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Silvermint Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:30 AM
Original message
President Bush today accepted responsibility for decision to go to war CNN
Edited on Wed Dec-14-05 12:26 PM by Silvermint
"President Bush today accepted responsibility for decision to go to war against Iraq based on faulty intelligence."

It's breaking news on CNN at the moment, so there's no link - sorry.

Anyone else find it weird that we're treating this like news, by the way? Since the truth has been so evident for so long, my guess is that the headline should more accurately read: "President Bush today decided to accept reality."

Either way, it's breaking news... heh...

**EDIT #1**

It's now been folded into the headline article: "Bush lauds upcoming Iraqi election"

Link: http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/14/bush.iraq/index.html

Quote: "It is true that much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong. As president I am responsible for the decision to go into Iraq."

**EDIT #2***

Okay, now they've folded the *other* article (see: edit #1) into this one. This one is also now the main headline article on CNN.

New Link: http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/14/bush.iraq/index.html

Revised headline: "Bush: 'I am responsible'"

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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. CNN.com >> President Bush today accepted responsibility for decision to go
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Damn Straight, chimpy, you
are responsible and that's a BIG FUCKING "DUH!"!
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MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
47. There is a poll on that page, too.
Have President Bush's four recent speeches on Iraq changed your views about the war?
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Silvermint Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. I think
his strategy with those repeated speeches might be to simply bore us into not caring about the war anymore...
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MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. That's an interesting point.
Maybe he thinks we are so tired of listening he can say all kinds of things now, like taking "responsibility" for going to war. Now, if he would just own up to the Pentagon's Office of Special Spin, that might get our attention.

Welcome to DU, Silvermint!
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. How do we parth this? Is Bush admitting he knew the intel was faulty?
This is an example of how American broadcast news is deficient. Their use of language would fail Third Grade standards of diction.

Yes, it is weird. Consistently, which is normal.:grr:
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Silvermint Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Excerpt:
Bush also accepted responsibility for invading Iraq based on faulty intelligence.

"It is true that much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong. As president I am responsible for the decision to go into Iraq," Bush said. "And I'm also responsible for fixing what went wrong by reforming our intelligence capabilities. And we're doing just that."

***

You're right, I'm not sure how we're supposed to read this. The "turned out to be wrong" suggests that he's not admitting that he knew all along that it was faulty, no. But then again, we all knew before the invasion even occured that the Yellow Cake documents were forged, so either he's lying through his teeth (always a safe assumption) our I have better intelligence-gathering capabilities than does our president (also... always a safe assumption).

Either way, my guess is that he's finally figuring out that he's lost the country's support for this illegal war, so his strategy is to... I don't know... emphasize his role in its illegality? You'd think that mea culpas usually work with politicians (Clinton), but as the Katrina confession shows, Bush's rare acceptances of responsibility don't work to boost the polls because he never adds an "I'm sorry" to the mix. He'll occasionally now admit mistakes, but those mistakes don't require apologies. Which he would know, if Karl Rove weren't currently cowering in a corner waiting to be indicted...
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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
73. Nothing new here. He's blaming the CIA as always.
He and Cheney did an end-run around the CIA and made up their own BS, with the help of OSP. Now he wants to "reform" the organization he ignored and then gutted. Same old BS as ever.
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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. No. He's saying he made the decision to go to war,
and then later on we found out some of the info was wrong. No responsibility, nothing new.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
50. He is NOT saying he/WH that they KNEW intel was wrong before
going to war.
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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #50
60. Yes exactly. It's the same thing he's always said.
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
71. He says, it's my responsibility to find out who screwed up.
It's just the "I'm the captain of the ship and I'm responsible for the fuckups of my underlings no matter how smart and good I am, personally." It's accepting that he is president and that there was no WMD. No more than that. In other words, Bush only admits what is glaringly, undeniably evident, and nothing more. It's Nixon's technique of modified limited hang out, as Haldeman put it.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #71
79. Translation: He means "It's my responsibility to figure out
who to blame." What else does the asshole EVER mean?
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #79
91. And the funny thing is, what happens to the people "to blame"?
Tenet got a medal, Brownie gets the same salary with less responsibility....Bush isn't really interested in doing anything.
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Silvermint Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #91
105. Reminds me of the joke from the Daily Show
"What are the chances that the Bush administration will actually hold anyone accountable for the Katrina response and fire them?"

