World running out of time for oil alternatives

[Placebo]

The world could run out of time to develop cleaner alternatives to oil and other fossil fuels before depletion drives prices through the roof, a leading Dutch energy researcher said on Thursday.

Ton Hoff, manager of the Energy Research Center of the Netherlands, said it could take decades to make alternatives affordable to the point where they can be used widely, although high oil prices were already stimulating such research.

"If we run out of fossil fuels -- by the time the oil price hits 100 dollars or plus, people will be screaming for alternatives, but whether they will be available at that moment of time -- that's my biggest worry," Hoff said.

"That's why we need to use fossil fuels in a more efficient way to have some more time to develop these alternatives up to a level where the robustness is guaranteed and their price has come down ... This could take decades for some technologies."

More...

[sintax]

1. Thanx hope more will nominate

[Canuckistanian]

2. This is important.

I'm preparing for it. And everyone else should too.

[goforit]

31. Time to dust off your old bike in the garage.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

59. Dust?

On my bicycle?

[lonestarnot]

67. Camel anyone?

[In_The_Wind]

3. We already have the alternatives to oil & the technology to use them!

STOP building fossil fueled engines ~ NOW !

[mahatmakanejeeves]

60. Tear Up Railroads

NOW!

Locomotives burn fossil fuels.

Too bad everyone has to starve.

[In_The_Wind]

75. Think again!

Alternative power sources do exist ... even for trains.

EVERYONE will starve if we keep going as we are!

[mahatmakanejeeves]

Why don't you name some?

?

[In_The_Wind]

78. try this

a ... google search ... News ... Results 1 - 10 of about 610 for alternative power for fossil fuel. (0.12 seconds)

[4dsc]

85. Alternatives are not the answer!!

Sorry to say but alternatives are not going replace what we get from oil today!! Not even close!! For instances, its estimated that the total corn crop would only make enough ethanol to replace about 12% of the gasoline we sue yearly!!

[In_The_Wind]

87. Nor will oil made from vegetable crops made into an alternative for diesel

However ... Albany, N Y has one hydro-powered bus. If it's a success there will be more.

Solar and wind generated power can be used to augment the needs of electric powered cars.

We have options IF we give up our dependency on oil.

[4dsc]

89. To bad solar and wind

to bad solar and wind have very little do with replacing oil!! The only way the US will ever give ups its dependency on oil, is for oil to become scarce. Even if you consider that about 9% of our electric needs come from oil, solal and wind won't even replace that amount..

Sorry to say but only a society that uses far less energy than we do currently will ultimately survive!! And if you live in a big city, forget it!!

[In_The_Wind]

90. It's time to rethink the whole idea of energy and the way we use oil.

Lets face it ... even if everyone in the whole world cuts back to minimal usage, that's not the answer.

There is only just so much oil left - period.

We can and should find ways to replace using oil; to heat our homes, run machinery which processes our goods, manufacturing plastics ... in short ... making gas to run our cars and trucks will become the least of our concerns.

get the big picture ... stop building motors which are powered by fossil fuel

[mahatmakanejeeves]

94. "Solar and wind generated power ... electric cars"

I asked about locomotives. Locomotives put out about 3000 horsepower each. These things are going to run on solar or wind power? I don't think so. Where are you going to get that much hydrogen? Never mind running a Cessna 172.

Metric conversion: one horsepower is 746 watts, or 0.75 kW. Thus, 100 horsepower is 75 kW. 1000 horsepower is 750 kW. 3000 horsepower is 2250 kW.

Locomotives have to go out into the middle of nowhere to drop off and pick up freight cars. It will not be the case that all 142,000 miles of railroad in the US will be electrified.

Case in point: the Polson local on the Montana Rail Link delivers tank cars of liquified petroleum gas that provide heat for people living out in the country. I suppose they can all buy solar panels, and that it's their problem that Montana can be cloudy and cold in the winter. No problem; they can move to Albany and ride the one hydrogen-powered bus.

