Mother of alleged victim in teacher sex case does not want trial

[Thom Little]

The case of a former teacher accused of having sex with a 14-year-old middle school student should not go to trial after a judge rejected a plea agreement, the teenager's mother said.

Circuit Judge Hale Stancil on Thursday turned down a plea agreement that would allow Debra Lafave, 25, to avoid a prison sentence.

Lafave was charged in 2004 with two counts of lewd and lascivious battery and one count of lewd and lascivious exhibition after she allegedly had sex with the student in an SUV while another teenager drove in Marion County.

.......

"I strongly feel it would further victimize my son if he was forced to testify in court," the woman wrote. Her name has been withheld to protect her son's identity.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FL_TEACHER_SEX_FLOL-?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

[GrumpyGreg]

1. If it was my son I wouldn't want the trial either. I would just

give the kid a good boot in the ass !!!!!!

[Conservativesux]

2. It isnt up to you or the boy's folks. The DA makes the decison to go to

trial, and I certainly hope he does. She is guilty as all sin.

She could get 15 years in prison for raping a child like this boy.

[architect359]

4. To hell with the DA

If the family decides to withdraw, they should be able to withdraw. If the DA wishes to peruse this, that's their perogative. They just have to supeona them. If the family decides underwise, that's a different story.

[Conservativesux]

5. They have to respond to a supeona, so what the DA says, still goes.

I am sick and tired of all these women getting away with the child molestation of boys, while the opposite is punished in the extream.

Either we have equality or we do not.

It cant keep on going on like this.

[Porcupine]

7. So we destroy the womans life for this?

Make no mistake; I think there should be legal sanctions for adults having sex with teenagers. I just think the pretense that voluntary sex with post-pubescent teens does not amount to the level of forcible rape or sexual activity with pre-pubescent teens.

We cannot continue to jail everyone for everything forever. It just doesn't work. Eventually we have to decide that at some point, teens are not children, yet not adults must bear the weight of some of their decisions themselves.

This "child" could be sentanced as an adult in some states to life in prison. Tell me that this makes sense.

[joeunderdog]

11. Just curious...

do you feel the same way if the genders were different?

[Conservativesux]

33. Any Man who had done the same would have his life destroyed...

...so a big YES to your question.

I want equality for both men and women, and we dont have that right now, do we?

Rape a child, go to prison. Its that simple

[LisaL]

43. Yea, how can we destroy her life for this? She is so pretty,

she can't go to prison. Only ugly people should go to prison, according to her lawyer, anyway.

[pagandem4justice]

48. Well, there is a question of degree...

...yet, while there is no doubt in my mind that there is a difference of degrees between say, a case like this versus that of a violent rape of a 5 year old child, there was still a crime committed here.

So, while I believe that yes, we should treat *sentencing of* sex offenses differently depending on the circumstance and the age and/or consent (in statutory cases only) of the victim, there still remains the fact that this *is* a crime that was perpetrated against a minor by an adult who had the legal responsibility to "know better." Whether the crime was violent is beside the point in the case of culpability (just, IMO, in the case of sentencing). This woman coerced a teenager to have sex with her. Hence, she is a sex offender, and should be punished.

Please, no moaning about "this woman's life being ruined," as I don't think that this would be the case if the offender were a male, and the victim female.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

78. Yeah, I'm sure sure she had to "coerce" him

<sarcasm>

[LiberalFighter]

73. Until the law is changed and even then...

there is the issue of a person in power or authority over another person especially a minor. That person has a duty by law to not take advantage of their position whether by consent or not.

I don't agree that the woman should necessarily go to jail but she should receive punishment that still sends a message to anyone else that may consider doing the same thing. In addition, the woman should not be eligible for any govt assistance if she gets pregnant. Instead, based on the circumstances determined by the judge the boy and/or parents of the boy should also provide support.

I am not advocating that the above should be strictly followed but it is a starting point to determine what happens.

And yes, when both parties consent then both should suffer the consequences but not on the same level of a minor that is forced physically, mentally or other means. There shouldn't be a blanket crime and punishment for the crime for all situations.

[Andromeda]

54. All these women???

I can only think of three. THREE! That's hardly an epidemic.

[michaelwb]

68. Really

"I can only think of three."

The Siren Song of Sex With Boys NYT article with more referenced, but more importantly read down a couple of paragraphs and see the following:

Though it might seem that way from the headlines, women having sex with teenage boys is not new. A federal Department of Education study called "Educator Sexual Misconduct," released last year, found that 40 percent of the educators who had been reported for sexual misconduct with students were women.
....
But the cases also reflect a decline in the double standard applied to men and women, brought on, he said, by increasing numbers of female prosecutors and police officers who may not buy into the traditional notion that a boy who has sex with an older woman just got lucky.

