Howard Dean's Comment Sparks Iowa Dust-Up

[NNN0LHI]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&ncid=716&e=8&u=/ap/20031101/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_2004

WASHINGTON - A comment by Howard Dean about Confederate flags and pickup trucks has embroiled the leading Democrats in Iowa's presidential caucuses in a name-calling donnybrook.

"I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks," the former Vermont governor was quoted as saying in Saturday's Des Moines Register. "We can't beat George Bush unless we appeal to a broad cross-section of Democrats."

Dean's campaign said Saturday that Dean was intending to encourage the return of Southern voters who have abandoned the Democrats for decades but are disaffected with the Republicans.

Two Democrat rivals competing against Dean in Iowa's leadoff Jan. 19 caucuses saw the comment differently.

more

[edward]

1. How about "Howard Dean Hillbillies"?

[IndianaGreen]

2. I would like to see how Dean's critics will change their criticism

on Dean's remarks when they travel South to campaign. I don't expect those that support the ethanol program while in Iowa, and condemn it while in New York, to behave any differently.

[Cha]

3. The vultures are ready to pounce at

the slighest drop of the hat. Dean can take it!

[0007]

9. You got that right!!

I more I hear this guy the more I love him

" Dean said the men with Confederate flag decals in their pickup trucks represented lucrative prospects for the party "because their kids don't have health insurance, either, and their kids need better schools, too."

Let's unite and change and win win win

[farmbo]

57. He made the same statement in Feb... and no one said a word...

Now that Gephardt & Kerry have focus- grouped the issue...and figured out a way to spin it, they pounce.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

4. Dean continues to amaze. Is this how he'd conduct diplomacy as well?

Earth to Dean: It is usually best to use your brain BEFORE you use your mouth.

[Zynx]

5. You'll have to tell me how it is a bad political move to search for votes

in the South.

[Voltaire99]

52. Dean's next project: win the Klan vote!

You know, Howie, no need to stop with the pro-slavery southerners - you could also be the president of guys with pointy sheets over their head. They vote, too.

[farmbo]

59. Gephardt's next exaggeration: "Dean wants to lynch Seniors !!!"

What major silliness is this? Demigogue the confederate flag issue if you wish, but stay somewhere near the inbounds lines when you impugn Dean's character.

[Voltaire99]

84. The "inbounds lines"?

That would be where, of course, Dean's enemies are demanding he stay.

I'm not for Gephardt, good lord! I'm simply calling Dean out on a ridiculous utterance - with sarcasm. If it's too hot in the kitchen, well... ;-)

[MODemocrat]

76. But, Dean could never win them away from the republicans

I think some of the right wing still wear sheets over their heads at their meetings.:shrug:

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jamesinca]

77. Dean does need to be careful

I am a Dean supporter, but I also know I spend a good deal of time criticizing Bush for opening his mouth. I know I think poorly of Bush for speaking at Bob Jones University etc. I don't blame or fault Dean for seeking out every single vote, he has run on the idea of wanting the country back and being tired of being diveded by race, gender, orientation etc... I will fault him if he does not learn from this. If he does not learn that this is how they do politics in D.C. He maybe could have used a different picture, one like, pickup truck with the gun rack in the back window or something.

[Demobrat]

6. He's been saying this all year.

And they're jumping on it now? Wow, desperation time.

[He loved Big Brother]

58. I know. I remember him saying it back in spring

Followed up with "I want their votes beause their kids don't have health insurance or adequate schooling either."

Hilarious how they try to spin this, when you look at the context of his words, which I have typed above.

And anyway, people are allowed to display whatever flag they choose to as part of their freedom of speech.

This flag should have no impact on Dean's desire for the children of those who wave it to be healthier and more literate. Thankfully, he has made this point very clear. And in response received an uproar.

Ah well. I gave $25 last week to the bat. After reading and listening to all these desperate Dean spinners, I went ahead and donated another $25.

Democrats need to start attacking Bush on all fronts, with the same venom they muster up whenever they go after each other.

It's funny how some candidates who don't have time to attend voting sessions can find the time to attack Dean. It's funny how they think Dean is their worst nightmare/worst enemy, and not Bush...

Well, it's not really funny.

I wonder where all this newfound energy came from, and where it's been hiding all this time!

