EU embarrassed as poll labels Israel world's biggest threat

[baldguy]

snip

BRUSSELS (AFP) - The European Union (news - web sites) scrambled to contain the fallout from a public opinion poll that -- to Israel's fury -- labelled the Jewish state the biggest threat to world peace.

The United States was just behind Israel in the global danger league, in joint second place with North Korea (news - web sites) and Iran, according to the "Eurobarometer" poll requested by the European Commission (news - web sites).

more

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20031103/wl_mideast_afp/eu_poll_israel_031103172948

My question is: Why isn't the headline read "EU embarrassed as poll labels threat from US equal to N Korea and Iran"?

[madrchsod]

1. dam bush can`t do anything right

i mean why can`t we be number one? we`ve got to try harder....

[jmcgowanjm]

2. Are we talkin' Old or New Europe here n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

3. A good bit of irony here

'Commission spokesman Gerassimos Thomas was repeatedly asked why the Palestinian territories were not included, while for example the survey asked Europeans about the threat from Somalia. "It is not a country," he replied when pressed over the Palestinians.'

But that's the official Israeli line, isn't it?

But as a European citizen, I find the following very patronizing:
'"We are not only sad but outraged. Not at European citizens, but at those who are responsible for forming public opinion", the embassy added.'

I'm responsible for forming my own opinion, thank you very much. And what I consider is the actions of governments. Maybe it's the fact that Israel has weapons of mass destruction, but refuses to sign any treaties about them? Or consistently has no compunction about killing innocents during extra-judicial killings?

[RuB]

4. So countries that actively defend their people from terrorist attack

are considered a threat to world peace? LOL! Now I would agree the United States because of the idiot warmonger piece of dogcrap son of a skank Bushie has made the United States deserving of that disdain because we attacked Iraq with no justification. Hopefully after the moran is sent packing back to Crawford Tx we'll regain our good standing in the world again.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

5. IMHO, Sharon doesn't rank any higher than the Chimp.

[wellst0nev0ter]

6. Newsflash, Israel Attacked Syria Without Any Real Provocation

And since the legitimacy of their attack was inconclusive, I would say Israel done its share of stirring the pot of unrest.

The only quibble I have is that I don't believe Israel to be a bigger warmongerer than this country.

[Muddleoftheroad]

12. Provocation?

How much do they need? Israel has been at war with Syria for 55 years. Syria continues to back terror groups that attack Israel, clearly a cause for a military response.

[wellst0nev0ter]

23. Actually, According to Historians, Israel's Problems With Syria

Are clearly the Israelis' fault. Before the 67 war, the way the Israelis violated the stipulations relating to the DMZ zones was brazen and profligate. The veritable theft of the Golan Heights as the result of that war doesn't do much for Israel's innnocence either.

In any case, the past is past, and the Israeli strike was foolhardy and seriously risked another flareup, even when it's not clear that there was any net gain in the decrease of terrorism. I wouldn't be surprised if it provokes more terrorism. A loose cannon like Israel is never good for world peace.

[Muddleoftheroad]

40. No peace

Syria and Israel have never settled 1948 and Syria to this day supports terror attacks against Israel.

As for the attack against Syria, let me understand you. It's OK for Syria to sponsor terror and back attacks against Israel, it's just not OK for Israel to strike back?

[Paschall]

36. So does Saudi Arabia

It also donates money to families of Palestinian suicide bombers. Ready to take on the Wahhabis on their own territory? With all the arms we've sold them since Gulf War I?

[Muddleoftheroad]

41. Syria is closer

But both are the enemies of Israel and, frankly, ours as well.

[Darranar]

8. Defending themselves from terrorist attacks?

I think Sharon goes a lot further then that...

[leesa]

22. Israel is a rogue nation who threatens everyone in the ME

Israel has no oil and would dearly like to take the oil of her neighbors just like she stole the land of the Palestinians. Israel has over two hundred nukes aimed at her neighbors. She is most certainly a threat to world peace, just as the US is. Terrorism is merely a response to the activities of countries like the US and Israel. We steal resources and land and murder other people's citizenry without a care in the world and then cry 'TERRORISM' when they react. They make a sucker out of ordinary citizens in their country (US and Israel) with the scam of 'terrorists' when they are creating them. It's the same scam used with the perils of communism used to steal resources and arms in the 50's through the 80's.

