NYT: Thousands of Demolitions Near, New Orleans Braces for New Pain

[Pirate Smile]

NEW ORLEANS, Oct. 22 - As crews begin inspecting thousands of rotting houses and preservationists begin efforts to save them, city and federal officials say that 30,000 to 50,000 of the city's houses will probably have to be demolished.

That number, though smaller than some earlier predictions, nonetheless represents more than a quarter of the city's housing stock. A few weeks from now, when giant track excavators begin tearing into homes that once sheltered families and nest eggs, the city will experience one of the most painful moments of its ordeal.

"Really, the whole scope of this thing is hard to get your mind around," said Allen Morse, who will be in charge of the demolition effort for the Army Corps of Engineers. "It's going to be a huge task."

Already the dreaded bright red-orange stickers blaring "unsafe" have begun to proliferate on houses, signaling what is becoming a passionate debate over the extent of the demolition.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/23/national/nationalspecial/23demolish.html?hp&ex=1130126400&en=3e333008113e35c9&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[meisje]

1. anything made of wood will have to be dozed

[Skink]

2. Careful around those levees please.

[markus]

16. Absolutely false

Homes build in the 19th century and before--using cypress and virgin pine and construction techniques that address pervasive dampness and periodic flooding, need not be demolished. Most of these homes have been flooded several times before.

It's the suburban ranch-on-a-slab homes in Lakeview and New Orleans East, for example, that are mostly likely doomed.

Most of the Ninth Ward had water up to seven feet above the ground floor in Hurricane Betsy, for example.

[pitohui]

20. you are mistaken if you think the lower 9th ward was built in 19th c.

i'm shaking my head at the wrong-headedness of this claim, it just ain't so

don't expect you to believe pitohui, so why don't you read a history of the place:

http://www.gnocdc.org/orleans/8/22/snapshot.html

By 1950, only half of the Lower Ninth Ward had been developed. Industrial development during this time was along the dry docks of the Industrial Canal with a few scattered uses appearing in predominately residential sectors at the north end of the neighborhood. In the late 1950s, the second bridge between the city and the Lower Ninth Ward, The Judge William Seeber Bridge, known locally as the Claiborne Avenue Bridge, was built across the Industrial Canal at Claiborne Avenue. Retail development along St. Claude Avenue became notable during this period and the trend of corner stores continued. By 1965 commercial activity along St. Claude continued to grow and industrial development accelerated in the strip bordering the Industrial Canal between Claiborne and Florida Avenues. Scattered industrial and commercial uses throughout residential areas of the district continued as well.

i do know folks w. a house built of cypress, in mid-city tho, & guess what, it has mold & has had it for at least 15 yrs, it has also had to be treated in a termite tent at great expense, the myth of the immortal cypress is just that, a myth -- oh it was built in 1917, which i consider the 20th century, yet it has still had serious issues over the years requiring over two hundred thousand dollars in restoration

the place should be rebuilt on stilts, as should gentilly and lakeview, or the levees should be built to a higher standard OR BOTH

the gov't should not cheap out, ppl were told they didn't need flood insurance, that it was zone c, the gov't should recompense them handsomely & not just give them a couple thousand bucks to gut their seriously damaged homes

no excuses, dangerous homes should be bulldozed and replaced, ppl should not be returned to danger yet again

but do not tell people their destroyed homes weren't destroyed, it's just silliness & a refusal to face up to the size & expense of the job ahead of us

here are some photos taken by a friend who prefers to remain anonymous from the 9th ward near the breach:









denial isn't helping anyone move forward

condemn the totalled homes, put the money in people's hands, & give them a damn grant to rebuild on stilts

don't put ppl back in harm's way by telling them what is cheap & easy to say, how many times does the damn neighborhood have to be wiped out?

[markus]

24. Are we speaking specifically of the Ninth Ward?

Then, no.

Which Ninth Ward are we speaking of? Holy Cross? The area between St. Claude and Florida? Or Desire.

There are more than one Ninth Ward, in many ways.

I am taking about the statement that all wood construction will have to be demolished. I still asser that is flatly wrong.

Most of what you are thinking of as the Ninth Ward is post war construction, and was innundated longer and deeper than Betsy, and is likely to face demolition.

Like the Ninth Ward, Lakeview--which is largely mid- to late-twentieth century construction--will likely have to be demolished.

Other areas of the city, I would argue, may or may not. In particular, I worry about the nineteenth century housing stock of the flood prone parts of Uptown and Midcity. Yes, houses in New Orleans have mold problems. And the nasty Formosan Termites are an entirely seperate discussion.

[fearnobush]

3. How many missing loved ones will be bull dozed in those homes?

I say at least two thousand.

Passerby discovers decomposing body hidden among storm debris

01:18 PM CDT on Friday, October 21, 2005

WWLTV.com

New Orleans Police are trying to identify a body which was found Friday morning among debris left over from Hurricane Katrina.


At about 9 a.m., someone on North Rampart and Elysian Fields found the body on the neutral ground and flagged down some National Guard troops.


The body had been put in a trunk and was badly decomposed.


Authorities have not identified the body, and were unsure of the gender of the body. Police ruled it an unclassified death as of Friday afternoon.

<http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/wwl102105body.1178defe8.html>

[fooj]

4. It's shameful. It's criminal.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

RIP.

[brer cat]

5. Who is making the choices...art dealers and hairdressers????

Adding to the text above from the same article:

"The process has not been without hiccups. The Shaw Group, the construction company that is providing many of the inspectors to the corps, provoked complaints this week from the corps and city building officials that some people hired as inspectors, including a retired art dealer and a hairdresser, were unqualified to make structural appraisals."

