Airlines lose lifevests to fit fat flyers

[Eugene]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/airlines/story/0,1371,1548262,00.html

Airlines lose lifevests to fit fat flyers

Gary Younge in Chicago
Saturday August 13, 2005
The Guardian

Americans have put on so much weight that airlines have removed
phones, magazines and even lifevests from aircraft to compensate.

This week, the federal aviation administration revised guidelines used
by airlines to calculate how much weight they have on board to take
account of the fact that Americans are getting fatter. The FAA has
added 8% to a male and 18% to a female traveller in an attempt to
ensure that the centre of gravity, takeoff speed and fuel needs for
planes can be more accurately estimated.

Assumptions about weight were last made 10 years ago and obesity among
adults has increased by 60% over the course of the 90s.

According to the National centre for Health statistics, 30% of
American adults over 20 are obese. Two years ago the low-cost carrier
Southwest airlines started forcing large passengers to pay for two
seats.

more...

[merwin]

1. Could it be that the seats are getting smaller and they're packing in more

people? I know for a fact that seats have gotten smaller.

[clydefrand]

2. I wish I could say the same for mine. Perhaps if I didn't sit

in front of this monitor and read/post to DU, it would be!

[barb162]

49. Seat size and front to back have shrunk like crazy, not that

there was ever that much except in first class. When someone in front puts their seat on recline, it almost touches your nose.

[SemperEadem]

105. is that like

"gee.. the house I grew up in is so much smaller than I remembered"?

Perception is just that.

[bluestateguy]

3. I approve of what SW Airlines did

Too fat for one seat? Then you pay for 2 seats. I have been jammed into a seat on a plane before next to persons so fat that I could barely move at all. It's not fair to the other passengers.

[geomon666]

4. How about what's fair to the overweight passenger?

Having to pay 2,3,400 dollars more so the skinny person next to him/her can stretch their arms? And believe me, having that extra seat doesn't do a damn thing to make the overweight person more comfortable.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. I don't see why it would be about what's fair to the

overweight passenger. I believe this is about the comfort of the other passengers who have to sit by the overweight passenger.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

11. I see you're drinking the Kool-Aid, too.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. Not hardly

but such a snappy comeback. You should be so proud.

[barb162]

50. Did you ever sit next to a 300+ pounder

Do it once and sit in the middle and I bet you wont be talking about koolaid again

[Cicero]

61. I happen to be a 300 pounder...

...and I have no problems whatsoever in having to pay for an extra seat in order to fly. If you can't fit in the seat, you can't fit in the seat, and it is incumbent on the overweight passenger to determine in advance whether an extra seat will be needed (or fly first class, I'm guessing the seats there are big enough to accomodate. I haven't flown first class since I was a child.)

Later,

[barb162]

64. thank you for being reasonable and having

such perfect sense.

[proud2BlibKansan]

70. ROFLMAO

:rofl:

Maybe they will be discussing the sugar free kind?

[Endangered Specie]

79. Hey, Im 300 pounds and I can fit into a SW airlines seat.

In any event, I hope fat people make your flights as miserable as possible too :hi:

Sit some where the fuck else.

[barb162]

89. Why don't you

"sit some where the fuck else. I hope skinny people make your flights as miserable as possible too "

[DS1]

96. I'd like to point out that there's plenty of space to spread out

on the wings just don't get your happy meal caught up in the airlerons

[Megahurtz]

120. Lol!

:thumbsup:

[proud2BlibKansan]

99. So what do you suggest?

Since the airline assigns seating, do we stand up and say "Oh stewardess, can I get a new seat that isn't next to a fat person?" :crazy:

[geomon666]

12. That's exactly my point.

Why should people care about the overweight passenger? It's not like their human or anything. :eyes:

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. And so are the people who are crowded

and uncomfortable sitting next to the overweight passenger who needs more than one seat. I gather this has never happened to you.

[geomon666]

42. No it has, see I'm the fat unperson you sit next to.

I'm the one that has to pay for a whole other seat just so you can have room to curl up and fall asleep in yours. Meanwhile my knees are getting crushed for 3-6 hours while you nap comfortably. The extra space isn't for me, it's for you.

How would you like it if they said, "Skinny people only have to pay for 1st class"? Would you like to spend that extra 4-500 dollars when you don't have to? I know I sure don't.

[Jacobin]

43. I had the "pleasure" of sitting next to a 450 plus pound

guy on a completely booked flight from San Francisco to Houston last summer.

I was literally squished against the armrest for the entire flight. This was on United and not SW. It was miserable and the flight attendants could do nothing because every seat was taken and NO ONE was going to trade seats with me.

I completely agree that you should pay for the space you take up.

[barb162]

51. I had this happen too. I was also squashed against the armrest and

could not move. The person needed two seats, not his and MINE, but his and HIS.

[proud2BlibKansan]

48. If it is about space

and you are taking up more, it seems only fair to charge you for it. So the extra space is most definitely for you. My best friend is a 'big woman' and she has no problem with this. She loves to travel and said maybe this would force her to finally do something about her weight. I was a smoker until recently and the numerous anti-smoking regulations had a lot to do with why I quit.

