Income Determines Level of Happiness

[AlphaCentauri]

Can money buy happiness? Researchers believe those with more money tend to be happier, and say your level of happiness depends upon how much money your peers make.

Glenn Firebaugh, Ph.D, a sociological researcher from Pennsylvania State University in University Park and graduate student Laura Tach from Harvard University in Boston compared whether the effect income has on your happiness stems from the material things money can buy, absolute income effect, or from comparing your income to that of another, relative income effect. While researchers found both absolute and relative income are important, relative was more prevalent in determining one's happiness.

"If income effects are entirely relative, then continued income growth in rich countries today is relevant to how happy people are on the whole," Dr. Firebaugh says. "Rather than promoting overall happiness, continued income growth could promote an ongoing consumption race where individuals consume more and more just to maintain a constant level of happiness."

http://www.ivanhoe.com/channels/p_channelstory.cfm?storyid=11893

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-he-capsule15aug15,0,5952455.story?coll=la-home-health

[bleedingheart]

1. Duh!....

for years the rich have told the poor...."money doesn't bring happiness"...as some sort of way to soothe those who are without...

However money does make life a lot easier and when life is easier then you have more time for the pursuits that can make you happy....granted not everyone will be "rich" but being "comfortable" would be nice...

[Melodybe]

4. It's not really that money makes you happy, it's more like

not having to worry about paying all your bills makes you happy.

Money problems are one of the main causes of stress in lower income families.

[cbear70]

26. completely agree! n/t

[onehandle]

32. Yep. nt

[MADem]

37. That is it in a nutshell

Money cannot buy happiness, but it sure can rent it!

[Lorien]

51. From my own experience; having money doesn't make you happy, it

only removes money as an issue to be unhappy about. When I earned six figures I still had health and family concerns which caused unhappiness, but no longer struggling with poverty reduced my stress considerably, allowing me to focus on the other issues. Ultimately, my health issues destroyed my finances (along with the * economy) and I found myself facing daily worries about financial ruin once again; that indeed causes unhappiness.

I can honestly say that the only time money ever "bought" me happiness was when I was able to take fairly long vacations abroad, but ultimately I found that the old adage is true; without your health, you have nothing.

[blurp]

6. You miss the point.

However money does make life a lot easier and when life is easier then you have more time for the pursuits that can make you happy....granted not everyone will be "rich" but being "comfortable" would be nice...

The article itself says that your degree of happiness or unhappiness depends on relative income.

It has nothing to do with having more time for pursuits that make you happy. It has to do with how you compare with your peers.

[Lorien]

52. I've found that once you turn off the television

you find that you make far fewer comparisons between yourself and your peers. Studying zen Buddhism helps too.

[SoCalDem]

13. Double Duh!

People who have no problem paying their bills are more likely to sleep better, and enjoy life more..Every person who has had to play "Bill-Payer Roulette", knows how wonderful they would feel if they did not have to count so much on the speed or tardiness of the USPS:)

[LosinIt]

2. It's hard to be happy when you're worried about survival

feeding your family, paying your mortgage/rent, buying gas to get to work if you're lucky enough to still have a job, paying the exorbitant health insurance premiums if you're lucky enough to still have a job, worrying about getting sick and what will happen if you don't have a job, how in the world will you send your kids to college when tuition, even at state schools is sky high and books can cost over $500 a semester. I've given myself a nervous breakdown just writing this post....

[blurp]

7. You miss the point, too

From the article:

"While researchers found both absolute and relative income are important, relative was more prevalent in determining one's happiness."

The point is that happiness is determined more by how you compare yourself to others than it is by absolute income.

So money can't buy you happiness. But having more money than your neighbor can, apparently.

[Roland99]

34. I'll just be happy when I'm not living paycheck-to-paycheck anymore

[Skittles]

3. I am betting it is the level of security one feels as opposed to money

of course, income is a big part of making one feel secure

[blurp]

9. Income or wealth?

of course, income is a big part of making one feel secure

I would say wealth is what makes people feel more secure.

That's not the same as income.

There are plenty of people out there with large incomes and little wealth.

When the money dries up, so will their security.

It's the little old lady that owns her own home and has $1,000,000 in the bank at 3% interest that is secure.

Sure, she only makes $30,000/year, but she's much more secure than the $60,000/year IT guy with a ton of student loans to pay off and no home.

