Venezuela, Mexico Recall Their Ambassadors

[deminks]

MEXICO CITY - Mexico recalled its ambassador from Venezuela on Monday after Caracas said it would withdraw its top diplomat instead of apologizing after President Hugo Chavez warned Mexican leader Vicente Fox: "Don't mess with me, sir, because you'll get stung."

Fox said in a television interview that he would meet with Foreign Secretary Luis Ernesto Derbez to decide what to do next.

Tensions between Fox and Chavez spilled over after this month's Summit of the Americas in Argentina, where Fox defended a U.S.-backed proposal for a Free Trade Area of the Americas while Chavez proclaimed the idea dead.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/mexico_venezuela

[Aviation Pro]

1. Great...

...that's all we effing need, a war between two oil rich nations in this hemisphere (with one of the nations led by a Weak and Stupid puppet).

[Bacchus39]

3. a Mexican standoff???

I agree, Chavez is Castro's weak and certainly stupid puppet.

[shanti]

4. really.....

welcome to DU :eyes:

[slackmaster]

31. A true Mexican standoff typically requires a minimum of three parties

Mexican standoff
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Jump to: navigation, search

A classic Mexican standoff from the Quentin Tarantino film Reservoir Dogs.A Mexican standoff is a slang term for a situation where three or more opponents have guns aimed directly at each other in a circular way, so that none can attack another without being shot themselves by a third party....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_standoff

[Bacchus39]

33. yes yes I know

n/t

[Judi Lynn]

34. Interesting!Hence the specific name,rather than a generic standoff!Thanx!

[shadowknows69]

40. A true Mexican standoff typically requires a minimum of three parties

and, I would think. At least one Mexican. Check!

[Hotler]

44. The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. Good movie..eom

[redqueen]

37. hahahahahahah

You're funny!

[TankLV]

50. Just join up to spew this crap, did ya?

[Kralizec]

52. Your ignorance is blinding.

:banghead:

[enigma000]

6. Who is the puppet?

Chavez is acting erratic these days. I wish he would just implement his social programs at home and keep the rhetoric down.

[Bacchus39]

9. Chavez wants all the other latin american leaders to be

his puppet, or at least that is what Fidel told him.



however, Mexico's economic interests lie more closely with the US than with the negligible trade with Venezuela.

think about it.

[anotherdrew]

11. take your chavez hate lines elsewhere

he's not a communist he's a bolivarian fool. Get yer shit straight before you try to spread yer hate.

FOX is a joke of a president and there's not a damn reason in the world Chavez should call him anything but bush's mexican lapdog. Fox will be gone soon and then mexico will have a real leader who can actually accomplish something to help the people of mexico.

"as for why doesn't he just implement his social programs and stop making waves" - In CASE you haven't noticed he's the only one standing up to bushco's imperial plans, I'd think you'd want to cheer him on.

[Bacchus39]

12. if you call his hallucinations "standing up to imperial plans"

then perhaps you are right.

however, I haven't bought into the "everything that Hugo says is true" mindset yet.

[anotherdrew]

15. well - we shall see, no one is perfect, but he's doing well so far

I too haven't bought into the "everything that Hugo says is true" mindset, but I'm sure willing to give him a chance.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GHOSTDANCER]

83. out for a walk ........................... roof roof

<><><>

[TankLV]

51. We do, that's why we can see thru your bullshit.

Enjoy your stay here - it certainly is entertaining!

[Kralizec]

54. Vincente Fox is a neo-liberal. Of course he has made it so that Mexico

has close ties to the U.S., which is neo-conservative. Both ideologies support free trade combined with international corporatism (fascism can be "left" too, remember). This is exactly why they (Fox and Chavez) are butting heads.

And he is not Fidel's puppet. Fidel himself see's him as an equal, and even commented that Chavez accomplished a "miracle" in Venezuela. The plan that they share is old, and yes, it is the same plan the Che fought and died for. Chavez himself recently said this in a speech.

Don't come here and spew vagaries and not expect to be heavily rebuffed.

:freak:

[phusion]

58. Neoliberalism

is a scourge to "developing" countries...

If the FTAA is implemented, it will be devastating. Chavez is right to fight this. Regional GDP might increase, but the disparity between the rich and poor will increase as well. NAFTA, CAFTA, FTAA, etc. do nothing but hand over a people's wealth to multinationals.

:toast:

[dave29]

2. Oh plz

grow up peoples

[murray hill farm]

5. Its nothing...really!

Latins must react as happened...its not war material..it is just posturing...which is required...it will pass.

