Voter Rights in Atlanta. I see that you live acorss the country. You may not be aware of what's happened since the Republicans won the governship for the first time since reconstruction.

[mrdmk]

25. I understand that they are restricting the rules and making access

to receive a photo ID more difficult. Are there any other motions they are implementing to making vote counting more accurate (i.e. paper trails)?

[CottonBear]

26. No such luck. Our Dem. SOS (Cathy Cox, who've I've met) was the first

to have a state go 100% Diebold post-2000 election debacle. We were totally 100% Diebold by the 2002 elections. There are movements to go paper trail but I think we must have hand-counted paper ballots.
:scared: I'm really worried. The 2006 mid-terms are coming up fast. :(

[mrdmk]

30. Good Luck, Peace be with You! n/t

[CottonBear]

32. Thanks! Good luck out there in California too! n/t

[brentspeak]

29. Willie Nelson is married to Randi Rhodes? (n/t)

[CottonBear]

31. No, of course not. Look at the punctuation. The post does not say that.

Do you listen to AAR? Randi is divorced. She is good friends with Willie Nelson and his wife. She will march with them in Atlanta.

[Boredtodeath]

42. My whole family's going CB!

Me, my kids, my son-in-law, friends, everyone we can fit in the vehicles.

I suspect there will be too many folks there for DUers to meet up, but we'll be there somewhere in the crowd.

[MGKrebs]

44. I'll be there.

Look for the Georgia For Democracy banner. I'll be on one end of it!

[AX10]

16. Georgia = Klan Land

[one_true_leroy]

23. that's blatantly unfair and a slap in the face

to people here who've spent their lives opposing crap like that. remember carter? cynthia mckinney? max cleland?

[CottonBear]

27. Not nice and not fair and not true.

I am so tired of Southern bashing. Look, we've had our problems but so has every other state at some time in the history of the USA. If you've never lived here or even visited here how could you know anything about us.

We are the state of Jimmy Carter, MLK Jr., Max Cleland, Cynthia McKinney, John Lewis, Michael Thurmond, Thurbert Baker, and Andrew Young among others.

[napi21]

35. I do live in Ga., and I had to get an ID card because I can't drive

anymore. I didn't get it to vote! (Although I've voted in every election in every place we've ever lived!) I got it because you need a State issued ID card for a LOT of other things too. You need it to buy beer, get a card at Blockbuster, for proof when you get something notarized, even to pay for things at a store with your credit card.

I hear what you're saying about it looking like these new regs will affect the poor more than the rivh, and that's probably true. Closing a lot of the DMV offices made it more of a PIA to get a DL or and ID, but it didn't make it impossible or unreasonable. You really only have to get your ID once, because you can now renew online or by mail. I just got my renewal last week, and I can renew the darn ID card for 10 years!

Sure, it would be easier if there were more DMV offices, and I really believe they should include student ID's from ALL schools, but some of the other things like a utility bill isn't right.

[Boredtodeath]

41. Only 28 DMV offices statewide in 159 counties

How do you suggest rural Georgians GET those ID cards when they aren't lucky enough to AFFORD online access for renewal?

[martymar64]

50. I agree, it isn't fair to GA

As a native Texan that has lived out west for many years, I can understand the animosity of people against the South. They just don't realize that there are MANY southerners that believe in equality and justice. After all, my state is the home of Willie, Molly Ivins, Jim Hightower, Ann Richards, and many many more.

However, you should also mention Georgians that contribute to our culture (REM, B-52's, David Cross).
Not scolding, just my 2 cents.

Cheers! (sorry, I've been drinking)

[Andromeda]

46. Pass the popcorn...

:popcorn:

[Jose Diablo]

24. Jim Crow remix. n/t

[CottonBear]

28. Not true. This is a voting rights issue not a segregation issue.

This Voter ID law affects the poor and minorites of all types, not just blacks.