"Not likely, Jon. In fact, those officials responsible will probably just be dipped in bronze and presented to other officials as awards."
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
111. blah blah blah
Edited on Thu Dec-15-05 02:26 PM by loyalsister
The more it sounds like "blah" the more effective it is for them. This has been cautious propagandistic speech writing all down the line.
Meaningless language that sounds like it could mean something important is exactly what they are shooting for.
Kerry didn't get away with it because he never mixes in ordinary speech.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
4. Ok... Now Step Down!
Asshole!
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
5. Bush is just claiming responsibility without taking responsibility. He
believes that he has no downside for claiming responsibility. In his mind, everyone loves him and thinks he is a genius! The congress is in his pocket, so he doesn't even have to worry about impeachment. Asshole.

:bounce:
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KeepItReal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
100. He's saying "My bad" without any of that contrition stuff
Why bother?

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RobertSeattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
6. In other news
Napoleon/Hitler says attacks on Russia still justified
Hirohito says says attacking Pearl Harbor "Right Decision"
Nixon says he'd still record Oval Office conversations
Custer says he'd still go into Little Bighorn



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Silvermint Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. HAH!
=)
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RobertSeattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. And...
Lincoln says going to Theater was the right thing to do.
Kennedy still likes convertible limousines.
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Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #6
24. Very very good.
"I'm just a soul whose intentions are good, Oh lord please don't make me be misunderstood"
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RobertSeattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #24
48. Cindy Lauper does a great rendtion of the song
Me thinks better than the original.
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #48
70. yes -- if there were any justice in the world ...
... that bird would have pooped on Bush, and not her!

http://www.anecdotage.com/index.php?aid=19867
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
9. and yet....9-11...saddam...9-11 saddam..terra-ists...and
Edited on Wed Dec-14-05 11:46 AM by SoCalDem
in case anyone forgot....9-11 :puke:
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Silvermint Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. Oh...
Wait, "terrasts" refers to terrorists? Crap. Based on his inability to grasp the concept of the sounds of human speech, I've actually been under the impression that we've been at war with the tourists for all these years... my bad...
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mike6640 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #18
103. hold on a sec
I thought he was talking about tourists....?
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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
10. He is NOT taking responsibility for the disinfo.
He is saying that he made the decision to go to war and it "turned out" (aka, later) "much" of the info was wrong. Again, NO RESPONSIBILITY is being taken here. Same old same old.+
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anotherdrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
11. huh? this makes no sense, who else would have been responsible?
like, duh...
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
12. So??? He also said he'd do it again!
Bastard!
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Peachhead22 Donating Member (798 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
14. He "accepted responsibility"?
OK, so now what? Is he gonna resign? I wish. Is he going to take a pay cut? Yeah, right. Is he at least going to fire anyone? Don't hold your breath.

I wish a reporter would ask "Mr. President, you've said you 'accept resposibility'. In your words just what does that mean?"

It's the same crap he pulled after Katrina. He said "I take responsibility" and the networks nearly wet their pants. "Accepting resposiblity" for a monumental ****-up involves more than saying the words "I accept responsibility".
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
110. Don't you wish this administration would initiate sepku....
the Japanese tradition of falling on the sword when committing a grievous error. Well, it was a thought.
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yostsghost Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
16. It doesn't matter :(
Edited on Wed Dec-14-05 11:51 AM by yostsghost
The majority of Americans are drooling, brain dead droans with little or no attention span. Hell, New Orleans is a fucking war zone still and nothing is being done about it, because the "liberal media" are so busy covering these worthless elections in Iraq. We have problems like election fraud and what is the media doing? Turning the execution of a man into a 3 ring circus. George Bush could admit to everything he has done and people would reprogramed the next day and forget all about it.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
17. Makes Him Look Weak...Keep Spinning That
The whole repug party is weak..

