Minutemen will be armed patrolling Houston (leader has criminal record)

[DeepModem Mom]

Houston Chronicle:
Minutemen will be armed while patrolling Houston
By EDWARD HEGSTROM
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle


....Leaders of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps of Texas had earlier said volunteers observing Houston's day laborers in October would carry nothing but video cameras.

But leaders now say those involved in the operations targeting local illegal immigrants will be allowed to carry arms as long as they comply with all federal and state laws.

In fact, those who have a concealed-weapons permit are being offered a discount on joining the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps. An Arizona-based organization, the Minutemen started out by patrolling the Arizona-Mexico border in April to prevent illegal immigrants from crossing, but the group has announced it will conduct a variety of operations here this fall....

***

Chris Simcox, the head of the group....has gotten in trouble with the law for being armed....Simcox was arrested (in 2003) by federal agents, accused of entering Coronado National Monument in Arizona while armed.

He was convicted of entering a federal park with a loaded weapon and offering false information to a federal officer, both misdemeanors, and was sentenced to two years' probation, court records show....


http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3318459

[tanyev]

1. Maybe you should let the Chronicle know about this:

Minutemen fly nazi flag at rally
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4296888

[DeepModem Mom]

3. OMG...I will. nt

[tanyev]

5. A few more threads on the same topic:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4330352

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4297156

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4287961

[DeepModem Mom]

23. Thanks, tanyev. nt

[Chrisduhfur]

4. That's upsetting.

I try not to be too PC because I think that simply causing more problems than it fixes. However I would think the leaders of this program would have more sense than to allow these idiots carry such flags. No doubt they have their rights to do it, but the fact remains that even if it's a few idiots who are doing such things it still reflects poorly on the whole movement. I know of many people who are involved in this, but they are not racist at all. If I was those people I would be pissed that this was allowed.

[NNN0LHI]

11. Yea the Nazi Brownshirts had a few shitheads intermixed with them too

Made them all look bad.

Don

[mom cat]

38. Not surprised...

[Chrisduhfur]

2. Hmmm asking for trouble...

I personally don't have an issue with the minuteman project. I know many people seem to be against it, but I don't care if people wish to stand at the border and call in people crossing illegally. However, I don't like the idea of these people being armed. Not because I think the group as a whole would go out killing people as they cross, but because I fear that some idiot will get drunk and end up picking people off for sport. Which would of course end up making the whole project look bad.

What's your guy's opinion on this minutemen(unarmed observers)? Against it? For it? Indifferent? And of course what is your reasoning behind your thoughts.

As I said above, I am for it until the border patrol is beefed up so it can do its job more effectively. Although I suspect many people do not wish for the border patrol to be more effective(on both sides of the political spectrum)

[salin]

6. dangerous.

By the nature of the effort, it attracts folks who are racist (hence the storm front folks who came to that rally in California - story linked above in this thread). No way to decide who gets to play border patrol and who doesn't. Just invites vigilantism mixed with racism - even if that is not that is not the intent of some of those involved in this. Now add being armed. I think the whole thing is frightening - given todays mix of anger being stoked up on talk radio and tv - and the inherent attraction to this sort of effort for folks like Matthew Hale's followers (think Benjamin Smith - who went on a murder spree in Illinois and Indiana - against people of color.)

[rodeodance]

7. gun-tooting people looking for trouble--yes -very dangerous.

[Chrisduhfur]

9. true.

I just read a the link above that pointed out some neo-nazis who were hanging out there(which is a shame). However, the problem is that something has to be done. No matter how you look at it there is a problem with the current system. Not only does it cause harm to the US economy(in some ways, although I aware that it has some benefits) it also doesn't give the illegals the opportunities & support that they could have. I've never really seen anyone actually do anything in the past or even have any good ideas. Of course I am still rather young and ignorant in many aspects of the world(although I do my best to learn and listen)

[salin]

39. laws of supply and demand

go after the employers - in a big way - and cut off the demand. Very quickly the supply (per new arrivals) will dry up.

[conservdem]

45. I think this alone would not be such a great fix

because it would lead to the illegal aliens getting better papers to convince companies they legal.

[oneighty]

8. A fool with gun in hand

is still a fool. If the laws are not good enough change the laws.

One day the fool with gun in hand will meet another equal but opposite fool with gun in hand.

180

[barb162]

15. I would prefer to see federal agents protect the

borders. When Congress sent a bill to the administration on 10,000 additional border patrol people Bush refused to sign it. The states are left in the lurch. Bush simply isn't doing his job and has utterly failed in protecting the borders of this country. Minutemen and similar groups are a response to the lack of Bush doing his job. It's funny how Bush is pissing away a billion a week on Iraq but is unconcerned about open borders here.

