Bono, McCartney press Canada PM on aid, seal hunts

[Omaha Steve]

Paul and Heather may visit ice flows during the hunt! Bono chimes in! (Bono will be here in omaha in 2 weeks)

Friday December 2, 07:20 AM

Bono, McCartney press Canada PM on aid, seal hunts


OTTAWA (AFP) - Bono and Paul McCartney bashed Paul Martin over foreign aid and harp seal hunts, as the vulnerable Canadian prime minister campaigns for re-election.

Criticism from U2 frontman Bono over foreign aid and threats by former Beatle Sir Paul McCartney over Canada's seal hunt came soon after opposition parties united this week to oust Martin's scandal-tainted minority Liberal government in a no-confidence vote.

With the latest opinion polls indicating the Liberals are tied with the opposition Conservatives, pundits worried these dissenting voices could damage Martin's popularity, especially with younger voters, and hurt his chances for re-election.

McCartney sent a letter to Martin on Wednesday threatening to stir up a media storm over Canada's seal hunt if it is allowed to continue.

"We wanted to put you on notice that if Canada moves forward with another hunt next year, we will do all we can to focus attention on this unjustified, outdated and truly horrific practice, including, potentially, visiting the seals and the ice," McCartney wrote, according to local reports.

Martin's government had earlier rebuked animal rights activists angry at seal culls by insisting that the Northwest Atlantic harp seal population remained stable at 5.9 million animals.


In the past two years, animal rights defenders have campaigned strongly to stop the seal hunt, outraged by Canada's increased hunt quotas. Canadian authorities raised the quota to 319,517 seals in 2005 because of the estimated population number.

McCartney and his wife, Heather Mills McCartney, told the Humane Society of the United States they would consider visiting the ice floes where the commercial seal hunt takes place in a bid to draw attention to the issue, according to reports.

McCartney's warning came only days after Bono, who once championed the Canadian leader in hopes of gleaning foreign aid for poor African countries, chastised Martin for failing to meet his aid commitments.

full story: http://au.news.yahoo.com/051201/19/x1i3.html




(AFP Photo) - Bono, McCartney press Canada PM on aid, seal hunts

[Coventina]

1. Hooray for Bono!!

There's a man with compassion in his soul for all creatures.

:loveya:

[The Stranger]

9. Why doesn't Bono speak out against the war?

Or is he afraid to hurt his album sales?

[Coventina]

11. Bono has spoken out against the war

At least, he did at the concert I went to last spring.

I was there, I heard him.

[The Stranger]

36. He said that he didn't think the Iraq War had anything to do with oil.

At least, that is what he said when the reporters were reporting. Guess they don't report what he says between songs at a concert.

Of all the things to be concerned with, what could be more important than the worldwide war launched on the basis of lies? It must have been an elephant sitting in the room between Bono and Bush that Bono can't seem to talk about when it counts.

[Coventina]

48. Wasn't the meeting between Bono & Bush about AIDS?

Why would Bono bring up the war when the meeting was about something else? If he had, Lord Pissypants would have just tossed Bono out and never listened to him about anything ever again.

[LeighAnn]

2. Saw Paul McCartney in Omaha

Recently went to the McCartney show in Omaha, he came back for the encore with a "No More Land Mines" t-shirt on. Catch this concert if you get the chance, no matter how much you spend for tickets, it is a show you will never forget.

[dutchdemocrat]

3. Having worked as a Journalist in the NWT

I'd like to see these two guys cough up and put some money where their mouths are.

I abhor the seal hunt, don't get me wrong... but hundreds of years of colonialism and European demand created the market which the Inuit as well as the Metis, Cree, and Algonquin Natives have been living from since Henry Hudson set up shop in the 17th century.

Without adequate retraining and re-education to replace their economy, the many of the once proud people of the north - will continue to be house-locked, welfare recipients, with substance abuse problems. These are serious problems in Native communities that I have seen first hand.

There are complex issues behind this story that are not well covered in the press. I found, during my tenure as a journalist up there, that many Native Canadians felt anti-sealing activists did little to consider their plight as a people and put the welfare of the animals ahead of their own. They feel that outsiders have taken their livlihood away and now they have lost their traditional way of live which has a lot to do with nature... being outside, hunting and trapping.

Just trying to provide another angle.

