Iraqis: Constitution Will Beat Deadline

[Rhiannon12866]

Aug 13, 12:57 PM EDT

By SAMEER N. YACOUB
Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- Iraqi leaders rushing to finish a constitution Saturday reported tentative agreements on distribution of oil wealth and other issues, but there was no deal on the main obstacle: federalism.

President Jalal Talabani predicted the constitution would be submitted to the National Assembly on Sunday - one day before the deadline for parliamentary approval.

But some committee members said serious divisions remained among the Shiite Muslim, Sunni Arab and Kurdish leaders, particularly on the question of whether Iraq should be transformed into a federated system of government. Sunnis fear such a move could lead to the breakup of the country.

Talabani acknowledged negotiations continued.

"The meetings are still going on and we have gone forward," he told reporters Saturday. "There is a meeting today and another meeting tomorrow and, God willing, we will finish the job tomorrow."

Talabani said negotiators were concentrating on the question of a federated state comprising Shiite Muslim areas of central and southern Iraq, as well as the role of Islam in laws.

Earlier, committee members said the remaining stumbling blocks were federalism, the role of Shiite clergy, dual nationality and a description of Saddam Hussein's Baath party. Even the formal name of the country kept going through last minute modifications.

U.S. officials hope adoption of a constitution and expansion of democracy will deflate support for the insurgency gripping Iraq.

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/IRAQ?SITE=NYSTA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2005-08-13-12-57-43

[TheFarseer]

1. Did the framers of our constitution have a deadline?

I think not. This isn't a NHL lockout and we've got to beat the clock so we can save the season! The only thing we don't have a deadline for is to get our troops out. Let's train that Iraqi army and get the heck out.

[Rhiannon12866]

4. No, they didn't. And it took them four years.

Our forefathers were all pretty much on the same page, and comprised of many brilliant minds. The Iraqi factions involved in this have been at odds, sworn enemies who had been killing each other for hundreds of years. It's totally amazing that they are even able to occupy the same room. Yet they are expected to come to an agreement in such a short time. That they have managed to accomplish what they already have is pretty much a miracle!
:wow:

And I agree that we should get our troops out. It's long past time that we are able to do any good there. As long as we are seen as occupying their country, the hatred and insurgency will only continue to grow, and the violence will continue to increase. We should not set a deadline, but get our troops out and bring NATO and U.N. peacekeepers in, to keep some kind of order until the Iraqi people are capable of governing themselves. By the numbers who showed up to vote, despite the dangers, they showed the world how much they want to have their own government. We need to get out and give them a chance.;(

[mbperrin]

16. And that was after it took a decade to realize the first try (Articles

of Confederation) weren't going to work!

[Rhiannon12866]

20. Yup! And it's STILL a work in progress, especially according to Bush*!

:grr:

[stepnw1f]

2. lol (nt)

[karlrschneider]

3. I will believe that when (if) I see it...

:eyes:

[truthisfreedom]

5. the idea that a country's foundation has to fit bush's political schedule

is heartbreaking and sickening.

[Rhiannon12866]

7. It sure is. These people are fighting for their country, their way of life

I was vehemently against the war and continue to be against the occupation. But if we are able to make one good thing come out of all this chaos and bloodshed, it should be to give the Iraqis back their country. They do deserve freedom, after hundreds of years, and that includes freedom from us!!!:grr:

This is not about Bush* or his "mission." He is irrelevant to what the Iraqi people want and he certainly has no understanding of them or their needs. He had no idea that there were even factions in Iraq, Sunnis, Sh'ia and Kurds! This is about giving Iraq back to the Iraqis. After all that they have endured in their history, and certainly in the last 2 1/2 years, they deserve no less. It is both heartbreaking and sickening that Bush*, who has no clue and no compassion, would use their one chance to further his political agenda! We need to get out and leave them to it. It is their country, not ours and certainly not Bush*'s!:grr:

[acmavm]

6. What good is a Constitution going to do these people? I mean really.

They are right in the middle of a civil war (IMO). The Kurds and some of the Shi'ites want a federalist government. The rest of the Shi'ites want a government that rules based on Islam (and not the good kind of Islam, they way it was meant to be). Our puppets want to retain power so that western powers can rape the place (no pun on Abu Graib), and the Sunnis? I give up. I don't know what they want anymore.

