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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 01:44 PM
Original message
Ad Campaign Says Roberts Backed Violent Protesters
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 01:48 PM by steve2470
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/08/AR2005080801460.html

Judge's Allies Defend His Work on Abortion Case

By Dan Balz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, August 9, 2005; Page A03

A prominent abortion rights group launched a television ad yesterday that accuses Supreme Court nominee John G. Roberts Jr. of siding with violent extremists and a convicted clinic bomber while serving in the solicitor general's office, an accusation that Roberts's supporters immediately condemned as a flagrant distortion.

The ad, sponsored by NARAL Pro-Choice America, focuses on Roberts's role in a case involving whether a 19th-century anti-Ku Klux Klan statute could be used to shut down blockades of health clinics by abortion protesters. The solicitor general's office filed a friend-of-the-court brief siding with the clinic protesters, including Operation Rescue. The high court ruled 6 to 3 against the health clinics in January 1993.


The NARAL ad, set to begin airing tomorrow on local channels in Maine and Rhode Island and nationally on the CNN and Fox News cable networks, features Emily Lyons, a clinic director who was badly injured when a bomb exploded at her clinic in Birmingham in 1998. The ad ends by urging viewers to call their senators to tell them to oppose the federal appellate judge's confirmation to the Supreme Court.

"Supreme Court nominee John Roberts filed court briefs supporting violent fringe groups and a convicted clinic bomber," the ad states. The ad concludes by saying, "America can't afford a justice whose ideology leads him to excuse violence against other Americans."

<snip>
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Wilber_Stool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. I would say that
the gloves are off on this one. This is really going to piss a lot of people off.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yes, I already saw some "gloves off"
Monica Crowley, MSNBC, simply outraged that anyone would accuse him of this. No refutation of the charges ( that I could see -- but I wasn't giving it 100% of my attention), just moral outrage that the charges were made at all. "How dare they say this?"
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Gee, by dubya's own reckoning, Roberts is WITH TERRORISTS!
Who'd a thunk it?
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. nominated!
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. Considering all the ugly crap he's been a party to, why mention abortion?
The guy helped counsel Jeb Bush on how to circumvent the will of the people if they couldn't stuff the ballot boxes sufficiently. He's sided consistently with corporations against the little guy. He's pro segregation many years after the issue was supposedly settled.

The right loves nothing more than when they can steer arguments to gay rights or abortion. With the record of this little apparatchik, we have plenty of ammunition and should use it.

Get used to it: regardless of the fact that the majority in this country is solidly behind a woman's right to choose, it's a very divisive issue. It's like gun control or the idiotic flag amendment: avoid dealing with it. There's plenty to hang this guy as a tool of the powerful, and that stuff plays. Let THEM bring it up after he's been so tarred for his other malfeasance.
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SuperWonk Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Why now?
Shouldn't we wait and focus all our attention on the replacement for Rehnquist?
Let's not waste our resources on something like this...
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Fight them at every turn
That's what they do, that's what we should have been doing all along.
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
7. Favors blockades, eh? Let's flip this coin around now!
What happens if protests blockade all the roads to Bush's Crawford ranch? :shrug:
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Cicero Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
8. This ad is going to backfire on NARAL
Voices are already being loudly raised as to how the ad is factually incorrect, how the case in question was over a right to protest outside clinics that perform abortions, not to blockade. Also, the bombing attacks happened 5 years after this case was decided, and Roberts has long had publicly stated that he does not support violence.

I know there's plenty of things that he does support that could be targeted, but this is not one of them.

Later,
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SuperWonk Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Wow...
5 years??? Talk about misleading.
How is this helping our cause??
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cookiebird Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. It doesn't help the cause
The abortion issue is a hot button, regardless of how it is used.
Skepticism, folks. However you feel about the topic, your buttons are being pushed. (BTW, 52+ years on the planet).
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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Incorrect. Roberts defended Michael Bray, a CONVICTED clinic bomber
in an amicus (proactive, unsolicited) brief: Bray vs Alexandria Womens Clinic.

Bray already had a long, convicted history of clinic violence and bombings when Roberts decided to step in, unasked, to defend him.

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SuperWonk Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Well...
If they wanted to get any of that across, they should of presented it in a whole different way.
That ad misses the whole point.
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Cicero Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. True, but overall not relevant
Yes, I was incorrect in that the case was about people and groups blockading an abortion clinic. Mea culpa.

However, what was being argued was that the clinic could not use an 1871 anti-discrimination law as the basis for their suit. Roberts readily acknowledged that the defendants were already in violation of various state laws, but that wasn't the issue.

From http://factcheck.org/article340.html

"...It is true that Roberts sided with the bomber and many other defendants in a civil case, but the case didn't deal with bombing at all. Roberts argued that abortion clinics who brought the suit had no right use an 1871 federal anti-discrimination statute against anti-abortion protesters who tried to blockade clinics. Eventually a 6-3 majority of the Supreme Court agreed, too. Roberts argued that blockades were already illegal under state law."

...