[geomon666]

57. It's hypocritical of you to demand extra room...

but have somebody else pay for it. Oh you were squished, well what about the guy next to you? Isn't he squished too? Why don't you pay for an extra seat if you don't want to be squished?

[proud2BlibKansan]

60. I am not "demanding" the extra room!

Just the room I paid for. If you sit next to me and take up part of my seat, I am not supposed to complain? Think about this for just a minute here.

[geomon666]

65. You're demanding that I pay for extra room...

not for myself but for you. And guess what, even I wasn't overweight, I'd still be squishing next to you because I'm wide bodied with broad shoulders. So are you going to make me pay for more room for you even if I wasn't overweight?

Coach isn't for comfort. You want comfort, go pay the extra cost for 1st class. You won't do that will you?

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. So you think I should smile and let you

sit in part of my seat? Sorry, but if those broad shoulders and wide body take up part of my seat, you can bet your ass I would be complaining. And you should be the one paying for 1st class cause you need the extra room. I fit in a coach seat just fine :)

[geomon666]

68. So do I.

But I don't complain to the person in front of me when they're crushing my knees with their seat for hours and hours. And if my arm is in your space, well then I can lean to the side just fine.

[toopers]

95. I got an idea . . .

Let's seat people according to their girth. Create sections according how big they are. Put all the skinny people in one section of the plane and put all the fat people in another section of the plane. I think this would solve all the problems.

[Nihil]

109. "Oh now look what you've done ..."

"... you've put all the fat people on one side and all the skinny ones
on the other! We'll be going round in circles forever like this!"

:-)

[Megahurtz]

121. LOL!

:7

[SemperEadem]

111. did you pay for the skinny person's seat next to you? No, you didn't.

what you're talking about is getting special treatment and feeling entitled to a preference you don't have.

[DS1]

97. I can't believe I just read that

How is your argument supposed to be logical?

This person simply wants to enjoy all the room he paid for, without a roll of fat having over the seatrest. Or squeezing under it.

[MADem]

98. In an open seating scenario

...where I KNOW that the obese passenger has purchased two seats, I will run to sit next to that person (while everyone else is avoiding them). Generally, they only use a seat and a half, anyway, giving me a bit more room to spread out, myself! And they generally don't use the underseat stowage for both seats, allowing me to stuff MY stuff under the unused seat and gain a bit of legroom. I've done this perhaps three, four times, and found my seatmates to be good company--pleasant, good conversationalists, but not "too-too" if you know what I mean.

I saw a news show back a while that said that airline seats have gotten smaller (and they have--back in the day, EASTERN coach was like First Class is today) and the airlines are giving every ass eighteen inches of room, where most need twenty four to sit comfortably over long hauls. And then, there's the leg room issue: nowadays on many flights, it's like sitting in the back of a damn Ford Torino with a front bench seat and a very tall driver! Agonia!!!!

[barb162]

53. Perhaps the overweight passenger taking up half the next person's

seat should be concerned about smothering that person when he/she isn't even paying for that seat?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

30. Yeah, who should have to sit next to fat people! Ewww!

:eyes:

You're kidding me, right?

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. No I am not kidding

It seems very fair to me that if a person takes up more than one seat, they should have to pay for more than one seat.

[Endangered Specie]

87. I think we should charge extra for women...

their phermones affect me and spread into my seat area more. Furthermore, mothers with infants who pollute my auditory environment should be charged half a plane.

yes, its :sarcasm:, but the levels of absurdity arent too far off.

[cally]

101. I think men should have to pay more

or be put in a special section. Too many have broad shoulders and longer legs. I can't put my seat back as far as I want because I hit their legs. Their shoulders overlap into my seat. Only smaller men should be able to sit next to me. I like to sleep on airplanes and use two armrests. Those large men are a problem. :sarcasm:

[ikojo]

36. What about people who do not want to be on a flight

with a screaming kid? Don't I have a right to a quiet flight?

Maybe they should segregate parents with children from those who do not want to listen to whining kids or be kicked in the back of their already too small seat by a kid who is bored to tears.

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. I have no problem with that

I also can't understand how parents put kids on planes unattended. They should raise the age limit for a kid to fly alone.

[Lorien]

88. I do think that parents of small children should be required to

bring along sippy cups (for the takeoff and landing-the pressure makes their ears hurt) and activity books/ small toys/ reading material/ portable DVD player-SOMETHING for the child to focus on. I'm a former Disney animator, so naturally I have a whole library of Disney DVDs, along with toys and book freebies that were gathered over the years. I always travel with a portable DVD player, two sets of headphones, eight children's films and some animation related pocket sized books. The fussiest kids sitting closest to me always get the DVD player. The look on the parent's face when I offer it to them is always one of extreme gratitude and relief (sometimes the other passengers have that same look, lol)!

[fujiyama]

72. I sympathize with someone that's overweight

As far as I understand no one would like to be overweight. Obesity is a health problem and isn't just due to 'self control' or 'eating too much' . We as a modern society have a problem that we really are not confronting.

