Storm rages over church's anti-gay monument

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=22&art_id=iol1067694910203N000&set_id=1

Casper, Wyoming - A bitter constitutional row has erupted in a western United States town over plans by a church to erect a scathing monument marking the "entrance into hell" of a gay student killed in a vicious hate crime.

The battle erupted after the city council of Casper in the rural state of Wyoming blocked plans by a Kansas pastor to erect the marker in a public park damning the victim of the notorious gay-bashing murder.

Reverend Fred Phelps wants to erect a 1.83-metre (six-foot) granite monument in a park dotted with other markers, including one depicting the Ten Commandments, proclaiming "God condemns gays to hell."

Gay student Matthew Shepard, who hailed from Casper, died in 1998 after mistakenly picking up two men in the town of Laramie who beat him viciously before tying him to a fence overnight on a cold and remote prairie.

The chilling monument was to bear a brass plaque reading: "Matthew Shepard entered hell October 12 1998, at age 21, in defiance of God's warning: 'Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind. It is an abomination': Leviticus 18:22."

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What the fuck has happened to the concept of Xtian tolerance and kindness in America today?

[Occulus]

1. the easy answer

they stopped being Christians and started being Xtians.

[cjm2222]

2. Fred Phelps

is hardly representative of Christians. He is to Christianity what Osama Bin Laden is to Islam. They are both disgusting. At least the city council vetoed his plan. Even some of Phelps's children have disowned him. He is sick.

[IndianaGreen]

3. Fred Phelps is as representative of Christianity

as Mullah Omar is of Islam, or Meir Kahane is of Judaism, or Torquedama is of Catholicism.

The membership of Phelps's Westboro church is composed of Phelps's family members. They obviously have something for inbreeding!

[UpInArms]

4. Phelps is a founding member of the

Taliborn-again

:puke:

[Johnyawl]

5. A lunatic, desperately searching for a following...

...which is why he pulls these outrageous, publicity seeking stunts. He'd like a congregation beyond his immediate family, that would make regular enough contributions that he too could havew a TV show, a university, and regular interviews on Faux.

[stevedeshazer]

6. If Fred Phelps manages to do this

in Casper as well as Rupert, Idaho, I will personally visit these "monuments" myself. Anyone who wants to ride along is welcome, chip in for gas appreciated.

[MinnFats]

8. I'm with you. Can fill my car with four or five upper midwest DUers.

Sledge hammers?
was thinking explosives, but somebody might get hurt.

Phelps has much to answer for in the next life. For example, how many of his congregation were produced through incest. The whole church is family members, isn't it?

He turns up like this hoping somebody will smack him so he can claim he's been oppressed.

[calimary]

13. This particular "monument" deserves a nice big bull's eye on it.

I'd certainly like to take a sledge hammer to it. Plant a cherry bomb or two underneath it. But it would indeed have to be done in such a way that no one gets hurt. Acid poured on it, maybe? Perhaps we could papier mache all over it, or better yet, cover it with cement, and then put a more proper, and respectful inscription on it to HONOR and BLESS the memory and the soul of Matthew Shepherd, and add a prayer for tolerance, AND maybe the quote from Phelps's own precious Bible that says "...judge not lest ye be judged." His death was a horrible, horrible crime, which says a lot about the worst of America. Those who did it deserve to go to hell for it. As do the Fred Phelpses of the world who catcall after it and cheer on those evil doers. Remember, the word "Phelps" does start with "Ph," the same as Pharisee.

[stevedeshazer]

16. I'm in the Northwest

Meet ya halfway.

[Liberator_Rev]

7. What's the DIFFERENCE between ...

what Phelps BELIEVES (as opposed to what he DOES about his beliefs) and what all the other Conservative Churches BELIEVE about homosexuals going to hell?

Most Conservative Churches don't follow their beliefs to the conclusions that Phelps does, BUT isn't Phelps just drawing some pretty logical conclusions from what all the Conservative Churches believe, i.e.

Since
a)we believe that those who defy God's Word and die unrepenting of serious sin go to hell, and
b)we believe that "God's Word" says homosexuality is such an
abominable sin,
c)therefore we must conclude that those who die without repenting of their homosexual go to hell.

The REAL difference is that Phelps is honest and logical about his beliefs, and believes he should warn true believers to avoid behavior which will doom them to hell
while other Conservatives are more discreet and/or less logical or don't care if others are going to hell.

We "Liberals Like Christ" have published http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/ChurchvsGays to defend GLBT's against all such so-called "Christian" beliefs.

[dsc]

9. We have had our tussles

but on this you are right as rain.

[MinnFats]

10. I ain't buying that part and neither is my Episcopal Church.

Like Ghandi and his view of his faith, I'll pick and choose which elements of the traditional faith are applicable and which are the result of old Paul's cultural conditioning.
Meanwhile, I'm waiting for Phelps to turn up outside my church and start calling out our lesbian associate pastor. He will not receive a warm welcome.

Phelps should read, I believe it iss......Matthew, chapter 7, verses 21-23.
"(Jesus said:) 'Get away, you evil-doers. I never knew you, and you were never mine.'
look it up it's a dandy for use on freepers/nutcase bible-beaters.

[Barad Simith]

11. You're joking, right?

When were fundamentalist Christians ever tolerant of anyone, except other fundamentalist Christians?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

12. Key word is CONCEPT. Hell, once upon a time they at least pretended

to be tolerant in public. Now, they want to declare war with WMD.

[Barad Simith]

14. I've known a lot of fundies, having grown up among them...

...and I've never known any to be tolerant of homosexuality. I'm talking about the Baptists, Calvinists, Bible Presbyterians, Church of Christ, etc.; not the more socially-conscious Christian denominations among us. However, the latter has never spewed the kind of hatred that is put forth by the former.

(I'm not missing your point, though - this Phelps family is about as anti-spiritual as they come.)

[Zhade]

15. You know what should be done?

A bunch of gay Christians who take nonviolence to heart should go up to Phelps and --

Hug him.

Just give him a huge hug, and be nonthreatening, and tell him that they know he's sick, and they're praying for his recovery from this disease of hate that consumes him.

Unfortunately, I can imagine a few people getting hurt when Phelps goes nuts from all the nonthreatening good vibes.

[stevedeshazer]

17. I like your idea. n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

18. We may witness a reenaction of an 'American Beauty' scene

Which one is left as an exercise for the reader. :evilgrin:

[MinnFats]

19. Oh, NO!, not...

....Rev. Fred Phelps beating off!Gaaah! NOOOO! anything but that!