[Bacchus39]

8. yes, just Hugo opening his big mouth again, followed by macho reaction

it will pass.

[maximovich]

36. Like Bush? (nt)

[ninkasi]

41. Yeah, like...

"Bring it on," isn't macho posturing.Or..."You're either for us or against us...".

[Media_Lies_Daily]

61. Bet Herr Busch goes before Hugo.

[Village Idiot]

10. You are right.

It's all just political posturing. Chavez sees himself as a leader in the Latin American sphere, and most, if not all, Central and South American nations ALREADY view Fox's close US / NAFTA ties with suspicion...they see him as a lap-dog for US and Corporate interests. Many nations are afraid to ally openly with Chavez however, due to a)his close ties with Fidel Castro and b}US / NED economic support and IMF / World Bank loans to their respective countries...

It's a blip, but the fallout may illustrate just "who is following who," or "who is aligned with who" with regards to the FTAA talks...

It may be interesting to see how this pans out in the coming weeks...

[MGKrebs]

7. ¿quién es la más macho?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

13. "el mas macho" n/t

[K8-EEE]

18. LOL!!! Chavez o, Montal-baaaaahn...

OMG classic skit that I had forgotten!

[spancks]

42. schoolbus es mas macho que lightbulb

[TomInTib]

14. The funny part is the Mexicans are pissed about the "puppy"

thing.
Typical posturing on both sides.
I remember when my friends from Mexico were so elated about Fox's election. They thought he was really going to turn things around for the people.
Yeah, right. The head of CocaCola Mexico? Suuuuuure.

[Ignacio Upton]

16. Go Chavez!

Fox should stop trying to force all of the poor people out of his country over our borders and rehabilitate his country's economy. That way most of the illegal immigrants here won't be desperate enough to risk their lives and leave behind their families.

[alarimer]

23. I agree with you there

Free trade agreements are not going to help the poor in Mexico. One thing though, the government in Mexico condones and encourages illegal immigration because of the millions of dollars they send back. It is a major portion of the economy. I forget the exact figure. Stopping that would make Mexico even poorer. Still Fox is Bush's puppet.

[jseankil]

24. Great what's your economic plan for Mexico? /nm

/nm

[K-W]

26. Letting Mexicans make thier own plans would be a start. EOM

[jseankil]

27. What does that mean? /nm

nm

[K-W]

28. Which part of letting Mexicans determine their own fate confuses you? eom

[jseankil]

29. Are you saying they don't elect their leaders?? /nm

/nm

[Ignacio Upton]

30. Well, Mexico has largely been an autocratic country most of

their history. One of the reasons why the Southwest now belongs to us is because of support from Spanish-speaking Tejanos in Texas and "Padres" in California who hated Santa Anna and thought he was a dictator, and wanted to split.

[K-W]

38. Is that what I wrote? EOM

[jseankil]

43. You aren't writing much of anything.

You are being very vague and general and I'm asking you to clarify yourself.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

62. How much clearer can it get before it gets to the "picture-drawing" level?

[K-W]

68. Im trying to respond to your comments.

So far you have asked me to clarify a very simple statement and then asked me if I meant to say something that I didnt say.

You expect this to get a substantive response from me?

[jseankil]

75. "Letting Mexicans make thier own plans" ???

What are Mexicans being forced to do? What plan of theirs is being rejected?

[Kralizec]

57. First, they must realize that free trade is detrimental to their people

as well American workers, and definitely South Americans. If you're not aware of this, do research of the affects of free trade on Latin America. The free trade makes Mexican workers work for lower costs than they should be paid, thus keeping them at or very near poverty. At the same time the workers in the U.S. lose their jobs (or farms) because they can't afford to live at the cost which the Latin workers are willing to work.

Latin-American countries, despite contrary belief, do have resources which other countries need. These resources can improve the economies of these countries. That is, if they are not exploited, and instead sold at a fair rate which would support Latin families to a decent life, and not sucking jobs from the U.S. work force.

edit: clarification

[BenDavid]

17. Oh my goodness,

this is tailor made for bush to step in and resolve this issue before it leads too, well whatever they can sell the press on, what it will lead too.... This to me, in my honest opinion is a way so that bush can be seen as "the peace president"..... Unbelievable...

[Bacchus39]

19. Chavez would never accept a Bush brokered "peace"

not that Bush would be capable anyway. this spat is way overblown anyway.

[murray hill farm]

20. next year mexico will elect a new president...

and the popular leanings are way left of center here. Chavez is much respected in Mexico!

[Judi Lynn]

35. Glad to hear it! Mexico's going to have so many interested onlookers

next time, considering the mayor of Mexico City's going to be involved. Sure hope he makes it!

We can expect the American Republican favorite to be getting a whole lot of surreptitious help from the _Bush administration trying to beat the progressive candidate.

[area51]

48. Mexican elections.

Hope they don't use Diebold, ES&S or Sequoia.

[BenDavid]

21. You are correct, and I

should have been a lil more in detail in saying bush and his top people will give the appearance they will be trying to resolve this issue and to give the allusion they are doing something...

[Media_Lies_Daily]

63. Chavez would be WAY too smart to trust Herr Busch on any matter.

[msongs]

22. whatta lot of nothing. gees can't FOX get jobs for mexicans IN mexico

instead of beating his chest and waving his symbolic weenie?

Msongs
www.msongs.com/chinamart.ht

[readmylips]

32. Sounds like an old fashion macho duel....

Since these two countries have no WMDs, they'll have to launch tortillas at each other. At least the world knows Chavez is using oil revenues to help his people, while Fox doesn't give a chit about those poor darkie Mexicans crossing the desert who end up slave workers, in jail or dead. Who is the better patriot? I vote for Chavez.

[daleo]

39. Can Fox declare war on Venezuela

Allowing his ally, Bush to step in under the pretext of some treaty? It seems like a long shot, but stealing oil from Iraq has proved to be quite difficult.

[Bacchus39]

45. why would he do that??

kind of a severe overreaction don't you think?

[daleo]

46. As part of a scheme with Bush to get Venezuela's oil

A bit like how Blair went along with the Iraq adventure. But, I am mostly joking when I float the idea, I hope.

[Bacchus39]

72. the US is already the largest consumer of Venezuelan crude

n/t

[daleo]

84. Yes, the U.S. consumes Venezuelan crude

But it doesn't control it, which is what many neo-conservatives such as PNAC want.

[phusion]

53. That is an interesting theory...

But, hopefully Fox only has about 7 months left in office...

[name not needed]

47. Nothing like seeing world leaders act like 13 year old girls.

Way to go! :thumbsdown:

[Kralizec]

59. There's much more behind this than just the comments. n/t

[Codeine]

60. Are you Kralizek! from RPG.NET? nt

[Kralizec]

66. Nope. (nt)

[Codeine]

49. TweedleDumb vs. TweedleDumber -

- In: The Mexican Standoff.

I'll let you decide who plays which role. Macho posturing is sickening regardless of which side of the political fence you stand on. Fox is a jackass, and Chavez an annoying thug who too many DUers worship because he doesn't like Bush. It takes more than that to make a good national leader.

[Judi Lynn]

55. Please provide a link to some evidence DU'ers worship Chavez.

I give DU'ers who pay attention to his career for having taken the time to be informed on his policies, and his history.

I've never seen a Chavez-worshipper at D.U.

Visitors who try to devaluate posters, to mock them are really in the wrong place. You should address the material, and forget trying to insult DU'ers.

[Codeine]

56. I've no need to justify myself to you.

I'm insulting nobody, merely stating an opinion based on my eading of many poster's attitudes to Mr. Chavez. I see the same unwillingness to rationally address his shortcomings in some DUers that I observe in freepers and their opinion of the Junior Chimp; there's a prevailing view that seems to see whatever Mr. Chavez does as being part of a noble crusade against American imperialism when most of the time it's low-brow rabble-rousing designed to draw attention away from the problems in his own nation.

And I'm sorry, but when a leader makes as idiotic a statement as he made to Vicente Fox, he's going to look like a jackass and no amount of hero-worship will cover that up.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

67. So, use some facts to back up your rather interesting comments, and....

...we'll stop asking you to do so. Does that sound reasonable to you?

[RethugAssKicker]

73. Seriously.... Why is he a thug?

[Codeine]

81. Machismo

I don't like machismo in anyone, but I especially dislike it in a statesman. If Bush were to make a comment like "Don't mess with me or you'll get stung" we'd all agree he was being a petulant, thuggish asshole. Chavez is held to a different standard by some here; I don't count myself among them. I hold all world leaders - left and right - to a high standard of behavior. I won't cuddle up to somebody because he makes the right anti-Bush noises.

[LoZoccolo]

76. Melodybe used to post threads about Chavez and then...

...post other threads asking people to vote them up for the greatest list. She stayed up all night begging people to do this once.

But linking to threads of people who've not been tombstoned would get us in trouble.

[Kralizec]

64. You can't say that and get away with it. Sorry.

People have done research on their own, and know the nuances of these two governments. Fox is not a jackass, he is a neo-liberal implementing a neo-liberal agenda. Chavez is not a thug in any manner, as any research into the revolution in Venezuela would show. The fact that he is vocal against Bush, has no doubt pleased those who also do not like Bush. This is common sense. And I do agree that if people praise Chavez merely for opposing Bush, they should look further into him and what's going on in Venezuela.

edit: clarification and closing italics

[Media_Lies_Daily]

65. Chavez is only annoying to those that hate free elections...

...and the right of every country to determine their own destiny.

People like Herr Busch and the rest of his fellow-traveler NeoCon goose-steppers hate Chavez...that makes Chavez more than okay in my book.

Just curious, but what do you have besides NeoCon-sponsored propaganda to back up your comment that "Chavez is an annoying thug"?

[Codeine]

70. Don't be silly

One can love free elections and democracy and still have contempt for those elected. A free election gave my state an Austrian bodybuilder for it's executive leader - not exactly a sterling result.

>"People like Herr Busch and the rest of his fellow-traveler NeoCon goose-steppers hate Chavez...that makes Chavez more than okay in my book."

I don't let the Right define my heroes. By that logic I'd have to embrace Mao and Stalin.

>"Just curious, but what do you have besides NeoCon-sponsored propaganda to back up your comment that 'Chavez is an annoying thug'?"

As both "annoying" and "thug" are fairly subjective in nature, and therefore not something that can be factually defined, by your standard I'd have to say no. I personally believe a national leader that makes childish statements in the manner that Chavez (and Bush, for that matter) do is an annoying thug - your mileage may vary.

[Kralizec]

71. What happened in Venezuela was much more than a "free election."

That was merely the first part. Then Chavez was taken down by a coup that may or may have not been supported by the U.S. (though many facts lean the scales toward U.S. involvement). The next part is the vital part. After the new president was sworn in, the People flooded the streets of the capital, "descending" from the higher, poor suburbs of Caracas to the lower, affluent city-core. They marched to the Presidential Mansion and demanded Chavez be reinstated. They stayed there until he was.

Each Venezuelan carries a constitution in their pocket, and more importantly, every person, in some way or another, had a small part in writing this constitution.

It was more than a "free election," this is a Revolution.

[RethugAssKicker]

74. So you just think he's a thug... no fact to support it!

You're dismissed!

[LoZoccolo]

77. Let me ask you something...

...what kind of "fact" would satisfy your standard of "proof" in this case?

[RethugAssKicker]

79. Well, usually when you call someone a thug it means he is a

criminal... What evidence supports this about Chavez?

[LoZoccolo]

80. Not necessarily. n/t

[Codeine]

82. Thug is an opinion.

I don't like loudmouths, demogogues, or macho displays of pride or arrogance. Those all fall into my definition of thug. You may define the term differently, in which case you'd clearly have a different opinion.

Last I checked, we weren't dismissing one another. I've been civil, and I would appreciate you following suit. This is a difference of opinion about a leader a continent away. I see very little point in getting worked up and insulting over it.

[newspeak]

78. no, maybe some DUers see

Chavez helping his people and country instead of towing the corporate line. It seems the economic summit didn't goes as well as some corporate greedheads wanted it to. And, how about the other South American countries? You know, like Argentina, Bolivia (one of the poorest countries). Also, back in the 1980s, there were 550 "American" corporations in Mexico, exploiting workers and the environment. Some of these companies couldn't crap in their own yard, but they sure as hell could bribe other governments to allow them to crap in theirs.

[PATRICK]

69. Buried in the incident

is the critical fight over the Bush version of free trade. While the US is putting the screws to its poodles one is supposed to act the Dems and politely compromise and act like gentlemen and lose lose lose? Hugo is right on the issue in particular, has the popular support on the issue and is just whipping the pressured regional leaders back to their own proper national interests. They must be glad and relieved to have Hugo lead the charge and give them REAL clout in not making "Free" Trade a disastrous surrender to the Bushistas.

And how the corporate media hates Chavez and acts like a bunch of prom queens hearing a loud swear word at their party.

Does Fox get anything from his people on any of the points of courtesy or on the issues? I think Fox is being slammed down in the polls and squeezed mercilessly as the puppet tool Bush at least considers him to be. I don't see where Chavez, the real fox, has lost much except an embassy building.