DD

[flvegan]

4. The sealers are commercial fisherman seeking

to wipe out their competition and make a little coin on the pelts. It's their own fault the cod stocks are depleted due to, yes, overfishing.

[dutchdemocrat]

5. Link?

Link? After all - I am not only referring to the sealing issue but also the trapping.

I would like to see some proof of rabid Newfies on the rampage.

[Bridget Burke]

7. Frst, supply a link to your assertions.

Prove that all the sealhunters are oppressed Inuit or members of the First Nations.

If so, perhaps the government of Canada should help them find other livelihoods. Can a family survive on seal killing alone? I know that some native peoples follow old traditions & hunt sea mammals. I doubt they take the pelts & let everything else rot.

[dutchdemocrat]

10. I did not say all - first off.

And I also said I abhor it.

And I added that I am trying to express another side.

Because I have been there and you, I suspect, have not.

It's not up to me offer a defense to your statement because nowhere did I use the word 'all'.

I am merely telling from personal experience having lived and worked there with Inuit and Native Canadians.

That's all.

No vitrolic spittle on my side... unlike your posting it appears.

The world is not that black and white.

Koyaanisqatsi is all I can say. Too bad - you don't understand balance.

[Bridget Burke]

12. If you felt the story of these people has not been told....

Why not use your talents as a journalist to do so? This sounds like an important story--but all you will say is that you've been there & I haven't.

Vitriolic spittle?

[dutchdemocrat]

15. I told their story for two years

I lived in their world. I covered tribal events and ate Musk Ox, Bison and Caribou.

Four hundred kilometres to the next small town.

Why don't I write about this? I mean, I am. That's what I am doing.

[Critters2]

18. Actually, very few

of the sealhunters are First Nations. Most are just white guys who like clubbing helpless animals.

[flvegan]

29. Well, the topic

is sealing, which is to what I was referring. Link, as requested:
http://www.hsus.org/marine_mammals/protect_seals/facts_about_the_canadian_seal_hunt.html

[Coventina]

31. Hi flvegan!

:hi:

I have to leave DU for now. I really have pressing scholastic concerns.

Good luck!

:*

[Redstone]

17. Sorry, pal, but you're wrong on this.

Never been to Newfoundland, have you? These people have suffered almost as badly as the cod have from the factory trawlers...which the same factory trawlers are NOT owned by people who live in Newfoundland or Labrador.

Please don't jump to conclusions just because you like animals. You're unfairly maligning poor people who do not deserve your misinformed scorn.

You and I have the luxury of being able to make choices about how we earn our living and feed our families. These people do not.

Redstone

[flvegan]

28. Please read this

It's from HSUS' faq on the hunt:

Who Kills Seals and Why?
Sealing is an off-season activity conducted by fishermen from Canada's East Coast. They make, on average, a small fraction of their annual incomes from sealing—and the rest from commercial fisheries. Even in Newfoundland, where 90% of sealers live, there are only 4,000 fishermen who actively participate in the seal hunt each year.

http://www.hsus.org/marine_mammals/protect_seals/facts_about_the_canadian_seal_hunt.html

[Redstone]

32. "Only 4,000 fishermen?" That's NOT an insignificant percentage

of Newfoundland's fishermen. It's a lightly-populated place. that tells me that report is slanted.

Look, I know you like animals. I do, too. and I wish they wouldn't whack all those seals.

But until you've been to Newfoundland, and seen how poor those people are, you have no right to condemn them.

Hey, there may be someone out ther who doesn't approve of the way you make a living.

It's not for us to judge those people. I know what it's like to live poor in the country. I don't have to do that anymore, and I'm lucky. But if it's the seals or feeding my kids, well it's going to be the seals.

I know we'll never come to an agreeement on this, because I believe people are more important than animals. We'll find other things to be on the same side of, though.

Redstone

[flvegan]

41. I understand what you're saying

I'm not slamming the Newfoundland folks in large. You're right, I've never been there. I believe what you say about how poor they (as a whole?) might be.

However, for middle ground, and sake of a good idea, maybe the Canadian government could spread the $20 million in subsidies they give the seal industry amongst those fisherman? Sounds like a pretty good windfall to me.

Maybe something should be done about the overwhelming destruction of an ecosystem, which is what's happening with the problem of overfishing, which got us here in the first place.

