WP: Rove's Future Role Is Debated, White House May Seek Fresh Start...

[Rose Siding]

White House May Seek Fresh Start In Wake of Leak

By Jim VandeHei and Carol D. Leonnig
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, November 3, 2005; Page A01

Top White House aides are privately discussing the future of Karl Rove, with some expressing doubt that President Bush can move beyond the damaging CIA leak case as long as his closest political strategist remains in the administration.

If Rove stays, which colleagues say remains his intention, he may at a minimum have to issue a formal apology for misleading colleagues and the public about his role in conversations that led to the unmasking of CIA operative Valerie Plame, according to senior Republican sources familiar with White House deliberations.

While Rove faces doubts about his White House status, there are new indications that he remains in legal jeopardy from Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald's criminal investigation of the Plame leak. The prosecutor spoke this week with an attorney for Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper about his client's conversations with Rove before and after Plame's identity became publicly known because of anonymous disclosures by White House officials, according to two sources familiar with the conversation.

Fitzgerald is considering charging Rove with making false statements in the course of the 22-month probe, and sources close to Rove -- who holds the titles of senior adviser and White House deputy chief of staff -- said they expect to know within weeks whether the most powerful aide in the White House will be accused of a crime.

But some top Republicans said yesterday that Rove's problems may not end there........

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/02/AR2005110203276.html

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. I am positively ablaze with schadenfreude.

Poor, poor KKKarl. :evilgrin:

[texpatriot2004]

2. What does that word mean again? nm

[opiate69]

3. Basically it means..

taking extreme pleasure in your enemy's downfall..

[Child_Of_Isis]

6. You are bad.

But, I like you.:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[opiate69]

24. hehe

:evilgrin:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. Taking pleasure in the misfortune of others.

I will experience great glee if KKKarl goes down.

[Child_Of_Isis]

9. You are bad also.

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Sugar Smack]

40. Then so am I. LOL!

:rofl:

[NYC Liberal]

5. "Issue" an apology? If jail is not where he's headed, I want a televised

SPEECH. Make him crawl out from the dark corner and shine the light on him.

[kurth]

7. An "apology"?? Rove is a thick-skinned pig

who is completely immune to either shame or contrition.

[Rose Siding]

11. This indicates that the e-mail to Levine was what BUSTED him,

not what gave Fitz "pause" in charging him, as Rove's lawyer has been spinning it.

Sources close to Rove say one pressing problem for him is that he initially did not tell investigators he had a conversation with Cooper, then he produced an e-mail to a colleague in which he reported he had spoken to Cooper. He told the grand jury he could recollect very little of the conversation other than a discussion of welfare, sources said.

[DeepModem Mom]

20. Does that refer to an e-mail that came to light earlier, Rose?

I thought the purpose of producing the last-minute e-mail was that it contained no reference to Plame, supposedly proving that Rove wasn't totally engaged in his effort to out Plame -- which seemed really lame to all of us when you, I think, posted about it.

But could be my memory is as foggy as Rove's, and I'm too sleepy to google!

[Rose Siding]

32. That's how "lawyers familiar with the case" spun it to the LAT

snip>
As recently as Tuesday, for example, prosecutors began to focus on a 2003 e-mail exchange between Rove and a White House colleague. The exchange could be seen as supporting Rove's contention that he had not intentionally misled investigators.....

Levine told investigators that Rove had not brought up Plame or the Cooper conversation — suggesting that the topics were not priorities for Rove at the time.

"Levine's acknowledgment that the Cooper conversation did not come up in my client's conversation with Rove seems to support a theory that it just wasn't that important to Rove and could therefore have been easily forgotten," said Daniel French, Levine's attorney.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-na-rove29oct29,1,3022936.story

But this article is giving it a different role.

[DeepModem Mom]

41. I see -- thanks! nt

[wordpix]

54. Rover remembers he talked to Cooper about welfare, but can't recall

any conversation about the CIA leak/Plame. Oh, Karl, you're always so concerned about the poor, thank you for speaking with Cooper about welfare because we know what a staunch advocate of the poor you are.
NOT!

[Imagevision]

73. Even Nixon said his biggest mistake was not apologizing, if he did

the american people would have accepted it -- but not lying to the bitter end ---dumb fu*k...just like Rove -- I hope Rove makes no apologies although in his case he's still history, just a matter of a few more weeks.

[Rose Siding]

8. Oooo, they're admitting to staff tension, ticked off about

Rove lying to McClellan. And they are worried that unless something's done, Rove will be a liability in 06. :bounce:

[Erika]

10. But what will Bush do if his brain is removed

We have to face the fact that W is a joke. A total joke. So what do we do when we realize the Right Wing has engineered a total joke as the President? A sad time for our country,indeed.