•Weak on national security
•Weak on diplomacy
•Weak on terrorism
•Weak on the economy
•Weak on the environment
•Weak on education
•Weak on integrity, honesty, and all the rest
•Weak and getting weaker in the polls, despite the LIES of CNN, FAUX & the rest
•Weak on jobs
•WEAK, WEAK, WEAK!!

P.S. I heard or read this somewhere fairly recently. Not sure where.
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
19. You mean rushed to war
Not just go to war but rushed at full throttle. No time to check whether intelligence sources were valid or credible. War was all they preached and war was what they got and guess what it was all trumped up....
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Rambis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
20. I take full responsibility for the Holocaust-
this doesn't mean shit it is just lip service! Oops I forgot the rethugs spent 79 million investigating lip service.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
21. More of Bush's self-gratifying egoism
Notice how many times this fuckwit says "I."

"I" this. "I" that. It's all about him, always. What a despicable dick.
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
22. Really...
Shouldn't he have waited for the requisite Friday news dump for this revelation?
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Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
23. Bush admits he was mislead - the war is someone else's fault.
And those of us who were not fooled are Traitors?

Ahhh "My Pet Goat" how appropriate, that he was reading it on 9/11.
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Silvermint Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Wait a second!
Edited on Wed Dec-14-05 12:03 PM by Silvermint
All Bush is doing is admitting that he was misled... hmmm... and didn't he say that god told him to invade Iraq? Hmmm... is he saying that god is fallible? I really hope he's targeted by a massive right-wing "you abort christmas tree fetuses"-style smear campaign...
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shugah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #25
36. "you abort christmas tree fetuses"
:rofl:

welcome to DU!
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Silvermint Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Hehe
Although I'm not new here, it still feels good to be welcomed ;)
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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
46. You're right! Thanks for reminding me
about the """God"" thing. I do recall reading about how Bush said that "God" told him to invade, and like the Good Christian he is, he did.

What happened to that goddamned logic? Stupid clown Bush.
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
26. Setting up Cheney and Rummy to take the heat? They are both disliked
by the public, Bush can play "victim" without accepting responsibility for the lies, he's only responsible for being a "patsy" - played for a fool. If he comes out hard against Cheney, Rummy and whoever else is set to take the heat, he'll look like that strong leader again.

Anyone catch Biden on Charlie Rose yesterday? He was pretty much playing along with that line of thinking - Cheney and Rummy lied, Bush was mislead. :puke:
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Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. Rose is a good compass for picking up the new CON direction.
Kinda sounds like he's got a little bit more going for him than a 'nose for the news'. Charlie is very close to CON central imho.
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #32
82. Yeah, I've heard that before, he's definitely a conservative sort of
guy, but I do tend to enjoy his show. Usually catch it right after Lehrer when I turn in for the night, if I manage to stay awake that long.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
27. Somebody else made me do it
er....Its all Saddam's fault, er, uhm, Cheney thought it would be a good idea...uhm, er, we had no choice, we HAD to do it, I think....uhm er, Freedom Deficit!!!
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
28. It is a ploy.....
to gain trust. If you read further down, he says we went in to remove a brutal dictator and much more. Nowhere is WMD meantioned, our prime motive, or the al Quida training camps.
I may be getting older but the memory is intact. We were promised that the Iraqis would greet us with flowers and the oil would pay for reconstruction costs. Is he going to take blame for the 9 billion in cash that has been missing.
And while he is 'fixing' the Intelligence Agencies....is he going to take care of the leak in the White House that destroyed the career of a very valuable agent and blew a cover business.
I am not buying that horse shit.
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rd_kent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #28
74. I saw that, too.
He totally sidestepped his intial arguments for war. I remember what he said, dammit! I just hope speeches like this dont put the media back asleep.
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MODemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #74
81. I believe the media loves this war for oil and money
What would they do for news if they didn't have this bloody quagmire? Tom Cruise's gift of a sonogram
machine for his girlfried; Brad & Jenna? They are making huge profits because of this war, just like they did when they were reporting non-stop about president Clinton's personal sex life. The media will go to sleep on command from Bushgang.