Many years ago, I was inspecting refrigerated cars the week before Thanksgiving in the Union Pacific Railroad yard in Hinkle, Oregon. It was about 2 or 3 a.m. Each car is mechanically refrigerated. That means that they don't use blocks of ice to keep food cool anymore. Instead, they use diesel engines running an onboard air conditioning system. No more internal combustion means that people in the Midwest and on the East Coast no longer receive fresh food from California. What are they supposed to do? Starve?

I want realistic answers, not just "do a Google search." Insisting that we cease production of fossil-fueled engines "NOW!" is nonsense.

[AndyTiedye]

103. Hydroelectric Isn't Going Away

and coal isn't going away any time soon.

We can still have our trains.

We just can't burn so much gasoline as we currently are burning.
Not that we can afford to do that anymore anyway.

[NickB79]

115. Hydroelectric is mostly tapped out

Almost all the major damable rivers have been dammed over the past 50 yrs since WWII.

And coal is probably the most polluting energy source you could resort to, even with "clean coal" technology.

[RPM]

116. Hydro-electric or Nuclear energy....

run the electricity through the wires and to the locomotives...

would have to string new catenary outside of the NE, but it could be done, with no further advances in technology...

(you could refirgerate with HEP off of the loco from the catenary since the ice caps are melting anyway...)

[davekriss]

95. Alternatives have there place...

...they will soften the slope down the backside of Hubbert's Peak, but you are very right. Take biomass as a source of fuel: We'd have to dedicate 6.5x the land mass of the earth toward growing fuels to match the cheap energy kick we get from oil. That doesn't leave much room for food and dwelling.

The carrying capacity of the earth prior to the current Oil Interval appears to have been around 1.8 billion people. We have nearly 7 billion today. You do the math. Oil depletion is code for there's Malthusian disaster up ahead. Or, in the words of Hunter J Thompson, Big Dark Coming Soon.

This time an oil-driven "Green Revolution" won't save us; in fact there are no technologies on the horizon that can save us from needing to dramatically reengineer how we live -- either we do it, or our lives will be "reengineered" for us, and in just a few short decades.

Unfortunately we've already seen how USG leadership intends to live: Lie the U.S. into illegal wars that allow them to build impregnable garrisions ontop of a majority of the world's remaining oil, a space from which they will radiate future imperial power (Iran and Venezuela are inevitable); steel the financial fortresses of elites by cutting marginal tax rates, taking on incredible debt, shifting cash flows into favored industries they control (oil & gas, munitions manufacturers), attempting to raid the social security trust fund; promote end-times eschatology to manufacture consent for irrational support of Israel as cover for their imperial agenda; dismantle environmental and occupational safety regulations because, in the keen words of GWB, in the future we're all dead -- "all" here referring to the rascal multitudes, who in the eyes of leadership are either "cannon fodder" (GHWB) or "useless eaters" (Kissinger). These are not the actions of a leadership that perceive a cooperative future where all boats float, but a circling of the wagons in anticipation of the onslaught of desparate, hungry hoards.

However, such a dystopia does not have to be, we can change the course of history, we just have to seize control over our own ways of life, prepare for the inevitable, refuse to cooperate and participate in the machinations of power and live our own lives.

[sui generis]

4. looks like a couple of changes are on the horizon

1. work from home tech will pick up

2. only seasonal fruits and veggies available to the plebes

3. Wal Mart is more expensive than Made In America because shipping from Hong Kong sucks

4. Firewood, fireplaces, heavy winter clothing and seasonal bathing make a temporary comeback

5. renting sheep to mow and fertilize the lawn becomes popular

6. cold mutton stew replaces the PBJ and the BLT for most of the year

7. Explosion of internet porn delivered through a laptop powered by a bicycle ala Gilligans Island - cheaper than a driving a date around and you don't have to marry it if you screw up.

:evilgrin:

[Javaman]

9. Do coconut phones go with that?

[Ian David]

13. Maybe we'll be re-importing jobs from India?

1) Company has Tech Support people in America make $14/hour
2) Company outsources Tech Support to India for $4/hour
3) Company in India sub-contracts to Americans working from home for $2/hour. under the table.

[Journeyman]

5. After September 11, George Bush had within his grasp...

the opportunity to call us to be something greater than we are. With wise leadership, the American people -- indeed, most developed nations on Earth -- could have participated in an unprecedented attempt to remake the world. Renewable energy, clean water for all, adequate food and health care . . . they could have all been addressed. And at the least, alternative energy could have been brought to the fore.