That said, when I pay for one seat to fly, I would like to have that room to myself. I don't believe I should have to share that seat with others, whether it's another extremely large person or carry-on luggage luggage, or what have you.

It's partly about comfort, but it's mainly about getting whatever space you paid for on a plane. Space is limited on a plane and is at a premium. If anyone person occupies more than his fair share, then they have to pay more. This applies just as much to an overweight person as it does to someone with extra large carry on luggage.

[Patchuli]

83. I think it's about all passengers' comfort

but if someone is so heavy that they are hanging into another seat's space, they should pay for it. It's not fair for the "skinny" or usually, normally-sized person not to be able to "stretch their arms." It's not the fault of other passengers that a heavy person needs more room and they shouldn't pay for it in discomfort.

Not to be unsympathetic, but America needs to lighten up.

[SemperEadem]

107. No

Having to pay 2,3,400 dollars more so the skinny person next to him/her can stretch their arms?

How about to sit in their own chair, which they paid for, comfortably? You are saying that slimmer passengers are duty bound to give up their comfort on an airline flight.

The first airline which has a section for overweight passengers where the chairs fit them will probably be hit with a discrimination lawsuit because the overweight passengers will claim that they are being made to feel inferior by sitting in seats which fit their bodies.

It's a no win siutation.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

6. The airlines are reducing space for each individual passenger....

...so they can pack more people into each plane to balance their additional fuel costs so they can still make a profit. That's why all of the so-called "extras" are disappearing, but they need to blame it on somebody or some group of people...and overweight people are REAL easy targets, aren't they?

And guess what? Overweight people are ALREADY required to pay for two seats. I'm sure folks in that situation really appreciate your compassionate response.

[bluestateguy]

7. I stand by my statement

I'm not in the business of making apologies for the things I say.

I'm not Richard Durbin or NARAL.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

10. Well, that certainly tells us...

...what we had already begun to suspect about you, doesn't it?

But, that's your problem, not ours.

[DivinBreuvage]

13. I've always thought the US government should impose a tax on clods

but doubtless you'd find that one cruel and unfair.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

31. Obesity is a disease. Why don't we charge diabetics for 2 seats?

Or people with breathing apparatuses? Or how about people with AIDS? Apparently that can be transmitted through sweat and that's not fair to the other passengers! :eyes:

[architect359]

62. Because diabetics don't necessarily take up more than one seat (n/t)

[Cicero]

63. Oh give me a break

As I've stated before, I happen to be a 300 pounder. (Plus, actually.) I did not "catch" obesity, all right? I didn't sit down on a dirty toilet seat and boom, I caught obesity, 100 extra pounds suddenly materialized on my body. No sir, I became obese like any other red-blooded American: I eat too much and I don't get enough exercise.

And, if I ever need to fly anywhere again, guess what, I will determine in advance (in consultation with whomever from the airline I need to speak to) whether I can comfortably fit in the airline seat, and if it turns out I can't, well, guess what, I'll pay for the additional seat, or (if the seats will accomodate me), upgrade to first class.

I'm fat, and as with a number of other things in my life (which I will not get into here), I am paying for it... including an extra airline seat.

Later,

[Endangered Specie]

81. Personally, you should just take one seat and smash

all these holier than thou assholes who care nothing more about their "private space".

edit: looking at this thread, I might be doing the same in the future.

[SemperEadem]

112. violence never solves anything

[Endangered Specie]

80. I got a better idea...

charge pregnant women for two seats, as well as handicapped people, think that will go over well?

[benEzra]

106. From personal experience, I can tell you that they DO charge

for in-flight oxygen...my son (now 6) has been on in-flight O2 on trips to Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and Children's Hospital Boston, and IIRC we paid $75 PER FLIGHT LEG extra...that's $300 round trip.

A bit off topic, but I wanted to clarify that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. I have also been in that situation

It's not only uncomfortable, it is dangerous.

[Dulcinea]

47. Agreed.

The same thing has happened to me. Why shouldn't overweight people pay for the extra space they need? Why is my comfort less important than theirs?

[Endangered Specie]

78. Well, I hope that us fat passangers continue to make

your flying experience as miserable as possible. :hi:

[Codeine]

93. I don't get you...

You seem to revel in the notion that you can make people uncomfortable by taking up the space that they've paid for because you are fat. They paid for a whole seat, why should they have to give you part of it?

[proud2BlibKansan]

100. I agree

I am about over this "I'm fat, I need more space and I'm not paying for it" attitude. And no, I am NOT willing to just give part of my seat to a fat person.

[SemperEadem]

114. why are you so hateful?

[Megahurtz]

123. That's Gross. n/t

[LeftyElvis]

5. Let's face it;

We are a nation of fat slobs. Supersize Me; a great, great documentary on poor eating habits should be manadatory in all public schools.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

9. Gee...there couldn't be any ulterior motive for anyone making...

...the claim that Americans weight too much, could there?

