Sunni Says No Deal Reached on Constitution (End of the Road)

[leftchick]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050826/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

BAGHDAD, Iraq - A top Sunni Arab negotiator said Saturday that no agreement has been reached on the draft constitution and called on Iraqis to reject it in an Oct. 15 referendum. A government spokesman indicated talks were hopelessly deadlocked and said "this is the end of the road."

The Sunni negotiator, Saleh al-Mutlaq, made the statement on Al-Jazeera television after Sunnis studied compromise proposals offered by the Shiites on federalism and purges of former members of Saddam Hussein's Baath Party.

"The issue of division through federalism is on the table," al-Mutlaq said. "The Iraqi people have to give their word now and reject the constitution because this constitution is the beginning of the division of the country and the beginning of creating disturbance in the country."

Asked about Shiite offers, he replied: "We are still far from what we need and what the people need."

A Shiite negotiator, Khaled al-Attiyah, said a "consensus" had been reached on the charter and an amended version would be sent to parliament Saturday. Asked about that, al-Mutlaq said simply: "Let them."

[Rainscents]

1. Well, Bush.......... They ain't buying into your shit!

[Carla in Ca]

18. Look At This!!!

<http://www.theleftcoaster.com/>


Iraqis Reach Impasse On Constitution - "This Is The End Of The Road"
After Bush personally intervened today and tried to pressure the Shiites to compromise (something he himself has no concept of), a government spokesman has now said that the parties are hopelessly deadlocked and that “this is the end of the road.� The Shiites want to take the constitution directly to the voters without a consensus, and the Sunnis are now telling their brethren to vote down the constitution in October.

Bush's overture, made in a telephone call to a top Shiite leader, did little to calm the increasingly strident rhetoric. A process designed to bring Iraq's disparate communities together appeared to be tearing them apart.
Sadoun Zubaydi, a Sunni member of the drafting committee, had said he did not expect an end to the constitutional impasse soon and blamed the Americans for interfering in what was supposed to be an Iraqi process.
"Bush's hypocrisy is huge — in January he wouldn't allow a postponement of parliamentary elections to allow all groups to prepare properly because he was trying to sugarcoat everything that happens here for his domestic audience," Zubaydi said.
"Now, he's calling the Shiites and issuing instructions that they should not ignore the group that was marginalized in those defective elections. ... To the last minute, this supposedly Iraqi process is being dictated by the U.S. government."


Swell. George, the Pottery Barn is calling.

[Just Me]

2. This sucks.

*sigh*

I really, REALLY do wish those folks would unite and find a way to reach consensus. Why can't they commit to a co-existent, secular, peaceful existence? If they did that, it would leave few to no excuses for a US occupation.

Geez.

[The_Casual_Observer]

3. The whole idea was nutty. Iraq has no concept western style civility

and it would take years and years if ever to develop it. I'm not sure that outside of Europe the west has any concept of it either.

[pocket]

4. silly wogs, eh?

.

[Zhade]

29. Nice!

:thumbsup:

[NNN0LHI]

5. "western style civility" Did you forget the sarcasm tag?

Ask some native Americans about western style civility some time. You might be surprised what they have to say.

Don

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. A lot more blood needs to be shed in Iraq before they can claim to be

"civilized" in the sense of the westward expansion, however they are getting there with lots of help from the US government. Saddam was a pussycat compared to what Iraq has in store for it if they don't start getting into line with the pnac program. Cheney isn't used to losing.

[NNN0LHI]

8. I fully understand now n/t

[bemildred]

19. The Menezes Syndrome

Ironically, the white man continues to be called ‘cultured’ and the rest as ‘hadjis’, ‘brutes’, and ‘ragheads’. This incongruity cannot be clearer than in the answer of an Indian to a taunting European settler. The Indian said, “White man, you have wiped us out, you stole our lands, you destroyed our homes, and you raped our women and brought deadly diseases to our people. You have done all the unthinkable crimes anyone can imagine. It does not hurt me any more. What truly hurts my people and me is that despite all these crimes you have committed against my people, we are considered savages and you the "civilized" people. That truly hurts me the most!"

http://malakandsky.blogspot.com/2005/07/menezes-syndrome.html

[DesEtoiles]

22. you are wrong

[alcibiades_mystery]

26. The "civilized" West started this war and the "civilized" Americans

cheer like lunatics when the "towelheads" get greased.