[Chrisduhfur]

22. Oh yeah I agree.

I agree with you 100% that Bush simply isn't doing enough to prevent this. The funny thing is that republicans are supposed to be the ones who are most vocal about this. Actually because of this issue(among others) I know many republican and conservatives who are disgusted with Bush. He is doing a good job at pissing everyone off.

[kestrel91316]

41. The Republicans are the ones who own all the big businesses that

PROFIT MASSIVELY from the exploitation of illegal immigrant labor. Why anyone would ever think the Republicans would do anything about illegal immigration is beyond me.

[conservdem]

47. It is not just the big businesses that hire them. I believe that

many small businesses (landscaping, construction, movers for example) hire illegal aliens as day laborers. While I would agree that many of the big companies doing it are run by Rebubs, I thinks some and quite a few of the smaller companies are run by Dems.

Dems politicians are also a large part of this problem

[kestrel91316]

48. You are right about those types of businesses also ...............

No white guys I know can find construction work anymore. The contractors only hire illegals.

[barb162]

49. That's what I am hearing about construction too

I know people in the field

[barb162]

42. Some months back some Republican came on DU and

mentioned it could be the issue that could unite Americans and get Bush out because the polls consistently show about 80% of Americans do not want illegal immigration. I remember it was posted before the presidential election. He (at least I remember the person as a he)said he and many GOP types hated what Bush was not doing about border security because Bush stands around talking about how he's always fighting terror and all and these borders and seaports are sieves or worse and he hadn't done a damned thing in securing the borders in 3 years since 9-11. These are the economic Republicans (versus the moral values republicans, although there can ber overlap) who don't like how he is draining the treasury, the way he's spending like there's no tomorrow, the way the illegals are taking jobs from American workers, etc. That person was very concerned that a terrorist could pretend to be an illegal and just waltz right in with a coyote's help. Listening to either MSNBC or CNN yesterday, I heard some reporter talking that the FBI made some presentation to Congress that terrorists from the Mideast have already entered the southern border.

I think having an orderly legal immigration policy is very possible. It never should have gotten this out of hand. And I agree with you that the GOP types I know want the illegal immigration stopped now.

[conservdem]

46. Dems should hit him hard on this. This could be a great

way to win the next elections. Some Republicans would truly vote for a Dem that was going to really address this problem.

[leesa]

19. Pointless project and doomed to tragedy. Why aren't you focusing

on the more rational approach of going after the corporations that hire them??? I know why the minutemen aren't...because the are macho racist cowboys. And I bet if you scratch the surface of your friends who are minutemen, you will find a very healthy racism.

[Chrisduhfur]

24. I doubt I would find many of them to be racist.

Maybe some but they sure in hell don't show it. Most of them are like me and grew up in very integrated communities. Either way though that's besides the point. I agree that going after companies who hire them would be the best way to deal with it, however that clearly isn't happening. The fact is that even though this project has its flaws it still is only action being taken that may make some difference. Obviosuly most people would want more federal or state forces on the border instead, but again, that isn't happening.

[conservdem]

44. Why not do both, secure the border and go after the Co. that

hire the illegal aliens?

[conservdem]

43. I support those who are willing to help patrol our borders.

I think good and wise leaders (Repub and Dem) should be in favor of securing our border. It needs to be done now for security and so those that want to come here do it properly. I hope our Dem leaders are wise enough to really take the lead on this issue.

[rucky]

10. Lynch mob, Inc. goes national.

How long until they kill somebody?

[orpupilofnature57]

12. A Clockwork Orange !

[NNN0LHI]

18. I predict some ultraviolence n/t

[ConcernedCanuk]

13. Private Posses - only they chase ANYONE - with govt approval

.
.
.

just can't let go of that Old West syndrome

but

ain't they sort of like cheap mercenaries or sumpthin' ??

don't seem quite on the up 'n up to me

But I's a Canuk

whadda I know :dunce:

[phantom power]

14. Movements like this always get hijacked by the nutcases. Always.

[KansDem]

16. Let's see, will they be storming Houston's businesses...

...and arresting the business owners who hire these illegals? That's the way to end "illegal immigration."

[Maggie_May]

20. I agree

the business owners who hire these illegals are the ones breaking the law and should be punished. As long as they can get jobs they will still come over our boarders.

[0007]

17. This is all part of the “Der Führer,'s" plan.......

Poppy will soon be giving pep rallys in the Houston area in honor of his son's browshirt assholes.

A discount on joining the Minuteman? A Civil Defense Corps? Give me a fucking break, 'eh?

[jokerman93]

40. Bingo

IMHO, the Minuteman Project is philosphiccally a Blue Star Neocon creation. If you think about it, the Minuteman Project is to federal and local police enforcement what the Faith Based Initiative is to Federal assistance.

The social engineering here is that we're going to be increasingly on our own - with the lowest common denominator in society taking up the slack by providing their "services" to the community.

I'm uneasy about these things but not surprised by what's happening.

[stepnw1f]

21. This Is Nuts

Welcome to the "Thunder Dome". Frickin backwards!

[VegasWolf]

25. Hope they stay off the cheap wine while they are running around

the border waving their guns!

[jody]

26. The Texas governor should activate the Texas State Guard, part of

the "unorganized militia", see Texas State Guard.

If that's not enough people, then activate the rest of the "unorganized militia" that includes the Texas' "reserve militia" consisting of persons between 18 and 60, see CHAPTER 431. STATE MILITIA

QUOTE
§ 431.081. PERSONS SUBJECT TO MILITARY DUTY; PERSONS
NOT ELIGIBLE TO ENLIST. (a) A person is subject to military duty
if the person is:
(1) able-bodied;
(2) a citizen or a person of foreign birth who has
declared an intent to become a citizen;
(3) a resident of the state;
(4) at least 18 and not more than 60 years of age; and
(5) not exempt under Subsection (b) or (c) or United
States law.
UNQUOTE

[tanyev]

27. Oddly enough,

Sinclair Lewis in It Can't Happen Here gave the name Minute Men to the private militia of the fascist dictator who took over the USA. Prescient, no?

[TheCentepedeShoes]

33. Page 118

of my worn first edition: "The band hammered out 'The Campbells Are Coming.'" A squadron of Minute Men, smart as Horse Guards, carrying long lances with starred pennants, clicked into the gigantic bowl of the auditorium, and after them, shabby in an old blue-serge suit, nervously twisting a sweat-stained slouch hat, stooped and tired, limped Berzelius Windrip. The audience leaped up, thrusting one another aside to have a look at the deliverer, cheering like artillery at dawn."

I just opened the book at random. I need to keep it right here next to the 'puter, because I'm starting to think this is the BFEE playbook.

[tanyev]

36. I read it for the first time a couple months ago.

It blew me away, starting with the mention that sauerkraut was renamed "Liberty Cabbage".

[liberaliraqvet26]

28. Im a gun toting liberal with a concealed permit..

can I go too???

We should get some counter minuteman together.

[GoldenOldie]

29. Chris Simcox - is a wannabee???

Chris Simcox who was run outta California and set-up in Tombstone, Arizona as the owner/editor of the Tombstone paper is a phoney who has wrangled himself a few other city dudes looking to make themselves into the image of John Slaughter and Wyatt Earp.

The only thing is the famous John Slaughter ranch in Douglas, Arizona lspread across both borders and Mexicans crossed the borders freely within clear view of this historic ranch house. John Slaughter employed many of these illegals and also helped educate a few of them.

My hubby and his siblings and them my children all graduated Tombstone high school. They spent 4-hrs a day riding from the ranch to school and back. They walked the same hallways, the same town streets, ate their lunch at the same little cafe on Main St., they had a few of the same teachers, and they knew all the oldtimers by name and their families. The same buildings, saloons, theaters, boarding houses, hotels that were there for John Slaughter and Wyatt Earp are still here today and the town was classified as an Historic and protected town both by the State of Arizona and the US Historical sites.

This Dude Chris Simcox and many of his fellow Dudes have moved into Tombstone and set themselves up as defenders of the old West. They not only have trashed the original old Town .....which the State is threatening to remove the Historic status given.....they want to destroy and rebuilt to make it a Disneyland Tombstone.

Chris Simcox the dude, not only attempts to claim himself as founder of New Tombstone, but he takes on the roll of Sherrif of the Arizona Border.....which encompasses the Historic John Slaughter Ranch......

My daughter attempted to e-mail Chris Simcox on his bio and she explained who she was and why she was interested. She received the most hate-filled response and was shocked that this man could possibly have any backing from anyone no less Arizonan's.

These guys are assholes wanting to play Marshall and they are getting the press.

[DeepModem Mom]

30. Wow -- thanks for posting this inside info, GoldenOldie. nt

[wli]

31. here come the brownshirts n/t

[sakabatou]

32. I will not be going to Texas anytime soon...

Mostly because I lack the funds. Heh.

[NNN0LHI]

34. Lou Dobbs is all for these kind of pond scum

What ever became of Dobbs wife trying to get on a plane with a loaded gun? Nothing.

Don

[...of J.Temperance]

35. nothing

[Voltaire99]

37. Thugs like this...

...give illegal immigration a good name.