Yeah, a Constitution will do these people a hell of a lot of good.

[Rhiannon12866]

8. If they ever can manage to agree on one, it could do them a lot of good.

That the various warring factions have even managed to occupy the same room to attempt to hammer this out should be seen as nothing short of a miracle. The point is whether they all want this badly enough to make the compromises necessary to make this work. Based on the fact that so many turned out to vote, despite the horrific danger, I think they do.

And it's not civil war yet, close, but not quite. The chief problem, as I see it, is the continued presence of the Americans. It's absolutely true that the various groups all want different things from their new government, but they're united on one thing, they want the U.S. occupiers out. Until that happens, the growing insurgency and escalating violence will make any move towards normalcy pretty much impossible.

A constitution? A pretty tall order, agreed. But, IMHO, the fact that these diverse people are continuing to work on one, despite the chaos and setbacks, can only be seen as a good sign in an otherwise very bad and hopeless situation.:shrug:

on edit: yet an even more recent news story addresses exactly what you spoke of, as well as my belief that the American occupation, and resulting violence, is making an impossible situation even more impossible...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1699003&mesg_id=1699324

[Rhiannon12866]

9. The latest on this: Iraqis Vow to Finish Constitution

By BASSEM MROUE, Associated Press Writer
23 minutes ago

BAGHDAD, Iraq - American and U.N. diplomats stepped up pressure Saturday on Sunni Arabs to accept a new constitution with only two days before the deadline for its approval. A top Sunni official said his group would never accept terms that would lead to the division of the country.

President Jalal Talabani predicted a draft constitution will be ready by Monday's deadline, and a Kurdish official said the draft would be presented to parliament with or without Sunni approval.

With time running out, U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad and U.N. envoy Ashraf Qazi met separately with Sunni leaders but failed to persuade them to accept a federal system.

"We will not be subdued and will continue to cling to our stance," Sunni negotiator Kamal Hamdoun said. "We don't accept federalism ... We don't want federalism. We are confident that federalism means division and federalism cannot be approved at this time."

The final negotiations on the document — a key part of the political process the U.S. is counting on to curb a Sunni-dominated insurgency — took place against the backdrop of continuing violence.

Bombs and gunfights killed at least 12 people, and a U.S. armored vehicle was set ablaze in eastern Baghdad. No American casualties were reported.

In his weekly radio address, President Bush said Saturday that the Iraqi constitution "is a critical step on the path to Iraqi self-reliance."

Talabani told reporters that negotiations were concentrating on the question of whether to transform Iraq into a federal system and the role of Islam. Sunnis have accepted the 14-year-old Kurdish self-ruled area in the north but do not want to see the system repeated elsewhere.

"We have gone forward," Talabani said. "There is a meeting today and another meeting tomorrow and God willing we will finish the job tomorrow" — one day ahead of the deadline for parliament to approve the charter.

http://p215.news.mud.yahoo.com/s/ap/iraq;_ylt=A0SOwkgGx_1CTWwBexpX6GMA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

[Rhiannon12866]

10. Iraq constitution talks go into final day, maybe

By Alastair Macdonald

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraq's leaders wrangled over limits on regional autonomy on what could be the final day of negotiations on a new constitution as expectations rose that they would meet a Monday deadline to clinch a deal.

Parliament was summoned to special sitting on Monday evening and several negotiators said it was likely the National Assembly would be able to start its review of the new charter right away.

"At this meeting (of parliament), we expect the draft constitution will be delivered," Nasser al-Awadi, a Sunni Arab member of the constitutional drafting committee, told Reuters.

Lawmakers were summoned for 6 p.m. (1400 GMT) on Monday.

Bahaa al-Araji, a leading Shi'ite member of the committee, also said the constitution would be ready to be presented to parliament by the August 15 deadline, although talks chaired by President Jalal Talabani were resuming on Sunday evening.