But more importantly, why is it now being unleashed against someone LOGICAL ENOUGH to think, "Gee, perhaps strugling working class families with children aren't any less deseving of adequate resources and funding just because they happen to display a Confederate flag on their bumper".

Logic! Brilliance!

We must put a stop to it!!! (sarcasm)

[genius]

7. Dean has a racist atttitude that should not be excused.

His oppositions to the 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, and 14th Amendments is very much a concern for those who want to overcome the bigotry within the criminal justice system. The worst part is that his followers excuse his positions or try to pretend they don't exist because somehow they think he will beat George Bush.

[Zynx]

11. Okay. Such a statement needs an explination.

That holds as much water as me saying "Kucinich eats babies".

[IndianaGreen]

13. Would you care to elaborate?

I am curious as to what you could possible have to say about someone that did not vote for the PATRIOT Act.

[PurityOfEssence]

47. Hey, Dean didn't vote for the Nuremberg Laws either, let's elect him god

But then again, he's never voted for a single piece of Congressional legislation for the environment, health care, workers' rights or even the protection of little fluffy kitties. What a fiend! I say we keelhaul him right now.

I wonder what Russ Feingold has to say about this?

And that vicious warmonger Kucinich; I wonder if he's trying to distort all this too...

[graelent]

18. Could you or someone else please explain to me...

Where Dean has publically spoken or acted in opposition to laws preventing unreasonable search and seizures, the right to a grand jury, the right to not have excessive bail or where he has acted to abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States.

[genius]

24. Certainly, here are a couple of the sites you should look at

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles7/Frank_Dean-Death-Penalty.htm
http://rutlandherald.com/Archive/Articles/Article/31792

You might also want to re-watch his "Meet the Press" interview.

[0007]

35. Right wing hack stiring up the pot that's all!

I guess you read the Washington Times also, 'eh?

[Eloriel]

29. Oh, no, no, no -- no racist attitude whatsoever

I saw him in Atlanta in August and he did exactly what he's said he'd do in the South: talk race with largely (not entirely) white audience. It was breathtaking and had me moved to tears.

ANY and ALL claims of racism on Dean's part is a flat out lie, or (being more charitable than deserved, in a probability) a grievous misunderstanding.

Eloriel

[SuperNova7]

51. I saw Dean in Atlanta.

I saw Dean in Atlanta, got close enough to touch him, and there were quite a few black speakers there.

This was across from Georgia State, I did see many blacks at this location. I know that he did speak at more than one site though.

I have to say it is very sad to see people discount the black vote over votes that he is not even likely to get.

I can now see how many African Americans are wanting to leave the Democratic Party.

If you take support on racial issues alway, I may as well be a republican being that I am financially secure.

[Oreegone]

37. Jesse Jackson Jr. just came out supporting him on this statement

Statement By Congressman Jesse L. Jackson, Jr.
"I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood."-- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., March on Washington, August 28, 1963

"White folks in the South who drive pick-up trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools too."-- Dr. Howard Dean, DNC Winter meeting, February 21, 2003

Congressman Jesse L. Jackson, Jr., today said, "This year we celebrated the 40th anniversary of Dr. King's famous speech in front of the Lincoln Memorial in 1963. Forty years later, Dr. Howard Dean is reminding us that the great task of uniting the northern black and white urban poor and working class, with the southern black and white rural poor and working class around common economic issues good health care, high quality schools, and affordable housing is the key to wrestling our democracy away from the race-oriented Republican right-wing.

"Democrats were not competitive in the South in 2000, and we have struggled to thrive, and in some instances survive, since Richard Nixon and the Republican Party began using their race-based 'southern strategy' in 1968. The use of race, cultural and social issues have served to distract voters by keeping the focus off of economic issues has been the basic strategy of Bush and the Republicans in the South. That's why they make wedge issues out of prayer in school, the Ten Commandments on public buildings, civil unions, the false allegation that Democrats will take away hunters' gun rights, choice for women, the controversy of having the words 'under God' in the Pledge of Allegiance, and the Confederate Flag. Lest we forget, the Confederate Flag is the Democratic Party's historic contribution to the South, and current Democratic candidates have not been able to figure out how to come to grips with their own historic symbol.

"Normally, rather than directly confronting poor and working class white southerners with a strong economic agenda, Democrats have tried to imitate Republicans on many of these social issues. It is good that we have a candidate offering hope to the South with an economic agenda. It is Dr. Dean who is reminding us that the combination of poor and working class blacks and whites, north and south, united in coalition around a common economic agenda of jobs, health care, education and housing will constitute a winning strategy in 2004," concluded Cong. Jackson.

http://blogforamerica.com/

Dean is right Go Dean !!!! This shit about him being a racist is just that.

[MODemocrat]

78. Are you a genius in name only?

You really had me going for a moment!

[hedda_foil]

8. BTW, here's the entire quote of what Dean said (and always says)

Re Confederate flag:

Here is what he said - how can you disagree with that?

"I intend to talk about race in this election in the south because the Republicans have been talking about it since 1968 in order to divide us. And I'm going to bring us together, because you know what? White folks in the south who drive pickups trucks with confederate flags decals in the back ought to be voting with us and not them, because their kids don't have health insurance either and their kids need better schools too." (big applause)

[Prodemsouth]

12. Jeeze talking about twisting a guy's word. This Clark supporter says

Dean is right on the money. "A racist attitude" - give me a break.

[Noordam]

14. He is right and I see no problems here

I do not know what Kerry is talking about.

[surfermaw]

16. Dean Understands the South, for a Yankee

Dean, evidentally has done his home work, what he knows that many of the old southern rednecks aren't racist at all, they are just proud of the south and thr flag is a way to express their pride. I remember the south before the 50's and most men from the south were proud of the Confederate Flag..And he is right,republican have been seeking thier votes for years, and they should be voteing for the democratic party.

[Maddy McCall]

56. hahaha! Undoubtedly you are not a southerner

[CaptAhab]

62. Southern "pride"

Dean, evidentally has done his home work, what he knows that many of the old southern rednecks aren't racist at all, they are just proud of the south and thr flag is a way to express their pride.


Frankly, I have not met a southerner who is "proud of the flag" and is not a racist. It's really very difficult to cherish the Confederacy while disagreeing with what it stood for. Quote from Alexander Stevens, CSA vice-president:

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery -- subordination to the superior race -- is his natural and normal condition.

[PurityOfEssence]

46. Still, it's absolutely idiotic and reckless on Dean's part.

Yes, people are blowing it out of proportion if they say that he's condoning racism, but he needs a better metaphor. Why can't he say "a nascar sticker" or something like that? Why give ammunition to people?

Even with that full quote, it still shows wild flailing obliviousness on his part. Words mean something. Symbols mean something. If you're going to have the most powerful job on the face of the Earth, you have to know how not to stick your damned foot in your mouth on a regular basis.

Yeah, it's charming to see some verve; but I don't want some unpolished rabble-rouser representing this country abroad, even if his heart is generally in the right place. We've had enough of amateur hour, and I'm sick of his people covering for his sloppy hyperbole. This loudmouth may well be our nominee--and will certainly be a valuable participant in party politics for years to come--he needs to get his act together.

It's not like everyone's being a big meanie to him; he's getting a lot of breaks. He's also under a microscope, and always will be. A President--especially a Democratic one these days--needs to be able to handle himself among the wolves.

Yes, I don't like him too much. Yes, he's not my candidate. Yes, many of his supporters bug me. Put that aside for a moment and listen to some serious reality here: I want our nominee to win in an avalanche, bringing in a Democratic Congress, too. Dean gives people WAAAAAY too much ammunition of precisely this kind on a regular basis. I'm not making this up, and even if people are picking on him (no comment) they still get served up ample raw material.

Cringe, shrug a little, mumble some guarded qualification about this, and feel free to lambaste anyone who's trying to blow it into proof of his insensitivity about racism, but go tell the big damned Dean Legion to spend some energy on getting this guy to curb his sophomoric mouth.

[seventhson]

67. Kerry is an Idiot for jumping on this. Talk about Idiots

Kerry is just stupid and meanspirited and petty.

Dean's words were FINE. I agree with them 100%.

I know plenty of dixie loving rebels who are NOT racists but who ARE suseptible to the might makes right freeper mindset. THEY can be recruited to vote for DEan if he reaches out to them.

Yeah -- there are many racists amoing them. But there are many "racists" among white northern liberals too (only they are so dumb they do not even know they are "racists").