Sounds like quite a few of this cases simply aren't making the national news. Now that the cases are starting to be reported and students are more willing to report them and the police to take them seriously - we'll probably see more of these cases in the news.

Just like how rapes of women were underreported because of the police and press not taking them seriously and victims being hesitant to report them because of it.

[patcox2]

23. "Victims rights" means only when the victim is vindictive?

Thats funny, you hear so much whining about "victims' rights," but apparently they are only respected when the victim is baying for blood.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. I don't blame her

I wouldn't want my kid to go through this either.

[LisaL]

6. I imagine not many rape victims look forward to testifying.

But they do, every day. So, I would say that this mother should get with the program. Her son is no different from any other rape victim-if they can testify, why shouldn't he?

[TheWraith]

9. Her son wasn't a rape victim.

At least, from all I heard, he was a willing participant until it got uncovered, and he agreed to help the police catch her. Having consentual sex with a 15-year-old is not rape. It may be illegal and/or immoral, but I think that equating any kind of consentual sex with sexual assault is ridiculous and archaic.

[Bridget Burke]

12. Some of the victims of molestation by Catholics priests....

Were not unwilling. But they were still underage. So the priests committed a crime--statutory rape. It was unfortunate that the parents did not go directly to the secular authorities. Of course, it was totally wrong for the Church not to file criminal charges--as many here at DU rush to remind us whenever the Church is mentioned.

Should this woman go free because she initiated a heterosexual relationship? Is a homosexual relationship inherently more evil? I don't think so. But some do.

[WildClarySage]

13. Sorry, but according to the statutes of the law, it *is* rape.

Statutory rape. A minor is not considered capable of giving consent. The phrase would be just as appliciable if the genders were reversed.

I would not want my child to be forced to testify- but I would encourage it because there should be no shame in being raped. The shame should belong to the rapist, not his/her victim. The perpetrator crossed the line and acted to harm the victim.

[TheWraith]

34. Whether the law is capable of recognizing it or not, a minor is capable

Of giving consent and/or being a willing participant--perhaps not legally, but factually. That's a reality of life. It's a farce to pretend that because this boy was 15 and not 18, that this woman's actions were exactly equal to holding someone at gunpoint and secually assaulting them. It helps to call things what they are.

[LisaL]

42. So, if pedophile gives candy to a six year old, and convinces

that 6 year old to have sex, that's fine and dandy to you? Rape doesn't have to involve physical force.

[TheWraith]

57. Strawman much?

As you well know, we're talking about a sexually mature teenager who knew what he was doing, not a child. You should be ashamed of trying to win an argument by painting the other viewpoint as being pro-pedophile. That's a Fox News tactic.

[Porcupine]

45. The law acknowledges that if the boy-child kills somebody

Then he will called an adult and a superpredator and face life in prison or possibly the death penalty. "The Law" is an idiot, incapable of perceiving nuance or making graduated judgements.

Many people on this board want to pretend that a 14 year old boy is somehow a baby that has to be protected from the big bad world. Well folks, when I was 14 my freinds and I had guns, and knives and all sorts of bad stuff and yet we didn't seriously hurt anyone or burn down the neighborhood.

Time to get real in this nation.

[LisaL]

47. Well, if he is an adult, why not give him a driving license and

a bottle of vodka?
He is not an adult, he can't drive, he can't legally drink, and he can't vote.

[Porcupine]

51. But he can still be sent to prison for life? How fair is that?

People in the US do not seem to be able to nuance anything anymore. To read some of these posts all punishments should be implemented in all cases to people as young as possible. All privilidges should be denied until the latest possible age. This country is nuts.

We allow teens to work as farm labor and work fishing boats; the most dangerous jobs in America. They are allowed to ride horses, jetskis, drag racers and motorcycles; all sports that regularly involve crippling or fatal accidents. They can drive automobiles; the single largest cause of death in teens. But they can't legally have sex?

[Baconfoot]

56. What to you have to say about giving 14 year olds the vote?

My guess is you don't want to give them the vote because they can't be trusted to make judgments yet.

[architect359]

52. and yet when he kills

he CAN be judged as adult as sentenced as such when found guilty.

[LisaL]

75. But he can not be executed for the murder.

This boy is not an adult. He doesn't have the same rights as any adult.

[confludemocrat]

85. can't equate sex w/ mechanical devices, civic duties, or drugs

Sex is not a licensed or civically assigned social privilege. It is the one that doesn't fit with the other three. He was not raped. If it was distasteful or repugnant what he was invited to do, then he could have left, no evidence of coercion or any real violation. There are no serial women sex offenders, doesn't happen, yet shes's treated like one now. The harm to him as his mother sees will really come from the media spotlight, not from his being traumatized from a bunch of hot sessions of sex.