"In words and images, the ad conveys the idea that Roberts took a legal position excusing bombing of abortion clinics, which is false. To the contrary, during the Reagan administration when he was Associate Counsel to the President, Roberts drafted a memo saying abortion-clinic bombers "should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law." In the 1986 memo, Roberts called abortion bombers "criminals" and "misguided individuals," indicating that they would get no special treatment regarding requests for presidential pardons. Reagan in fact gave no pardons to abortion-clinic bombers."

...

"In Roberts' brief, and in oral arguments he made in person before the Supreme Court, the government argued that a particular part of U.S. law (Section 1985(3) of Title 42, which derived from the Ku Klux Klan Act of 1871) applied only to conspiracies to deprive people of civil rights due to racial discrimination, not gender discrimination. They also argued that the protestors did "not aim their anti-abortion activities exclusively at women" but "at anyone, whether male or female, who assists or is involved in the abortion process – doctors, nurses, counselors, boyfriends, husbands and family members, staffs, and others." The court, in a 6-3 decision, ultimately agreed with much of the government's argument, saying that "the characteristic that formed the basis of the targeting" for protest "was not womanhood, but the seeking of abortion," which is entirely voluntary. The court also found that the protestors did not engage in a conspiracy to deprive women of their civil rights.

"To be sure, anti-abortion protestors saw the court's decision as a victory. It made them subject only to state actions for simple trespassing on the clinic's private property rather than for federal claims involving civil rights violations, at least as long as the protests stayed non-violent and didn't raise charges of assault or inciting to riot. But the ruling and the argument that led to hardly excuses violence, as the NARAL ad falsely claims. Nowhere in Roberts' court brief or oral arguments does he defend or excuse acts of violence."

Please do not try to claim to me that a person's past criminal history means that we can deny him the ability to defend himself during the one time when a particular law is actually being misapplied to him. That's something I would expect a conservative to advocate. "Well, we know he's guilty of something, he's been guilty in the past you know, lets just convict (or sue) him even if the law really doesn't apply in this case. He deserves it, after all."


Later,

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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I did not try to "claim" anything to you, just stated basic facts of the
timeline.

You are free to infer intent of a man who would aid, unasked, convicted clinic bombers any way you like.

No need to insult me as you did in your last paragraph, all I did was point out the matters of fact.
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Cicero Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. My apologies, insulting you was not my intent
But it seems you want to automatically infer that, because Roberts lent his support in this case, then he MUST support bombing clinics. Could it be that he's just a good lawyer? What about the other case that's gotten some airplay, where he aided an effort to overturn a state amendment (Colorodo?) that would have discriminated against gays. Does that mean Roberts must be gay? Or that he automatically supports "the gay agenda." (Scare quotes deliberate). Would you say that the ACLU supports the KKK if they put in their support in a free speech case?

I did not mean to insult you, perhaps I could have phrased my statements better, but you understand where I'm coming from, right?

Later,
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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I do understand what you are saying, thanks for the apology.
In my personal opinion, regarding this one case only, the civil rights argument against Bray is weak and there were probably legitimate reasons not to argue it that way. I think the Alexandria Women's Clinic most likely had much stronger arguments to go with and unfortunately chose the wrong one.

As far as Roberts is concerned, as I stated above, he probably gave a good legal argument (and obviously the SC agreed w/him, they ruled against the clinic). However, I must admit, I find it really unsettling that he jumped into the thick of this case when it didn't involve the gov't at all, it was a civil matter between private parties. Not to mention, he advocated the position of some pretty high-profile advocates of extreme violence who had already spent time in prison for these crimes.

Ultimately, it simply makes me wonder about his judgment and discernment, not to mention his lack of hesitancy to use his position in gov't to affect a very controversial outcome.

Why would he choose this case to involve himself in?
Why would Roberts want to associate himself with these people, unasked?

I'm not really prepared to go into a comprehensive discussion about Roberts or all his cases, but this one did kind of stop me in my tracks.
To be honest, his actions with this one somewhat frighten me.

But anyway, initially I was just trying to point out the correct timing of those events.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
18. How dare they say this!
Don't they know that Roberts stands beside Jesus at the right hand of God?

:sarcasm:

Once again Bush pulls something out of his pants and calls it candy.

After all these years you think people would learn.
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
19. Dupe
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SuperWonk Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Check this out...
"Indeed, the Washington Post reported last week that in 1986, when he was an assistant in the White House counsel's office, Mr. Roberts wrote a memo recommending against a presidential pardon for abortion-clinic bombers. 'No matter how lofty or sincerely held the goal, those who resort to violence to achieve it are criminals,' Roberts wrote."

http://www.opinionjournal.com/nextjustice/?id=110007083

More food for thought. (Also repeated above.)
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. "No matter how lofty or sincerely held the goal..."
:wtf:

So Robert's is talking about pardoning abortion clinic bombers, but he's thinking about lofty and sincerely held goals...

That's scary.



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SuperWonk Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. That's the point...
Roberts is not pardoning any of these killers.

Be careful about what this NARAL ad is saying. It is just not true.

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