NOTE: the term "racist" is a misnomer. Geneticists have determined there ARE NO DISTINCT races. There are ethnicities and cultures but there is ONLY ONE RACE: THE HUMAN RACE!!! We are ALL of Afrcian descent as we all have a common african ancestor according to geneticists. We are all related and we are all cousins or closer family.

Poor confederate flag waving southerners have GOT to turn againstr Bush and the war for the DEMS to win in 2004.

Dean is right on the money.

anyone who says otherwise (i.e. Kerry) is just a whiney and desperate complainer.

[Military Brat]

10. Dean believes in the UNITED States

Not the divided states per the Republicannibals.

Is Kerry grasping at straws?

[JNelson6563]

15. Yes, this is the UNITED States

Not the divided states per the Republicannibals.

Damn well said.

Julie

[Atlant]

17. RE: Is Kerry grasping at straws?

> Is Kerry grasping at straws?

Yup. Straws are practically all he has left, and they're going fast too.

Atlant

[madfloridian]

19. They can face the problem head on like Dean, or let the GOP own it.

They sure used it in Georgia last year, didn't they? Dean is right to do it this way.

Our area does not see much of that flag flying, but not all fly the flag because they are racist. I am right on this.

I have an insignia of one on the certificate my grandmother had. It told of my great grandfather's service and death during the war.

No one, no one has a right to talk down to me about that certificate. He from all I have read of him was a good and worthy man who did what he had to do.

Dean must address it. If he does not the GOP will call it their own...and twist it.

And please no ugly comments to me about the certificate. If you have read my posts you know they would be undeserved.

[Cha]

23. "they" would rather stand back and harp

and nitpick on what Dean says! That's all "they" have.

[PurityOfEssence]

20. Kerry: "You can't be President and make a half-dozen gaffes a week".

We need a Democrat; we've already got an Autocrat. His tough-guy pronouncements and off-the-cuff silliness like this is endlessly ridiculous.

Regardless of the next election, he's a valuable guy to the country and the party; he's got to stop being such a reckless loudmouth or he's going to be a liability.

[blm]

21. He sounds like he's auditioning for his own talk radio show.

.

[Eloriel]

30. Who are you talking about, Kerry?

Can't be Dean, because his remarks re Confederate flag and trying to win those people back to the Democratic party are anything but off-the-cuff.

Eloriel

[PurityOfEssence]

44. That's a Kerry quote about Dean. Gaffes aren't necessarily impromptu.

Yes, the connotation and general assumption is that a gaffe is just some Freudian slip, or something like that. Often, they're repeated until someone points out the danger of the misspeaking.

Dean does both. He says things on the fly that are incorrect, inflammatory and indecorous. He also says inciteful things repeatedly until people call him on them (talking about blacks in front of white audiences) and then squeals when they're finally brought up.

Kerry's dead-on about this. A President can't be some verbal stumblebum; it's already bad enough that Dean's so remorselessly accusatory while being laughably thin-skinned. A President has to be polished and constructive.

[Cha]

33. zidzi: to kerry: "you can't be twisting leader's words

and blowing out your demagoguery and expect to be president."

[Adamocrat]

22. Southerners to Democratic Party: STOP ABANDONING US

Those of us who live in the South feel as if our party has abandoned us. We don't all wave the Confederate Flag, but our candidates have all but abandoned us to the Reich Wing. Please, people, stop demonizing every candidate who tries to make inroads to the Southern Vote. Give the Democratic Party a chance to EDUCATE and HELP these people, and their prejudices will fall by the wayside. Please stop trying to divide us.

Thanks,
ADAM

[Rose Siding]

26. I'm TIRED of being divided by...

geography :hi:

Dean in 04

[Eloriel]

36. Very effectively said

Thanks.

Eloriel

[Demobrat]

25. OK, here's Deans response. Never does take him long.

Statement From Governor Dean Regarding Kerry, Gephardt Tag Team Attacks

BURLINGTON--Last winter--to resounding applause and a standing ovation--Democratic presidential candidate Governor Howard Dean, M.D., told the DNC that "white folks in the South who drive pick-up trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools too."