[LiberalFighter]

74. Some kids commit crimes under cover of law

knowing that they won't suffer the same consequences as adults.

There are times to give a minor child a second chance and other times they need more serious help IMMEDIATELY.

[Baconfoot]

55. it's actually not a reality of life that such a person can give consent

It's actually not a reality of life that underage people can give consent.
They lack two things: 1) The level of informedness necessary to give consent. 2)The capacity to make judgments on the level of an adult.
Go ahead and "Poo Poo" but their brains are actually physically different. They aren't done cooking yet. Go visit a mall in NJ and you will acquire plenty of anecdotal evidence on this score.

This is the age group that is capable of mistaking NKOTB and N'SYNC (sp?) for music.

[TheWraith]

58. I hear plenty of crappy music played by people in their 40s and 50s, too.

Technically, a human brain isn't fully mature until a person is in their mid 20s. Does that mean that we can't treat anyone as being mature until they're 30? No drinking, driving, sex, or voting for people of less than three decades? No. Getting a handle on all of those things is part of what defines becoming an adult. And if you think the youths aren't "informed," try visiting those malls more often and listening to them talk. The main reason why they aren't more and better informed is because of adults who insist that they're too young to know things like that--headbutting right into reality.

[shimmergal]

66. Well, "the level of informedness

necessary to give consent" may be lacking in _anyone_ who's still a virgin, no matter what his/her age. How can they _really_ know what they're getting into? (just kidding--maybe)

More seriously, on their brains not being fully developed yet: Yes, that's true, but in most males the brains don't reach an adult level of functioning until the mid-twenties. So do we want to say that a 23-year-old male is also a child incapable of giving consent? If not, why not?

[jbnow]

62. They are calling it what it is

Statutory rape

[LisaL]

41. Statutory rape.

You can not be willing until you reach a certain age. Otherwise, pedophiles will declare themselves in love with 7 year olds, and say they were willing. Just because there wasn't physical force, doesn't mean it wasn't rape.

[TheWraith]

59. See my post #57 for why you need to apologize. NT.

[Porcupine]

46. No more than my brother was. Very similiar situations.

My brother at 13 was 6 feet and 170 lbs. A family friend in her early twenties took it upon herself to "help him out" at that age. The kid was thrilled. No, he did not turn either into a sex maniac or avoid women. These two still see each other every few years and they act like any other two adults that had a night together 20 years ago.

The woman is now an upstanding member of our community. If she had been punished for this my town would have missed a valuable citizen who contributes far more than many many wallyworld, tv-addicted "consumers." My brother builds secret electronic gizmos that are sold to the military.

In some cases the courts do more harm than good.

[jbnow]

63. You know, I was thinking

how it would seem different if it were a neighbor lady or something that opened her arms that way to a young man.

There is something different when it is a teacher, a position of authority and a very young person. It's not that many 14 year olds wouldn't like sex but a teacher should never be who provides it.

[pagandem4justice]

49. He is a rape victim

Rape involves coersion. Sometimes it is violent, sometimes not. Sometimes it involves penetration, sometimes not. Sometimes the victim realizes the situation at the moment, sometimes he or she realizes later that the coersion was wrong.

The degree of convictability may vary, but they are all rape.

:banghead:

[TheWraith]

60. There's scant evidence that he was coerced into anything.

Realistically, most 14-15 year old boys, if propositioned by an attractive older woman, would have their pants around their ankles before you could say "randy."

[AtTheEndOfTheDay]

76. Exactly.

I remember being that age and I'd have been tickled pink. This boy most likely could have made things not proceed if he were so inclined. Unless she was holding a grade over his head as coercion.

[arewenotdemo]

53. Agreed

I think it's preposterous.

[JNelson6563]

15. Every case is different

I wouldn't force a teenager who was actually raped to testify. I have seen up close and personal such situations and I would never say such a flippant, ignorant remark:

So, I would say that this mother should get with the program. Her son is no different from any other rape victim-if they can testify, why shouldn't he?

His case, the sex was consensual, in cases where it was not, a statement such as yours would be inexcusable, even with an eye to the depths of ignorace it reveals.

Julie

[noamnety]

19. I wouldn't force ANY rape victim to testify

Having seen for myself how the system works.

I would think long and hard before agreeing to testify if I were the victim witness. That distinction is an important one. You don't get any say over the attorney. The DA can lie or misrepresent what you were doing, you have no recourse.

Wearing a sweatshirt and painter's overalls when it happened? Sit back and listen while the DA (who's supposed to be on your side) tells the jury you were dressed "provocatively." Walking home at 11pm after your shift at work ended? Enjoy listening to him talk about how you were walking home at 5am - putting the thought in the jury's mind that you were coming home from illicit activities, even though he doesn't say it directly.