:smoke: :crazy: :thumbsdown:
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Silvermint Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
29. You know...
I still don't know what to think of the original headline: "President Bush today accepted responsibility for decision to go to war against Iraq based on faulty intelligence."

What does that MEAN?

"A lot o' folks have been saying that the decision to go to war against Iraq was made by Dick Cheney... but no, I accept full responsibility for making that decision..."

Isn't it a default that a president is responsible for, ya know, presidential decisions?
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
30. Big deal, he still doesn't say anything
Edited on Wed Dec-14-05 12:17 PM by Javaman
about how he knew the intell was bad. And yet he still went to war.

AND also says that in light of all things he would haven't changed a thing.

More bullshit. Me thinks the bad polls are getting to him and he's trying to dance as fast as he can so as not to pull down anymore repukes that are going to be running for reelection next year.

He only trots out the "compassionate conservative" bullshit when it's only self serving.

Do you really think he said this crap because he cares about us? bwahahahahaha! that's a good one.

He knows he's a lead wieght and he's trying hard to float again.

Edit: also his timing is amazing isn't it? On the eve of the faux iraqi election.

Let's all get ready for the "look we are so successful in Iraq" bullshit. more purple finger shots, two or three paid iraqi's to smile for the camera, puffed up politicians and Iraqi ex-pats all giving glowing marks to the election, etc.

I'm so sick of all this bullshit.

colossal racist lying failure*.
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MissMillie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
31. He probably figures
that if he claims the responsibility as his, people won't vote against the GOP in the midterms.


We need to work to prove this assumption wrong.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
33. Are you also responsible for the decision to stovepipe info via the OSP?
Hiding 90 percent of the truth is still telling a lie at worst, misleading at best.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
34. There - finally he said it. Guess we don't need to bring that up again.
W-R-O-N-G! The turnip truck might be full, but even those who fall off aren't going to buy this sound bite mea culpa - "Oops, tens of thousands dead, tens of thousands maimed. Sorry about the bad intelligence." He ignored what he wanted when it came to intelligence because God told him to spread democracy. He should be impeached.
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Silvermint Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. What's funny is that
he didn't even say "I'm sorry", so it's more like: "Ooops, tens of thousands dead, tens of thousands maimed. Um... ummm... Deanmurtha is a traitor?"
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #37
112. In ALL my years of watching Dubya,
Edited on Thu Dec-15-05 02:33 PM by AnneD
I have NEVER NEVER EVER seen him apologize or take blame. I was a little bit surprised when I read the thread title, until I parsed the exact phrase, as so many of you did. He really blames faulty intelligence, but never takes full responsibility or truly apologizes. He actually is very clever with the words he chooses. It takes you a while to figure it out, but once you do...it is like a light bulb going on. You are never fooled by what he says again.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
35. You know what's really stupid about his* statement...
He's* the fucking prez. Of course he* has to take responcibility, who else would be responcible???

smoke and mirrors folks.

This is the non-apology apology.

Fuck him*.

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Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
38. George Bush a misleader that can take us to hell but not back.
Guess they just don't make em like they useta.

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Danieljay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
40. BS! The bastard KNEW it was faulty intelligence and went to war anyway!
When he takes responsibility for THAT, I'll be happy.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #40
52. Right ON!!
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
41. "It was the right thing to do, and I take responsibility for it" - Chimpy
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
42. What, Cheney didn't tell him about the Office of Cherrypicking
Edited on Wed Dec-14-05 12:59 PM by redqueen
Intelligence and Bribing People To Say What We Want Them To (Chalabi)?