But the bumbling idiot chose to build his legacy from an odorous revenge and a deceitful attack on innocents. And unfortunately, we will all suffer the consequences for eons to come.

How many Presidents have ever been given such an opportunity? Washington for sure. Lincoln most definitely. Franklin Roosevelt both here and abroad. And Bush. . . well, at least some rose to the occasion

[Javaman]

7. He pissed away ours and the worlds future...

he seems to have a history of fuck ups.

nothing new here, move along, NOTHING to see.

[Robeson]

22. His buddies in the oil and military industries would never have allowed...

...him to do all that. He serves his masters.

[mojavekid]

23. That was Never Bush's' intention,

to lead America, or the World to a renewable energy future. Bush was and is completely aware of Peak Oil.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

6. And what a coincidence...

... that big oil and highway contractor lobby's have fought ethanol/gasahol programs for decades. Or maybe it isn't such a coincidence after all.

[Placebo]

10. These people have no sense of history...

or caring for the World around them. All they care about is profits and personal wealth, both of which are going to be pretty worthless once the planet can't even support the people who are on it because we've destroyed it beyond repair.

[Megahurtz]

15. Oh but you can bet that they already have

their own personal underground bunkers with every comfort and amenity possible,
complete with huge indestructible safes.

[KayLaw]

49. They sure as hell do, honey

Anyone who doubts it can do a Google search on Crawford Ranch and solar power, photolytic, hydro, etc., then the same with the White House. Jimmy Carter had put in solar panels that Reagan ripped out--well, Bush put them back with all the bells and whistles and a huge water cistern. Whatever Cheney blew our money on that involved blasts shaking the neighborhood around the VP residence, he refuses to say, but one can imagine.

[DJ MEW]

8. Peak Oil

This is all about something called Peak Oil. I read through a website about this awhile ago http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

From the view that I have on this issue it looks like the people will have to be the force of change because the government and the corporations will not act fast enough to be prepared for the energy crash.

[lala_rawraw]

11. But that is what they want, us=slaves and them "elite"

[Ryano42]

12. Well either by choice or...

the ONLY alternative :)

[Rainscents]

14. People should buy bike now, next thing you know, they'll be very expensive

to buy. I am going to go out this weekend and purchase one!

[Placebo]

17. I guess I'll have to learn how to ride a bike...

I've been putting it off for 19 years now (I'm 19 years old lol)

[Rainscents]

19. I learned when I was almost 15... Of course, I felled offed a lot at first

but I did finally learned after few months. I didn't have training wheels.

[nookiemonster]

20. "I didn't have training wheels"

Showoff.

:)

[Rainscents]

29. LOL

:hi:

[DamnYank]

70. Maybe the prezdent can larn ya...........

He certainly knows how to ride one.:evilgrin:

[AndyTiedye]

24. I Want One of These

[Fovea]

30. ahhh a calfee

Designed with Fast Freddie Markham, protoge of the late Gardner Martin (I currently ride another Martin designed bike)

Yeah, it looks pretty trick in its carbon fiber glory.

[AndyTiedye]

41. I Test-Rode the Gold Rush and the Stiletto

The carbon fiber Stiletto obviously delivers a smoother ride
(even riding the thing on the dirt. I don't think they woulda let
me do that with the Gold Rush -- not that I expect any bent to replace
my mountain bike for that sort of thing).

I had misgivings about the Stiletto's remote steering until I rode it.
Much more civilized at low speeds / close quarters than the Gold Rush.

Couldn't test either at downhill speeds, only a little hill near
Easyracers and none near Calfee (which is right on Monterey Bay).

I also briefly tried out a Ti-Rush while I was at Easyracers,
but it was too big for me.

Which one do you have?

[Fovea]

74. I actually have an EZ Sport AL

It is Sun, but Martin designed.

The aluminum frame is light, and surprizingly good for Sun.

I really would like to get a fold rush one of these days, and am considering selling my Bacchetta Giro or trading it for one.

I have come to like the LWB's better.