Two years worth of hearings and trials to watch the guy that raped you disappear on bail?

No thanks, I'd pass on that. And if it happened to my daughter, I'd support her no matter whether she decided to testify or not.

[gordonlamb]

8. Can't children testify via videotape?

Can't children testify via videotape and/or closed circuit TV where they don't have to actually be in the courtroom?

[noamnety]

30. Does that make it acceptable?

I don't know a lot of 14 year olds that would be comfortable being forced to talk about the details of their sex life on video tape for a bunch of strangers as well as their parents.

I know that would have been traumatic for me at that age - heck, it would be traumatic now. I wouldn't want to discuss my sex life with my spouse on video tape for a bunch of strangers in a courtroom to watch. Would you?

There are two issues here. One is what's justice for the teacher (being prosecuted and locked up, obviously), the other is what's best for the child. Being forced to testify against your will is like being raped all over again. It's humiliating, it's a violation of your privacy, it takes all power and control away from the victim and puts them at the mercy of someone else.

[truthisfreedom]

10. i think this is a very unusual case, and i think the parents know what's

best. i remember being 14. i know what was on my mind. i can't visualize this kid as being the victim of much more than a seriously broken heart, unless she gave him an incurable disease.

[WildClarySage]

14. Are you seriously suggesting that the appearance of the rapist

should have some bearing on the guilt/innocence of the allegation? That someone who is attractive can be excused from rape because 'who wouldn't wanna sleep with him/her"?

[slackmaster]

16. Statutory rape is not the same as forcible rape

From the 14-YO boy's perspective it was a consensual act.

BTW I find the woman attractive but it's upsetting to think of how psychologically disturbed she must be.

The boy will probably get over it.

[WildClarySage]

17. Yeah and five year olds have been convinced that having sex

with an adult is ok too. The problem is that we consider children to be minors for a reason. If they are in fact capable of making informed personal choices that can lead to lifetime consequences, then lets afford them majority status. If a fifteen-year-old can decide that it's ok to have sex and risk STD's, pregnancy, etc. that can have lifetime consequences, lets give them access to credit cards, marriage licences, alcohol, all legal weapons, driving priviliges, etc.

Forcible rape is a whole other ball of wax, but statutory rape is also a non-consensual crime because children older than the minor in this case have been taken advantage of by manipulating adults. And just 'cause she's pretty doens't mean she should have a right to take advantage of fourteen/fifteen yr olds.

[slackmaster]

18. The law tries to make black or white something that has shades of gray

There's a big difference between a 5-year-old who has been taken advantage of by an adult and a 14-year-old like the boy in this situation.

[WildClarySage]

20. My personal experience tells me otherwise,

that at 17, I was traumatized by the manipulation of an adult whose crime was statutory in nature. I don't care to discuss details, but please take it from me that children who are harmed by adults who commit these crimes can be devestated by them. Children, even older children do not have the coping skills to deal with the guilt that accompanies a rape crime- particularly when they may believe that their complicity was
the actual crime. And the appearance of the perpetrator has no bearing whatsoever on the situation. But go ahead and tell yourself that the survivor will likely get over it if that rationalizes rape for you. After all, she was awfully pretty.

[Evergreen Emerald]

21. well said WildClarySage

A child is much more easily manipulated into a sexual act. It is not necessarily about choice, but rather about coercion and power and control. And the consequences for the victim--even when it is a male--are significant.

Gaining complicity of the child through prohibited acts (like enticing them with alcohol or cigarettes) is an extremely good manipulation tool. Many times the perpetrators create a situation where the children cannot tell without admitting that they also did something wrong. They use it to assure silence and guilt.

I am sorry about what happened to you WCS.

[NashVegas]

29. You Don't Know the Details of This Case

As much as LeFave was doing something illegal and immoral in have an affair with the kid, you don't know he was manipulated in the way that a clueless pre-pubescent is.

If this sex was in any way consensual, all this hysteria is doing is making him feel guilt and shame over something he possibly enjoyed. You're going to make him get on a witness stand and make him join in the prosecuation of something he enjoyed? How confusing are these messages? What a great way to screw up a kid's head even more.

Lafave was sentenced in Hillsborough County to three years of house arrest and seven years probation after pleading guilty Nov. 22 to two counts of lewd and lascivious battery for having sex with the boy in a classroom and her home.

A similar sentence had been expected in the plea agreement in Marion County - to which prosecutors and defense attorney John Fitzgibbons had agreed. Under the plea, Lafave would have been required to register as a sex offender, to forfeit her teaching certificate, submit to warrant-less searches, and wear an electronic monitoring device when the court requires it.