[Einstein99]

70. Puppet strings

With Libby gone, if Rove leaves the White House, who will be left to pull Bush's puppet strings? Cheney? Rice? Rumsfeld?

[DeepModem Mom]

12. Wow! Two things -- one, who's leaking this disaffection to the WP? Two...

if we thought Frist blew a gasket yesterday, imagine Shrub having to let go of Rove. He knows he's Rove's creation, and very little more.

[forintegrity]

15. Wrong.

He doesn't have a clue he's Rove's creation cuz he's too stupid to know anything. He probably thinks he's God's answer to America and knows that cuz God told him so!!!

[Norquist Nemesis]

23. Except Rove can still be a CONsultant

Somehow, if Rove's going to be involved I'd rather have him in a position that Congress can call him on the carpet for.

Mind you, I want Rove gone also. Along with Karen Hughes and all of the other marketeers that brought this abomination upon us. But we need to be mindful that Rove can be put on a contract in much the same way as Michael Brown was, only with an ending date of January 2009.

[DeepModem Mom]

26. Right -- unless my dream comes true, and Rove's behind bars! nt

[Norquist Nemesis]

28. Ah....

that's not a dream...it's an oragasm!!! LOL!

[forintegrity]

13. "Fresh Start"? Too late for that...

ain't gonna happen. They're too fat gone!

[AlCzervik]

14. i think i gone through a ream of paper just printing out stuff from

Jim VandeHei. I love this stuff!

[shockingelk]

16. Give them Bob Shrum!!! n/t

[goforit]

17. Polls at 35% and less is hitting below the belt , eh?

[Norquist Nemesis]

18. Heads up, people!!!

Many are calling for Bush to get "fresh blood". They are saying he needs "fresh blood" and that the jobs in the WH are burn outs. Also, if he is to get his Presidency back on tracy for his legacy that he needs "fresh blood".

So, while I'll be celebrating the day Rove and the rest of them are out of (direct) policy making with this WH, I give no pass to Bush that he's turned the corner or anything of the sort. It's all about HIM...NOT THIS COUNTRY!!! If it were about this country he would have admitted mistakes and taken a change in course a LONG time ago!

I'm just saying that getting Rove out is like trying to pull the flower off a dandelion then expecting the weed problem to be gone. The root of the problem is much deeper.

[Virginian]

62. Fresh Blood!!!!??

Does that mean we will be attacked again as a diversion from this scandal and Bush's downward spiral in the polls?

[Scout1071]

19. You know the White House is floating this to the media due to indictment.

Impending indictment. Serious indictment. I now think that * will fire Rove based on these "reports." Clearly they want him to be a former White House aid when the indictment comes...and based on these reports, I believe that will happen next week. Just my gut.

[Halliburton]

21. I thought Rove was in the clear

according to Ishikoff, David Brooks, Tom Brokaw, Johnothan Alter, Jeffrety Toobin, and others. :shrug:

[lavendermist]

25. From your mouth to God's ear.

:thumbsup:

[Tatiana]

27. I agree with your gut.

I give it a couple of weeks though.

Rover made false statements to the GJ. That much is obvious from FOUR GJ appearances... one at the VERY LAST MINUTE.

It would be great karma, however, for Rover to think he beat the rap and was in the clear - only to have Fitz indict him at a later date.

[Scout1071]

35. My gut also says Cheney is gone by January.

For health reasons, of course. Or was it to spend more time with his family? Or is it because his nanny is an illegal immigrant?

Oh well, he's next to go following Rove.

I feel it. I know it. The law is on our side. Truth and justice will prevail. Despite what they've done, this is still America after all. History will set itself straight.

[DeepModem Mom]

29. Whoa -- could be! Starting to distance themselves. nt

[Gelliebeans]

37. That was my first thought too.

Chimpy and the gang don't want stinky Rove in the white house when he is indicted. Media will be replaying pictures of Rove leaving the WH for the last time like we did last Friday with Libby and that couldn't of made old "unka dick" happy. You are exactly right that it sounds better that Rove is an former white house aid. Either way as long as the bastard is implicated, I'm not going to be picky on how his goose finally gets cooked :rofl:

[DoYouEverWonder]

38. I agree, things are looking bad for dear ol' Karl

and the WH is trying to figure out how to make a silk purse out of a a sow's ear.

[Orsino]

47. * must be considering dumping Rove.

With his approval ratings firmly lodged in the subterranean plumbing, he must be flailing about for anything to try that will make him look decisive. Having to get rid of a close adviser will be embarrassing, but if it could be spun to a net gain, it's already on the table.

[Nothing Without Hope]

49. He HAS to dump him as a close advisor, because his security clearance

is now ILLEGAL. I've posted on this downthread. The law on this is CLEAR - and without a security clearance, Rove can't see much of anything the President is dealing with.