[Redstone]

46. Yes, your idea is ABSOLUTELY the right one. I agree 100%.

My problem is with the people here (including you, before you came to your senses, and I thank you for doing so) who want to play God, and dictate to other people how they should live their lives, and denigrate them because of their race, and blame the poor dumb Newfs for things that are utterly beyond their control.

It's exactly like someone posting on DU and saying that people who work at Wal-Mart are evil because of what the corporation does, and that they should just quit their Wal-Mart jobs and go work somewhere else. As if they had that luxury.

How much would everyone here scream if someone posted that?

Yes, the seal hunt should be rendered unnecessary, and be made to go away. But the only entity that can make that happen is the Canadian Government. Not the poor bastards who do it because they need the money.

(And that 1% statistic is misleading and disingenuous. It's a hell of a lot more than 1% of the income of the actual real, living, breathing human beings who go out on the ice.)

We've come to an agreement again about a contentious issue, you and I. Would that others here could have that spirit of discussion.

I raise a glass to you.

Redstone

[Coventina]

8. I agree with you in part. More needs to be done for the indigenous

peoples all over the world. Not just in Canada.

However, don't over-romanticize the idea about "traditional way of life."

The traditional way of life of my ancestors consisted of sailing up and down the coastlines of Europe, killing, burning, looting and raping all the way. I hardly want to bring that back!

Trapping is cruel, no matter if it's done by suburbanites or Inuits.
It needs to go the same way as the Viking "traditional way of life".

So yes, if it comes to a seal about to be clubbed in the head, and a person's "quality of life" I'm going to go with the seal. That's a momentary issue of life or bloody death.

[dutchdemocrat]

13. Then you really have to analyse

Then you really have to analyse everything you eat and everything you do.

Because every morsel of meat you put in your mouth. Every plant you eat (and yes plants scream when they are cut) is a barbaric act.

I am not romantisizing it. Not at all.

Just trying to create balance and a level argument because I have been privy to both sides having worked with Greenpeace Amsterdam and been a journalist in the Native Press in the Northwest Territories. People that are serious about the problem understand the ethical and racial boundaries that the Canadian government is dealing with here... in terms of sealing, hunting, trapping etc. And the concerns of the Native, indigenous people of the country.

I DON'T hunt. I don't trap. Then again, I don't endorse cultural genocide.

I buy my groceries from the supermarket nicely wrapped.

But someone slits the throat. An animal or a plant's life (if you beleive in the concept of Gaia) is extinguished to feed another.

I think the seal hunt and commercial trapping should be ended. Sure. I just hate to see blind anger and ignorance from people who refuse to take into consideration - the Native Canadian perspective. Period.

And I think they do too.

[Coventina]

16. I think people SHOULD analyze everything they do and eat.

I'm not arguing against that at all.

The more mindfulness people bring to their actions and the consequences the better.

What is your proposed solution? What would bring "balance" to this situation?

What I gathered from your previous post is that the Native Canadian population believe that they should be able to continue hunting seals because it's "tradition" and the world "owes" it to them for previous wrongs done to them.

Neither of those reasons are satisfactory in my book.
I realize that there are those who would disagree with me, and maybe you are one of them.

I don't see how forbidding specific acts of cruelty is committing "cultural genocide."

[LeftyMom]

44. Plants don't have a nervous system

They don't feel hurt. They have chemical reactions to injury to promote healing, but these are in no way analogous to pain in animals.

Pardon me, I'm going to go stab the shit out of a potato and toss it in the oven. I promise it won't feel a thing.

PS A pound of animal flesh takes many pounds of plant matter to consume, so even if plants did feel pain the best way to minimize that would eba plant based diet.

[ernstbass]

6. BRAVO!!!!

:toast:

[Redstone]

14. OK, so is Mister Holypants Bono going to feed the families of the

Newfs who rely on the seal hunt to make a living?

One last time: Much as we would all like it to be different, there are NO opportunities for the poor people of Labrador and Newfoundland to get more politically-correct jobs like, say, designing Web pages.

Opportunities to make a living as a meddling do-gooder are even scarcer.

Anybody doesn't want those people to hunt seals? Fine. Provide them with a job in a different line of work.

Unless you're willing to do that, you have no right to tell them they shouldn'thunt seals.

Redstone

[Coventina]

19. Bono is always campaigning for the world's sick and poor.

Just because Bono opposes the seal hunt doesn't mean he's in favor of people starving.