She would not have been allowed unsupervised contact with minors and would not have been permitted to drive alone without permission from her community control officer.

That's not exactly a slap on the wrist.

[Robb]

22. And my personal experience tells me the opposite

And I won't get into it either. But everyone, every case is different. Examining and questioning them is not "rationalizing rape."

[WildClarySage]

24. No, but saying that it's not rape since the perpetrator is attractive

is.

[Robb]

25. Which I don't see above

And don't see where a reasonable person could, other than in the posting of her picture.

I think putting her looks on the table adds context, not justification. There's a difference, and this is a discussion.

Again, every situation is different. There are many that seem similar. How one person reacts and copes is not the same as how the next person does.

However, saying someone is "justifying rape" is an unfair and inflammatory, an unreasonable straw man. Hitler. ;)

[WildClarySage]

27. "other than in the posting of her picture"

which is, in fact, the point addressed in my initial comment regarding the photo. The implication, if not the statement, came across to me as "this is ok because it was a pretty girl who had sex with a boy so he couldn't possibly be traumatized unless she damaged him with a disease." The appearance of the criminal is not pursuant to the crime- except to the extent that the perpetrator is forgiven for acting against the law based on that appearance or that the perpetrator's appearance is a factor in facilitating the crime. Whether or not the victim was traumatized by the crime is not apparent by the details so far released, and the tendency to assume that a crime has not been committed because the perpetrator is attractive is a justification, Hitler or no.

[Sin]

28. 14 year old boy hot blond teacher.

ummm = every 14 year old boys wildest fantasy
so I don't see him fighting back to much on that one.

and yes she is attractive hence probably why it was consensual
The court case surrounding there activities was probably more damaging to the kid then the act it self.

and if it was me at 14 that wouldn't be rape that would be like wining the lottery or finding a golden ticket in a candy bar.

so in part ya I don't know about just saying that its not rape because the perpetrator is attractive
but yea it would be a different story if she was different looking because the kid would probably have fought back and then it wouldn't be consensual, at that point he probably would have been charge with assault and trying to rape her.

[slackmaster]

31. I take it you became immune to that on your 18th birthday

:freak:

Some people are able to handle adult sexual interactions in their mid-teens. Some people in their 20s are not.

[jbnow]

64. Having worked with some abused kids

many who were very young, under 10, don't know that they were forced. They liked the attention and it felt good. It does feel good to have your genitals touched.

What age do you suggest be the line between crime and not crime?

Does a teacher have special responsibility to NOT get into sexual relationships? I think they do.

[slackmaster]

80. Absolutely agree - No teacher should ever get involved with a student

Even if the student is of age.

[400Years]

26. a 15 year old is very different from a 5 year old

acting like this kid was victimized is a little over the top.

I really doubt this kid regets anything other than being caught.

It's not PC but sometimes reality demands otherwise.

[confludemocrat]

86. Why should she be considered psychologically disturbed?

and why the constant mention of 5,6, and 7 year olds? As someone else said here: these are Fox News type arguments I am hearing. This was a kid in his teens, sexually mature. Stick to the facts. And she was 23 or so. Borderline case. Justice should be able to deal with that appropriately, not automatically call him a "rape victim" and her a pervert. It's just not true.

[kitkatrose]

32. Okay fine. Let's flip the script.

An attractive male teacher sleeps with a 14 year old girl who says it was consentual. Is it the same thing? If not, explain why.

[slackmaster]

35. Obviously not the same situation at all

Everyone knows boys and girls are different.

:hide:

[kitkatrose]

36. Oh, obviously.

Girls can't handle a sexual relationship that young, but boys can. :eyes: This debate gets old real quick; I don't even know why I posted in here.

[michaelwb]

38. Head exploding.

Why not really make some heads explode?

Since it's okay, according to some posters here, for a woman to commit statutory rape of a teenage boy, because boys are "different" - why all the fuss when a man commits statutory rape of a teenage boy.

I've never once seen the "boys" are different rationalization trotted out in same sex cases only when it involves hetereosexual ones.

Yet I've seen people leap to cries of pedophile and predator in cases of consensual older man teenage boy cases.

Any explanation that isn't based in homophobia.

[kitkatrose]

40. Oh, I never even thought of that one.

Let's see if someone comes up with an answer for you.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[michaelwb]

71. Ha!

Let's see if someone comes up with an answer for you.

Welcome to DU!

I doubt we'll see an answer. There's just way too many double standards floating around this issue.

In some ways attitudes about this issue are back where they were decades ago for women reporting rape. "Oh, he was good looking. She probably enjoyed it. She wanted it." etc. Funny how the same type of arguments keep coming up. "Oh she was good looking. He probably enjoyed it. He wanted it." etc.