Who's fucking civilized? Because you cut down a village with cluster bombs rather than cutting off a hostage's head, your suddenly a higher development of human? Gimme a fucking break.

[EST]

14. Generations

[reprobate]

23. That's because Iraq is an artificial country. There's no affinity between

the opposing factiions. The Sunnis have no common ground with the Shias and both oppose the Kurds.

The one thing we all forcast is now about to come true.

Civil war.

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. No, this is a specific issue about governance and policy

This has nothing to do with whether the Iraqi people can "handle" democracy. They can handle democracy, just like everybody else; the Sunni,m however, can not handle being divested of the predominantly Shiite and Kurd areas of the country, and secularists can't handle the notion that theire laws will have to comport with some imams interpretation of sharia.

There is no need to invent some racist argument to explain a very cut and dry governance issue.

[dchill]

27. You mean they're all...

Republicans?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

6. Let the Civil War begin!

[henslee]

9. Time for a mini nuke.

[Rex]

10. A war profiteers wetdream!

Sell weapons to the Federation and the Klingons! Fabulous!

[PurityOfEssence]

11. Three groups with only one thing in common:

the desire to fuck two other groups. Okay, maybe the Kurds just want to have independence and take their oil with them.

The Shiites want total domination of their part of the country at the very least, and many want the whole country and it's oil.

The Sunnis just don't happen to live where there isn't very much oil, and they're only about 20% of the population; then again, Sunnis are by far and away the majority of Islam, and the Saudis are standing right there to help. Even so, Saudi Arabia's such a mess right now that there's not much they can do.

If the Kurds get any serious autonomy, the Turks, Iranians and Syrians will kick up a ruckus.

What a huge, complex and ugly mess. We've bungled it at every step of the way with a sheer artistry of fuckupedness that it's a veritable symphony of idiocy. Things are going to get messy now...

[FreeStateDemocrat]

13. What's this "we" stuff kemosabe it's entirely the idiot's war, he broke it

[PurityOfEssence]

16. Whether you like it or not, we are responsible for our nation's actions

We benefit from them, we suffer by them and we have some voice.

To not take some responsibility for letting this happen is legitimate, of course, but it's a bit more than just a literary tool. In our name, we've engaged in untold acts of suppression and outright thievery.

I can hold my head high and point out my political activism and consistent stances back before I could even vote, but we are part of a nation and culture that benefits from and suffers for the actions of those who manage to get themselves into power.

Don't get your loincloth in a knot, Tonto, I'm just admitting that we all bear some responsibility for this having come to pass. Some are more culpable than others, and some are truly innocent, but the truth remains: our society let this happen, and the acceptance of a bit of responsibility is a good thing.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

21. I place the blame where it belongs; the repukes controlled both houses

and the executive branch as well as manipulating the mainstream media. Don’t preach to me about my responsibilities as a citizen I exercised my rights and voted against the idiot twice and presented vigorous opposition to this debacle as soon as the nitwits proposed it. I went through the same bullshit during Viet Nam and I will not take responsibility for the greed and arrogance of a corrupt ruling class in what use to be a democracy but is now an oligarchy. I was mostly kidding before but I really don’t appreciate your smugness and fallacious judgements. I may bear responsibility for many lapses in personal judgements but this is not one of them. I will let the clown in the White House shoulder all the blame that he so richly deserves as a reward for his irresponsible misdeeds.

[Zhade]

30. Do you pay your taxes? If so, you're complicit.

So am I.

[PurityOfEssence]

31. You're factually wrong and out of line

When the IWR was ginned up and run through, the Senate was controlled by the Democrats.

You are the one who's smug. I'm admitting the guilt of being part of a deeply disfunctional country, whereas you're picking and choosing your culpability.