In response to Congressman Gephardt's and Senator Kerry's most recent attacks, Governor Dean said:

"I want people with confederate flags on their trucks to put down those flags and vote Democratic--because the need for quality healthcare, jobs, and a good education knows no racial boundaries. We have working white families in the south voting for tax cuts for the richest 1% while their children remain with no health care. The dividing of working people by race has been a cornerstone of Republican politics for the last three decades--starting with Richard Nixon. For my fellow Democratic opponents to sink to this level is really tragic. The only way we're going to beat George Bush is if southern white working families and African American working families come together under the Democratic tent, as they did under FDR.

"In his historic 'I have a dream speech,' Martin Luther King, Jr., said: 'I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood.' I believe Dr. King's vision still represents the future of America. And that is what our campaign is about."

[Flying_Pig]

27. Right on Dr. D....

Kerry lost me a couple of months ago, and he's not going to get me back. Though I haven't made a pick yet, it's either Dean, or Clark. A Clark/Dean, or Dean/Clark ticket, cannot be beat.

[knowledgeispower]

73. Kerry lost me too

Not that I don't agree with a fair amount of his policies, but he is a condescending a-hole in my opinion. Not only does that turn me off to him personally, it also makes me think he won't be able to win the general election. He has "elitist liberal" written all over him.

[Eloriel]

38. Fantastic. Thank you!

I love this man.

Eloriel

[knowledgeispower]

72. Good response

I particularly agreed with:

"The dividing of working people by race has been a cornerstone of Republican politics for the last three decades--starting with Richard Nixon. For my fellow Democratic opponents to sink to this level is really tragic. The only way we're going to beat George Bush is if southern white working families and African American working families come together under the Democratic tent, as they did under FDR."

However, if his point was that southerners ought to stop letting the Republicans divide them by racial lines, he could have found a better way of putting it.

[JNelson6563]

28. Talk about a little slow off the mark!

Um, Dean's said this many times. He's right in wanting to point out what the Repub voters who sport mullets and confederate flags are lacking by voting Repub.

So, after all this time the other Dems are just now noting this stance and taking issue with it?? Seems a little slow to me....

And they are clamoring to insist they DON'T want those folks to vote for them?

Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant! <snarf>

Julie

[tsipple]

31. Thank You, John Kerry and Richard Gephardt

Thank you once again for pointing out how desperate you both are. I've now totally forgotten what either of you have done to make the lives of ordinary Americans better.

I now know that John Kerry's and Richard Gephardt's Democratic Party is: (1) against certain stickers on certain four wheeled vehicles in certain states; (2) in favor of confiscating guns from law-abiding citizens, especially in rural areas with low crime, unless part of a photo op; (3) in favor of the Patriot Act which robs Americans of decades of civil liberties (since you both voted for it); (4) in favor of pre-emptive U.S. invasions of countries which do not pose a national security threat to the United States (since you both voted for that, too); (5) opposed to any votes from southerners, including ignorant ones who are trying to learn.

(And we voted for these bozos as our national Democratic leaders? No wonder our party is so messed up.)

[0007]

32. Couldn't have said it better!

Thank you my friend.

[Cha]

34. Precisely!

:toast:

[Eloriel]

39. Good grief, tsipple!!

That's one of the most on-the-mark things I've read in ages. It's a masterpiece, actually.

You ought to send it to them. Seriously.

Eloriel

[jaysunb]

40. Very Well Stated !!

Your post is priceless !!:toast:

[Voltaire99]

53. "Certain stickers," eh? Here's Dean's problem

I make no defense of the likes of Kerry or Gephardt, and in fact agree with the spirit of your other four points, but the following statement really is troubling:

"...against certain stickers on certain four wheeled vehicles in certain states..."

A certain sticker, hm? You must adduce more to the symbol of the Confederate flag than a mere style choice, don't you?

If Dean's unaware of what the Confederate flag signifies - essentially, a premodern ethos of slavery and state violence against African Americans - then he's too naive to be president. If he is aware of its weight as a sign, then he has a burden to begin to choose his words more carefully. If he simply doesn't care, and thinks it perfectly fine to splutter whatever occurs to him by reaching for any convenient image as, say, a child and Bush do, then he will fast become a laughingstock.

As for Confederate flag-emblazoned pick ups driven by "ignorant" southerners "who are trying to learn," well, you have half of the equation right.

[GBD4]

41. Frankly

after witnessing the 2000 South Carolina Republican primary, politicians should know to simply never bring up the Confederate flag. It is so divisive that why even mention it unless conversation dictates? As I wrote in another post, all Dean has to say is "Southerners" and not those who have Confederate flags on their pickups.