Oh wait, that's the Office of Special Plans.

Still, chimpy doesn't know what his underlings are doing? Not a very effective leader, is he?
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dapper Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
43. Holy SHIT how blatant!
Edited on Wed Dec-14-05 01:04 PM by dapper
One of the key points was:
"Much pre-war intelligence was wrong -- president accepts responsibility for this and also for reforming intelligence capabilities"

Edited to add: Key words here are "reforming intelligence capabilities"

Does anyone feel this is his push for the PATRIOT ACT???????????

Dap
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Silvermint Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Oh...
... snap.
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
45. The intel just didn't "turn out" to be untrue. He knew it was untrue
when he told everyone about it. He lied! That's what he won't take responsibility for!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
49. he and his like have big heads--
...."We are living through a watershed moment in the story of freedom," Bush said
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Silvermint Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. No...
... sorry Bush, but November 2006 will be a watershed moment in the story of freedom...
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Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
55. Nom and kick
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Silvermint Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Thanks!
It's my first scoop in the LBN forum...

... only took me two years to finally get one, heh!
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Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #56
76. I haven't done one yet either. Too many good threads to be bothered.
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fshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
57. Try this:
to test the weight of a statement, examine the opposite statement. In that case that would be "I am not responsible for going to war". Now, you can easily see the immediate implications of such statement: I don't know what's going on in my administration, someone else is running this administration, I endorse decisions without looking at them, etc... This describes a position untenable and much worse than the original statement. So when you need to speak up, and pressure forces you to, you pick the best option. Bomb's gone off, end of story. The part that's missing, the crucial part indeed is: did this adminstration *knowingly* forged a case for war. That's what the Fitzgerald investigation was aiming at.
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madmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
58. The fact that the media is treating the statement as news is just
indicative of how stupid the public discourse is today and the vapidness of the media. Was the media concerned that Mr. Bush thought other people were responsible for the war with Iraq? Was the media unsure that Mr. Bush was responsible for the war with Iraq until he admitted it in this statement? Are they still skeptical? Are they all fucking idiots?
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
59. Does that mean he's resigning in shame?
woohoo! hot times in my house tonight! Oh, wait, he's just saying that and not actually DOING anything?
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JudyM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
61. By saying "as president" he is responsible subtly makes him look
magnanimous. Poor, poor shrubhead was steamrollered.
As long as he can keep compensating for/deflecting from his own weakness by framing the dems' aversion to war as weakness, he stays on top.
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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
62. Gee, bush is not stupid,
But he has a way of making stupid people feel like they're just as smart as he is...... Taken from the episode...Homecoming......Masters of Horror series on Showtime
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #62
113. Actually that is a talent
Edited on Thu Dec-15-05 02:50 PM by loyalsister
His con is to make people feel like they could own a baseball team or be president, too.
His lack of meaning in his words is intentional. Definitely his lack of expansion is intentional. Don't think for a second this guy doesn't know what he is doing. He has positioned himself as the patsy.
This is a guy who is laughing AT YOU for calling him stupid as he very artfully takes the fall for the Republicans and blames Democrats for this war.
We are headed straight back to that "they had the same intelligence." fight.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
63. This admission, coupled with his "If I knew then what I know now..."
...comment of late should end his regime...Should end...

Just combine the two and think about it: "If I knew about the faulty intelligence then like I am accepting the responsibility of knowing about it now, I'd still do the same thing."