[Redstone]

20. That's fine. But he needs to do some research in this case.

Sorry; I'm sure he means well, but I get REALLY sick and tired of people wanting to tell other people "hey, you can't do that for a living" without providing any alternatives.

Redstone

[Coventina]

21. I'm sure the Canadian gov't (just like the US gov't) ought to be

doing more for the indigenous peoples.
And I'm sure Bono would be the first person to say it.
Getting poor populations back on their feet has been one of Bono's main causes for many years now.

With pressure to stop the seal hunt, hopefully that will apply pressure to the Canadian government to do something about the poverty and lack of opportunity that these people face.

[Bridget Burke]

23. At least people are talking about the issue--thanks to Bono.

He makes financial contributions to various causes.

He also likes to stir up shit--in the best way possible. People listen to him & maybe they start thinking.

[Redstone]

24. Well, the Newfs are not "indigenous," they're white.

I guess that's why a lot of people don't have as much sympathy for them as they do for "native" poor people.

But poor is poor, no matter your color. And po' folks don't get the luxury of choice that many of us fortunate ones have.

I get angry when people comdemn other people without knowing their circumstances. There seems to be all manner of compassion for animals around here, but precious little for people when it comes to this seal hunt business.

Redstone

[Coventina]

26. Compassion isn't a zero-sum game.

As someone who has made a committment to living compassionately (on ongoing process that is a continual challenge), I feel that I can be concerned for all animals, humans included.

I am concerned about human poverty and suffering.
I am also concerned about suffering and death of other animals.

If I am faced with a situation of poor person about to club a seal, I am going to take the side of the seal. Life over death. That doesn't mean I am blind or insensitive to poverty or any other injustice. It's just that death, in that moment, trumps other concerns.

Stop the killing.
If the Newfs are in danger of starving, that should be recitified quickly as well. If they are jobless, that needs to be recified. If they need education/training that is another concern to be addressed. But they are less pressing than the immediate, bloody, horrific deaths of other creatures.

[Redstone]

30. But the jobs have to come FIRST.

That's what is so shortsighted about the people who just scream "STOP KILLING THE SEALS" without wanting to consider the ramifications.

It's pretty damned unfair to want to take away someone's livelihood, and THEN thing about how they're going to eat.

I like animals, too. A lot. But I think people are more important. Call me a "speciesist" or whatever, but that's how I feel.

Redstone

[Coventina]

33. Livlihoods have been taken away since the invention of the wheel

humans have a way of adapting. We are the dominate species because of that. And I think that with that comes a responsibility to care for our weaker animal cousins. That's how I feel.

I have full confidence that the Canadian government would not let anyone starve because they can't kill seals anymore.

[Redstone]

37. Easy for you to say, since it's not YOUR livelihood.

Redstone

[Omaha Steve]

38. Redstone can't seem to read

See the post about how seals are 1% of the income for all sealers. Somehow that 1% ain't going to take meat off the table. Other wise they would eat the meat, instead of leaving it on the ice for all to see! Now say again they are hunting for coats but not meat. These sealers in the photo don't look native to me.

[Redstone]

39. OK, let me get hold of some people in Newfoundland, and ask them

to give you some ideas on how you should live your life.

If you feel you have the right to dictate to them, why shouldn't turnaround be fair play?

Redstone

[Coventina]

47. I am not being flippant about poverty. I know poverty intimately.

I have been homeless. I have been on welfare.

I have lost my livelihood. I have had that experience. For a week I was completely devastated and was ready to give up and die.

But, I dusted myself off and found something else to do. It wasn't easy, it wasn't pleasant. But it eventually led to better things for me.

I cannot believe that anyone who is mentally healthy would want to hunt seals. If they are so desperate that this is the only way they can eke out a living, the Canadian government needs to be strongly encouraged to do something that gives these people options.

[President Kerry]

42. just one problem..

they don't make a "living" out of sealing. they make a small part of their living (maybe 10% of their income, forget the actual figure). They are fishermen. What the government needs to do is not subsidize this cruel practice, but offer alternatives. The money is being spent, so the money is there. I agree it may require some creative thinking and shifting some established ways. But it's better in the long run. Sealing is NOT a matter of life and death for the sealers. It is for the seals, and for an entire ecosystem.