[pinkpops]

42. I personnaly think it's great

that Dean wants to represent these guys, though I don't think it's that likely some of them will want him to do so. Rednecks, NRA, maybe, but the guys with the flags (conferate or amerikun) I am not sure.

[peterh]

43. On the one hand, Dean’s comment makes sense…

But I think someone or anyone will have a hard time convincing me that confederate, pickup driving, NASCAR white voters can remotely be classified as anything close to being progressive….unless it’s under the hood or doing something on top of the hood.

I know I’m stereotyping a bit, but I just don’t put a lot of stock into that voter class….they know they’re being fucked, but waving the flag and apple pie come first, then after a six pack, they admit to being fucked.

A little pandering doesn’t hurt, but they need to wake up read the clue card…oops, did I say read….someone slap me….please…

[TomNickell]

45. You should get to know some.....

pickup driving, Redneck, flag-waving, shoeless, in-bred Southerners before you make conclusions about the whole group of them (us).

There's still racism, of course. But there is a lot else besides.

[Adamocrat]

48. Just goes to show...

There's a LOT of anti-Southern bigotry out there, too. For generations now, we've been improving, and racism has been in decline. However, a few relics and knuckle-draggers always seem to get the spotlight (HI ZELL MILLER, you bastard!) and then we all get to hear another round of "Duelling Banjos".

If people won't ever give us a chance to help these people, educate them, and bring them into the 21st century, how can we be expected to ever make progress? Gee... anyone want to bring up that article about Southerners eating dirt??? (Designing Women reference, only the homos on DU will get it, I'm sure.)

[many a good man]

49. Curious

Is there really a snowball's chance in hell that any Southerner who puts a flag on his pickup might vote Democrat? That he might vote for his economic interests despite the Dem platform on civil rights and affirmative action? Are these guys really totally hopeless?

Equal rights are affirmed by the Courts and totally mainstream now. Is it really all that big deal to these people? I detest the symbolism of that flag but I know sometimes people out of peer pressure attach themselves to symbols without fully understanding their meanings.

[SuperNova7]

50. Dean may not get my vote now.

This is my “first” reply on democratic underground. I have donated in the past without signing up, but I have been checking it out for about a year, and I love it…

Thank You DU

Now, I have seen post about the Confederate flag issue many times, and I have wanted to respond but did not, but this time I was motivated to do so, and this is why.

Dean is the first candidate I have ever donated to, and when I read his statement about the Confederate Flag, I just shook my head. He will probably NOT get my vote for the primaries.

You see, I am African American and I live in Atlanta, and I can tell you many of the same Southerners with a rebel flag on the back of a pick up also have a Bush and Cheney sticker along side of it.

Many of them are also one issue voters. They came down from the hills to “Boot” Barnes (as they say) out of the Governor’s Mansion and to replace him with Sonny Perdue who supported the Confederate flag.

Now, that Ole Sonny boy didn’t bring them back their flag, they have come out with new posters which they plant everywhere, from public schools to major highways.

The newest poster says, “Sonny Lied”. “What a hoot”, they are now working on booting Sonny out.

In short Dean’s statement was foolish.

1. He was against the war. The majority of the South supported Bush on the war in Iraq, and they still back him.

2. He does not know these people, I do. Whenever minorities move in to a rural areas here come the confederate flags on large poles in front yards.

3. The confederate flag is a racist symbol, and Dean will not only miss out on some votes of those who would have supported him, but he will not get the Southern vote.

4. Further, many of these people have been poor and doing without for a long time, yet the most important issue to them is a Racist Flag.

[kodi]

54. your post is as brilliant as your name.

good show, and you got it right about many georgians.

[SuperNova7]

63. Thank You

Thank you, and as I said before, I supported Dean.

He was the first Democratic candidate to speak up on issues that bothered a lot of democrats who had been left without a voices while some seasoned democrats stayed silent.

However, A candidate has to have perimeters, Dean advisers in the South who are guiding Dean should be smacking him on his head about now.

There should never be a connection to the Confederate flag for any reason.

Nothing wrong about going after more votes, but this is not a productive way to go about it.