[AndyTiedye]

77. Among the SWB's, the Bacchetta is one I'm Interested In

but I haven't ridden one yet.

I tried a Lightning briefly, and aside from being too big, it seemed
really challenging at slow speeds and one's feet are WAY up in the air.
I don't know if I could handle one of those in traffic.

How is the Bacchetta in traffic?

[Fovea]

79. It is pretty good in traffic

I test rode a Strada, and the Bottom bracket was just too high for the way I ride.

But generically, I am coming to the conclusion that I just like the LWB bikes better. But then again, I have had a stroke that affected my balance some, so YMMV.

I want a fold rush because I use Amtrack, and they say they will take folders anywhere as carry on.

[AndyTiedye]

82. What's That Your Avatar is Riding?

[Fovea]

100. That is an Action Bent Jet Stream I

a very inexpensive, but great little bike if you are good with a wrench, and willing to upgrade the stock version.

Not so great in heavy traffic, but fairly light and sleek on the long road rides at higher speeds.

[AndyTiedye]

106. I've Noticed that Bent Riders Never Seem to Have Just One

BTW, if you're looking for a Gold Rush, sooner is better than later,
their prices are going up $500 for bikes ordered after September 1st.

[Fovea]

107. I have been talking to a buddy who makes

motocycle frames about fabricating a fold rush clone out of
CroMo.

I have the old set of TourEasy plans from way back, and it looks like a fairly straightforward set of mods.

[Fovea]

112. In that price range,

I will have to get a used one, or make a clone.

[AndyTiedye]

93. When Amtrak Says a "Folding Bike"...

I think they were thinking of something like a Dahon or a Bike Friday.
Will they accept something the size of a Fold Rush as a "folding bike"?

I'm a bit curious about BART with a big LWB myself. I read their rules
over several times and it doesn't seem to say anything about size.
Hopefully, that means that big bents are OK. Without BART, getting
across the Bay is problematical, as bikes are not allowed on any of
the bay bridges. The ferries might be an option as they also take bikes.

[Fovea]

101. I have heard from other riders

that BART will let bents on, but they don't fit in the normal rack, so like the California Amtrak lines, you have to strap them down.

That is what I heard from someone last year at least.
That was an aside in an Amtrak discussion, so take it for what it is worth.

Amtrak is very inconsistent in their rules, and from one region to another, it seems to vary. Generally, when I mention that I am working with a couple of NGO's that assist with Amtrak funding, and mention that I would hate to have to call Mr. Gunn again (and oh, btw, how do you spell that last name?) I tend to get cooperation in most cases.

The fact that I am clearly disabled also makes a diff, I think.

[davekriss]

97. A bicycle question...

...I used to ride my Trek 2300 carbon fiber and aluminum bike around 3,000 miles per year, then my wife and I moved cross-country 3 times and its become a garage ornament. The bike, I think, has lots of life left in it, but an actively riding neighbor said no, that we've learned that passive electrolysis between the aluminum lugs and the carbon fiber tubes erodes the strength of the joints and the tubes can now (at 11 years old) pull out -- the bike is now unsafe. Is that true? Ever hear anything like that?

Shame as it is a great bike (very light, Ultegra component set, great ride).

[Fovea]

102. Not sure about this model

but nowadays, fabricators add a layer of old fashioned fiberglass between the carbon and conductive metals.

I would suggest you take the bike to a Trek dealer and have them take a look at it. If it is unsafe, you still have all that Ultegra gruppo left to put on another frame. Like, maybe Titanium.

[Ryano42]

50. I got two Yetis

Handmade in Golden, CO. I used to race them MANY years ago...



One is for mountain biking and another with road bike bars for commuting and the road!

[teknomanzer]

86. Check out this site - for your future bike...

A very good friend of mine builds recumbents... maybe he'll be a millionaire soon :p

http://www.organicengines.com

[Fovea]

105. I have been seriously considering

the frameset for the SUV.

What I really want is a FWD trike with a back section that folds up to the seat/boom section for Amtrak/Public transit with the seat removable and storing on the folded trike...