You can argue about the point if the age for consent is consistent and rational, but it is there and should apply equally regardless of the sex of the victim or victimizer. PERIOD. Equality means equality.

*sigh* Thankfully its slowly starting to get reported. Now if we can just get progressives around here to take it seriously, maybe we can get the rest of the country to follow.

BTW, no need to welcome me since I've been here for years. Check the profile not the posts for checking time around DU.

[DarbyUSMC]

87. Dear Head Exploding,

You have a valid point, no doubt. In my experience, which was watching my best friend, with a heart of gold invite a young lonely man into their lives, the boy did not want the sexual advances of the man. The guilt he felt over it was overwhelming and yet the man continued until found out. The boy was too embarrassed to tell his father or his mother. So, it all depends on the kid. If, indeed the kid had been attracted to the man and something happened, you'd have an argument there. Maybe we don't hear about those boys; only the ones who end up with their egos shattered or even commit suicide over the guilt. It seems the older man makes sure the kid thinks it is his fault that anything happened. This boy thought the world of this scout leader/lector in the church.
Also in my experience as a teenage girl, boys who are in puberty would go at it with a tailpipe on a car if they were sure no one would see them. I'm not saying that is wrong, just that they are hot to trot but there has to be a "willing" partner. In this case? It's a conundrum. A girl can want an older man so bad she can't sleep at night. She can dress like she is eighteen, flirt, make sure she is always around him, accidentally brush up against him; he finally takes the bait which sends her to seventh heaven but when found out------he's busted. For that reason, the authorities have to redefine their laws. One girl at fifteen may be totally mature and look over eighteen and even have a counterfeit ID. Another girl at fifteen may look and act like a twelve year old. I think each case has to be looked at closely, considering all the facts and the status of the people involved.

[jbnow]

65. Yet the age of consent

when it varies by gender in a state...is always older for the boy then for the girl. For instance in Iowa a female can consent at 14, a male must be 18.

It is never a younger age for males in the USA, but often is in other countries. Odd.

[lolly]

37. Well, #1 Reason . .

14-year-old girls can get pregnant; 14-year-old boys can't.

Here's something I'm wondering about, though. And I'm serious here, no flaming or whatever.

What would happen in a situation like this one if the adult woman got pregnant?
Would the boy and/or his family be liable for any kind of child support?

I remember in the Mary Kay LeTourneau thing, the boy's parents got custody of the babies--but I don't know if most parents would want to do that.

And what are the mother's rights to the baby in this case?

So, in some ways, this is a thornier issue than man/young girl. If the 14 year-old girl got pregnant in a statutory rape case, the adult male would obviously be on the hook for support. But if the male is considered the victim, what gives? Should the baby suffer from lack of support?

[kitkatrose]

39. So pregnancy makes the difference

in calling the two situations rape? What if that were removed, the girl was on bc or couldn't have kids for whatever reason, is it still different?

If the grown woman gets pregnant with the boy's child(ren), what happens, is that what you're asking. Assuming she's in jail, I don't know what the support issue is there, but if she gets out and is barred from seeing the kids (she's labelled a risk to children, yadda) then she should pay support, same as the guy. As for ultimate custody if the woman doesn't go to jail, I have no earthly clue, because I'd think the parents of the boy would contest it. If they don't then the boy can't sue for custody, he's a child and if the parents aren't willing, well, he doesn't have much of a choice. I guess the woman's family (her mother, siblings, husband if he's REALLY forgiving and charitable) could take care of them, but that probably wouldn't happen, well any more than the boy's parents taking custody. Worst case senario is the child becoming a ward of the state.

But if the male is considered the victim, what gives? Should the baby suffer from lack of support?

I'm not really sure what you're point is here. If the 14 year old girl got pregnant, there would/could be the same lack of support.

My ultimate point was why is it not rape if a 14 year boy sleeps with a 30 something year old woman, but it is rape if a 14 year old girl sleeps with a 30 something year old man? I haven't seen a really good reason for the distinction yet.

[Conservativesux]

67. Pregnancy? How about she gives the boy an STD like AIDS??..

....What then ?

Presumably a 25 year old women has had numerous sex partners that she may have contacted a sexual disease from.

Its all about protecting young children from the predations of adults and women, as well as men, are sexual predators these days.

[kitkatrose]

69. Uh, I'm on your side here.

I just wanted to know why it's not rape when it's older woman/younger boy, but not the other way around. Risk of pregnancy seemed to be one answer.

[lolly]

92. Read the post

If a 30 year old man impregnates a 15 year old girl, any court in the United States would agree that the 30 year old man is liable for child support. (collecting is another issue--but he would definitely be liable).

