US Troops Hold Children Hostages in Northern Iraq: Police

[bemildred]

US troops held five children as hostages to demand handover of insurgents near a northern Iraqi town on Tuesday, police said.

"The US forces surrounded the village of Mazraa near Baiji and detained five children under 10 years old, calling on the residents by loudspeakers to hand over several other children showed on TV channels celebrating the killing of US soldiers after roadside blast last week," a police source from Baiji told Xinhua on condition of anonymity.

The US troops threatened to sweep the village by Wednesday morning to detain the other children and suspected insurgents, he said.

The US military, however, said they had no information about the incident.

China Broadcast

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. "no information about the incident"

What did you expect?

[High Plains]

2. How heroic of our troops, and probably a war crime, too.

[Gay Green]

35. This is what happens when * doesn't support our troops

and enables them to commit atrocities by waiving the long-established US Gov't policy of adhering to quaint old documents like the Geneva Convention and the US Constitution. :nuke:

[saigon68]

39. FREEDOM IS ON THE MARCH

"SUPPORT THE THUGS err troops" </sarcasm>

[mmonk]

3. I can understand the anger

but I couldn't take it out on the children.

[meganmonkey]

4. That's a great way to win over their hearts and minds

Please let this godforsaken clusterfuck end.

:evilfrown:

[Mistress Quickly]

5. I don't believe this story

I will wait on another source before I blast US troops over this.

[High Plains]

7. Fair enough...

There have been previous reports of US hostage-taking in Iraq, though.

[atreides1]

14. Yes there have

2nd Brigade, 4th ID, took the wife and daughter of an Iraqi general into "custody" in order to get the general to surrender, this was back in 2003.

The unit was hailed as heroes, what does that say about the mindset
of the American public?

[High Plains]

10. The story quotes a local police official...

Will any other media follow-up on it?

And if not, does that mean we should assume it didn't happen?

I hope no one is waiting for a CENTCOM statement to settle this matter. Who ya gonna believe? CENTCOM or Xinhua? Tough call.

[Karenina]

32. THIS is EXACTLY why

the pictures from Abu Ghraib MUST BE MADE PUBLIC. The only ones in denial about the the atrocities American troops are being USED AND ABUSED to commit are Americans.

[saigon68]

49. Pictures showing hairy brutes, raping little boys anuses

They won't put those pics in a coffee table book, now will they?


And chief Bush Lap Dog and Boot-Lick, War Criminal Myers says the Anal Rape photos will cause trouble for his military throughout the world.

[Karenina]

50. Everyone else KNOWS

It's only the fuckin' Amis who need to see the pix. :eyes:

[Wizard777]

24. The CIA kidnaped children from Pakistan to use in questing their father.

He is suspected of being an Al Qaida Operative. They swear the children are not being harmed in any way.

Yet we allow Osama Bin Laden family to waltz right out of America after 9/11. We wouldn't want to harm the corporate relationship between our leader and our enemies. That would be a sin.


:nopity: Poor Salem Bin Laden. He's a former business partner of our President and brother of Osama. He wants to be a film maker. But his brothers Holy War against America is hurting his career. :cry:

:banghead:

[TankLV]

53. Just like the "rumors" of torture and rape of children, right?

After all, our wonderful bushnazi's would NEVER do anything like that, right?

[MidwestTransplant]

6. I take any news from a China publication with a salt mine worth of salt

[Journeyman]

9. Cracks me up. People post crap from Xinhua Net . . .

no matter how outrageous, no matter how many times it's discredited as a source, then have the chutzpah to rail against the propaganda spewed by the MSM.

[bemildred]

11. Xinhua Net is rather good at times.

But certainly no more to be taken at face value than any other source. They all peddle bullshit from time to time.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

29. Does that make the propaganda from the MSM any better? If we....

...can't get accurate reporting from out own press, where are we supposed to go?

[Journeyman]

46. Take a moment and step back from what you just wrote. . .

You don't trust and will not believe the propagandists here in the West, so that makes propagandists from the East an acceptable alternative.

My but that's an amazing feat of intellectual legerdemain.

[StrafingMoose]

51. You're right

they ALL lie, EVERYTHING is a lie. Let's go back to sleep. :sarcasm:

[Dave Reynolds]

8. I'm not ready to believe that,

I hold the opinion that Chinese news is as reliable and factual as our Corporate media.