Seems to me I recall the medical profession decides the ideal weight to height ratio for people with different frames. I also recall that they have consistently reduced the weights in each category at least once in the last 10 years, DESPITE evidence that documents that people have been growing taller and weighing more (without appearing to be fat in any way) over that same period of time.

Who gains?

The medical profession?

The manufacturers of so-called fat-free foods?

The weight-loss industry?

And too many others to list.

Yes, let's face it...we're being taken for another ride at OUR expense.

[kiraboo]

15. Okay, so you're saying Americans are not getting fatter?

Or that being fat is healthy? You know we're not talking about "pleasantly plump", or "muscular" or a "large frame". We're
talking about obesity. Fat. Large. Too darned big to walk around the block without sweating profusely.

And while I sympathize to a degree with the plight these people find themselves in, when the airline has to eliminate safety devices to accomodate their "largesse", then I get a bit pissed off.

[AndyTiedye]

22. Americans Getting Fatter Since the Gov't Started Shutting Down Raves

Coincidence? I think not.

Let the People Dance!

[Deja Q]

17. Make the problem and charge money for a placebo of a 'solution'.

No wonder some see our corporate leaders as evil.

:shrug:

[mainer]

41. In Europe, the fat people are all American tourists.

There is absolutely no doubt about it. Americans are the fatties of the world. Try sitting on a bus in the UK. Tiny little seats for small European butts. Americans spill over onto two of those little seats.

I remember sitting in a cafe in Capri one summer. And suddenly, amidst all the slim Italians and French, I saw a herd ELEPHANTS lumber by, led by their skinny Italian tour guide. I mean, truly fat, slow-moving people, moving in single file because they couldn't get through the narrow street abreast of each other.

I was not surprised to hear them speaking English. American English.

[K8-EEE]

115. Obesity Epidemic Affects Everthing From Air Travel To Coffins!

I forget the stats but an increasing amount of Americans aren't fitting into standard coffins, this has started a whole cottage industry of plus size coffins!

I have nothing against fat people AT ALL (my weight has been a struggle for me especially the last few years - post 40 metabolism SUCKS!) but I really do worry when I go somewhere like Disneyland and every other person is like 50, 75, 100 pounds overweight.

I see so many young kids that are fat, IMO it's all about Corporate Food pushing, if you count all the messages you get in one day telling you to drink Coke or eat french fries, it's probably like 1000 times a day you process this eat-eat-eat message from TV, radio, billboards etc.

Nothing more schitzo than the cover of a woman's magazine in the market; the inevitable "miracle" diet along with ridiculously fattening "menu planners" and directions to make a cake that looks like a hat or something.

I also had the same experience of going to Spain and going, where's all the fat people? Plus a definite lack of "diet" food. They walk everywhere (I stayed in a 6 floor walk-up) and they eat smaller portions and they take a longer time to eat. Those are all things I try to make a concious effort to do but our lifestyle here is so much different and the tendency to rush around and gulp is another big reason for the obesity.

[AngryAmish]

124. People are tiny in manhatten also

Very few people have cars. Easy public transport and all that.

I agree with what you say.

[K8-EEE]

131. I Think The Suburban Lifestyle Is The Most Unhealthy

It's suburbia that's doing us in. It's couch-to-car-to-cubicle, back to couch, with a lot of fast food thrown in the commute. I noticed too that Manhattanites seem more fit than their suburban counterparts. As the working ranches and farms get bought out more and more by sprawling 'burbs we are going to get more and more unhealthy.

[JNelson6563]

92. Eating less and excersize

profits no one but benefits you greatly.

[snooper2]

108. There was a GREAT piece in the movie as well..

Some guy was talking about a scenario where a non-smoker comes up to a smoker and says, oh my god, you know what your doing to yourself, you should quit, and chastizes him, and it is all perfectly acceptable....

On the other hand, it's not "P.C." these days for the same guy to come to the table and see a 300 pound woman and say, oh my god, you know what your doing to yourself? You should put down the cookie, eat a salad, and take a walk instead of desert...

[OKthatsIT]

14. Come on...how does a phone, llifevest or magazine take up space?

this is a service cutbak to save money.

[kiraboo]

16. I believe it's an issue of weight, not space. n/t

[OKthatsIT]

23. uh huh...ok

[SemiCharmedQuark]

32. Yeah...those 10 pound magazines...whew...

[architect359]

44. Actually it's true

I'm not sure as the to extent of the removal, i.e., just the vests or does in also include the under seat vest housing and associated fasteners. However, on those planes that still have vests and assuming that they remove everything, it can total up to quite a lot. Does anyone know how much each vest weigh? I'll assume a pound (seems more though). Planes carry over a hundred seats - that's over 100 pounds, no? If they elect to remove any of the housings, that'll be a bit more. Add to that the back of seat phones whichs weighs, say 1/2 lbs or more each, multiply that again by over a hundred seats. Figure in the magazines and any complimentary newspapers. It'll add up pretty quick. It does seem to be penny pinching but when it comes to flying, a few pounds here and there makes a difference.