What if the male--still most likely to eventually end up making the most money--is the victim? Families of underage boys who have gotten underage girls pregnant have been found liable for support. In this type of case, if the sex was considered consensual but still illegal, would he be liable in any way for support?

Both cases are "cans of worms," but quite different cans of worms.

[LisaL]

44. In any rape case, if someone gets pregnant, that opens up

a whole can of worms. Not just statutory rape.

[pagandem4justice]

50. Yes, kids that age think about sex

All the time, in fact ... I'm a female, but I remember thinking that way at 14 too. It makes it no less wrong that the adult in this situation took advantage of the boy's raging hormones in order to initiate a sexual encounter. That's what, in fact, makes her responsible for her actions, and him not legally responsible for his.

By the way, the large pic of the defendant in your post makes me wonder ... Is all the sympathy for this woman around here due to her "pretty face" and that she's youngish? Let's reverse the situation, shall we? If the victim were a hormonal, emotionally vulnerable and volatile 14 year old girl, and the defendant a good looking male in his 20s or early 30s, would we want to "go easy" on him? Please, Duers (not just truthisfreedom, but all who have taken this tack), rethink the assumptions you have made based on gender and appearance.

I also think it's quite a show of bias to assume that a young man cannot be raped because "he'd like it." That is SO not the point. Coersion is the issue here, and the fact that the adult is responsible for her actions. Period.

:banghead:

[TheWraith]

61. I don't think that anyone is arguing that a young man can't be raped.

I myself have strongly attacked that idea in the past, as it allows genuine predators to go loose on the assumption that any male sexual encounter with a female must have been good for the male.

In this case, though, there's every reason to belive that the boy was a very willing participant. That's an extremely important distinction, and one that needs to be taken into consideration in terms of rhetoric as well as punishment.

Flip it around for a second. As a 14 year old girl, if you had the opportunity to bed a Brad Pitt lookalike, wouldn't you have taken it? I'm guessing most would have. Now compare this to a situation where an adult actually forced sex on a teenager. They're not the same at all. In this case, the adult has still done something wrong, but it's far from rising to the level of REAL rape, or of pedophillia.

[architect359]

72. I agree with what you're saying but

it is still pedophillia. Legally defined, the kid is understood to be a minor and, she, being an acknowledged adult, did have sexual relations with a child. This act is illegal in our society and can is punishable. While I do not know all the details other than what's published in the media, there does not seem to be any coercion other than she (irresponsibly) making a move on him and him taking, I assume, advantage of the situation. Does that make it right? No. She was in a position of trust and authority and responsibility. The thing is we do not have all the facts, we do not have the kid's actual statement in front of us that either indicated that she forced him to do such and such a thing or not. After the first encounter between them, was he still receptive to other approaches? If it was forced and coerced time and again, its a clear case for rape. If he was amicable to each incident, than the rape charge becomes a bit more murkier.

As mentioned by another person, I don't think that she's gotten off scott free either. She's pretty much branded with a scarlet letter and kicked into the general population for anybody to scorn her; her husband has abandoned her. Does she have any friends left? What about her family? I think that public humiliation, especially at this intensity, is pretty daunting. There are many forms of justices in this world. I think that she's definitely paying the price for her indiscretion.

[LisaL]

77. The law sees a difference. Statutory rape and forcible rape.

For statutory rape, it's irrelevant that the boy wasn't forced. He is under age, and it doesn't matter if no physical force was used. According to the law, he can not be willing. As for Brad Pitt look alike and a 14 year old girl, Mr. look alike would end up in jail, regardless of using physical force on the girl.

[kamtsa]

70. Victim?

I am sure all the boys at his school admire and envy him.

[reprobate]

79. It's obvious many here have never been 15 year old boys.

Those of us who have can tell you that at that age the main thing.....hell, the ONLY thing the boy is thinking about is SEX. Many of us have no experience at that age, at least that was true in my generation.

And please remember that at that age the boy is sexually mature, tho not mentally or emotionally mature. Hormones are filling his bloodstream and doing weird things to his mind and body. When presented with an opportunity to be intimate with an attractive older woman ( the secret fantasy of ALL teenage boys!) he will have no choice but to respond. In his future life he will probably look back with fondness for her and the experience.

To force him to go thru the humiliation of a court trial is to punish him for something he had no choice but to do. Is that what we want the American Injustice system to do?

[LisaL]

82. Just cause the kid wants it, doesn't mean it should be done.

If that kid asked you to get him some beer, guess whose a$$ would get in trouble? What if he wanted to drive your car? Would you let him do it? Guess who would be responsible? Should he get credit cards, maybe buy a house?
I don't care if the kid begged her to have sex with him. He is not an adult, he can not do many of the same things adults can do. And law recognizes this, and wants to protect him.