I'll bet the reality was that the fall of Russia was a real bummer to conservative warmongers and war profiteers because they were forced to think up a new bogieman. The bogus 'War on Drugs' didn't work very well, so they hit on 'TERRORISM', the new bogieman! The Communism scam gave them a great ride while it lasted though! They made bazillions of dollars and got a foorthold around the world.

They CONNED you and are conning you still.

[RapidCreek]

31. It probably has something to do with them

being in violation of 69 UN Security Council Resolutions, not counting the 32 additional violations the US vetoed......more violations than any other nation on the planet, if I recall correctly. Most folks consider a nation that possesses nuclear weapons and the distinction of 57 more resolution violations than Iraq, to be a threat to world peace. Oh yea....sorry, I forgot...the UN is irrelevant unless it serves your needs.....then you can use the breaking of UN resolutions as a rational to invade sovereign nations....even when the UN offers no such remedy.....oops that's right their irrelavent....Oh I am soooo confused.

RC

[iam]

46. Israel

is defending the occupiers of palestinian land. Is it a terrorist attack if you kill a soldier occupying your territory? No. Is it right to blow up a bus full of civilians? Yes, if your defending yourself. Was it right for the US to incinerate Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki? Yes. Because we were defending ourselves just as the palestinians are defending themselves from Israeli occupation.
Israel MUST return to the pre-1967 borders in order for this insane conservatism to stop. They will not do it because conservative religionists would murder sharon just like they murdered Rabin. It would mean civil war if the Israeli gov't forced the 200,000 settelers off the occupied territories.

[Walt Starr]

7. Well, the EU didn't quite get it right

I'd say Isarael is very close to, but still just behind the U.S. in the "threat to world peace" department.

I'd still put them light years ahead of North Korea and Iran, though.

[diamond14]

9. USA war ON IRAQ was fueled and forced by Israel....many EU

people understand that...and until USA faces the threat from Israel (inflamed by the unacceptable amount of arms and weapons given to Israel with American taxpayers money), there will be no peace in the Middle East...

there was a time when Israel evoked a lot of sympathy from the World, but now, much like America, Israel has brought about it's own horror....

[Darranar]

10. No it wasn't...

it was oil, not Israel, which drove it.

[diamond14]

11. explain your theory to the EU....Americans are getting really tired

too...

the reality is that many people are now turning against Israel...and Israel bought that upon itself...

[Muddleoftheroad]

13. Not turning

Europe has never been a bastion of tolerance for the Jewish people. Not in the old days when pogrom and the Inquisition sent hundreds of thousands to their deaths. Not during the Holocaust when most nations in Europe helped send their Jews off to die. And not now when anti-Semitism is on the rise right in the heart of the EU.

So, they aren't happy with Israel? Big damn surprise.

As for America, we are NOT turning against Israel.

[diamond14]

14. this pro-bush* stance is sick...we'll see during the next election

cycle...bush* big pro-Israel arms dealing is not wanted by most Americans...some are already realizing that $10 Billion a year to Israel is way too much, that these arm sales must be cut...

or did you forget that bush* grandfather, prescott, actually funded hitler's holocaust, and personally supervised Jewish slave labor at Auswitz??? and bush* has refused to pay back his inherited blood money as reparations....seems rather odd that any Jewish person would support the shrub...bush* will throw the Jews in Israel away in a second, just like his grandpa did...

[Muddleoftheroad]

15. Pro-Bush?

Nope. Pro-Israel.

[RapidCreek]

34. It's one and the same.

RC

[Muddleoftheroad]

42. In your world perhaps

Out here where we all live, it's not the same to support Israel. In fact I support Israel and mock * almost daily.

[Paschall]

27. Pardon me, but...

...what was the United States doing to save Jews during the Inquisition?

[Classical_Liberal]

30. Well there was no US during the inquisition

so I am not sure that is fair. On the other hand Europe's reaction to Israel has little to do with the antisemitism of the past. That is a sure thing as well. They did that back when they were uneducated and more religious, and the religions were more extreme.