Further, for those who really want some insight on voters in the South, go to (Atlanta News Paper) ajc.com and check out the opinion page/letters from around Georgia every now and then.

When there is a poll in the AJC, check out which way the poll flows.

Last, please go to some of the Rebel sites online, some have forums and a large following. (a real eye opener)

Many of them still distain Northerners and complain about the transformation of the South due to mass migration of newcomers from outside the Southern states.

For Georgia they have a list (which they distribute everywhere) of Democrats and a few Republicans who voted for the new flag. They call them “turn coats”. This list helped them to get Barnes out of office, and now they have new additions.

They even have a Deck of Card for these politicians that they mean to get out of office.

[w4rma]

55. Jesse Jackson, Jr. Praises Dean on Bringing Economic Agenda to the South

Congressman Jesse L. Jackson, Jr. Praises Dean on Bringing Economic Agenda to the South

"I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood."-- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., March on Washington, August 28, 1963

"White folks in the South who drive pick-up trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools too."-- Dr. Howard Dean, DNC Winter meeting, February 21, 2003

Congressman Jesse L. Jackson, Jr., today said, "This year we celebrated the 40th anniversary of Dr. King's famous speech in front of the Lincoln Memorial in 1963. Forty years later, Dr. Howard Dean is reminding us that the great task of uniting the northern black and white urban poor and working class, with the southern black and white rural poor and working class around common economic issues good health care, high quality schools, and affordable housing is the key to wrestling our democracy away from the race-oriented Republican right-wing.

"Democrats were not competitive in the South in 2000, and we have struggled to thrive, and in some instances survive, since Richard Nixon and the Republican Party began using their race-based 'southern strategy' in 1968. The use of race, cultural and social issues have served to distract voters by keeping the focus off of economic issues has been the basic strategy of Bush and the Republicans in the South. That's why they make wedge issues out of prayer in school, the Ten Commandments on public buildings, civil unions, the false allegation that Democrats will take away hunters' gun rights, choice for women, the controversy of having the words 'under God' in the Pledge of Allegiance, and the Confederate Flag. Lest we forget, the Confederate Flag is the Democratic Party's historic contribution to the South, and current Democratic candidates have not been able to figure out how to come to grips with their own historic symbol.

"Normally, rather than directly confronting poor and working class white southerners with a strong economic agenda, Democrats have tried to imitate Republicans on many of these social issues. It is good that we have a candidate offering hope to the South with an economic agenda. It is Dr. Dean who is reminding us that the combination of poor and working class blacks and whites, north and south, united in coalition around a common economic agenda of jobs, health care, education and housing will constitute a winning strategy in 2004," concluded Cong. Jackson.

Posted by Mathew Gross at 07:12 PM
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/002084.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=631124

Did these SOUTHERN, BLACK, Baptists have a problem with Dean's remarks?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=73335

[goforit]

65. Despite my disgust for Confeds....I somehow can see the light in the

tunnel with this statement.

He is trying to rock the Bushies foundation of KKK supporters.

Hmmmmm........ Is this a little spin action of his own.

Throw up chaos to fight the "Bush Chaos"?

Are people smart enough to see the intentions.

It will be interesting.

[NashVegas]

60. What If That Segment Can Be Reached without Being Spoken Down To?

We've been calling these people "knuckledraggers" and similar epithets since I can remember.

Maybe it's time to try honey over vinegar.

[seventhson]

68. Dean's statement was BRILLIANT! In order to DEFEAT RACISM...

those who think Bush is cool have got to be brought into the Democratic progressive tent.

2 Issues do it:

1. US deaths in Iraq (stupid rich oil deaths)

2. Jobs and Helath care (economic security)/

Say what they want about Clinton -- at least rednecks had jobs and money for cars to put their confederate flags on.

We cannot even discuss these issues until we get Dean elected.

Then we can bring our country together for ALL of us (even the rednecks).

[tlb]

61. So now is it time to tell the NAACP to take a hike ?

How about an apology to South Carolina for the confederate flag boycott too?

For years nobody could say ANYTHING positive about the confederate flag or the poeple who display it without being tagged racist. I agree with the point Dean wanted to make, but let's get real, who would be making excuses for the same remarks from a republican.

Does anyone believe excusing Dean " cause we know what he really meant" won't be seen as totally hypocritical? Trying to support the NAACP, the democratic party has put itself in such an absolutist position on the confederate flag that I don't see how Dean can survive this blunder. Even though he is right.