This is a bit of a ramble but sort of connected to this whole flight weight calculation topic. When I was a kid, I read that some airplanes opted to either forgo or use minimal paint for their planes because of financial reasons and also for weight. It didn't occur to me the weight significance until I experienced what a can of paint weighs and how much surface it actually covers in relation to the whole plane.

[The Jacobin]

18. At 6' 4"

I tower over the vast majority of the British Guardian readers. My broad shoulders helped me be a champion butterfly swimmer in high school.

It ain't the weight -- its the size that is uncomfortable in a plane.

In the past, with a 70%-80% plane load, I would usually find an empty seat next to me. No longer. Fortunally, I fly much less now, but it is much harder to find an empty seat next to me now.

[Gemini Cat]

19. What a bag of crap.

Make the seats larger for everyone. I am a generally thin person, and I find the seats to be too small.

I used to fly all the time and not once did a so called obese person make me feel uncomfortable. This is bullshit.

[LeftyMom]

69. agreed

I find airplane seats cramped and I'm all of 5'3" and height/weight proportionate. By comparison, most auto seats are made for people larger than me.

Sure, some people are too large for thier own good and thier neighbor's comfort, but the seats in coach are too small for nearly any adult. It's not only uncomfortable, it's dangerous because when you're cramped in your seat with no room to stretch and move a bit or walk the aisle you can get blood clots in your extremities.

[Spinzonner]

20. Obviously, the Intelligent Designer wasn't intelligent enough

to keep this problem in mind.

Now if we had detachable, rearrangeable parts ...

[phylny]

24. I'll guess the Intelligent Designer

didn't really want us eating High Fructose corn syrup ;)

[fortyfeetunder]

21. It's not just the pork

It's also these lunatics who insist on carrying their homes in those carry-on suitcases aboard the aircraft. Come to think of it, the overhead storage has weight limits, but I have yet to see someone's carry-on luggage being weighed...but then I don't travel much.

[SoCalDem]

25. Flying USED to be fun, and the seats were ROOMY

from coach class 727


southwest NOW.. 6 across instead of 4 across..



Braniff had 6 across..but look how much more comfy the seats were..This was probably a DC10 or L1011

[Hekate]

27. And that's the truth! At 5'4" I am not a huge person...

...even with some middle-aged weight added. I'm not enormous!

So why, on one of my flights this summer, was I squashed against the window on one side, pressing against the woman next to me on the other, and praying the person in front of me wouldn't tilt their seat back?

THAT situation had nothing to do with the obesity epidemic. I felt claustrophobic, and reflected that for a bigger person -- such as the 6'4" swimmer in a previous post -- it must be nightmarish.

Seating on airplanes used to be MUCH more generous. Adding rows of seats meant adding pounds of humanity, and even if all those people were anorexic they would still add up to a lot more weight per flight than used to be the case when there were wider seats, more leg room, and thus fewer passengers.

Yeah, blame it on fat people. Their shame will kick in and they won't fight back.

Hekate

[SoCalDem]

28. I AM overweight, and let me TELL you a nonstop to Tahiti

was NO picnic..I was happy to sleep most of the time..

[Hekate]

26. What life vests? I thought we were supposed to use our seat cushions...

...such as they are. Last few years even those've been pretty flat: I can feel the chair frame.

We all know about the obesity epidemic. But the more I read about the research into its causes the more I believe it's not entirely our fault. Food has been commodified -- fast food especially -- and it's not about feeding people meals and groceries anymore, it's about "pushing product" in any way possible. And if you don't think this works, just consider Big Tobacco and the success of their advertising for an unnecessary product that definitely kills.

Corporate culture disgusts me. There's no conscience, no sense of responsibility for the consequences of their actions...

Airlines aren't the only ones -- hospitals are being forced to invest in super-sized equipment: lifts, wheel chairs, gurneys, beds, and operating tables.

Hekate

[entanglement]

59. How about a bit of personal responsibility and healthy eating?

I agree that food has been commodified and corporations are out to make a buck any way they can, but people can still make sensible dietary choices and lead healthier lives (As an aside, I would fully support severe penalties against the fast food industry if it was found they behaved in a criminal manner like big tobacco)

[Hekate]

75. The AIRLINES have SHRUNK passenger space in my lifetime

Put the responsibility for that where it belongs, please.

Aside from that, the personal responsibility line only goes so far. I stand by the research that's been done into the pushing of junk food, including soda-vending machines in high schools. Soda sales have become a major source of funds for cash-strapped schools, which is a really disgusting turn of events, as carbonated beverages not only replace sources of calcium and vitamins but actively rot teeth and leach calcium from growing bones.

We live in a very judgmental culture, full of severely mixed messages. "Be reed thin" and "Eat at Carl's Jr" are mutually exclusive. And anyone who is not model-thin is shamed at every turn.

I just got back from Salt Lake City (I live in California) and I have never in my life seen so many breathtakingly morbidly obese people (including teens) as I did while waiting for my mom to get out of heart surgery and later visiting her in the hospital. What goes on to a greater degree in SLC that doesn't in California -- or at least not in my small slice of it? I honestly don't know. But my guess is that there's something wrong in the culture. And that shaming people is not the answer.