The main sticking point has been arguments over the extent of regional autonomy, particularly for Kurds and Shi'ites, as well as Shi'ite demands for a bigger role for Islam in the law.


http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-08-14T131031Z_01_EIC242081_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-IRAQ-DC.XML

[SoCalDem]

11. Of course it will,,

*² as much as threw up his hands and said.. "Hey, WHATEVER"..

This war's not so much fun anymore, what with all the criticism...so he'll just wash his hands of Iraq, change one letter ("May I have an 'n', Alex?"...and let the ungrateful EYE-rackies clean up the gigantic mess we made..

He'll be too busy planning the nooQueLur attack on those EyeRanees..

He's like a petulant toddler who loses interest in an expensive toy he begged for...and then goes to unload Mom's kitchen cabinets & play with the pots and pans.

[suston96]

12. New constitution?

They can have ours.

"We ain't using it."

(I think Bill Maher said that).

[Rhiannon12866]

19. Excellent point, my friend...

As was said on another post, well over two years ago, who among the "liberal media"-watching American public is going to notice or care about the change of one letter?! This part of the world remains beneath their radar screens.:-(

BTW, I love your sig, LOL!:D Reminds me of my all-time favorite Carol Burnett sketch, only with political overtones...:evilgrin:

[Rhiannon12866]

13. More bad news: Six U.S. Soldiers Killed in Iraq Bombings

Aug 14, 1:36 PM EDT

By ANTONIO CASTANEDA
Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- Six U.S. soldiers died in roadside bombings and a shooting, the military said Sunday, as lawmakers rushed to persuade Sunni Arabs to accept federalism provisions in the draft constitution that is due in one day.

With intense negotiations continuing just hours before parliament was to ratify the charter, one Shiite legislator, Jawad al-Maliki, told The Associated Press that the deadline might have to be extended.

"If we don't reach an agreement today, we might amend the interim constitution and extend the deadline by a minimum of two weeks," he said.

However, U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad said the document was on track to be finished on time.

"The Iraqis tell me that they can finish it and they will finish it tomorrow," said Khalilzad in a televised interview." "There are options, obviously, should they need it, but at this point, my information is - and I've just come from a meeting with the Iraqi leaders -that they intend to finish it tomorrow."

Amendments to the country's current charter can be made only with the approval of three-fourths of parliament and unanimous approval of the president and his two deputies. Parliament announced that their next meeting would be Monday at 6 p.m. local time (10 a.m. EDT).

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/IRAQ_SOLDIERS_KILLED?SITE=NYSTA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2005-08-14-08-48-47

[Solly Mack]

14. yeah, about as much as voting did

"U.S. officials hope adoption of a constitution and expansion of democracy will deflate support for the insurgency gripping Iraq."

[Rhiannon12866]

18. What someone needs to knock into the thick skulls of this administration

is that Iraqis don't want their friggin' democracy!!! When will they get this?! They come from a completely different place and this means nothing to them! They have their own values, their own beliefs and their own agenda. And, as for what they want: they want electricity, running water, trash removal, decent medical care and medicine, an education for their children and jobs! Not to mention, not getting shot, bombed, blown up or thrown into prison just for leaving their houses (or not!). If we could deliver on those, maybe democracy would stand a chance, but I still don't think so. The best we could do, even if we could guarantee what they want and need, is that they wouldn't hate us quite so much!:shrug:

[leesa]

15. And it will be completely meaningless.

[NeoConsSuck]

17. distribution of oil wealth ?

wasn't that decided long ago by their liberator, Paul Bremer?

[Rhiannon12866]

21. Actually, this is also at the crux of the problem, no big surprise...

There is talk of dividing the country into regions, which makes sense as the three populations involved have completely differing beliefs and agendas (unknown to Bush* before he made his plans to invade). However, there are vast deposits of oil both in the North, where the Kurds reside, and in the South, which is mainly populated by the Sh'ia. However, in Central Iraq, in Baghdad, where the majority of Sunnis live, there is no oil. So even the Iraqis, themselves, are being motivated by the question of who gets control of the oil reserves.:shrug: