GALLUP: Iraq more unpopular than Vietnam War at same point

[yurbud]

This is something even amoral, cowardly DLC types should be able to understand.

This from Gallup via Thinkprogress:

Iraq War Less Popular Than Vietnam

http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/?ci=18097

Fresh analysis from Gallup:

The latest quarterly average for Iraq shows that 50% say it was a mistake to send troops (the most recent single measure on this indicator, from an Aug. 5-7 Gallup Poll, shows 54% saying the war was a mistake).

In the comparable quarter for the Vietnam War (the third quarter of the war’s third year — that is, the third quarter of 1967), Gallup found 41% saying the conflict was a mistake. It was not until the third quarter of the fourth year of the Vietnam War (August-September 1968) that a majority of Americans said the war was a mistake. In short, it took longer for a majority of Americans to view the Vietnam War as a mistake than has been the case for Iraq.

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[54anickel]

1. Uh-oh, Shrub's gonna be blamin' the "Internets"...n/t

[yurbud]

3. great quote--I use Friedman in class to show why corporations WILL

screw you.

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[wli]

5. the internet deregulation crap has already gone through

There won't be anywhere to put anything on the internet after a while. No more self-hosting websites. Hosted websites will get aggressively censored by corporate policy. And, of course, nanny software spying on people's webreading and blog posting will be used to unplug them and/or call in Homeland Offense Gestapo raids.

[Erika]

2. We learned administrations lied to us in Vietnam

and we're hearing and seeing the same lies now. We've already been there, done that.

W changes the reason we're in Iraq as fast as he changes his shirts.

[bluepilgrim]

38. What's different this time around

I see three factors. During Vietnam the memory of was of Korea and WW2, which were far different than what Vietnam turned out to be -- although Korea was moving in that direction. Now there are many who remember Vietnam, and it's significant how many of the protestors are the older people who recognize the signs -- and are experienced organizers and protestors.

Another factor is the internet, of course -- and, strangely, the propagandist news which has driven many people to the net and established a needed alternative online press. The lies were a bit TOO obvious.

That leads to the third factor: the sheer incompetence of the administration, the massive curtailment of civil rights, the right wing Christian crazies, the attacks on Social Security, the blatant corruption... these are not just imperialists, but idiotic imperialists who have bitten off far more than can be chewed. But also, the education and the political and industrial sophistication of Iraqis have made a difference: they have been quite effective in mounting a resistance. Even competent invaders would have a hard time taking over Iraq (just look at British history!). The arrogance and over-reach has been astounding.

But beware now -- desperate men do desperate things...

[cally]

39. Yes, the arrogance and overreach is astounding

Welcome to DU.

[longship]

4. Tide has turned.

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[Maggie_May]

37. Yes the tide has turned

now we need to get our Democrats in office to come out publicly and talk about how we are going to get the hell out of there. We need to call email write our Representatives and let know we what our TROOPS HOME. I didn't vote for a bunch of wimps.

[saigon68]

40. Still a lot of DINOS out there Like Losermann From CONN

An uninspiring piece of dog shit or repuke LITE if I ever saw one.

[shadowknows69]

6. maybe we did learn something then

too bad the military complex didn't

[liberalpragmatist]

7. Eh, the military wasn't that gung-ho about this

So are you mainly talking about the military-industrial complex?

In any event it was pretty much BushCo. that opted for this. I doubt most military commanders would have been very interested in it.

[Hissyspit]

9. And we all know how well Vietnam turned out.

[yurbud]

17. military industrial complex needs the accent on INDUSTRIAL

the corporate boys more than the military
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[shadowknows69]

24. That's what I meant of course

sorry for the omission. I wouldn't hurt if some of the generals on the ground would finally tell shrub and rummy that this thing is a cluster fuck and we need to get lost.

[Hissyspit]

8. Nominated. Push to the Greatest page, please, if you are so inclined.

[Hissyspit]

10. Iraq is not Vietnam, people!

Iraq is not Vietnam, people! It just looks like Vietnam. Smells like Vietnam. Quacks like Vietnam. Shits like Vietnam. Hurts like Vietnam. Goes on and on like Vietnam. Costs like Vietnam. Causes an administration to spin and lie like Vietnam. Gets young, good-natured American soldiers to unintentionally kill civilians like Vietnam. Disrupts American families like Vietnam. Disgusts like Vietnam. Kills and kills like Vietnam. But, no, it's not Vietnam.

Yeah, I've posted this before, but threads calling out for it to be posted again just seem to come up continually...

[FourStarDemocrat]

13. I enjoyed reading that paragraph of yours!

Very entertaining, and of course you hit the nail right on the bucket. I might borrow that sometime if you don't mind. :)

[Hissyspit]

14. Feel free, fourstar

[GetTheRightVote]

11. I agree, been there done that is the best notion... but I hope we get out

soon !!

:kick:

[CoffeeCat]

12. What's even more amazing...

...is that we've sustained approximately 1870 casualties. However, during the same time during the Vietnam war, we had sustained thousands more casualties.

People are in an uproar and disapproving of this war MAINLY BASED ON BUSH'S LIES AND THE FACT THAT THIS WAR WAS BASED ON INTENTIONAL DISINFORMATION FROM THE WARMONGERING NEOCONS.

People are outraged about the U.S.-soldier deaths. Every life lost was precious. However, it is clear that most of the doubt and disapproval of this war is because American is realizing that this war did not have to happen, and that we have been bamboozled by a terminal lying pResident who has no shame or conscience.

[yurbud]

18. people intuitively if unconsciously know they are lying about deaths too

There isn't any proof yet, but they are being very careful about what they count as a "combat" death.

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[Lowell]

34. Iraq is Vietnam on steroids

That is not exactly correct. True the casualties from Vietnam were high, but you must remember the first American to die was Lt. Col. A. Peter Dewey in 1945. We were involved in Vietnam for many years before the death tolls amounted to what we have seen in Iraq already. At the rate it is going right now Iraq could far surpass Vietnam in casualties if it was to last as long as that conflict. I remember when I left Vietnam in 1969 we were losing about 350 soldiers a week. If we don't get the hell out of Iraq soon we may begin to again see figures like that.

[Donailin]

15. well at least we aren't as slow on the uptake as we used to be

but still not as sharp as we should be. (by "we," I mean the idiots that live in the same country as those of us with a clue)

[GoddessOfGuinness]

16. 54% think it was a mistake, 46% think it was a crime.

Bring 'em home now.

[yurbud]

19. Is that walking toward or away from the camera?

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[GoddessOfGuinness]

20. Toward

It's an anteater. :-)

[yurbud]

21. I thought it was a tail-header

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[buddysmellgood]

22. And this is without a draft and big student protests. The cowards in

congress will be held accountable.

[PATRICK]

31. After listening to Rangel

who neither voted for the war nor caved, I will not temper my disgust with the current sate of civil leadership and other career people who define themselves in the public service sector.

But plainly there is something historically debilitating at the centers of power, a warped and opposite tradition disciplined by conformity and hardened egos, a lovefest of a community out of touch with all sorts of reality and especially the need to lead in times of crisis especially- though when it has failed in small matters who could expect more?

Blaming or waiting for the people is a topsy turvy thing since those not driven away or brought into collaborative circles by cynicism have been worked on by the worst abuses of political skills and PR support and corporate media owned by the same people who seem to own(like the devil his Faust) more legislators than the hundreds of millions of American citizens do.

At best it is sad, pathetic and rending that ANYONE had to die for these venal WH idiots and mankind hating fanatics. Sad they can't get out of the club and see the world for what it is and the people groping in the deliberate murk our "leader" supported and hide in. I always felt that we needed a new generation, a LARGE generation of much better leaders and the reforms that would naturally follow and that the REAL moral majority positively desire. And as this pathetic excuse for the grand implacable evil is so visible so easily countered, so untouched by supposedly sane and responsible people we were wrong to ever delegate so much trust and goodwill. Now when the evil of mankind has shown its nexus and its nexus is demented and weak, it sits comfortably on all the raw physical power and gilded thrones of old age intruding onto an unprecedented human dawn fraught with dire challenges where the feeble distractions of mammonites create needless, ridiculous catastrophes.

The world was never quite turned upside down. The slaves were freed enough. The Nazis were never obliterated enough. We never had enough democracy or the best leadership(though we certainly had brighter). But we can and must do better. If we have to lead from below there will come a day when those on top will not have to be lead but will always be in the forefront of what is right. Pretty much this whole generation must pass away in the desert before that day.

Too easily diverted to turn to fear and destroy nations. Too obsequious to the club to the butts that invaded chairs of service intending to loot the sheep. Too ignorant of things easily known to logic easily arrived at. Fallen too short to lead people buried by liars Congressmen shake hands with every day.

It would drive Gandhi to incendiary rants at this time to see so many casualties so needlessly slaughtered by civilities wrongly conferred on the enemies of the civilized world.

[Miss Chybil]

23. They had real "communists" to wave in everybody's face

back during Vietnam. The communists were going to rape us all and eat our babies. All Bush has is invisible WMDs. Of course, people are catching on faster. Even so, it's still two years and thousands of people too late.

[slay]

25. Take note Dems - get on the anti-war bus NOW or be left behind

with those creepy republicans. Ick.

[leftchick]

26. Didn't the Democrats hold an Iraq pow-wow in June?

To come up with a coherent and consistent message on Iraq? If that message is the more troops bullshit I have been hearing from Biden and Hil they are soooooo going to regret it.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

27. How many of these dipsticks thought it was a good idea before it started?

The sad thing is that any dumb SOB (me) who gave a second thought at the time could see how pointless this war was from the beginning. If Iraq had been that significant of a threat then Israel would have bombed the hell out of it long before we got involved.

[MrTriumph]

28. Oh, pls don't pick on our poor, misinformed Dem.s in congress

Jellyfish hate to admit they were wrong.

(Note to those Dem.s in congress that voted against the war: Hurrah for you! Let's hope your wisdom and courage will inspire the others).

[Liberal Isti]

29. I couldn't agree more...

It was this illegal war that got me involved in politics in the first place. At that time, I didn't know shit about shit. :dunce: Yet, I still was able to put two and two together and realize that

1) Afghanistan and Iraq are two different countries, and

2) If we go start a war against that U.N.'s authorization, we were doing something ILLEGAL.

I'll still never figure out why more people didn't see it that way at the time. :mad:

[OfireitupO]

30. The media literally

Pimped this war.

[paineinthearse]

32. identical info posted at identical time in GDP

see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2033173&mesg_id=2033173

[BlueJac]

33. Step it up

Stop the loss of US lives. Get out now!!


:kick::kick::kick: :kick::kick::kick:

[bunkerbuster1]

35. Gallup? the Republican-friendly pollster's saying this?

hmm. can you say "Cover our backpedalling come '06," peeps?

[ballaratocker]

36. The corporate media pimped this war...

and continue to do so. I love reading so many beltway journalists who praise Democratic presidential hopeful who voted for the war as 'being strong on national defence' as though that advantages them.