And remember: it's not the passengers' fault that the airlines have drastically shrunk passenger space over the years in an effort to maximize profits. If they point the finger at fat/overweight/obese people, consider what the airlines themselves have done to add to the problem.

[Doremus]

29. Is this info from the same folks who've been claiming for years

that obesity is so detrimental, but were shown to be inflating their numbers on purpose?

I've no doubt that Americans have put on some weight on average, but I'd venture that it has more to do with the aging of the baby boomers than any other factor.

[tblue37]

55. No, we really are getting fatter.

Even little kids are fat in the US, so that can't be blamed on baby boomers packing on middle-age weight.

[Rich Hunt]

74. I'm wondering about that...

I'm from Chicago, where this story is allegedly based, and I don't see a whole lot of really large people on the planes.

People who are really heavy are usually poorer. There are usually fewer of them in cities.

This is just more "Americans are fat" Euro-snobbery.

[FlashHarry]

39. It's more about seat pitch

The distance between your seat back and the one in front of you. I'm 6' tall. When I fly, my knees are jammed into the seat in front of me. I've flown since I was a baby. I remember, not that long ago, seat pitch was greater and you got metal cutlery and porcelain dishes with your (free) inflight meal. No longer, baby.

However, I will say that flying is a whole lot cheaper now than it was ten or fifteen years ago. When I was in college (late 80s, early 90s), I used to fly home to Switzerland twice a year from Iowa. In those days, it typically cost around $1,000 for a round-trip ticket. Now, I can fly home for around $750 or so (depending on the season). Those are non-adjusted numbers, by the way.

We can't have our cake and eat it, too. If we want cheap flights, the airlines have to cut costs, and I'd personally rather they cut costs on amenities than on, say, maintenance.


Oh, and Americans are definitely getting fatter. :)

[Stil]

76. Ditto

On the leg room, also for me the seat size is a problem. But not because my buns don't fit. I just can't sit up straight next to someone with out leaning on them. My shoulders overlap each side. So unless I cut off a arm and my feet. I don't fit. I have to get in the window or aisle seat. Then I get to lean to one side the entire time.

[Ezlivin]

40. I was so skinny my parents saved money by having me ride

On the armrest between the seats.

My sister was in the carry-on luggage.

[loudsue]

52. lol!

:rofl: That's pretty skinny!

[ninkasi]

45. I have flown only a few times in my life

However, the times I did, I found the seats to be too small, and uncomfortable. I am a size 6 or 8, and 5' 4", so at my age, 62, I don't think I'm considered fat. The seats are too small, and as another poster noted, it's the leg room that's the problem.

I'm not particularly tall, but my legs felt cramped, and it was hard to get comfortable. For tall, or large people, flying must be hell. If I do ever fly again, however, if somebody is complaining because they have to sit next to a "fat person", I'll trade seats with them. That person's weight doesn't mean that they have any less value as a human being, and I just might meet somebody I enjoy talking to, if they are inclined to talk.

My cousin, who is like a sister to me, is fat, and I have seen her anguish at the ridicule and rejection she has faced all of her life. Sometimes, people who are insecure overeat, instead of taking drugs or abusing alcohol. I can see both points of view, however, and each is entitled to his own opinion. I just hate to see people viewed as less than worthy because of their weight .

[H5N1]

46. what a wonderful post!

[annabanana]

58. Thak you ninkasi..

I wish more people had your generous spirit.

[Endangered Specie]

85. Your post is appreciated

:hug:

[Nigel_Tufnel]

54. the lack of compassion in some of these replies is astounding

must be great to be perfect

wish i was

[NurseLefty]

73. I Agree. Blaming the Victim - How Progressive

Nigel,
I'm with you on this one. I am blown away by the hating going on in this thread. Overweight people are the one group left in our society who are open game to epithets and dehumanizing.
For anyone who is not overweight who thinks fat people are all just lazy slobs who make your life inconvenient, (1) how a person becomes overweight is not as simple as you think, and (2) if an overweight person could change his/her situation, most would wholeheartedly, as evidenced by the BILLIONS spent on the diet and fitness industries. Please bear in mind that 90 PERCENT of all diets fail, so once a person has the weight, the odds are stacked against them. The whys and wherefores of this problem could take hours and pages to discuss. Besides, no one can deny that airlines have crammed more seats on their planes, obesity epidemic or not.
If the haters on this thread could live a day in an overweight person's shoes, perhaps you would have more empathy. C'mon, you're a progressive - you're capable of that, correct?

(BTW, love the name, Nigel - turn it up to eleven! :headbang: )

[salcero]

77. Diets fail because...

Please bear in mind that 90 PERCENT of all diets fail, so once a person has the weight, the odds are stacked against them.



The reason that 90% of diets fail is because there is no such thing as a diet. There is only a complete and permanent lifestyle change.