[teknomanzer]

113. My suggestion...

Send Dan Kavanaugh an email - he does custom work. He designed and fabricates all the frames himself... and besides that he's a really cool guy. I'm sure he would work with you on the design.

[reprobate]

114. Wife and I will be looking at a couple of these.

http://www.catrike.com/pocket.htm

And they're built right here in the orlando area, about five miles from the house. And reasonably priced from what I can tell.

Unfortunatly, we only have about seven months here when it's not too hot to leave the A/C.

Sorry I haven't learned how to post pictures yet.

[reprobate]

117. Like this

[seersuckersuit]

16. walking

I prefer walking, myself.

[nookiemonster]

18. Uh huh.

35 miles to work each way in a metropolis of 1,000,000 people and no feasible mass transit system.

"Hi boss, I'm on my way to work. See ya tomorrow."

:silly:

[yurbud]

21. people will die, and we can thank cowardly dems and corrupt GOP

[mojavekid]

25. This is true,

and Unfortunately, we do not have 20, 15 or even 5 years to develop the energy alternatives and make them commercially available. The too cheap, wasteful, high energy life we have all enjoyed is over.

[yurbud]

37. the tech is out there & commercial available, just not on scale needed

or rather won't be once people realize they need it.

Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[dutchdoctor]

45. I've read some where that bio-ethanol becomes

competitive when the oil price rises above $70, so that should be anytime now. The problem, as you say, is the scale you need to produce enough ethanol to become a real alternative for all those huge American gas guzzlers. Won't happen anytime soon...

[liquiduniverse]

61. bio fuels like ethanol and biodiesel are mostly hype

It takes more energy to create these fuels than you get from burning them. Sure if you have some left-over cooking oil, you might as well burn it for it's energy. But, in order to have an economy based on biofuel, we would need better technology and then still need much of the earth's free land to to produce the raw materials (ie. plants) to create the fuels.

[yurbud]

65. how hard is it to get that cooking oil compared to petroleum?

The stuff about costs of biofuels is a lie.

One of my students is a farmer, read some of the studies on the supposed exorbitant costs of making biofuels, and immediately noticed that they inflated the energy costs of farming an acre of land.

Biodiesel is pretty simple. You squish the oil out of the crop, and some chemicals and heat it for a while. Some hippie did the last two steps in a barrel on the back of his bus as he went around to fast food places to collect the oil. That sounds cheaper than an oil refinery.

Also, we have a couple of thousand more years experience distilling alcohol than we have refining petroleum. If a couple of hillbillies can do it in their backyard with copper tubes and a bathtub, it can't be that hard or expensive.


The amount of cropland it would take to do this is about 6% of what we use now, and most if not all years, we have gigantic crop surpluses.

Also, a lot of the poverty in the Third World is because their farmers can't compete with our subsidized crops. If we had this additional use for it, it might the price of their products might go up and help them out.

At the very least, we could use E85, which is 85% gasoline, 15% alcohol, which can run in existing cars with no modification. If we made that small change, we could cut our oil use by that 15%.

I don't think we should do a biofuel based economy, but we should use it and other renewables to get over the hump of running out of oil.

Brazil has already gone a long way toward doing this and even manufacture a jet aircraft that runs on alcohol.

Unfortunately, alcohol and biofuel production is so easy to do, it can't be monopolized like oil and nuclear, so the big energy companies have no only have no interest in developing and promoting it, they have a vested interest and suppressing it.

We have to figure out ways to do this stuff on our own.

Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[liquiduniverse]

80. so you need heat to make biofuel...

Where does all that energy come from? You have to take plant matter and get it to become oil or alcohol - that's an energy intensive task. Even if the numbers are overinflated about how much energy it takes to grow the crops, it takes a lot more to refine the crops. Then factor in all the energy required to create the machinery that harvests and refines the crops and your gains become minimal at best.

[yurbud]

81. Do you honest to god think it takes MORE than it does to do gas?

And even if it did, the raw material is here, so we could get the energy to process it from renewables like solar or wind.

the more people toalk about it, the more the opposition sounds like oil company PR.



Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[liquiduniverse]

83. of course it takes more energy to refine than gasoline

Oil refines fairly easily and is loaded with energy. It takes a whole lot of corn to equal the same amount of energy as a barrel of oil, and then you have to take all that corn and make it become alcohol or oil - that takes quite a lot of energy. I'm not saying the process can't be made better - but with current technology, it's not even close to being a viable alternative to oil.

Using solar or wind created electricity to create heat would not work very well since electricity to heat is a fairly inefficient process. This electricity would be much better served being used to run homes.

BTW - I detest the oil companies and I'd love to see something replace oil - at the very least we should be fighting for much tougher milage standards for vehicles and more energy efficient homes. However, I prefer to take a realistic view on the issue and as it stands now, there's not much is out there that's close to replacing the vast amount of oil that we consume.

[klyon]

76. that has been my concern about bio fuel

How could we use our good farm land to grow fuel for our cars when people are going hungry?

KL

[yurbud]

88. you can still eat the food part.

just like you can use the other parts of oil. Your just pressing the oil out.

Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[mojavekid]

54. I am not a scientist or an engineer,

but on the scale of replacing even a part of our gasoline usage, I do not see anything that is as versitile, cheap, or that packs as much energy as oil.

Once people realize it, we will already be on the downslope of Oil Peak, making every investment in a new energy infrastructure more difficult and exspensive.

Ultimately it will mean a lower energy future, at least in the near term. I do hope I am wrong.

[Chemical Bill]

58. I'm a chemist...

and cheap is the only thing that petroleum has on vegetable oil. That's if you don't include $60 billion a year and, how many lives so far? Anything we make out of oil, we can make from biomass of some kind. The money thing is getting closer. There's a group at UNH making algae oil production a reality. BTW, hemp is one of the best industrial plants, which some say is the reason it's illegal. ;)

Bill

[mojavekid]

64. I thought so,

Bill, from your blog link. I am just your average joe trying to understand what is truly feasible in the near term, and can take the place of Oil with a minimum of disruption. I am also enthusiastic about Bio, Ethanol, and the myriad other alternatives, including the potential of Algae, truly. However, It seems the important question is when will Peak arrive, as this will affect our ability to respond, all this technology, if it's to be implemented on a large scale requires a tremendous amount of energy and materials, which in turn require even more energy to produce which all becomes more complicated in an environment of decreasing energy supply.

Bryan

[davekriss]

98. If you want to learn more...

...I recommend reading through this thread: *A petroleum geologist explains US war policy on urban75 (I think Mike S makes you register now before viewing threads). If you ignore my political and dystopic rants in the first few pages you see an incredible discussion of the issues and science behind peak oil and alternatives. The thread is more than 2 years old now and runs about 35 pages. I highly recommend a read (including following through to its many links).

Enjoy! :)

[mojavekid]

108. Thanks davekriss!,

I registered and will read through it this weekend. Colin Campbell I do keep up with through the ASPO Newsletter.

[yurbud]

69. how come ethanol was cheaper than gas in early 80s?

Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[yurbud]

68. I remember putting gasahol, 85% gas, 15% alcohol, in my car in 80s

because it was cheaper than straight gas. I didn't notice any performance difference.

For some reason, ethanol is LESS available now than then. The closest place I can get it is San Diego, 2.5 hours away.

I think alcohol does pack a little less punch, but the most that would hurt is your range.

[Delphinus]

26. You want to know what my "congressman" said?

"The government can't do anything about it."

No thought from his brain about exploring alternatives, about public transportation, etc. - just that it's, basically, not the government's fault. Asshole.

[Placebo]

27. "The government can't do anything about it."

That's just the kind of thinking that's going to doom us all. That is dooming us all.

[Canuckistanian]

39. Grants for renewable energy?

CO2 limits to postpone the inevitable? (could save lives).
Tax breaks for conservation (and I mean serious tax breaks)?
Mass transit expansion/encouragement?

The list goes on and on.

Sounds like this "congressman" needs some education from someone other than a K street lobbyist.

[bustarbusto]

47. Nothing to worry about...

Bush seems to have the CO2 problem well in hand ;)

Bush Announces Global Air Conditioner Initiative

[cheesloaf]

48. Yikes

Ha, I could so hear Bush making that speech with this announcement:

"So what I'm announcing today is a supplementary budget request for our Global Air Conditioner Initiative. We're going to war with earth heating. We're going to cool down the earth."