[Jose Diablo]

47. Uh huh, thats why today in the news in Atlanta

it was discussed how seeing the voters rights law passed 40 years ago was up for reenactment, and the new voter ID law passed in Georgia would need to be approved by the Feds as it changed eligibility tests for voters. The news bullhorn was so sad that such a good law passed in Georgia would need Fed approval, so sad.

Listen, I can smell a con coming from that gold dome down in Atlanta. Right now there is nothing but a bunch of carpetbaggers and crooks in that building. They want to disqualify as many blacks as they can to keep in power. They don't give one twit about Billy Bob Roy, that idjet will vote however they want him to. It's the blacks they want to disenfranchise.

As long as they can keep Billy Bob Roy thinking he is much better than blacks, they will have his vote no matter how poor the smuck becomes. Why do you think unions never got a firm foot in the door down here, it's the idiocy of Billy Bob Roy, thats why.

And the powers to be like Billy to stay dumb, thats why the school system sucks.

All this is an old game.

Edit: But to tell the truth, I don't know whats worse, the repukes or the Toms.

[BronxBoy]

55. I'm in Gwinnet......

Recent transplant. If I remember right, this bill was supposed to be a way of eliminating the problem with "illegal aliens" being able to vote. At least that was the rhetoric that stuck with me.

For everyone who says that it's no big deal to get a government ID, come to GA and try. We had to wait almost 4 hours to get our GA driver's licenses and the DMV center was not accessible at all to anyone without public transportation. The day we went, it was raining and they literally had a line of people out the door waiting to be serviced. 3 people to wait on a hundred people.

Well, I'm sure the rampant voting by illegal aliens has been curtailed and the republic is safe. :sarcasm:

[Catherine Vincent]

33. VOTER VERIFIED PAPER BALLOTS!!

[cosmicdot]

37. Bill, did you address Election Fraud?

and, call for immediate steps and measures to fix things?

I do hope you included Election Fraud in this speech, and others you make.

We have a major problem here, Mr. President. Grave danger confronts us. Our nation's destiny is being driven by fraud, corruption and lies. Where will that take us?

I do wish you would lend some vocal attention, a voice, to this crucial national security issue as, say, you did the other day being impressed with Judge Roberts; or fielding questions re "about the presidential ambitions of (your) wife".

It's great that you focus on such important issues as health care, "from childhood obesity in the United States to AIDS in Africa"; but policy stems from choices made at the ballot box -- and, Diebold, ES&S, et al, are making those decisions. We the People are being overruled. Policy is being subverted.

Georgia lost the Governorship for the first time since Reconstruction; and, Senator Max Cleland no longer serves in the Senate ... a significant shift in power has occurred ... and, Ralph Reed awaits in the wings ...

With or without a Voter ID, it won't amount to a hill of beans with Diebold counting 100% of the votes in Georgia; and, with BBV nationwide. A vote can be counted, but will it be counted for the candidate for whom it was intended?

Silence from our national leaders implies complicity; and, it certainly doesn't give us much hope.

[Boredtodeath]

43. No, Bill didn't but Rev. Jackson did yesterday

at a press conference! In a big way.

[Iowa]

38. Just as an aside...

There seems to be an underlying assumption here that those who are struggling will tend to vote Democrat. Certainly that is logical. However, as a government professional serving people with disabilities, I was required to offer voter registration to all applicants. I would estimate (based upon my purely anecdotal observations) that I registered roughly 10 republicans for every democrat. And this was in a county that voted blue in both 2000 and 2004. Keep in mind that almost every one of these folks had no job, no resources, and many were entirely dependent upon SSI and other government assistance - just to meet their basic survival needs. Perhaps studies show otherwise, but this was a real eye-opener for me and I found it chilling to think that so many would identify with a party that was hell-bent on cutting the fragile thread they were hanging by.

[wrlwnd]

53. What's the big deal?

Requiring an ID to vote is a *good* thing