[Paschall]

35. That was kind of my point

Muddle likes to slam "European anti-Semitism" and pulls out examples such as the Inquisition, which would more rightly be called "Christian (or Catholic)" anti-Semitism, since anti-Semitism at that period was almost exclusively limited to the world populated by Christians, ie Europe. Just a geographical accident, not a "Continental disease."

And of course he overlooks the German-American Bund, the Silver Shirts, and the more recent Aryan Nation.

Thanks to history, America escapes Muddle's ire because it came into being during the Enlightenment, when human rights and the principle of religious tolerance were expounded in Europe. America was built on those Enlightenment (European) principles. The purity of America's history of religious tolerance is just a historical accident, and not indicative of a specifically American virtue.

But it is perhaps not a coincidence that France, the birthplace of the Enlightenment, is today the home of Europe's largest Jewish population--even though Vichy committed many crimes against Jews during WWII, as I'm sure Muddle will remind us if given the opportunity.

Is there any particular reason to doubt that, if American culture were 3000 years old, it too would have committed great atrocities like the Inquisition? (Oops, we already have done a few things like it haven't we?)

Of course, the truth of the matter is that the EU gets slammed as anti-Semite primarily because it has long supported a two-state solution to the Palestinian problem and more recently provided money to the Palestinians, to replace tax revenus which Israel owed them and was withholding.

[Muddleoftheroad]

45. Europe

You are too quick to give Europe a pass and blame its past actions on religion. Quick question, name the continent of the Inquisition and the Holocaust.

As for America, you actually make part of my point. America DOES NOT have the same history of anti-Semitism. OK, so we luck out because of our age, but that also means it's not ingrained in our culture like it is there.

As for France, people keep using it as an example, but the French Jewish population would be a lot larger if the French hadn't helped the Germans kill so many French Jews. You can't just blame it on Vichy. Vichy was France. In addition, the rising tide of anti-Semitism in that nation may well cause a substantial decline in the Jewish population there.

No, the truth of the matter is two-fold:

* Europe never had must use for Jews and tended to kill them when they felt like it. Now, on some level, they feel it is OK for Arabs to do the same.
* Europe needs oil just like other nations and relies heavily on the Arab world to get it.

[Paschall]

47. I beg your pardon?

1) Anti-Semitism is "ingrained" in European culture? WTF?!?

2) Vichy was not the French Republic; it was officially known as the "French State," and treacherously annulled the Constitution of the Republic. Leaders of the Vichy government were tried and executed or imprisoned for their crimes by the courts of the Republic after it was restored.

3) An estimated 80,000 French Jews were exterminated during WWII with the aid of the Vichy government. Eighty thousand lives are indeed a lot; that was 23% of the French Jewish population. But in comparison, 90% of Polish Jews, 87% of Dutch Jews, and 85% of Greek Jews were exterminated. In other words, among the occupied countries where anti-Jewish statutes were instigated, France (the French) saved more of its Jews than any other.

Europe never had must use for Jews and tended to kill them when they felt like it. Now, on some level, they feel it is OK for Arabs to do the same.
Those are fighting words, my man. You'd better be prepared to defend this slander!

[diamond14]

49. what a crock...nuclear power runs France, water power runs Austria

many Americans are tired of paying for Israel....with OUR taxes....and that is the bottom line...


while you are screaming your usual attacks of anti-semitism, notice here who actually runs America's foreign policy...Americans are beginning to understand and Israel has destroyed any more 'sympathy' from Americans over the holocaust, which America did not cause or participate in (except for a few convicted traitors, like bush* grandpa, bush* family loved by Jews everywhere for some strange reason), and American soldiers liberated Jews in concentration camps...after 50 years of helping Israel with OUR taxes, what do we get for it...a country that slaps us in the face, and constant screaming of 'anti-semitism'...$10 Billion a year from American taxpayers for Israel to buy WMD/weapons/bulldozers is getting real old...

American Empire Builders -the neocons
push on each picture to read a little biography....
http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/index.html

-snips from "Neocon 101"

Most neocons share unwavering support for Israel, which they see as crucial to US military sufficiency in a volatile region. They also see Israel as a key outpost of democracy in a region ruled by despots. Believing that authoritarianism and theocracy have allowed anti-Americanism to flourish in the Middle East, neocons advocate the democratic transformation of the region, starting with Iraq. They also believe the US is unnecessarily hampered by multilateral institutions, which they do not trust to effectively neutralize threats to global security.