[reprobate]

89. If you expect a 15 year old boy to turn down sex with an attractive woman,

...you are denying hundreds of thousands of years of evolution. To a boy of that age, there is no decision to make, his hormones are in control, not his upper brain. If you think otherwise, or expect him to act otherwise, you are deluding yourself.

[LisaL]

90. I would no expect him to turn down the sex. But I would also not expect

him to turn down an alcoholic beverage. Doesn't mean either should be given to him. The teacher, as an adult, should know a lot better. And that is why she should face more trouble than a slap on the wrist she was getting thus far.

[High Plains]

81. This is ridiculous.

Lower the age of consent to 14 or 15.

Fire the teacher for inappropriate behavior.

The end.

[LisaL]

83. Maybe we should make the age of consent to zero. Just to make

you happy, and protect anyone for any possible misbehavior. And of course, get the attractive offenders like Ms. Lafave off for any possible reason.

[High Plains]

84. Or maybe we could make it 35 just to make you happy.

Let's get real: Whether you like it or not, teenagers have sex. They are past puberty (in general). People in their 20s and 30s who like to have sex with teenagers should be scolded or ostracized, but not criminalized.

And I don't think an ugly guy who has sex with a teenager needs to go to prison anymore than what's her name.

This society is overcriminalized and making "sex criminals" out of people who sleep with teens is cruel, unnecessary, and a hysterical overreaction.

Ah, the sex puritans.

[olddad56]

88. It takes a special teacher to be willing to tutor the boy .....

in life science after school hours. I wish they had that class when I was 14 , so I wouldn't have gotten is so much trouble for getting caught having sex with my 15 year old girlfriend. Her dad was pissed, but we were just experimenting and things got out of hand. Sure wish I would have had a person with more experience, even though she was more experienced than I was.

[LisaL]

91. Well, she should be just as happy to tutor other inmates,

if she actually gets prison time.

[Danieljay]

93. And check out this little (double standard) tune from Garth Brooks...

Switch the gender around and and insert "teenage girl" and "lonely Widower Man". He would be considered a child molester or a pervert and just might end up on the sexual predator registry. We have a major double standard going on here.


I went to work for her that summer
A teenage kid so far from home
She was a lonely widow woman
Hell-bent to make it on her own
We were a thousand miles from nowhere
Wheat fields as far as I could see
Both needing something from each other
Not knowing yet what that might be.

’til she came to me one evening
Hot cup of coffee and a smile
In a dress that I was certain
She hadn’t worn in quite a while
There was a difference in her laughter
There was a softness in her eyes
And on the air there was a hunger
Even a boy could recognize.

She had a need to feel the thunder
To chase the lightning from the sky
To watch a storm with all it’s wonder
Written in her lover’s eyes
She had to ride the heat of passion
Like a comet burning bright
Rushing headlong in the wind
Now where only dreams have been
Burning both ends of the night.

That summer wind was all around me
Nothing between us but the night
When I told her that I’d never
She softly whispered that’s alright
And then I watched her hands of leather
Turn to velvet in a touch
There’s never been a summer
When I have ever learned so much.

We had a need to feel the thunder
To chase the lightning from the sky
To watch a storm with all it’s wonder
Written in her lover’s eyes
She had to ride the heat of passion
Like a comet burning bright
Rushing headlong in the wind
Now where only dreams have been
Burning both ends of the night.

I often think about that summer
The sweat, the moonlight and the lace
And I have rarely held another
When I haven’t seen her face
And every time I pass a wheat field
And watch it dancing with the wind
Although I know it isn’t real
I swear inside I feel
Her hungry arms again.

She had a need to feel the thunder
To chase the lightning from the sky
To watch a storm with all it’s wonder
Written in her lover’s eyes
She had to ride the heat of passion
Like a comet burning bright
Rushing headlong in the wind
Now where only dreams have been
Burning both ends of the night.

Rushing in long in the wind
Now where only dreams have been
Burnin’ both ends of the night

[666]

94. A Different Perspective

When I was a sixteen-year-old male fifty years ago, a twenty-eight year old woman became my sexual partner and mentor. She helped me learn about myself and she taught me how to relate to women generally and sexually.

After a half-century of experience upon which to base an opinion regarding her actions and our relationship, I see absolutely nothing wrong in what she / we did and nothing but positive effects from my experience with her.

Legally, perhaps she would be regarded as a criminal; however, I could never be convinced that her actions constituted a crime. If I had been called upon to testify against her I would have gone to jail rather than do so – and would now do exactly the same.

I do not generalize from my experience even to vaguely similar situations because each individual and each situation is different. Perhaps the law (and we citizens) should acknowledge these differences.

“Either / or”, “all or nothing”, “black or white” thinking seems simplistic in all matters – including the case of Debra Lafave.