[Omaha Steve]

25. Answer this then

When Ireland had a potato famine, people left for other land like North America. These were people that were broke too. Why don't the white Newfoundlanders move to some place else?

[Redstone]

34. And the Irish died by the hundreds of thousands.

They didn't just all pack up, tra-la, and trip off merrily to America.

That argument is not only stupid, it's simplistic.

Redstone

[Omaha Steve]

22. This is not about native Canadians or food from their mouths

Tell me the number of natives that depend on this 1% to make a living. I'm part native American. My people were moved over a 1,000 miles when the Europeans wanted their land. On a forced march to Oklahoma, 1,000's of Cherokee died. If there are a few natives that don't skin the seals alive, I'd be glad to grant an exemption. Or move them in a humain way to a better part of Canada. Snow crab is the major money maker in this region by white men. Seal furs are off season extra cash. Below is from a press release that goes ignored.


WASHINGTON (November 22, 2005) – In a letter to Prime Minister Paul Martin released today, famous financial and business leader Edward A. Kangas warned that continuing the annual commercial seal hunt could bring ruin to Canada’s fisheries economy and the viability of that nation’s fisheries. Kangas, former global chairman and CEO of Deloitte & Touche and currently a member of the Board of Directors of four New York Stock Exchange companies, cited the increasing success of a boycott of Canadian seafood, instituted by The Humane Society of the United States, as a major factor in the multi-million dollar losses suffered by the commercial fishing industry.


Undeniable cruel, the annual commercial seal hunt, which results in the clubbing deaths of hundreds of thousands of baby seals, is an off-season activity conducted by commercial fishermen from Canada’s East Coast. Even in Newfoundland, where more than 90 percent of the sealers live, sealing income accounts for less than one percent of that province’s gross domestic product and under three percent of the landed value of Newfoundland’s fishery.


Rather than continuing the seal hunt, Kangas recommended that the Canadian government institute a fair sealing license retirement program, which would provide sealers with fair compensation for any lost revenue and a cost-effective exit for the federal government. “It would seem reckless and irresponsible for the government to allow the seal hunt to continue given the damage which may result to the economic viability of Canada’s fisheries and fishing communities,” Kangas said.

[ozone_man]

27. These are not indigenous peoples

as far as I know. These are Newfoundland fishermen, right?

It's a very different situation when considering native people's subsistence rights in contrast to people of European descent.

Also, we can't compare in a direct way hunting or trapping of wild animals to domestic animal concerns, not to imply that I don't have concerns about the way we may treat livestock.

I would treat this in the same way as I view whaling by the Norwegians or Japanese, the only two countries that still conduct this barbaric activity as far as I know.

Certain things in life provide powerful symbols or images that people can relate to. If we treat the rest of nature in a kinder way, we might start treating each other in a kinder way too.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

35. Very good post---True in every sense --if we treat nature in a kinder way

the "Golden Rule"---the cornerstone of civilization
Don't they teach this concept to kindergarteners" ???

Why did so many who consider themselves adults miss this?

[Redstone]

40. Aha. So as long as they're white, they don't matter?

I find the racism that's been running through this thread to be very disappointing.

I thought we liberals / progressives were supposed to be color-blind?

Redstone

[Omaha Steve]

43. Martin Sheen seal video

R U this wrong ALL the time? I said they obviously don't need the seals for food. They don't eat the meat, it is left on the ice to rot. How can 1% of their income mean so much. They lost more than 5% on snow crab this year. I ain't heard you saying they are dying from that. But the white people you are so worried about can pick up and move inland or wherever they want to go. Let the natives keep the land of their ancestors for a change. I wish my ancestors could get back the blue ridge mountains the white men chased them off of. Watch the video and say we animal lovers are so wrong.


http://www.seashepherd.org/seals/seals.html

[Redstone]

45. So let me see if I get this right.

Because something bad happened to your ancestors, that gives you the right to dictate to other people where to live and how to make their living?

And here I thought we liberals / progressives were supposed to have compassion for our fellow human beings?

By the way, I'm half Pennacook Indian and half Irish. My Pennacook ancestors died, they died by the hundreds from white mens' diseases, there on the frozen rocks of New Hampshire. My Irish ancestors died, they died by thousands, starving among the blighted fields of potatoes, from Trevallian's Grain Laws.

But none of that make me God, nor gives me the right to dictate other people's lives.

Redstone