If ever there was a candidate for a padded-cell impeachment...
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
64. Wonder if he's started going to AA?
Apparently they're big on responsibility for your own actions.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #64
87. If you have to ask...
the answer's probably no. And in Bush's case--recovery? That's (unfortunately) laughable. If that was the first step on the road to recovery for him? He's still in Land of Denial. Where he will remain permanently, as 12-step programs can help you learn the techniques that keep people from abusing, but the programs alone can't treat the severe mental health issues a person like Bush has. Recovery from alcohol abuse, maybe, treatment for acute egocentricity--he'd need a shrink for that. Some (more) drugs. Maybe an exorcism.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
65. So it's still someone else's fault - Bush lied. "faulty intel" my ass
He's still blaming others for what he did deliberately and intentionally - He LIED.

He's effectively saying "I take responsibility even though it's really the fault of US intelligence"


Same old shit as usual
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Silvermint Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. You have to admit,
one thing this White House is really great at is flipping open a dictionary to a random page, say the one where the word "responsibility" appears, and doodling aimlessly with a sharpie until they have spawned an entirely unrecognizable but accidentally useful term.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. Oh, it's a whole newspeak alright....
Edited on Wed Dec-14-05 05:34 PM by Solly Mack
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
68. All the more reason to Impeach.
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against all enemies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
69. Democrats shouild demand an inquiry into the Intelligence.
How could he say no now. He's put himself into a box, but only if the Democrats act.
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centristo Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
72. its a small step forward
and I'm glad he said it. Baby steps into reality...baby steps...
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
75. Bush doesn't count.
It's the Pearles, Wolfowitz's, Cheney's, Roves, Kristols, and the rest of the gang members that we want.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
77. So I guess when Cheney & Co were cooking up that faulty evidence,
George WAS out of the loop.

Even if he did know, taking responsibility is still meaningless. It just makes his statements tyrant-level arrogant.

AND, even if he no one in the Bush administration knew it was faulty intelligence we would still have to get rid of them for their immense incompetence. It is our duty to protect our nation, even when the pres' ain't up to the task.

Have you signed an impeachment petition yet?

http://www.votenader.org/get_involved/impeach_view.php

http://elandslide.org/elandslide/petition.cfm?campaign=impeach&refer=home


"The Right to Petition Government

By Elisia Hahnenberg
http://www.learningtogive.org/papers/index.asp?bpid=204

To understand the definition of the concept, right to petition government, one must first understand where this concept originates. The right to petition is one of the fundamental freedoms of all Americans, and is documented in the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
<snip>
Looking at the specific definition of the word petition, as it relates to the freedom of petition and the First Amendment, the word can be used to describe “any nonviolent, legal means of encouraging or disapproving government action, whether directed to the judicial, executive or legislative branch. Lobbying, letter-writing, e-mail campaigns, testifying before tribunals, filing lawsuits, supporting referenda, collecting signatures for ballot initiatives, peaceful protests and picketing: all public articulation of issues, complaints and interests designed to spur government action qualifies under the petition clause…” (Copley First Amendment Center) (1)."


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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
78. CNN poll: Have President Bush's four recent speeches on Iraq...
Have President Bush's four recent speeches on Iraq changed your views about the war?

Yes 10% 11766 votes

No 90% 110324 votes

Total: 122090 votes


Most lopsided poll yet.
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Silvermint Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #78
99. I bet
those 10% who said yes meant it in the "these four speeches convinced me how ungodly stupid the war actually is after all" sort of way... nothing about the poll question requires the changes to be supportive in nature. :)
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
80. won't be surprised if his poll numbers rise
To some Americans, f*cking up this royally is acceptable, as long as some semblance of responsibility is taken.
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
83. It means nothing except aides finally convinced him to say "I take blame
He is just parroting what he's told to in order to win back followers.
It finally got to him that people don't like him not taking responsibility.

Means nothing!
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
84. W is also responsible for every thing he signed into law
;)
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
85. Direct contradiction: "it is true...wrong." and
earlier this week he said that *even with the information he has today*, he would make the same decision to invade Iraq.

Unless I have misunderstood the latter statement, he's saying that, even though the reasons he gave to justify going in proved to have no basis in fact, he would go in anyway. So:
-- what IS the reason for going in?
-- is wrong intelligence simply insignificant (so it didn't affect the decision)? Then why are spending $$$$ on it?

He can't even keep his lies straight.
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On Par Donating Member (912 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
86. Intel Was Wrong, But Saddam Was A Threat To America Doesn't Equate!
Except in Bush's Limited Thinking.

If the Intel was wrong about Saddam, how can Chimpy assert that Saddam was a threat to America? Based on What?

Doesn't anyone in the media ever press this asshole on these absurdities?

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Silvermint Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. I wonder...
Edited on Wed Dec-14-05 08:01 PM by Silvermint
... when Bush is going to admit that the intelligence which led him to think that either A.) Americans or B.) Iraqis are better off for us having invaded in the first place is also mistaken. Logically speaking, it's strange to claim that the results of your intelligence-gathering can be 180 degrees off without at least calling into question all of the other results, the asinine "freedom is on the march" thing included.
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Silvermint Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
89. The reason why...
... I think this admission is important, even if Bush meant it in a PR-ish/flippant way, is that neither he nor Cheney can prance about any longer and claim that Saddam had ties to 9/11 or that Iraq was part of the War on Turrah. I know that I'm imposing logic onto an administration that clearly never uses it, but if the media actually holds them to this confession then the only rationale that the neocons can now cling to is spreading democracy. That is problematic not only for a whole host of philosophical reasons, but also quite simply because the only folks who think that the Iraqis are free because they can cast the occasional ballot are those who read the Iraqi Press (e.g. the Pentagon Press). House of cards, guys... house of cards.
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MellowOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
90. So he's admitting Iraq and 9/11 aren't connected?
Guess he can't use that crap in his speeches anymore.
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Silvermint Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #90
98. Yep,
because we know Bush never engages in hypocracy...
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MadJohnShaft Donating Member (267 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
92. Luckily Paula Zahn's crappy show just straightened me out

It turns out that in fact, Bush is the greatest president ever - and onward they go to the most important story of the evening - stolen human body parts used for transplants. Thanks Paula. BARF.
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
93. Ok...Let's star the "IMPEACHMENT" process!
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
94. that is one seriously deceptive headline
in the same breath as 'taking responsibility', he also blames 'bad intel'. responsibility my foot.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
95. What a relief...the war crimes trial should go much faster
with his cooperation.
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Silvermint Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. HAHAHAHA!
Ooh... priceless!

=)
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
96. Tomorrow he will blame someone else...so what.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
101. But he's blaming his decision on "faulty intelligence" and that's just...
...plain not true. That whole NeoCon crowd KNEW they were falsifying the evidence to influence American public opinion towards invading Iraq. Now that the "plan" has fallen apart, they're desperate to find someone/something to take the fall, and "faulty intelligence" has been chosen.
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
102. Big deal
Does he want a cookie or something? :sarcasm:
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
104. start impeachment proceedings. nt
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BlueInPhilly Donating Member (341 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #104
106. So... is he also taking responsibility
for the:

- 2,000+ dead US soldiers
- thousands of US soldiers maimed and traumatized
- 100,000+ dead Iraqis
- Dangerous destabilization of the Mid East Region
- Ideological division in his own beloved US of A

C'mon, George, you cannot take responsibility for something and not take responsibility for the consequences. :mad:
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
107. I wonder if this has anything to do w/Fitz.
Maybe they've got word that more indictments are coming soon and Bush is trying to distance himself from Cheney, Rove, etc. Hey, I can dream!
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Silvermint Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #107
114. Well,
taking responsibility certainly WOULD distance himself from the likes of Rove, heh!
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
108. George likes to reassure us.
He's forever telling us in speeches that he "understands" things that are obvious to most eight year olds, so he must have felt compelled to let us know that he knows that it was indeed he who pushed the Iraq button.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
109. What's the temperature in hell right now?
I think it must be -20!
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Silvermint Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #109
115. If the media
actually does its job and hammers this issue, then it might go down to -60!
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