[Skittles]

17. I don't think you necessarily need to be wealthy

I think if you have a job you don't feel like you will lose any second that contributes to happiness, even if your salary is not stellar. LOL however I cannot image ANY IT worker feeling this way, no matter HOW much they make. :o

[NCPatriot]

27. Outsourcing

Not to change the subject - but I couldnt resist!

but she's much more secure than the $60,000/year IT guy with a ton of student loans to pay off and no home.

Not to mention that the IT guy is training an outsourced employee on how to do his job for 40k less!

[BiggJawn]

33. When you're at the bottom of the ladder, income IS your "wealth".

"Sure, she only makes $30,000/year, but she's much more secure than the $60,000/year IT guy with a ton of student loans to pay off and no home."

Oh, come now....
I'll bet the IT guy is really going to regret not having Real Estate when this balloon finally pops and everybody's left holding millions of dollars of paper with nothing to secure it. I hope you're not banking your future on how many houses you think you own right now.

My girlfriend owns her home, and I mean she OWNS it, no mortgage. It needs repairs. She can't afford to pay for the repairs on her income. She'd like to retire in a few years and does not want to retire with a second mortgage or home equity loan payment hanging over her every month.

Ask her, she'll cry in your beer all night about how she doesn't know how she's gonna heat the place this winter. The cat's sick, she needs new windows, how long will the roof last? the car doesn't get as much mileage as the old one did.

I have an apartment and live paycheck to paycheck, too. I don't have the added stress of a house crumbling around my ears to worry about.

Real Estate...PAH!

[genieroze]

5. Oh duh, do ya think?

[shanti]

8. yeah, that's what they'd like us to think

:-(

[tritsofme]

10. My father always told me that money can't buy happiness

But it sure makes a great down payment.

[zalinda]

11. I don't believe it for a minute.

I know too many rich people who get through there days drunk or stoned. These people never seem to be happy, maybe that's why the keep trying to get more money hoping that it will make them happy.

Just take a look at the kind of party rich people throw and then go to a backyard bbq in the neighborhood.......who seems to be happiest. I'd take the bbq any day.

zalinda

[ordinaryaveragegirl]

12. Keeping up with the Joneses...

Does nothing but wear you out. Not to sound like a pessimist, but unless you're Bill Gates, there's always someone out there who has more money than you do. The goal shouldn't be having the $70,000 car and the gigantic house and the designer clothes and the obscenely huge plasma TV. That's not stuff that any of us actually needs! The goal should be investing in things that will appreciate well over time, and pursuing what you feel passionate about. That means an education, a decent home in a safe area, a dependable car, and a steady job with good benefits and good retirement planning. And it also means responsibility - including helping people and causes you care about, and want to give your support to, even if it's just giving your time.

Of course, there are things that aren't in our control...like $3 a gallon for gas, rising interest rates, and a knuckleheaded administration that doesn't look out for all of us normal people. But we have the ability to do what we can with what we have.

[grrl62]

20. keeping up w/ the joneses - exactly

this is a nation of consumers. and people are encouraged and rewarded for consuming. think about the TV shows, esp. MTV/things geared to younger adults. it's all about showing someone's extravagant lifestyle, which is definitely unattainable by most, and sending the message that "if you don't have the things they do, you won't be cool." even regular sitcoms do this w/ the clothing, furniture, vacations, expensive meals, etc. how many "middle class" people do you know that can afford these things AND have enough money left over to put some in saving! the message is that everything is disposable and we are supposed to throw it away when something better comes along. the notion of wearing the same clothing style 2 years in a row - GHASTLY - that is the message.

sure you can attempt to compete w/ the joneses, but most will lose - if not their souls, definitely their savings. i think most people don't take the time to really sit down and understand the messages that are being slammed into their brains on a constant basis. cell phones for instance, i refuse to get one, but i know so many people who refused at first, but then rationalized their behavior.. and now are chained to their phone. the message is YOU NEED THIS. not only do you need this for your basic necessities, but you need this to be likeable, dateable, and mateable.

truly there is very little we need to survive and be happy. we have to be the ones who draw the line and say enough is enough. we have to figure out what makes us happy - truly happy - not just thrive off competing for a reward that does not exist.

stop running the treadmill.

[DBoon]

45. article says rich people with less affluent friends are happiest

so they have the security that comes with a good income, but aren't playing the endless status game

And your point about Bill Gates is absolutely true! I've heard Larry Ellison is obsessed with "only" being the second wealthiest person on earth.

[Trillo]

14. I wonder what the relative income effect says

about those who have withdrawn from the game of seeking happiness? Perhaps they're seeking happiness by not seeking happiness?

[ConcernedCanuk]

15. I disagree

.
.
.

I have known, and am now among the "poor"

If this "reasearched" premise is true

Then the majority of those around me should be ecstatic.!!!

Instead I see many with much more money lamenting they "can't get by" as they drive along in their $30,000 leased vehicle to get home to watch their large screen TV fed by satellite with 200 channels

I see poor people sharing much more than those with more to "give"

Money can't, doesn't buy TRUE happiness

Never did never will

Those that believe that it can belong in Junior's following

That's my Canuk observations anyhoo . .

[Hekate]

16. No Duh: Another Job for Obvious-Man!

Lessee -- enough food, coats and shoes for the kids, no holes in the roof, able to live where the kids can get a good education, not living from paycheck to paycheck, comprehensive health care for the family...

Yep, it's true. Some elements of happiness certainly can be guaranteed by money, because deep financial insecurity is quite wearing on the attitude.

Hekate

[jus_the_facts]

18. more money gives you FREEDOM.....

....if you don't have enough money to do what you WANT TO instead of what you HAVE to...you're not really FREE...PERIOD! :evilfrown:

[GOPNotForMe]

19. Statistics 101: Correlation does not equal causation. Idiot reporter.

[GoBlue]

21. Come again...

"While they did find relative income to have an effect on one's happiness, physical health was the best indicator of happiness.

'If income effects are entirely relative, then continued income growth in rich countries today is relevant to how happy people are on the whole,' Dr. Firebaugh says. 'Rather than promoting overall happiness, continued income growth could promote an ongoing consumption race where individuals consume more and more just to maintain a constant level of happiness.'"

Translation: People who are better-off and not necessarily better people.

[all.of.me]

22. my parents are loaded, and they are miserable

they have not a speck of spirituality in their bodies. they hate everything, except bush, of course... lol

money does not solve problems or make you happy, but i agree, it makes life easier when you are not scrambling for it, like i do.

[ckramer]

23. Look at that web site, you can see the following:

Related Articles in Archives:

* The Pursuit of Happiness -- White Paper
* A Brighter Generation: Smarter Babies -- White Paper
* Child's Behavior Influenced by Family Income
* The Perfect Partner -- White Paper
* Income Level Impacts Diabetic Care
* The Female Sexual Experience -- White Paper
* Cost of Depression
* Cervical Cancer Connected to Income and Education Level

So this whole site is promoting one idea: More money, more happiness, more sex and smarter. No money, you get cancer, depression, and diabetes.

See how this country is heading on a wrong path?

These people (capitalistic pigs) are sick.

[AlphaCentauri]

35. LA Times: related article

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-he-capsule15aug15,0,5952455.story?coll=la-home-health

Happiness in the bank
By Emily Singer, Special to The Times


MONEY might indeed buy you happiness, but only if you have more money than your peers. New research shows that the richer people are compared with others in their age group, the happier they tend to be. "It creates a kind of treadmill of consumption," says Laura Tach, a sociology graduate student at Harvard University who conducted the research. "We earn more money, but so does everyone else." The results of this monetary race seem to affect happiness more than a new car or a bigger house.

[no_hypocrisy]

24. Just b/c you don't have to worry about bankruptcy, health insurance,

necessities, a home, a modicum of consumer debt, and a decent vehicle does not necessarily guarantee happiness.

However, you CAN sleep at night.

[ckramer]

25. I would say money is not going to give you happiness, unless

you use this money to do something good, something that is benefiting the society and others.

Otherwise, the more money you have, the more misarable you will be.

[HuckleB]

28. Perception. Perception. Perception.

The three most important features of modern life.

:eyes:

[rainbow4321]

29. Except in one of the reddest/richest counties in TX

Where high tech jobs have been outsourced and those who were once living high on the hog (in the 1990's) now are dealing with foreclosures and bankruptcies.



http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/longterm/stories/081505dnccowealth.2e6909d.html


• On average, Collin County residents have more credit card debt – $4,200 – and a lower net worth – $125,000 – than residents of other high-income counties throughout the country, according to a Dallas Morning News analysis of various economic indicators, including Claritas Market Audit.

• The average amount due on an auto loan or lease service for Collin residents is about $19,300, highest among a dozen comparison counties.

• Bankruptcies – about 3,500 last year – more than doubled over five years, outpacing all other similar-sized counties nationwide.

• About 3,300 homes were foreclosed upon last year, two-thirds in higher-income neighborhoods.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/081505dnccobuy.8154bd3.html


About 1,000 Collin County addresses are in the database of the wealthiest Americans compiled by the American Affluence Research Center in Miami. The center sells its list to companies catering to high-income households.