I've been overweight myself by about 60 pounds. It all boiled down to eating far larger portions that I should have been, and tons of crap like trans-fats and stuff packed with high fructose corn syrup. While I didn't work out daily or anything, I did still take daily walks and stuff. But there was simply no amount of exercise that could make up for the amount of crap I was ingesting. I would have no problem eating a whole bag of Doritos or a whole package of cookies in a single sitting. It would take hours and hours and hours of exercise to make up for that. And I did it day after day after day.

People fail on diets because they intend to go on them until they lose the weight and then what? They don't go into it intending to make a permanent lifestyle change. A smoker, alcoholic, or drug addict can't just go through treatment for awhile until they've stopped using the drug. They have to change everything so that they never go back to the problem.

[Endangered Specie]

82. Because of this thread...

Im going to make it a point to find the snobbier "holier than thow" skinny assholes, (you can spot em easy), sit next to them, and do my best to make their flight miserable.

Fight back

[Skittles]

91. I know what you mean,, Nigel

I have on occasion sat next to extremely obese people on planes - know what I thought? How despite my discomfort at the end of the flight I could just walk away - that person with the extra weight could not do that - they carried that weight all the time. I've never been overweight but I've refrained from fat-bashing because I can imagine one of those people saying something like I DON'T UNDERSTAND PEOPLE WHO STRUGGLE WITH NICOTINE; WHY DO THEY KEEP WANTING CIGARETTES (that would be me :o)

[K8-EEE]

134. Yes...! We All Have Our Burdens.

Some are just more visible than others -- it's so much better to help & understand each other than to be mean-spirited.

[K8-EEE]

133. How Old Are The Fat Bashers On This Thread, I Wonder?

There's really only a couple of posters who have been really rude to the point of mean -- I hope they are very young and their life's experiences will ultimately make them more compassionate.

[dejaboutique]

56. what about it

while I agree that sitting next to an overweight person has its disadvantages what about screaming kids, a woman whoes perfume makes my nose run, a person with really bad breath, a drunk person, a dirty old man hitting on me, an annoying blabber box, a person that must use the can 7 times during the flight? what about these people. flying in general sucks - fly first class then you won't have anything to complain about.

[pimpbot]

67. Screaming kids dont take up my real estate

My ticket gives me a seat on the plane. Thats the area between the armrests (we can argue over who gets the armrest some other time). If you cannot fit your body within the armrests, then you need two seats. Some people might only need 1.2 seats, but thats not my problem. I don't see how this is so difficult. I'm not trying to make fun of anyone. I agree the seats are small, but take it up with the airline, not me in the seat next to you.

My ticket does not garuntee a quiet flight. I hate screaming kids too, but if they have a ticket (or whatever the rule is about infants), they have the right to be on that plane.

How would you people like it if I decided to lay sideways and poke my elbows into you the whole flight? Put my head on your shoulders? I know I wouldn't like it. So please, stay in your seat and I'll stay in mine.

[fujiyama]

71. What's undeniable

is that the airlines have tried stuffing more and more people in planes.

But at the same time, Americans ARE getting fatter. It's unfortunate and it's unhealthy in more ways than one. To claim it's some sort of conspiracy by the medical profession and others that people are putting on more weight shows a serious sense of denial. Hell, it's not just Americans at this point. People in Asia are getting fatter too. I remember watching a special once on obesity in China with the new found wealth there. Also being the case that many are single children due to the one child policy, many of them are spoilt and are given whatever junk food they want.

But anyways regarding airline seats, either the airlines have to install larger seats and/or cut down the number of passengers per flight (both of which are very unlikely to happen with rising has prices), or those that take up more than their allocated space of one seat should be forced to pay more.

[Endangered Specie]

84. Another thing is people carrying more luggage than they used too

people need to learn to pack LIGHTER. Im a big guy but I can fit 5 days worths of clothes in one moderate size suit case. Which is usually 2/3 or half of what others carry :eyes:

[northzax]

102. I notice that Southwest

which I flew this weekend, now charges for any baggage over 50lbs, cumulative, per ticket. and they enforce it.

Look, I'm 6'6", and I can fit into few airline seats, the long way. So I know which airlines have seats that will fit me, and which don't. For Southwest, I can usually show up early enough to get a bulkhead or exit row seat, otherwise I, quite literally have to put my legs into the aisle. The seats come up to the middle of my shoulders, so no sleeping either. I can't fly Delta, the seats are too small. I can't fly Virgin, or in general any 747. So I generally have fewer options, but I know that, and I am willing to pay for legroom, so as not to infringe on the people around me.

I did have the other weekend a very obese woman who was spreading into my seat. I couldn't put the armrest down, which meant I couldn't change the station on the headset for the movie, plus I had another person pressed against me for five hours. I get to LA with a sweaty shirt and pant leg from constant contact with another person. Anytime she shifted, I was disturbed, I could not sit in my assigned seat without touching her. I find that offensive, it's touching my body without my permission, for an extended period of time. If I am willing to pay more to avoid inconveniencing other passengers by invading their space, why not others?