Somehow these assholes run the country. I'm willing to take responsibility for the ugliness that has taken this country by the throat. Although I've fought and voted against it for years--consistently, mind you--you're the one who attacked me. I didn't attack you. I merely stated that we who benefit from the rapacious corporatism are all a part of it. If you want to stack your bona fides against mine, go ahead, but do it through PMs.

I am being honorable by taking some modicum of responsibility for the ugly actions of my fellow citizens. Not only were you not attacked, you attacked me, so to feign outrage and having been abused is aggressive hypocrisy.

We have to face the world and try to make this good. That's a tall order, but those of us with some decency--among whom I count you, dammit--need to accept the communal responsibility of our ongoing abuse of the rest of the world.

[Gregorian]

12. Time for us to bug out. Bring Wesley Clark to the rescue, possibly.

My plan would be to impeach and convict those who got us into this mess, then get Wesley Clark on the scene to work with them, IF they were amenable to that. I don't know who "they" is, though. The civilians of that country need protection.

[VegasWolf]

15. Wa 2 Go Bush! U Da Man!!! BARF!

[FreeStateDemocrat]

17. NYT: Iraqis to Press Ahead With Charter as Talks With Sunnis Fail

By DEXTER FILKINS
and JAMES GLANZ
Published: August 26, 2005 6:30 PM ET

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Saturday, Aug. 27 - Shiite and Kurdish leaders drafting a new Iraqi constitution broke off negotiations with a group of Sunni Arab leaders early Saturday, deciding to press ahead with the document as written and take it directly to the Iraqi people.\

The Shiite and Kurdish leaders said they had run out of patience with the Sunni leaders, a group that included several former members of Saddam Hussein's Baath party, who they said had refused to budge on a pair of critical issues that were holding up completion of the constitution.

The Shiite and Kurdish leaders made the decision during a meeting that stretched past midnight, finally deciding to disregard the pleas of Sunni leaders to give them a couple of more days to negotiate
.
Shiite and Kurdish leaders played down the importance of the Sunni leaders they left behind, saying they had never spoken for Iraq's Sunni community in the first place. The Iraqi leaders who drafted the constitution said they had forged a constitution that would ensure the unity of the country and safeguard the rights of the people.

http://nytimes.com/2005/08/26/international/middleeast/26cnd-iraq.html?p&ex=1125115200&en=701630f62f7eee42&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[leftchick]

20. like that will help

they/we/all of us are so fucked. Bring The Troops Home! :(

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. LOL: This is like Bush's pledge to get UN Security Council consent

for the invasion. For weeks it was the most important thing going on, and we learned all about the various members and temporary members and where they stood and what concessions they might make. It was the ONLY news story up until about three weeks prior to the war. The narrative arc was simple: The US good. France, China, Russia bad, and watch as the good triumph in the negotiations! Bzzzzzzzt. Then it became apparent that the US would not win the vote, so no vote was called, and we went in without the much-desired UN Security Council imprimatur. And you never heard about it again.

Same deal here. For weeks the most important thing was parliamentary consensus on the constitution. The narrative arc was clear: diverse groups sit at a table, work out the constitution, and agree to it. The process, as Dr. Rice squawked again and again: THE PROCESS. Bzzzzzt. The process doesn't turn out the right product, so it will go right in the memory hole: The Sunnis weren't really involved anyway, and neither the Shi'a nor the Kurds need to Sunni to finalize the document. Forget everything you've been hearing! Forget! Forget! Needless to say, this will lead to as great a catastrophe as the UN work-around. But will anyone remember?

[Spazito]

24. The key phrase in all of this, imo, is this one...

"Bush's hypocrisy is huge — in January he wouldn't allow a postponement of parliamentary elections to allow all groups to prepare properly because he was trying to sugarcoat everything that happens here for his domestic audience,"

Every time line imposed upon the Iraqis had nothing to do with them and everything to do with bush's base and his support.

Failure is inevitable because there never was a 'noble cause'.