Iraq insurgents guilty of war crimes -rights group

[sabra]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L02313037.htm

Iraq insurgents guilty of war crimes -rights group


AMMAN, Oct 3 (Reuters) - Iraqi insurgents are committing war crimes by attacking civilians in their fight against U.S. forces, the New-York based Human Rights Watch said on Monday.

Although the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq and the ensuing occupation resulted in tens of thousands of civilian deaths, and abuses that enraged many Iraqis, this was no justification for deliberate killings of civilians, it said.

"The deliberate targeting of civilians during an armed conflict constitutes a war crime," Human Rights Watch said in a 140-page study, released in Jordan.

"Armed groups as well as governments must respect the laws of war," said Sarah Leah Whitson, director of Human Rights Watch's Middle East and North Africa Division.

[Fenris]

1. Well...um...no shit.

[tainowarrior]

2. Did HRW specify which insurgent groups

because if there's just blanket painting the entire insurgency as human rights violating, I'm disregarding this report. I agree the suicide bombers and jihadists are, but not the ones legitimately resisting.

HRW should be careful not to become a propaganda arm of the West.

[The Magistrate]

12. The Organization Knows Its Business, Sir

From the article....


Human Rights Watch said the Iraqi wing of al Qaeda, Ansar al-Sunna and the Islamic Army in Iraq had all abducted and executed civilians.

"The first two groups have repeatedly boasted about massive car bombs and suicide bombs in mosques, markets, bus stations and other civilian areas," the report said.

...


"Even some attacks against legitimate military targets, such as army convoys, were conducted in such a manner that the foreseeable loss of civilian life was greatly disproportionate to the military gain."

Previous Human Rights Watch reports have documented the U.S. military's use of indiscriminate and excessive force, illegal detentions, and the use of torture at prisons such as Abu Ghraib, as well as torture by the Iraqi police.

(The full report can be seen at www.hrw.org/reports/2005/iraq1005

[tainowarrior]

13. notice this quote

"Even some attacks against legitimate military targets, such as army convoys, were conducted in such a manner that the foreseeable loss of civilian life was greatly disproportionate to the military gain."

How is this different from the U.S.? That's war. If the legitimate insurgency is targeting military targets and collateral damage occurs, too bad. That's a war. The aggressors bear the culpability for facilitating and enabling an environment in which this occurs, the resistance has no choice but to resist. They can't hold back on their resistance in order to avoid civilian casualties. They're in a life or death struggle with the world's mightiest army.

I'm sorry, but with respect to the legitimate Iraqi insurgency, this report is bullshit. It's another attempt to mix Foreign Jihadists with the Nationalist Insurgency.

[The Magistrate]

16. It Is Not Different, Sir

Much of the conduct by both sides violates this particular of the laws of war. Your claim that one side must bear the onus for another's violation has no basis in law on the matter: acting in a good cause by one's own lights does not convey a right to violate the law in furtherance of that cause. An organization dedicated to upholding the law in such matters could not do otherwise than point this out. Charges such as this cannot be one-sided, or those making them will never be taken seriously by anyone, and the idea of violation of the laws of war be reduced to a mere propagandists club, rather than a real and weighty thing.

[tainowarrior]

17. well, I'll concede

that in legalisms, you're right and HRW should remain objectively non-partisan on the matter.

But, on the field of legitimacy, I give the insurgency legitimacy. If you invade my country, I'll fight you in anyway possible, and to hell with HRW or Amnesty International until I'm done throwing you out.

Then, after that, I'll worry about respecting human rights.

[marmar]

3. They aren't the only ones...

:eyes:

[cal04]

4. Iraq insurgents committing war crimes, rights group says

Human Rights Watch says Iraqi insurgents are committing war crimes by deliberately targeting and killing civilians. The group has called on Islamic religious and political leaders to condemn the attacks. "There are no justifications for targeting civilians, in Iraq or anywhere else," Sarah Leah Whitson, director of the Middle East and North Africa division for Human Rights Watch, said. "Armed groups as well as governments must respect the laws of war," Ms Whitson said.

In a 140-page report, the New York-based group documents how civilians have been terrorised and systematically killed in assassinations and bombings by armed insurgents. While some insurgents and their supporters in the Arab world have sought to justify the attacks, the report seeks to debunk their arguments.
"The deliberate targeting of civilians during an armed conflict constitutes a war crime," the group said.

The report describes the assassinations of government officials, politicians, judges, journalists, humanitarian aid workers, doctors, professors and those deemed to be collaborating with the foreign forces in Iraq, including translators, cleaners and others who perform civilian jobs for the US-led force."Political and religious leaders in Iraq and abroad who support the insurgency should also condemn unlawful attacks," the report, entitled "A Face, A Name: Civilian Victims of Insurgent Groups in Iraq", said.

"People we have spoken with in the Middle East are increasingly repulsed by the behaviour of insurgent groups in Iraq, even if they support a withdrawal of US troops," Ms Whitson said. "It is time for political and religious leaders who support the insurgency to denounce the atrocities in public." Human Rights Watch, which monitors civil liberties around the world, has previously criticised the United States over its occupation of Iraq, accusing the military and Iraqi government forces of using excessive force and torturing detainees. The report states that the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003 and subsequent occupation resulted in tens of thousands of civilian deaths and "sparked the emergence of these insurgent groups".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200510/s1473272.htm

[The Magistrate]

5. An Even-Handed Organization, Ma'am

Could do no less.

[ninkasi]

18. Correct, Sir

Both sides are inflicting great harm on the people of Iraq. The fact that we started the conflict in no way excuses acts of atrocity committed by the insurgents, or by rival factions who target each other.

My concern is that Iraq will be used as an example by other countries who have their own agendas against each other. The United States, by claiming some mythical moral authority has set the stage for a great deal of aggression and enormous pain and suffering for innocent people world wide.

[aquart]

6. We keep thinking they'll play by the script we write.

Uh, no.

[Rowdyboy]

7. A horrific fiasco that we have deliberately brought about.....

[marmar]

8. They're not alone...

There's a certain occupying regime that's doing the same.

[Oversea Visitor]

9. Duuuuh

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Gee I hope US media not going to spin this to the world. Wait your President might hmmmm .... :rofl:

[applegrove]

10. Yup. No excuse for not protecting civilians. Killing them as policy is

a war crime at the very least.

[FloridaPat]

14. But isn't * also doing war crimes? Aren't we killing civilians right and

left over there?

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tainowarrior]

15. if the troops do it

they're to blame.

Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal stipulates that lower-officers/soldiers cannot use the excuse of being "ordered" to do something as a defense for war crimes.

I'm sorry, but in the Iraq conflict, everyone has dirt on themselves (including insurgents). But I put much of the blame on the people who brought the war to them, not to the side which is forced to resist to defend their homeland.

[confludemocrat]

19. This is not about "actually win an election". No excuses to justify US war

crimes, not even that sorry-ass rationale.