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(UK) Tim Collins trained troops to fight with white phosphorus

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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 08:08 PM
Original message
(UK) Tim Collins trained troops to fight with white phosphorus
Col Tim Collins, the controversial Iraq war commander, trained his soldiers to use white phosphorus, which burns through flesh to the bone, in combat against enemy troops. The admission by the former Special Air Service officer, revealed in his autobiography Rules of Engagement, contradicts claims by the Ministry of Defence that the chemical was only ever used to create a smokescreen.
British troops also used white phosphorus to kill Argentinian troops during the Falklands conflict. In his book, Col Collins describes how he trained 1bn Royal Irish Regiment for an attack codenamed Operation Fury planned for April 2003.
The colonel, who left the Army last year, said that he "directed" the men to "perfect" house-to-house fighting skills in preparation for the battle.

Discussing the weapons to be used in the operation in the Basra area, he wrote: "The star of the show was the new grenade which had only been on issue since the previous summer. It absolutely trashed the inside of the room it was put into. "I directed the men to use them where possible with white phosphorus, as the noxious smoke and heat had the effect of drawing out any enemy from cover, while the fragmentation grenade would shred them." Col Collins' tactics mirror the United States army "shake and bake" technique which involves forcing troops out of cover with white phosphorus and then killing them with artillery rounds.

The furore surrounding the weapon emerged last week after Lt Col Barry Venable, a Pentagon spokesman, used almost identical phraseology to Col Collins, when he confirmed that "shake and bake" was a recognised American tactic. In an interview with the BBC, Col Venable said: "When you have enemy forces in covered positions that your high explosive artillery rounds are not having an impact on, one technique is to fire white phosphorus into the position because the combined effects of the fire and smoke will drive them out so that you can kill them with high explosives." He confirmed: "It was used as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants."

Last week John Reid, the Defence Secretary, maintained the British troops had only ever used white phosphorus as a battlefield smokescreen. His department continued to stress that troops had never used it as "an incendiary weapon, against either civilians or even enemy combatants". Although Operation Fury was cancelled, it remains unclear whether British troops went on to use white phosphorus against Iraqi forces, putting Col Collins' style of attack into action.
Prof Paul Rogers, of Bradford University's peace studies department, said he believed that most soldiers would use all weapons at their disposal. He said: "There is a presumption among certain members of the population that wars are clean. They are not."Pentagon spokesman



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/11/20/nphos20.xml
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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. I hear mustard gas is
very effective too.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-05 08:51 PM
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2. So there ARE WMDs in Iraq after all?
And we were the ones who brought them.

God forgive us.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. It is surprising to see this in the Telegraph.
It is usually a reliable pro-war rightwing paper, as far as I can tell.

"Article two of Protocol Three of the 1980 Convention on Conventional Weapons bans the use of the weapon against civilians and also military targets located within civilian areas. Although the US is not a signatory of the convention, Britain is.

But there is now increasing debate as to whether the use of the weapon should instead fall under the United Nations Convention on Chemical Weapons."

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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
4. 70 years no deaths reported from WP smoke....
Edited on Sun Nov-20-05 02:25 AM by LeftHander
That is what Pike from GLobalSecurity.org said.....on NPR.

Nice spin.

It's not the smoke that kills you it is the stuff making the smoke...Phosphorus Pentoxide.

Causes swelling of lungs, severe burns to skin and mucous membranes and death.

But WP has been used in the battle field for 70 years and not one death reported.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 03:04 AM
Response to Original message
5. "shake and bake"
The Germans had "special treatment" as a phrase to mask their crimes. The US uses the trademark for a popular cooking product to mask our crimes in Iraq.

Kraft foods should sue the Pentagon for harming the good name of their Shake'N'Bake.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. That would be an interesting case
These days, though, with all the product placements, maybe they have worked out a deal...
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