And, yes, by the way, I have been removed from plans due to an inability to fit into the seat, vertically. Quantas removed me from the a flight from Sydney to LA because, due to a mixup by them, I ended up in a middle seat, unable to put my feet on the floor. No one would trade an aisle or bulkhead, obviously, and the flight was full, so they put me up in a hotel, gave me a per diem and got me on the next morning's flight, business class. it was nice.

[Endangered Specie]

86. While there at it, they need to take reclining OUT of seats

and fucker who reclines on me is gonna get a helluva bumpy ride. At 6 foot 1 and 300lbs I can (barely) squeeze into the smallest of airline seats (I often take the window seat, which gives more room to lean against the window), though if the seats are reclined I get my knees jammed. :mad:

[cascadiance]

90. It's more of a matter of designing seats for humans, not hobbits!

I'm not trim, but I'm certainly not obese either, and I tell you, just two days ago I had one of the worst space cramped flights I'd ever been on on a United 757. I hadn't had any sleep the night before, and there still was no way I could get any sleep with the cramped legs I had the whole flight. Even on the larger Airbus I flew on right afterward which had a bit more space, the guy behind me bitched and moaned if I tried to recline my seat at all of his leg room, and therefore I still couldn't get a decent sleep on that flight either.

Hoping that my return flights on 737's tomorrow won't be as bad. At least I'll probably be a bit better rested than before!

And if you say it's more about "weight" than space, well sure BOTH are true. If they try to maximize the number of passengers they pack into a small space, it doesn't matter if those folks are overweight or average weight, the more people they pack in, the more weight they are going to have on that plane. They are simply trying to cramp people way too much!

[mccoyn]

94. Why not make different seats?

I don't fly much, but I do take the city bus a lot. Every seat on those buses are different. The ones in front are wide open. The ones in the middle are narrow rows of seats, with different amounts of space between each one. The ones in back are sideways seats that could carry 3 large people or 5 small people or any mix in between. When I get on the bus I find an available seat that will accomidate my 5-11 wide frame and take it. Smaller people take the available seats where they can fit and none of us has to pay extra to remain comfortable.

[northzax]

103. by the way, do the lifevests really do anything?

let's be honest here, an aluminum can hitting water at 500 knots? they might float to the surface to identify the area the plane went down, but they ain't helping you.

[gulfcoastliberal]

104. Don't fat people float?

They don't need no stinkkin lifevests. Besides, what's a lifevest gonna do when you hit water at 300-500mph? Alot of good it did those on that doomed Swissair flight that crash off Nova Scotia. When you hit surfaces at those speeds, the body disintegrates.

grammer edit

[Megahurtz]

126. Lol!!!

:D

[Nihil]

110. Well, all those fit fat flyers should just give them back ...

... and we'll say no more about it, right?

[Codeine]

113. LOL! nt

[rocktivity]

116. TORO TURD!!!

Americans have put on so much weight that airlines have removed
I'm five foot six, 150 pounds, and I can't fit in an airplane seat comfortably! The seats are too small for everyone--why don't the airlines remove more of THEM!!!!!

:headbang:
rocknation

[rocktivity]

117. Dupe, sorry n/t

.

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pimpbot]

122. I can't speak for all the posters but...

I dont see how asking that your personal space not be invaded is being discriminatory towards obese people. If you cant fit into a seat and think its too small, take it up with the airline.

[Norquist Nemesis]

128. It's not too different from a person asking their personal space

not be invaded by the smell of a black or an Arab then now, is it?

Or how about the cooties of a gay sitting next to a straight person?

I can understand people not wanting to be smooshed. But has anyone considered the smoosher is not oblivious to doing it and feels a sense of shame about it?

We all encounter things in our lives that make us uncomfortable. That some people refuse to be accommodating or tolerant for a few hours on flight just seems to me a selfish thing.

[mudderfudder77]

125. Non one is telling fat people

No one is telling fat people they can't fly, only that they should pay for the space they use. If you use two seats - pay for two seats.

I'm 6'7" and 285 pounds and I spend the entire flight trying to compact myself into as small a package as possible so that I don't take up someone elses room. It's common courtesy, they paid for that space so even if they are not using all of it - it is still their space. This isn't heartless, and you can lower the discrimination flag because this aint it. It's about paying for a product and getting what you pay for.

[pimpbot]

130. Exactly!!

And.. thank you for trying to compact. I know its not easy in the space they give you these days.

[smirkymonkey]

119. I have the best idea of all....

Free nitrous oxide for all passengers - fat, thin, tall, short - so that everyone can just pass out for the duration of the flight and nothing will bother anybody.

[AngryAmish]

127. Best idea in 20 years

[AlCzervik]

129. You win, thats an excellent idea!

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[K8-EEE]

135. Not Really

There are lots of very economical ways to gain weight (spaghetti, bacon, bread, cereal, ice cream etc.) not to mention the 99 cent food at the fast food places.

When I was poorest, I really gained weight! I ate a lot of cheese and bread and junky food, I used to go to happy hours and eat that stuff, if somebody bought me a drink it was like, free dinner!

[Moderator]

136. Lock

This thread has run it's course. It is no longer breaking news ( if it ever was in the first place)