So far as I know, they haven't yet revoked his security clearance and it's not clear that they will do so without being forced. I wonder if Bush will try to get out of this by rescinding the executive order that covers this situation - he's desperate for Rove, but such a step would be very unpopular.

[Orsino]

61. I don't doubt that that's true...

...but unless someone is able and willing to enforce the law, no, * doesn't have to fire anyone.

We should continue to make it politically untenable, at least, and should encourage the authorities to enforce the law.

[Scout1071]

50. Yep, and they are warming the public to the idea that Rove will be fired.

Slowly leaking that * is considering the change as if he is a strong leader, when it sounds to me like Rove himself may be laying the groundwork for his departure. On the way out the door he may be trying to prop * up one last time.

[opihimoimoi]

22. Rove is in a postition he may not be able to give advice to Bush soon

Should the shit hit the fan.....

This will be a good thing for America...

Roves advice has not helped America one fuckin iota...it been all bad.

[wordpix]

55. not that advice from ANY neoCON will make the country better

[fearnobush]

30. Rove is indeed now "an unindicted co-conspirator."

"White House colleagues say Rove is clearly "Official A," based on the detailed description.

That kind of pseudonym is often used by prosecutors to refer to an unindicted co-conspirator, or someone who faces the prospect of being charged. No other administration official is identified in this way in Fitzgerald's indictment"

[Lone_Star_Dem]

31. No, this isn't over yet.

It's great to see them putting this in print. Rove, you've lost your magical powers over the media. No amount of BS faxes and reporters in your pocket are going to save you now.

[calmblueocean]

33. What is this "Fresh Start" crap?

This is politics, boys. You don't get "do overs".

As Aristotle once wrote, "Suck it."

[wordpix]

56. Fresh doo-doo and old shit from BushCo will be the same

[Virginian]

34. What's a guy gotta do to get a security clearance yanked?

I would think abusing the clearance by exposing secret information would get you off the secure list. If it is known that he leaked, why does he still have a security clearance. It is a privilege, not a right. He is a security risk.

[Nothing Without Hope]

45. Absolutely true - I've posted below (reply # 44) on this. It's ILLEGAL

for Rove to have a security clearance now. There's a DU thread, currently on the Home Page, on the Newsweek article that discusses the law:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5245705
thread title (11/2): Newsweek: Is Rove a Security Risk?

[wordpix]

57. right!

[truthisfreedom]

36. how absolutely delicious. can someone pass the salt?

and pepper?

[wordpix]

63. or, it stinks. Will someone pass the plastic bag to

clean up the doodoo?

[shantipriya]

39. Rove

Book him,Pat.The SOB deserves much more than that for electing a dimwit and a buffoon as the President .

[wordpix]

65. you mean, "selecting" the dangerous moron as prezident

[thereismore]

42. Fire him, bushie, and another one. Just like Nixon did before

all hell broke loose. Hahahahaha!

[indepat]

43. The fish rots from the head: excising a small tumor won't stop a rampantly

spreading cancer eating the whole body.

[Nothing Without Hope]

44. WH shows both an ethical & strategic divide and ignorance of law

I've posted on this in reply to a dupe DU thread on the same WaPo article (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5250933). I also posted a long diary entry on it at dKos:
http://www.dailykos.com/hotlist/add/2005/11/3/11396/9908/displaystory//Diary
title: Ethical and strategic divides on Rove's status obvious in front Page 11/3 WaPo article

The WH clearly has no clue that they really can't keep Karl around. Some of them still think a Rove apology is enough to fix everything! There is no indication that they realize, let alone admit, that what he did was wrong. And of course, Bush wants his Svengali around to pull the strings and keep him safe.

In fact, according to Executive Order 12958, signed by President Clinton in 1995, Rove's security clearance should be revoked. This is explained in an online-only Newsweek article dated 11/2: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9899512/site/newsweek. And of course, without a security clearance there's not much Uncle Karl could still do around the WH. It's not clear whether anyone has actually dared to explain this yet to Bush. He's had a bad week and is likely snappish.

There's a DU thread, currently on the Home Page, on the Newsweek article that discusses the active executive order that makes Karl ROve's security clearance ILLEGAL:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5245705
thread title (11/2): Newsweek: Is Rove a Security Risk?

[Nothing Without Hope]

46. Just to be sure you all know - Rove's security clearance is now ILLEGAL

Not that the WH has admitted this, but the law is clear. It's an active executive order signed by Clinton and it's all spelled out. Rove's situation clearly fits in the category where security clearance MUST BE REVOKED. And without security clearance, Rove's usefulness to Bush is limited.