What are the roots of neoconservative beliefs?

The original neocons were a small group of mostly Jewish liberal intellectuals who, in the 1960s and 70s, grew disenchanted with what they saw as the American left's social excesses and reluctance to spend adequately on defense

[Muddleoftheroad]

43. Europe has always had anti-Semitism

Perhaps it's religion, perhaps not. But to say they are "turning" ignores hundreds or thousands of years of history.

[Voltaire99]

29. Too simplistic

You're deluding yourself if you think America is "for" Israel, regardless of its human rights violations - that dubious honor belongs to our elected officials and defense contractors.

Polls show that Americans regard Palestinians and Israelies on equal terms, with sympathy and criticism for both sides. This is remarkable, in fact, given the endless villification of Arabs in our media and by our leaders. You might put such a result down to anti-Semitism; and who knows, some statistically marginal number of Americans might be motivated by anti-Semitism in sympathizing with Palestinians.

It's likelier, however, that Americans are simply able to judge the facts on the ground for themselves.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Darranar]

17. I don't disagree...

but Israel's right-wing government and the neocons are allies because their interests match and their views of a cowed Middle East are similar.

[Flying_Pig]

24. Bull. Israel was every bit as much of the reason for the Iraq action as

oil was. Why do you so consistently deny this, despite the fact there is a huge body of irefutable evidence indicating otherwise? Sharon, vis a vis his friends in PNAC, pushed for, and lobbied furiously for the Iraq invasion, as they are now pushing for in Syria and Iran. Get real.

As far as the EU poll goes, I would put the U.S. first, and Israel second. No two other countries are bigger threats to world peace.

[RapidCreek]

32. No it wasn't oil...it was commerce....generated by oil industry profits.

RC

[rman]

38. many oil pipelines lead to Israel

-

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Wwagsthedog]

18. Seems to me that the EU handed out mirrors.

When they looked into them, the Israelis and the USA didn't like what they saw.

[Monte Carlo]

19. Should reactionary extremists get a pass because they're Jewish?

I read that once on bartcop, and it stuck with me.

Sharon and his cabal are not just any government of Israel. His actions have done nothing other than promise years of increasing hate and suffering in Israel and Palestine. We need less 25' walls in this life, not more.

[pschoeb]

20. Poll was poorly conceived

I'm sorry if this is repeating because I didn't have time to read all posts.

In this poll you could only choose from 15 countries, also you could choose as many from the 15 as you wanted.

The question was not if the countries were the biggest threat, merely that they were a threat. here is the question "INSERT COUNTRY does not present a threat to world peace". So it wasn't ranked as how big a threat, just as a threat. Since you could select as many of the 15 as you wanted, you might choose Israel among several other, but really think Israel is less of a threat(but still a threat) to peace than say Iran. So the results really could be summed up as 59% percieve Israel as some kind of threat to world peace.

Also listed as pretty high threats, were Afghanistan and Iraq, it's obvious these countries are not thought to be big threats in themselves, but their situations are considered threats to peace. This is probably the same for Israel. It goes without saying that as long as the I/P conflict continues on it's violent course that there is no world peace, so who is suprised?

An interesting thing on this poll is the results on the US. Many have mentionaed that they thought the EU would/should rank the US a greater threat.

In a way they did, if you notice two of the 15 countries listed are countries occupied by the US, Afghanistan and Iraq, they also ranked very high on percentage chosen as a threat. It's quite conceivable that people voted for these two choices instead of the US directly, depending where they felt the main problem was.

The poll results don't tell us all we would like to know(like what percantage who chose the US also chose Iraq or Afghanistan), but we can make and educated guess by looking at Greece, who voted 88% that the US was a threat, but voted 27% that Iraq was a threat and 23% that Afghanistan was a threat. It seems clear, that if they chose the US, then they didn't choose either of the US occupied countries, and probably vice versa. If Iraq and Afghansiatan had not been listed I would assume that the US would have scored a much higher percentage, because people wouldn't be able to make a distinction.

The same could be true with Israel, since there was no choice to vote on West Bank and Gaza, anyone who thought the I/P situation important could only vote for Israel.

Another very important point, is that depsite asking for an answer that connoted degrees of threat, the result are given as yes or no only.

The allowed responses for the survey question were

Yes, absolutely
Yes, rather
No, rather not
No, absolutely
No Response/Don't know

We only see the results of Yes or No, without the shades of Yes or No.

This original story was a leaked poll result, and no one had seen all the data yet as this was an unpublished EU commision poll. It supposed to be published today(monday).

Here is a link to what I think is the full report
http://europa.eu.int/comm/public_opinion/flash/fl151_iraq_full_report.pdf
but so far there hasn't been a release of the raw data, which might be more interesting.

Patrick Schoeb

[aquart]

21. Because the US IS a legitimate threat.

But for teeny tiny terribly miniscule Israel to be the biggest world threat is just embarrassing to the larger, more populated, better armed nations of the world. Humiliating, in fact.

Why, it's that David and Goliath thing all over again.

[Flying_Pig]

25. Here you are with your disingenuous b.s. again.

"Teeny tiny" my ass. Supported over the years with hundreds of billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars, Israel has one of the more formidable militaries in the world, not to mention, it bristles with around 400 nuclear weapons. Spare me your "teeny tiny" crap. You fool no one.

[Paschall]

26. Israel is the world's fourth largest exporter of arms

Yet it refuses to make a full disclosure of its own weaponry.

I'd say just on those two counts--arms proliferation and opacity--, it represents a real threat to world peace.

[lostnfound]

28. Should it read "Israel embarassed as poll labels Israel biggest threat"?

Similar to the way Bush disdains public 'focus groups' outraged at his war policies, world opinion seems to count for nothing in this decade.

[rman]

37. no: EU parliament does not represent Europeans

The parliament hastened to distance itself from the opinion of the European people wrt their opinion of Israel.
Of course Israel isn't happy with this opinion either.
Now lets see how quick they are to play the anti-semitism card.

[diamond14]

39. Empire Builders: America's neocons & their pro-Israel agenda

neocon 101


-snips-

Most neocons share unwavering support for Israel, which they see as crucial to US military sufficiency in a volatile region. They also see Israel as a key outpost of democracy in a region ruled by despots. Believing that authoritarianism and theocracy have allowed anti-Americanism to flourish in the Middle East, neocons advocate the democratic transformation of the region, starting with Iraq. They also believe the US is unnecessarily hampered by multilateral institutions, which they do not trust to effectively neutralize threats to global security.

What are the roots of neoconservative beliefs?

The original neocons were a small group of mostly Jewish liberal intellectuals who, in the 1960s and 70s, grew disenchanted with what they saw as the American left's social excesses and reluctance to spend adequately on defense. Many of these neocons worked in the 1970s for Democratic Senator Henry "Scoop" Jackson, a staunch anti-communist. By the 1980s, most neocons had become Republicans, finding in President Ronald Reagan an avenue for their aggressive approach of confronting the Soviet Union with bold rhetoric and steep hikes in military spending. After the Soviet Union's fall, the neocons decried what they saw as American complacency. In the 1990s, they warned of the dangers of reducing both America's defense spending and its role in the world.

Unlike their predecessors, most younger neocons never experienced being left of center. They've always been "Reagan" Republicans.




push on each photo to learn about background, and organizations of Key Figures running America's policy....
http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/index.html

[OldEurope]

44. Hey, the question was:

Is Israel a threat to peace or not. Europeans did NOT say, Israel is the greatest threat! It was just a majority saying, Israel is a threat. So I think there is a misinterpretation of this poll result.
Every nation who has the means and the will to kill civilians is a threat to peace. So is a nation that rises walls around a part of its inhabitants, and kills persons without trial ignoring any damage this bombing does to innocent people.
On the other side, I could not find out, wether there was also a question like "Is the Palestinian people or administration or is Arafat a threat to the world peace?" I really hope that Europeans had also answered YES.

[rdub]

48. "Israel embarrassed as EU poll labels them world's biggest threat"

"Israel embarrassed as EU poll labels them world's biggest threat"

would seem more fitting.

-Deckard