[rodeodance]

12. oh my gawd--if this true there will hell to pay. past time to get our

troops out of there before more stuff like this happens==real or not the word goes out!!

[Dave Reynolds]

13. Yeah, even if this is bullshit people WILL see it and believe it,

and our kids will be in a bigger world of hurt than they are now.

[Ian David]

19. I'd say as reliable as WorldNet Daily but with different biases. n/t

[Southpaw Bookworm]

30. We've already done it

On a more individual level: Holding the children of a presumed al Qaeda operative to get him to talk, shortly after the invasion of Afghanistan.

[Dave Reynolds]

42. I had not seen that.

But I still doubt the current source.

I am quite amenable to changing my opinion when the news comes from a more reliable source.

[katty]

15. We have sunk so low

[onehandle]

16. China Broadcast? What the Hell is that? nt

[bemildred]

17. Probably evil communists. nt

[Robeson]

18. You do know that there's one hiding behind every rock, don't you?...

...;-)

[Caleb]

20. The source is Xinhua

Which is the official news agency of the Chinese government.

[TX-RAT]

21. A weak attempt, LMAO

[bvar22]

22. The problem is not Xinhua.

The problem is that the US Government has LIED and Covered Up so much about EVERYTHING related to this stupid war that it has NO Credibility left in the World.

The cure for this problem would be open, transparent, independent TRUTHFUL investigations into the abuses, and the punishment of ALL those responsible. Those in our government need to STAND UP and take responsibility, or be held responsible.

When I read the report and saw it was Xinhua, I gave it a 50/50. Xinhua has as much credibility with me as the US Government and our CorpoMedia.

[Enraged_Ape]

23. Hear, hear! It's the LYING. I don't--CAN'T know what to believe.

Until proven otherwise, this story is just as credible as anything we would get from any of our OWN global corporate media. In other words, it has ZERO credibility. Somewhere, sometime, someone's going to have to step up to the plate and give us news we can actually trust. I don't hold my breath for that to happen in my lifetime.

[CarinKaryn]

25. So being Chinese makes you a liar?

They are less reliable than our own shurbco/MSM press releases?

We have been trained to discount them becase they are godless commies. That is just what * wants you to do. You have played right into his hands.

[Robeson]

26. Well, you do have to watch out for those commie heathens....

...who are trying to subvert our children and turn them into baby eating Marxists!!

[bvar22]

28. No, Being Chinese does not make you a LIAR,

being a Government News Agency makes you a LIAR!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

31. Which one of the U. S. government news agencies do YOU trust?....

...You know...news agencies like the Washington Post, the New York Times, and hundreds of others scattered across the country.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

33. Or the government itself?

Considering that federal Web sites have been purged of any publications or other information that does not conform to the party line -- started just after the inauguration and was particularly pronounced at Education, Health and Human Services, and Justice.

[bvar22]

38. Quoting myself from post #22

"When I read the report and saw it was Xinhua, I gave it a 50/50. Xinhua has as much credibility with me as the US Government and our CorpoMedia."

[NNN0LHI]

27. Anyone who doesn't believe this story hasn't been paying attention

http://www.slate.com/id/2105596/

Goodbye, Geneva
It's time to rewrite the laws of war.
By Phillip Carter
Posted Tuesday, Aug. 24, 2004, at 2:19 PM PT


Listen to this story on NPR's Day to Day.



This week, the Pentagon releases two new reports on detainee abuses by American troops. A blue ribbon panel's report released Tuesday concludes that a large cast of senior officers, including Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, contributed to the Abu Ghraib abuses with lax oversight and poor guidance regarding detainee policy. A second report, authored by the Army's intelligence branch, implicates intelligence officers and contractors for taking their interrogations too far. Together, the reports undercut the Bush administration's initial response that these acts were the work of a few rotten soldiers.

These two reports will get all the publicity, but it's two lesser-known studies that should trouble Americans even more. The first report, authored by the Center for Army Lessons Learned at Fort Leavenworth in May 2004, indicates that several American units in Iraq detained wives and children of insurgents in an attempt to make the insurgents turn themselves in or talk while in custody. According to a study by U.S. Army Maj. Christopher Varhola (one of the report's authors), it was also common practice for Americans to "collectively detain ... all males in a given area or village for up to several weeks or months." The collective and family detentions served to "alienate much of the population," Varhola concluded. Such collective detentions played a major role in inflating the Abu Ghraib prison population, to the point where the Red Cross reported that 70 percent to 90 percent of detainees were "arrested by mistake." (Lt. Col. Barry Johnson, an Army spokesman in Baghdad, said there is currently no policy endorsing such detentions, and such past detentions fell outside the bounds of standard operating procedure. But Johnson said such detentions could still occur where family members were personally connected to insurgency activities, and commanders decided it was necessary to detain them.)