What a moron!

[iamjoy]

62. Cute Story, But Two "Problems"

I mean, maybe it was deliberate, but the hurricane name "Floyd" was retired in 1999, because it was so destructive in the Carolinas.

The "F" storm for 2006 will be Florence.

Of course, this could have been deliberate misnaming since the whole article was satire. But they should have come up with a better fake storm. Like, Hurricane Filbert

[davekriss]

99. Now there's a natural born leader for ya' (eom)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

28. May I humbly suggest the horse?

If not that, how about getting momma a new pair of shoes.

I and I survive.

[Canuckistanian]

40. Horses are going to be the new Ferraris

Big, expensive, but fast and reliable. And a status symbol to boot.

[Conservativesux]

42. No more gas-guzzling 10MPG Ford Crown-Victoria's for the police!

No more helicopters buzzing overhead, wasting fuel costing taxpayers 2000 dollars and hour or more. Taxes will have to go down because no one will be able to pay at the rate we do today.

Look on the bright side, folks.

We will all be more free then we are now, when energy costs are though the roof ;)

[kestrel91316]

32. World running out of time. Period.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

33. I think a comma is more appropriate than a period.

:shrug:

[kestrel91316]

34. Oh, we're the GRAMMAR POLICE now, are we, smartypants?

:spank:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

36. Nope.

Just not willing to put a "Period" where a "Comma" should be.

[Massacure]

35. Peak Oil is going to bitch slap the U.S. much harder than the EU.

The EU has excellent mass transit that is powered mainly by electricity. The North Sea will probably provide enough to switch what isn't electric.

[Oggy]

46. It will slap everyone

The world is too interconnected, and we (in the EU) have highly intensive agriculture which uses lots of oil.

[niallmac]

38. Howard Kunstler lives and breaths 'peak oil'

check out some of his thoughts: http://www.kunstler.com/mags_diary14.html
...mind you he can be a little freepish when it come to Iraq etc, I am just recommending a read of his peak oil thoughts.
By the way, he says it and I tend to believe; We do not have alternatives to oil. Sure we have alternative ways of making energy but anything remotely close for prime time to save us from our urban sprawl, auto dependent economy? Hell no.

[AndyTiedye]

91. Of Course We Have Alternatives

That doesn't mean we can waste as much as we currently do, but we can
come up with enough energy to get by.

[Blue_Tires]

43. ttt n/t

[tedzbear]

44. World's also run out of time disarming its nukes.

Let's do the math.

Human civilization: 5,000 years
Human nukes: 60 years
Number of nukes in 2005: over 10,000

Do you really think those are good odds for our survival? I think gas will be the least of our worries ten years from now.

[Coventina]

51. We're "out of time" already

Global warming will finish us off.

[Chemical Bill]

52. I've been running biodiesel for two years.

I expect it to be illegal soon. :sarcasm:

Bill

[maryinohio]

110. Chemical Bill - Are you using this in your car?

Did you convert a diesel, or a gasoline engine?

I'm really interested in biofuel. I'm an electrical & mechanical engineer and I'd love to get more information on this. I'd love to have a discussion with you about this, but I haven't posted enough to send you a private message. Do you have your own site about this?

I really do think we can turn things around quickly. Some of you guys don't have enough faith in yourselves and our collective ingenuity (sp?).

[OKthatsIT]

53. Of course, Bush Energy Bill said NOTHING ABOUT IT

[Tyrone Slothrop]

55. Kerry should have made this the center plank of his campaign

After all the criticism about how the Democrats are the "party of no ideas", Kerry should have pledged that he would see to it that the US developed a viable alternative energy source in 10 years.

That, or pledged that the US would develop a cure for cancer within the next 10 years.

Would have negated the "no ideas" bullshit and probably would have swept him into office.

We put a man on the moon in less than 10 years. The country needs to be united under some sort of common goal again. Of course, there's no chance that Bush will make any sort of effort in that direction. It's sad what this nation has come to.

