(Gas) Prices Fuel a Rebellion

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/05/AR2005080501595.html

For some people, it's hitting the big five-oh that really hurts -- that is, dropping $50 on a tank of gas. For others, it's just that relentless upward creep in prices that gets their attention.

Whatever the trigger, drivers pulling up to the pump in vehicles that ostensibly require high-grade gas are wondering if they really need the more expensive fuel or whether it's okay just to fill it up with regular. As gas prices soar, car owners increasingly are going for the cheaper stuff -- no matter how fancy their wheels. And station owners and oil companies are seeing the impact: Sales of premium and mid-grade gasoline are tumbling.

It's an age-old response, industry experts say, for drivers to switch from pricey, higher-octane formulations of gas to cheaper alternatives whenever gasoline prices rise substantially. Now, with prices stuck stubbornly high, oil experts wonder whether high-grade gas will go the way of the Studebaker.

"I foresee no serious decline in prices anytime soon, so the question is, will consumers' buying habits change permanently if the higher prices stay as they are," said Daniel F. Gilligan, president of the Petroleum Marketers Association, which represents independent filling stations. "Will it be more difficult to attract consumers back to the higher-octane fuels? I don't know."

[noahmijo]

1. Well I no longer drive to work I take the bus

I drive an entire 6 miles a day in a Chevy Prism to get to and from a bus station to commute to work which is about a 35 mile round trip.

[Joebert]

3. I wish we had mass transit.

Our buses only run until 6:00pm, and never on weekends.

And with all the big SUVs out here, and lack of bike lanes that are safe, no way to ride in.

Stupid shortsighted...

<grumble>

[heidler1]

5. I used to be a Real Estate Broker and I predict that out laying properties

will soon take a big hit price wise, They were very hard to move during the last oil crunch.

[Joebert]

7. I asked my realtor about such things...

He said yeah, that's the coasts.

Great. I live in the freakin desert, an hour to an airport, 1000+ miles to an ocean...

Superb.

New realtor time.

[Wcross]

32. I don't know about that.

I live 40 miles from my job. I have the option of moving closer and saving 5 dollars each work day in gas. Of course my property tax would increase by 2000 a year. I would also have to forefit the privacy of country living. 5 x 5 = 25. 25 X 52= 1300. I am still ahead by staying on the farm. Oh, I am also looking at a vehicle that gets much better mileage than my current vehicle. That would make it a wash for me.

[wrlwnd]

9. I hope prices go through the roof!

It's the only thing that will stop Americans' piggish behavior.

[noahmijo]

18. yea you know sadly with egg on my face I agree

On one hand I HATE the higher gas prices and this is coming from someone who thinks even my 29 mpg car uses too much gas and someday I want to switch over to a hybrid model that gets at least 40.

On the other hand you're right, maybe when Joe American realizes his gas payments are exceeding his hummer's payment maybe demand for stupid vehicles like that will decline.

[darkism]

21. My thoughts exactly!

I've been saying this for a while now and my friends think I'm crazy.

The easiest way to piss Americans off is to deprive them of their money. As long as gas stays high, bush approval stays low, and that's a Good Thing.™

[Joebert]

2. My old car used 91 Octane.

My new hybrid wants 85.

What a relief!

What I want to know is when will they start DROPPING speed limits as a response to fuel efficiency?

When I don't have anybody behind me, I'll do 30 in a 40, 40 in a 50, etc.

I speed up when there is a chance of somebody coming up on me, but when the road is empty, I take my time, and watch the MPG meter climb.

[Up2Late]

4. I've cut back my driving by about 75%

I can't afford to drive around, looking for work, so I just stay home, most of the time, and use the Internet to NOT find a Job.:evilfrown:

[cliss]

6. I will answer the question by Mr. Gilligan:

"will consumers buying habits change permanently?" Answer = Yes. When people can't afford to fill up their tank, what are they going to do? What planet is Mr. Gilligan lving on? I'm going to direct him to the LBN, which has threads like, "Americans save ABSOLUTELY NOTHING nowadays". Job figures skewed, More Americans hurting than ever before".

Question #2: "Will it be more difficult to atract consumers back..?"

Answer = See #1.

[Robb]

8. I've already changed

It won't work for everyone, but out here in the sticks I'm getting nearly 80 mpg on my commute. I can already feel the difference in the pocketbook:

:)

[Born Free]

20. ahhh yes, but some of us big people ride the bikes that use premium..