Dallas' shine and passion for high-society flair has spread to some of its suburbs. The wealthiest pockets, such as the old money of Highland Park, deserve their well-heeled reputations. Some Collin County buyers might be stretching their credit capacities to keep up, but businesses are targeting the area for its potential.

It's the wealthiest county in Texas and one of the wealthiest in the nation.


For busy families, there are gardeners, nannies and housecleaners. Other businesses will deliver dry cleaning, run errands, plan children's birthday parties and even put up Christmas lights. Labels from Armani to Yves Saint Laurent beckon at the malls, which are ringed by specialty stores.

[maxrandb]

30. No S%&t Sherlock. Like My Dad Used to Say

"Money can't buy you happiness, but you sure can park the yacht awful damn close to it".

[mainer]

31. Or do happy people make more money?

People who love what they do, or enjoy their work, are more likely to be better at it, aren't they? And thus make more money?

It's dangerous to equate correlation with causation.

[Finder]

48. Good point...

and I definitely agree with your comment on causation. I am a Maslow fan and believe we do have to have certain needs met first before we can seriously pursue "happiness", unfortunately too many people do not put their money toward their needs first.

Case in point, someone will complain about being behind on their bills and racking up interest yet will take their income tax check and go shopping for something frivolous to compete with the Joneses.

[htuttle]

36. Money can't buy you love, but you can rent it for a small hourly fee

[Megahurtz]

38. I Wholeheartedly Agree!

Whoever said "Money can't buy happines" is full of shit!!!:thumbsup:

[daleo]

39. An interesting book on this subject is "Choosing the Right Pond"

by Robert H. Frank, an economist. It was written in the mid-80's. Richard Easterlin, another economist with a particular interest in demography, also talks a lot about this. It is an interesting subject.

[FlemingsGhost]

40. Why then, is the wealthiest nation the earth has ever seen ...

so drugged up on anti-depressants?



"I never really knew the blues, until I had money."

--Jimi Hendrix

[Art_from_Ark]

41. I wanna go back to 1968

even though I only had $5 in my piggy bank

[fshrink]

42. "Determines" is unwarranted. "Correlates" would.

As we say, it's better to be wealthy, young and healthy than poor, old and sick...

[WildClarySage]

43. It may or may not buy you happiness, but in America, it can buy you

your health. And healthier people are going to be happier people, by and large.

[Pewlett Hackard]

44. my Level of Happiness

is determined by the speed of my Porsche.

[raccoon]

46. Money can certainly make your life easier and more comfortable

and also, get you better health care, also vision care & dental care.
All 3 of the above are so damned expensive.

I don't think people necessarily have to be rich to be happy, but life certainly is easier if you don't have to be constantly worrying about how you'll pay your rent, car insurance, whatever.

I do agree with the article that some of it's who we're comparing our income to. I have some relatives who, while not in the country club set, attended a church where many of the members were country clubbers. It's apparent to me that this left them with some bitterness.

[caligirl]

47. It makes life better when you have the $ to force schools and other

entities to not DISCRIMINATE against your diabetic child. Some people won't follow the law unless you have MONEY to higher a lawyer to make them respect the law.

In that way money has masde my son's life and ours a better one. All the complaining and educating in the world did nothing. One lawyer visit and some work and things improved.

[Simeon Salus]

49. "They say that money can't buy love in this world,

"But it'll get you a half pound of cocaine,
and a sixteen year old girl
in a big long limousine on a hot September night.
Now that might not be love,
but it's alright"

Randy Newman, "It's Money That I Love"

[Igel]

50. Eh. My personal belief:

meeting and exceeding expectations, assuming basic needs are met. And basic needs are basic indeed.

You expect to be poor, make peace with it, but having kids is what fulfills you (per your culture), you're happy being poor with kids. You expect to be a quadriplegic, and get use of your hands ... you're happy. You expect to be above average, you need to exceed what others are doing. You expect to have a career and happy family, neither a career nor a happy family in isolation works for you.

You're in a house you're paying for, steady but unglamorous job, 2 kids, healthy, you'd expect to be happy, since you're well-off by global standards; but if the house is small or others have much larger ones, your job is deadended, your culture says have lots of kids, you're going to be miserable. The people you compare yourself with may not be your actual peers, but those you *want* to be your peers: hence 'social climbing'.

So I think the researchers are partly right, but I suspect that working out causation requires getting data that's very difficult to get at.