[Kolesar]

56. He should not have been so fearful of Exxon &global warming propagandists

Attack their strengths. People are getting to hate the oil companies again, like in the 1970s.

[Zorra]

57. Too bad nobody has invented an engine that runs on republican bullshit.

There is an endless supply of it these days.

[AndyTiedye]

104. I Thought I Could Use All That Repub Bullshit for Fertilizer...

...but the plants died.

[tabasco]

63. Thanks to the power, greed, and shortsightedness of republicans

and other "business friendly" politicians in America, we will all suffer greatly because of oil prices.

Many of us tried to do something about it but were called "alarmists, tree-huggers, and wacko environmentalists."

So be it. If the People are too stupid to see through the lies, then they have brought it on themselves.

[tabasco]

66. This was a timely headline in 1970.

Now it is laughable :rofl: The time is well-passed for us to avoid crisis. Thank you oil companies and the shortsighted republican party that has continually fought measures to conserve :mad:

The robber barons are completely running the country for the first time since the 1920's and I feel like I'm living in 1929 (economically) and 1984 (politically).

:smoke: So I'm gonna party like it's 1999 and try to forget about it! :party:

I'm glad I drive an Echo (~50 mpg).

[Deja Q]

72. I'm glad you're being modest.

But you'd better lock the thing up and replace the glass with lead. SOmeone else is going to want your Echo. And might go to great lengths to get it once the crash happens. (it's not me, I already have my solution and it's preferable to how animalistic everyone else is going to be acting...)

Be smug all you like. :party:

[Deja Q]

71. Uh, we had TWENTY FIVE YEARS TO DO SOMETHING. You can thank

Reagan for ditching all of the previously set-up programs claiming "obsolescence".

Poppy did sod all.

Clinton, amongst other things, removed the federal 55mph speed limit that was set up as a means TO conserve oil (engines' typical performance/usage ratio peaks at 35mph. And at 65mph you're using 15% more gas than at 55mph.)

*, amongst other things, tells us we need an energy policy that encourages consumption. :eyes:

The oil corporations naturally wouldn't care; it's their profits. Why would they work against their own self-interests? :dunce:

The American people, on the whole, are too damn selfish to think, nevermind care about society. They just want more money.

Sorry. But our "leadership" of the last 25 years is fully responsible, as are the people too spoon-fed to care. And our leaders made our people what they are.

The REAL question afoot is "What happens WHEN the crash occurs?" And I want just enough time to get that plastic bag over my head because the alternative (beaten to death or, worse, a coma, just so my "civilized" neighbor can steal my remaining goods) is not very palatable to me.

[KansDem]

96. I hear you...

This could take decades for some technologies.

Uh, three decades have passed since Jimmy Carter entered the White House and placed solar panels on the roof, turned the thermostat down to 68o, and wore sweaters. But as you pointed out, Reagan and his ilk scoffed at Carter and took the panels down in 1981. Now we are paying the price for this kind of arrogance and near-sightedness. It makes me mad.

Perhaps we could drill on Reagan's gravesite? He must be fossil fuel by now and every little bit will help.

[ihelpu2see]

73. In the next week I will be producing my own BioDiesel...

Used cooking oil from my fast food friends and filter it and convert it and presto home heating fuel and fuel for my TDI...

[agincourt]

84. It's really sad,

I'll hear even Bush voters at work say something, that we need alternatives to petroleum and natural gas, ignorant of the fact that the current regime wants no real alternatives. A government that would actually do something about peak oil would be a REAL American government not a circus of swine like Delay, W and Rove. That Government would make corparations and conglamerates do something for the American people, not try to make the American people serve them. No real progress on peak oil will occur until this plantation owner, crony capitalist, televangelist GOP controlled government is shit-canned one way or another.

[LiberalAmerican]

92. Is it just me, or is that pump upside down!

I've never seen it done that way...

[HC2008]

109. Crude Politics

Hey....

New at this internet stuff and not quite sure how to post this pic but you have to see this one. I think you'll love it regardless of your political affiliation. Go to http://iraqifreedom.com/ & click on the Political Humor category at the bottom right side of the page for a close up view. It has somthing to do with the topic of this thread...!

[sintax]

111. Welcome to DU

:toast: