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PhilipShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 12:58 AM
Original message
The Observer, UK: Millions face glacier catastrophe
The Observer, UK
Robin McKie, science editor
November 20, 2005

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1646656,00.html

Global warming hits Himalayas

The roof of the world is changing, as can be seen by Nepal's Khumbu glacier, where Hillary and Tenzing began their 1953 Everest expedition. It has retreated three miles since their ascent. Almost 95 per cent of Himalayan glaciers are also shrinking - and that kind of ice loss has profound implications, not just for Nepal and Bhutan, but for surrounding nations, including China, India and Pakistan.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yup.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. when the cold water melt from ice burgs stops, the heat engine of the
polar caps cooling the equatorial waters will end.

the oceans will heat up and then we better watch for F6 or 7 hurricanes. ot maybe the4y will turn into just 10,000 square mile f4 tornados....

when the oceans heat up it will internsify the global warming by many factors.. the increased water vaper pressure of the heated seas may create a new ice age..

the tremendous amount of water vapor that deposited the ice sheets in the last ice age evaporated enough water out of the oceans to lower there levels about 350 feet to 400 feet below their present level

the equivalent amount of heat to evaporate a pound of water is 5 pounds of red hot cast iron

does that scare you or what..

























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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Don't forget the weight of the glaciers...
when they are gone, the earth will rebound possibly causing large earthquakes in the region as stress will build up in the rocks.
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ClusterFreak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. 'scuse me while I put my head between my legs....
...and kiss my.....well, you know.

Fuck it. Get drunk. Stay drunk.:crazy:
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Porcupine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Hey! All this happens AFTER lunchtime tomorrow. No worries...
maybe after lunchtime the day after that. Don you people have real problems?













:sarcasm off:
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henslee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 04:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Heat engine of polar caps cooling? Can you explain it for dummies?
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. snow falls on the glaciers and builds up and the glacier's expand form the
Edited on Sun Nov-20-05 01:15 PM by sam sarrha
weight and flow like rivers to the Arctic ocean, where they break off and fall into the sea, they get stuck in a shallow area and when summer comes they melt..

the cold ice melt is heavier than the warm sea water so it falls to the bottom of the ocean and runs down hill..in huge rivers or currents.

it flows all the way to the tropics the warm water from there flows in currents back to the Arctic to replace the water dragged along in the currents traveling to the tropics.. it goes round and round..cooling and warming..

when the melt stops cause there are no ice bergs.. the flow will stop and the water in the tropics/equator will be stuck and will HEAT UP..

with a higher temperature there is higher vapor pressure accelerating evaporation.. which means A HELL OF A LOT MORE RAIN AND BIGGER HURICANES... AND STORMS COMING OUT OF THE TROPICS.. FLOODS, TORRENTIAL RAINS, TORNADO'S.. the survivors will have to build weather proof cities, move under ground or into caves with good drainage, agriculture as we know it will cease do to the rain.. food will be a problem

a new ice age will start because of the increased snow falling in the artic..

and the earth will start spinning a little slower with all the weight of the ice dispursed into the ocean, like a spinning skater putting her arms out she slows down... that will allow more heat to be absorbed by the ground during the longer day and create more desertification

sorry about that.. i am from a clarvoyant family..
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henslee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Good explanation. Thanks.
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. ...hmm, I sense you mean a "clairvoyant" family... Am I correct?
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. they say Venus is an example of global warming gone
out of control.
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
8. Too bad humans have no long term memory. The "Little Ice Age" of.....


....1350-1850 held europe snow locked for all that time. Looks like that's what will happen again.

While florida and the southeast US will become just too hot to live in. Maybe the mountains of the appalatian chain are the safest place. Halfway between.
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IkeWarnedUs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. What caused the little ice age?
Any idea what caused that? And what do you mean by "snow locked"? Was it cold year round?
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. the dark ages were caused by a very dusty metor shower that cooled the
earth, by actually darkening the sky.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. the big ice age was caused by the eruption of the Mega Volcano Togo
Edited on Sun Nov-20-05 06:36 PM by sam sarrha
it caused a volcanic winter that killed off all but 1200 to 2000 humans..

a recent study of mitacondria dna showed that europe was repopulated by about 18 individuals that moved in after the ice sheet withdrew

togo is only about 300 miles from the big subduction quake that caused the big tsunami this year that killed so many people ... togo is becomming active again
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Don't know about year round, but the average temp was lower.


Famines were common, and plague was over europe, partly because most were hungry most of the time.

There was ice skating on the Thames then, which never freezes over now.

What caused it? Don't know, but climate cycles may be part of it, and the common fuel for heating was wood for at least the early part, which it has been suggested put carbon into the atmosphere. Of course, not as much as we have, but combine it with the climate cycle and you might have at least part of the answer.
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IkeWarnedUs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Answering my own question
Right after I posted my question I googled "Little Ice Age" to find out more about this. I had never heard about the little ice age, much less what may have caused it. Seems the "experts" are mixed about whether or not it was a phenomenon or part of a natural cycle. There is also some discussion about whether there was an "ice age" worldwide or just in the northern hemisphere and even if it was primarily in Europe and it is European ethnocentric thinking that turned it into a worldwide event.

Anyway, here is what two sites had to say about possible causes of the Little Ice Age:


Scientists have identified two causes of the Little Ice Age from outside the ocean/atmosphere/land systems: decreased solar activity and increased volcanic activity. Research is ongoing on more ambiguous influences such as internal variability of the climate system, and anthropogenic influence (Ruddiman). Some have also speculated that depopulation of Europe during the Black Death and the resulting decrease in agricultural output may have prolonged the Little Ice Age.

One of the difficulties in identifing the causes of the Little Ice Age is the lack of consensus on what constitutes "normal" climate. While some scholars regard the LIA as an unusual period caused by a combination of global and regional changes, other scientists see glaciation as the norm for the Earth and the Medieval Warm Period (as well as the Holocene interglacial period) as the anomalies requiring explanation (Fagan).

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age



Among the possible reasons given for the "Little Ice Age" are low solar activity and increased volcanism. How then are we going to tell which part of the recent warming is "natural" and which (if any) is due to human influence? The standard answer to this question is that the warming right after 1850 is mostly natural. The weather in the mid- and late 1830s was highly unusual and highly stressful, with severe winters and bad harvests (The great Irish famine falls into this period.) In the conventional view, the "Little Ice Age" is an anomaly (indeed it was the coldest period in the last several thousand years) and the warming after 1850 simply gets us back on track. This concept also supports the idea that warming in the last century has been a good thing for people, plants and animals, because it brought back the previous regime of a more benign climate.

It is difficult to argue with this conventional view, but we must be aware that it is simply a convenient assumption: no more, no less. There is nothing in our understanding of climate that would forbid a continuation or worsening of the "Little Ice Age" conditions after 1850 and right into the present. On the contrary, the long-term view of climate change — the one that includes the coming and going of ice ages — actually demands increased cooling for the last 3000 years or so. That the Earth has come out of the "Little Ice Age" is much more in need of explanation than the fact that it got into one.

Link: http://calspace.ucsd.edu/virtualmuseum/climatechange2/04_3.shtml
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