However, in reality the difference between premium and regular isn't as great as it seems at first glance. It's usually about 20 cents more , and percentage wise, that isn't too much when regular is over $2.25 a gallon. The gas for an afternoon on our old Harley Ultra is less than two movie tickets and we love being able to relax out on the tree covered roads. Although the Harley may be a little better on gas usage than many cars on the road, they make up the difference at the dealership when you stop in for service.

[BiggJawn]

10. What used to cost $60 a month now costs $160

15 miles one-way or not, I see me as a bicycle commuter in the not too distant future.
I'd buy a scooter, but all the money that could go for a scoot is going in the gas tank of the only motor I own.

[borlis]

11. It finally hit $2.50 today where I live.

Last Tuesday I put in $30 and got 1/2 tank. :cry: Where is the outrage? :mad:

[SleeplessinSoCal]

14. Consider yourself lucky - SoCal - $2.81. 99/100

[fortyfeetunder]

12. The outrage to Adminstration, Big Three, Big Oil...

We had almost 30 years to wean ourselves from fossil fuel dependency. But no, the 1980 oil glut had quenched most of the R&D projects and Murkan folks were complacent to drive on cheap gasoline.

Well, the chickens have come home to roost. Most of the cars on the road today should have been hybrid, fuel cell, but since the technology hasn't been happening, it will be awhile before everyone else catches up with Honda, Lexus, Toyota, Ford, etc who have at least one hybrid model. And Big Oil isn't complaining that prices are high....

[Joebert]

15. The hybrids are a great start.

If the gov't were serious, they'd stop giving hybrid owners a tax rebate.

They would start taxing the crap out of vehicles that get awful mileage.

No more breaks on trucks or SUVs driven by individuals that file as a business, etc.

[noahmijo]

35. I thought there was something called a "gas guzzler tax" in place

I remember a long time ago I was checking out some Dodge Vipers and there was listed a $3000 gas guzzler tax that was in addition to all the other fees you had to pay.

Funny thing is I see this for a car stickered at about $70k but never once for an SUV that costs around $25k and guess which one of the two terrorizes the road on a daily basis...

[noahmijo]

36. I thought there was something called a "gas guzzler tax" in place

I remember a long time ago I was checking out some Dodge Vipers and there was listed a $3000 gas guzzler tax that was in addition to all the other fees you had to pay.

Funny thing is I see this for a car stickered at about $70k but never once for an SUV that costs around $25k and guess which one of the two terrorizes the road on a daily basis...

[SleeplessinSoCal]

13. These Oil hikes carry over big time in the markets

[Zhade]

16. I laugh uproariously when I see a Hummer now.

Haha, SUCKER! How's about those trips to the pump, bitches?

I merely chuckle when I see a regular SUV.

[fearnobush]

17. Acetone as an Fuel Additive, Up to 35% increase reported.

I've been adding it to my gas for several months now, I save about 1.5 gallons per tank. thats about 35 miles more per tank. The cost is a few cents of Acetone per tank.


Acetone as an Additive


This project page was created as an adjunct to the following article by Louis LaPointe, which we recommend as an introduction to the subject.

Acetone In Fuel Said to Increase Mileage <http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/> - Up to 35% increase reported. Acetone said to improve the fuel's ability to vaporize completely by eliminating the surface tension that causes an increase in particulate vaporization temperature. (PESN; March 18, 2005)
A growing number of people are reporting their results, as tabulated here. Most have noted increased mileage, more power, more stable idle, faster start-up, cleaner emmissions. A few have not seen an increase in mileage at the concentration of acetone they tried. Too much acetone decreases mileage. Alcohol in the fuel tends to negate the positive effects of acetone.

Individual Reports - Listing of results from adding a small amount of acetone to the fuel in a wide range of vehicles.
FAQ for Acetone Project - What does acetone do to the fuel system components? How much do I add? Will it hurt me? How does it affect performance?

[aquart]

19. Is that nail polish remover?

[Massacure]

28. yes.

[Rainscents]

33. Do NOT use nail polish remover... You MUST use 100% Acetone!!!

Nail polish removers has other ingredients in it that is NOT good for the engine. I read an articles about this.

[aquart]

42. Thank you. That's what I wanted to know.

[PuraVidaDreamin]

24. So besides increasing mpg - how do you feel

that it treats your engine? BTW, acetone is
used as a nail polish remover. Haven't done
my nails since my oldest was born (22 yrs ago)
ha- how much does it cost?

Do you buy in bulk, and where? Hardware Stores

[Gold Metal Flake]

31. Acetone should not harm any engine components.

But only add 1-2 ounces per about 12 gallons, as the experimenters have suggested.

Acetone seems to act as a "wetting agent", reducing surface tension and allowing a finer atomization of fuel as it is injected (or introduced by a carburetor) into the engine.

[Rainscents]

34. Only use 100% pure Acetone!!! You can purchase this at almost

any hard ware store... I believe, even Target carry this.

[fearnobush]

41. I feel good, have twins on the way and am almost done renovating

my old house. Otherwise I've had nothing but smooth driving with the acetone. It improves milage while giving a little more kick to acceleration.

[AlamoDemoc]

22. To the rest of the world, our price complaint must look a little

silly. Even at an average $2.50 per gallon that is still far less than what the Europeans are paying ($6 per gallon)....heck even an oil producing nation like Canada pays higher prices than us at $4.00 per gallon.

[Mari333]

23. Problem is

we have no social services in this country..no health care, and we pay for everything out of pocket. Many European countries take care of their citizens, we do not. I would pay to see ONE Bush admin offical or ONE oil company CEO be forced to live on 7 dollars an hour for a year.

[teknomanzer]

40. In addition...

Europeans enjoy a top notch public transit system... here in the states you are a second class citizen if you ride the bus.

[Mari333]

25. the real rebellion will come when people stop buying gas altogether

I just changed jobs to be closer to work, less money but offset by the gas prices of driving so far for a better wage. I will work only a mile from home now, and probably walk when I can. I spend only 3 dollars a day to eat. My electric bill is 16 dollars a month. I never eat out, and keep everything turned off when Im not at home.Only shop at cheapo grocery store. Its amazing how little you can get by on if you choose to do so. Welcome to Bush's Amerikkka.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mari333]

27. Big Oil and Big Government seem to be the same guys

[lonestarnot]

29. Toyota set to produce 12 different models of hybrids.

[cornermouse]

39. Yeah, well let's hope their waiting lists are less than 6 to 18 months.

Apparently they've come up with the happy little notion that if they don't produce enough of them, they can demand a higher price.

[Gold Metal Flake]

30. A common misconception about fuels...

Some folks think that Premium grade is somehow "better" or of higher quality than mid-grade or low-grade. The difference is not "quality", it is octaine, or rather the relative speed at which the fuel burns. Engine with higher dynamic cylinder pressures at the point of ignition will require a slower-burning (higher octaine) fuel. So, too, will engines with large open comustion chambers (like the post-1971 V8s, when they were carving out the combustion chambers to lower compression).

On the other hand, engines that run fine on 87 will usually not run better on 91. In fact, a car that runs well on 87 that is fed 91 may end up wasting fuel, since the slower burning fuel may not be completely consumed when the exhaust valve opens.

It's simple to find out if your high-octain car will tolerate a lower rade of fuel. When your tank is empty, put in a 1/4 tank of 87. If the engine runs fine, great. If there is pinging, bucking or hard-starting, add high grade to get things back to normal. When the tank is down aain, try 89. Use the lowest grade that the engine will tolerate. Sometimes, if a little pinging is the only complaint, one can retard the ignition timing a deree or two to bring that under control.

[Chicago Democrat]

37. Very informative, but I have questions still...

Ok so Octane refers to the speed in which the fuel burns.

My Jeep Grand Cherokee seems to run 'faster' on 93 premium. I looked in the manual and it said "at least 87 octane".

So is this just an illusion that it runs faster? More nimble, more get up and go.

My sweet grandma has an old car and now she says she has to put 93 octane or else it stalls. (I wish I could buy here a new car!). Any suggestions?

[Gold Metal Flake]

38. I can't argue with your Jeep impressions...

It may be that the ignition timing is set a bit too far advanced to work with lower grade fuels. 87 would require less ignition advance. If you run 87, does it ping? If not, it may be that you can set the timing so that it will run well on 89 or 87. It might be worth discussing this with your mechanic. With my modified V8s, I like to optimize them so that they run the best on the lowest octain they will tolerate. In summer, with SoCal heat and the AC on, I sometimes have to go up to prevent detonation on one of them.

As for grandma's car, I need more info. but here are some general suggestions. Stalling would suggest that maybe the idle mixture is a bit lean, or that there is some dirt in the carb idle passages or the injectors (resulting in poor mixture, lean, poor spray pattern, improper cylinder to cylinder mixtures), maybe the fuel filter needs to be changed, maybe the timing is off, maybe it needs new plugs, plug wires, cap & rotor.

Stalling on lower grade fuels tells me that something in the fuel/ignition systems is not right. Even a high-compression engine like a late 1960's car would idle on lower grade gas, it would just ping like hell once you get on the throttle.