With Sharpton already hitting Dean's "anti-black" agenda, this shapes up as ruinous.

[goforit]

64. Well maybe Dean should create a round table for the Confeds and

the Non-confeds to meet and resolve issues amongst themselves.

Obviously the Confeds are shallow block heads that need
a little or alot of education and self analysis of their
emotional baggage of supremacy.

They just can't get over their racist feelings. They just dwell
in their emotional welfare.

They need to just get off their asses and do something with their
lives instead of crying about their pathetic heritage.

[Khephra]

66. You know?

If Dean's detractors had spent half the time that they spend on going after Dean for comments that they seem to "misunderstand" on purpose on Bush instead, well, Bush would be in the low teens by now.

[RetroLounge]

69. Very well said khephra...

eom

[He loved Big Brother]

71. Indeed khephra

I've been saying that for months now. Erg. :mad:

[curse10]

74. Are you actually insinuating that

people who don't support Dean are helping Bush? I sincerely hope not.

[mandyky]

81. That's not what khepra said

K said that if all you do to try to get your candidate elected, is to bash Dean, if you bashed shrubby that much shrub's poll numbers would be in low teens by now.

In other words, remember who our real opponent is - all of us, no matter who we support.

[Hawkeye-X]

83. You do know that Hacksaw Jim Duggan

is a Republican?

I found this out a long time ago, and refused to support his orgy.

Hawkeye-X

[robbedvoter]

75. What DEAN ACTUALLY SAID (CONTEXT):

Dean has said 2000 Democratic nominee Al Gore lost the election because he failed to win Southern states, where disaffected Democrats who favor gun owners' rights were reluctant to support him.

"I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks," Dean said Friday in a telephone interview from New Hampshire. "We can't beat George Bush unless we appeal to a broad cross-section of Democrats."
http://www.dmregister.com/news/stories/c4789004/22649906.html

So, since Gore lost (huh?) and not to Scalia but to NRA, the logical move is to court NRA!

[saoirse]

79. The (over)reaction perfectly illustrates the problem

The Republicans have been able to make hay with their charge that the Democratic party is dominated by a bunch of hyper-PC elitists who have nothing but scorn for "regular folks" - and that includes people who shop at Wal-Mart and have Confederate flags on their trucks. One reason Dean has been so successful is that he's been able to dispel this notion to some extent by his common sense stands on issues like gun control.

What saddens me is that the people who are trying to cudgel Dean with this remark are doing far more harm to the Democratic Party itself than they are to Howard Dean. Karl Rove must be beside himself with joy.

Start using your brains, people - attacking the other Democratic candidates is inevitable, but you'll accomplish a lot more if you put more effort into going after Bush and the Republicans. That's certainly what Democrats - and, increasingly, the whole country - want to hear.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

80. Well said, thanks!

The irony is that if you are already a Dean supporter, this won't change your mind. Likewise, if you are a Kerry or Gep supporter, you already hate Dean, so what's the difference. And if you are undecided, you might just think these Dems are nuts to be going after one another like this.

Clark, meanwhile, has so far not been attacking his opponents.

[robbedvoter]

82. PC elitists? Spoken like a true RV think tank. "PC" is their invention

It turns the table on us, goody two shoes liberals whose hearts are bleeding for minorities, women and gays. Them wingnuts (who are cool and fun) advance the irreverent "PI" - which entitles them to get away with racism comments and thugish behavior all around. I must say, it was a brilliant move! DU-ers are now using their memes and don't even know they are poshing their agenda.
As for me, there is no candidate great enough to make me embrace the confederate flag to defend him. While ABB still applies, I would never turn my most dear principles inside out just cuz I committed to someone's campaign.
Most posters on this thread remind me of Phil Ochs' "Love me, I am a liberal".The moment it conflicts with your immediate agenda, all the beliefs in equality and respect evaporate. Very sad!
And just to make it clear: I don't consider Dean a racist and I got his point. But for him to use the confederate flag in a quest for unity is as dumb as for bush to say "I admire Lincoln because he united us"
How attached can he be to his figure of speech to not take it back? I think monstruous insensitivity is a fair assesment. Of course, it comes from a PC liberal, so feel free to discount it.