A second report, issued this month by the Army's Judge Advocate General School, blames severe troop shortages—especially of military police—for the chaotic and disorganized detainee operations in postwar Iraq. It has been widely reported that the Pentagon failed to effectively plan for postwar Iraq and the failure to quickly put military police and civil affairs troops on the ground after the Saddam Hussein regime's fall contributed to the postwar anarchy that gripped the country for much of 2003. But the JAG report goes much further than that, criticizing decisions to delay the deployment of the 800th Military Police Brigade (the unit responsible for Abu Ghraib) until well after combat had begun. From the moment they touched ground, the 800th MP Brigade was behind the eight ball, and it's not clear that they ever got a handle on the detainee mission.

[NNN0LHI]

34. Where did all the naysayers go I wonder?

<crickets/> n/t

[Gay Green]

36. Thanks for the historic source.

So the incident reported by Xinhua news agency has historical precedent after all - said precedent having been caused by the pRetzeldunce. :argh:

[Igel]

37. Anonimki

(there's a throwback to a different era) were typically considered to be more reliable than witnesses.

One anonimka vs. 2-3 witnesses ... and the anonimka (anonymous accusation) would win. No confronting of accusers needed, or even desirable.

So much for principles.

[NNN0LHI]

40. BBC: US held youngsters at Abu Ghraib Last Updated: Friday, 11 March, 2005

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4339511.stm

Children as young as 11 years old were held at Abu Ghraib, the Iraqi prison at the centre of the US prisoner abuse scandal, official documents reveal.

Brig Gen Janis Karpinski, formerly in charge of the jail, gave details of young people and women held there.

Brig Gen Karpinski, who was in charge at Abu Ghraib from July to November 2003, said she often visited the prison's youngest inmates.

She said in her interview that she thought one boy "looked like he was eight years old".

"He told me he was almost 12," she said. "He told me his brother was there with him, but he really wanted to see his mother, could he please call his mother. He was crying."

She said the military began holding children and women at Abu Ghraib from mid-2003. She did not say what the youngsters had been locked up for.

[lumpy]

44. Looks like all is 'fair in love and war'

and the troops can use their own discretion how they will process the occupation. If they have used children to get at their adversaries, this latest is believeable.

[Gary Boatwright]

41. Chinese state news? Nuff said. I call bullshit!

Anyone who has taken a look at chinese state run media knows you can't expect anything honest regarding America from them. Give me a break!

[NNN0LHI]

43. US government admits its true. See posts #27 and #40 n/t

[TankLV]

54. I will rely on the RECORD of the US - it is ENTIRELY believable.

We have done it countless times before and WORSE, or don't you believe the instances of ANAL RAPE OF LITTLE BOYS either?

[NNN0LHI]

45. WP - U.S. Adopts Aggressive Tactics on Iraqi Fighters; July 28, 2003

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A54345-2003Jul27¬Found=true

Intensified Offensive Leads To Detentions, Intelligence

By Thomas E. Ricks
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, July 28, 2003; Page A01

BAGHDAD -- Over the past six weeks a small but intense war has been conducted in the mud-hut villages and lush palm groves along the Tigris River valley, fought with far different methods than those used in the campaign that toppled president Saddam Hussein.

Col. David Hogg, commander of the 2nd Brigade of the 4th Infantry Division, said tougher methods are being used to gather the intelligence. On Wednesday night, he said, his troops picked up the wife and daughter of an Iraqi lieutenant general. They left a note: "If you want your family released, turn yourself in." Such tactics are justified, he said, because, "It's an intelligence operation with detainees, and these people have info." They would have been released in due course, he added later.

The tactic worked. On Friday, Hogg said, the lieutenant general appeared at the front gate of the U.S. base and surrendered.

[NYC]

48. I remember when that was reported.

I thought taking family members hostage was a war crime.

[burrowowl]

47. Geneva Conventions!

Geneva Conventions!
Damn Bu$hCo to hell and hopefully in an earthly prison with solidarity confinement!

[TankLV]

52. The US military is NOT EXACTLY LIKE THE NAZI's!

So stop saying that!

NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's NAZI's