I know and love many hairdressers and art dealers, but I would NEVER ask one to to provide advise on structural damage to my house! Sounds like asking a vet to be a woman's doctor to me...typical bush ignorance.

[jobycom]

6. Excellent post! Welcome aboard!

I'd forgotten about the vet.

[kestrel91316]

7. Not quite. More like asking a hairdresser or art dealer to be a

woman's doctor.

A bit of information for you and the other vet-haters who abound on DU: veterinarians are doctors. So are physicians. Those poor uneducated, limited things (the physicians)are qualified to work on only one species. We (the vets) are qualified to work on ALL THE OTHERS. Who knows more?

Of course, if you subscribe to the fundamentalist belief that man was created by god in god's image, and the lowly animals are not related in any way to humans, then vets couldn't possibly know anything at all about human medicine. But as we know, man is merely one animal species among many, and a VERY close relative to other mammals.

We vets are REQUIRED to learn certain aspects of human medicine where they apply to public health and zoonotic diseases, as the physicians are woefully ignorant about these things for the most part (though one would think it's THEIR responsibility). I routinely have to do an obstetrician's job if a client gets pregnant and wants to know how to avoid getting toxoplasmosis. Generally her OB-Gyn pleads ignorance or gives gross misinformation.

:rant:

[brer cat]

8. no, no, no...i'm a vet lover

but just don't think that is the best choice that * admin had for women's health. I have had cats and dogs for 30 years, and my vets have been wonderful.

[kestrel91316]

9. Of course not. we all know that a research-oriented OB-Gyn

would be the best choice for that position as the head of Women's Health. But I got really ticked off at all the insults that were and still are being thrown around about veterinarians over it. Like we are too dumb to mop the floors, let alone be involved in a medical bureaucracy.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

12. Who are you calling a jerk?

She has the right to speak her mind on DU without being attacked by you.

[pitohui]

14. nice post, kestrel

here's a shout-out for the vets, mine is a real hero

[countmyvote4real]

10. What about the florists and the other gay stereotypes?

Don't you know there must have been some hair stylists that were speculating those properties?

Your gay hating agenda stops here.

[watrwefitinfor]

13. Welcome to DU, brer cat!

:hi:

Don't let the hasty words take the wind out of your sails. DU is usually very friendly to newcomers. Sometimes we may be too quick to take umbrage at innocent remarks. We've been under a lot of pressure for the last, oh, five years or so.

Please don't be intimidated. We need people like you who see the Bush regime for what it is. I'm certain you will receive many more friendly welcomes here.

Wat

[pitohui]

15. well...not to defend the excesses of the shaw group but...

in many cases all you have to be is not be legally blind to see that a structure has to go

i'd be ok with my hairdresser slapping a condemned sticker on these houses in venice:



or this in the 9th ward:



reality is the zone of destruction is so huge that in many cases we just need bodies to get the paperwork rolling so ppl can get their damn settlements, get the damn mess knocked down, & start anew w. their lives

[cyberpj]

17. The Shaw Group

http://www.shawgrp.com/About/default.aspx

Don't know much about it.

Might be interesting to look into it though.

[pitohui]

22. there's some grumbling

the usual grumbling that they are padding expenses, etc.

i don't know anything other than a few muttered rumors tho

could be perfectly legitimate

[msongs]

23. are the MORTGAGES and monthly payments being bulldozed too? nt

[newyawker99]

25. Hi brer cat!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[jwirr]

18. Years ago my family had two homes in a small

flood.One had three feet of water for 24 hours. We had to take all the insides out up to that height. Even with that work we still had problems with mold in places we did not find it for years after.

The other house had water up to six feet for 48 hours. It was intact but would have had to be totally refurbished to make it livable. It is not just about wood and foundations. It also means plaster walls, inside block walls, mold that can cause health issues for years to come. If we had it to do again my family would have been better off if we would have realized just how dangerous our home was.

[SoCalDem]

19. House that were owned by poor people will be the ones to go first

because once the "property" is just a plot of sewage/oil soaked dirt, the value of it is negligible, and they will have to accept pennies in compensation.. If they had a mortgage, the bank will claim the land and the people will just have to walk away.. there is nothing to "sell", so there is no way to "make money".. If the home was owned outrignt, the record sear4ch that would prove it will take a lot longer than the demolition, and the people who owned it are probably cooling their heels in Deadwood South Dakota or Houston, and they will find out about their property in a letter , some months from now..

The "Old" floods were silt, water and sewage,..The "new" floods are a petro-chemical stew that NO ONE knows the long term exposure risks..

I think that people whose homes were totally damaged, might not even want to risk their children's lives on returning..

It's a shame..all around, but I don't see the "Old New Orleans" re-emerging..

The Garden district, the port district, the FQ and the chemical areas will still be there, but the rest is up for grabs.. The greediest will be the winners..

Poor people will no longer call NO home

[pitohui]

21. why so negative?

because once the "property" is just a plot of sewage/oil soaked dirt, the value of it is negligible, and they will have to accept pennies in compensation..

this is not the case, no one is giving pennies on the dollar in compensation

i know a woman whose house was appraised at $170,000 before katrina in st. bernard parish, it was wiped out of course but it was part of the murphy oil spill, murphy oil has already made her an offer of $220,000 -- that is not pennies on the dollar, that is a small bonus for her trouble, altho agreed the woman would have rather had her home but she already knows she won't be allowed to rebuild on that spot

& of course most homes are not located in the oil spill area but if they are, i already know for a fact that murphy oil is not going away, they are going to do the right thing because they are going to bring this refinery back online

ppl don't really need to hear a lot of negativity right now & in any case i don't think murphy oil intends to cheat anyone, maybe don't take their first offer, but what i'm hearing is pretty fair