A Newsweek online-only article explaining this law - Executive Order 12958 - is currently cited in a thread on the DU home page.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5245705
thread title (11/2): Newsweek: Is Rove a Security Risk?

How long until the WH is forced to obey this law? Or can Bush rescind it? If he did, it would surely not go over well, but he is desperate for Rove's "help":

[Nothing Without Hope]

48. BTW - an earlier thread on this same Wash Post article is also on the

Greatest page:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5250933
thread title (11/3): BREAKING: FITZ STILL INVESTIGATING ROVE, AIDES DISCUSSING KARL'S FUTURE

Too bad it's broken up, but it's nobody's fault - the two threads were posted within minutes of one another, so both were being composed at the same time. I note the other thread here because both threads on this WaPo article have good discussion.

I also posted on this article at dKos:
http://www.dailykos.com/hotlist/add/2005/11/3/11396/9908/displaystory//Diary
title (11/3): Ethical and strategic divides on Rove's status obvious in front Page 11/3 WaPo article

[katty]

51. Fire rover before new year, on or prefer before his b-day,Dec 25

[wordpix]

52. it's outrageous that Karl Rove the Traitor remains in high gov. position

Fire the SOB. Then move on to impeach BushCo.

[yellowcanine]

53. A DO OVER? You want a DO OVER? There's no DO OVERS in politics.

[elsiesummers]

58. If Rove is fired, who will run the country? Seriously...

W is nothing more than a cardboard cutout marketing tool akin to those found in grocery store aisles. Rove is in fact "Bush's Brain," and although clearly unethical, he is the only one with gears that turn. Andy Card (aka the scarecrow) is perhaps dumber than Bush.

Colin Powell left long ago. Likewise, Ari Fleisher left and spywitnesses last saw him, glazed expression, fondling Target wedding gifts while mumbling "shiny plastic". Rumsfeld is too preoccupied with overseeing the torture of "furners" overseas to turn attention to the good ol' US of A. Karen Hughes is travelling incognito in the folds of a high volume burka.

Cheney is residing at the core of the earth and only reachable by Bunker Buster. Tests prove Condi Rice is actually a bobble head doll.

At this point, Prez Denny Hastert would be a welcome relief, because it looks like the Bush Admin is about to encounter a strange sort of rapture where no one with an IQ above 90 will be left behind.

[wordpix]

64. Dems will run the country---we will IMPEACH all of BushCo asap and

let Hastert limp along with his lame duck legacy. Enter Dems winning in '08.

That scenario is possible only if Hastert doesn't get whacked with some illegal scandal of his own. He has BushCo taint on him.

[SoCalDem]

59. My prediction for Rover..

He will announce in a very public way that he is resigning...because the media pressure and speculation is taking the focus from the excellent work the president is doing, and how hard he is working for the public.

He will hand pick his toady successor, and once out of the WH, he will gradually fade from the press coverage..

Without the laser beam of public interest focused on him, the rush for indictments will fade and he may never be charged with anything..

He will become yet another consultant and will be given a shill job at the Heritage Foundation or some other stink tank..

He will still do all the things he did for *² only now he will be a stealth-advisor..

Remember when Karen Hughes left with great fanfare..to spend more time with her family??..She still did all *²'s bidding, she was just out of sight..

This is the way these people work..they push right to the edge, and then pull back just in the nick of time...retreat a bit to regroup, and roar back later with a vengeance

[barb162]

60. let's hope in a few weeks we can say Adios Rove

Joe Wilson was bashing him again last night on Keith Olbermann's show

[Child_Of_Isis]

66. Libby, whose friends have begun raising money for his legal defense fund

Is everything free for these guys? :grr:

[jazzjunkysue]

67. More cowbell!!!!!

[jazzjunkysue]

68. "Karl's nuts roasting on an open fire..Libby's sucking on a hose...."

"Cheney's leak being sung by the choir and
George dressed Myers in judges robes, everybody

knows that Hadley forged the ye-llow-cake,
Tenet walked to save them all,
tiny lies added up to a war, so
Dubya's thir-ty five(%), today.

We know that Guckert/Gannon's gay,
he serviced lots of senate boys along the way, and every
time that Scotty lies, the GOP
knows that they're jobs are on the line...and

So we're celebrating sha-den-freud, to
hear the culprits finally pay
although it's been said, many times, many ways, Merry

Fitzmas, to you.

:popcorn:

[Tight_rope]

72. LMBAO...Now I like that song.

[jazzjunkysue]

69. Lead Story on MSNBC right now. Sounds bleak, for sure.

They're saying the groundwork for the crucifiction.

Let's see how the networks handle it tonight.

[Tight_rope]

71. Yes...get rid of "BUSH BRAINS".

The WH will surely far apart then.:bounce: