Democrats LOSE Kentucky, Mississippi Governorships!!!

[CShine]

I've heard all the lines about how the South is the stronghold of the GOP, about how this was to be expected, about how they were just minor statewide races, but DAMMIT the Democratic Party needs to do better!!!

If you're a Louisiana Democrat, GET OUT AND VOTE ten days from now on SATURDAY NOV. 15TH!!!

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/11/04/elec04.election.govs.wrap/index.html

[farmboxer]

1. Republican Manufactured And Programmed Voting Machines

appear to be the problem. Republicans will allow Democrats to win a few races, but they will win almost all of them!

Our Democratic leaders need to speak out on this voter faud!

[VolcanoJen]

2. Funny, but now Republicans are "speaking out" against BBV.

Isn't it ironic? Don't ya think?

}(

DU LBN Thread: Glitches Prompt GOP Suit Over Fairfax Tabulations

[CShine]

3. NO!!!! This is NOT about..............

..........VOTING MACHINES!!!


This is about the Democratic Party turning out to vote WHEN IT COUNTS!! If we don't do it NOW it will NEVER happen!!

[Roark]

18. Perhaps,

but it is so much easier to blame the voting machines, isn't it?

[user]

28. Yea

and Saddam got a hundred percent of the vote that the idea no matter who its cut the pie they now own the knifes and do the cuttin remember dec 12 2000.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

27. You don't get it, do you? This is ALL about voting machines.

[recidivist]

41. Voting machine reality check.

I have no idea what mix of voting technologies are currently used in Mississippi and Kentucky, but it is surely relevant to note that both states have been Democratic controlled for decades.

If you want to slap on the 'ol tinfoil and indulge in voting machine conspiracy theories, be my guest. But please be kind enough to explain to me why Democratic authorities in Kentucky and Mississippi would rig the elections against themselves.

Don't misunderstand me: I want better ballot security (including proper purging of voter roles and picture IDs at the polls), as well as an auditable tally. But let's keep the conspiracy stuff out of it. Most of the polls have showed the Republicans winning both these races for weeks. Astonishing, isn't it, how "they" rigged the machines to reflect the polling data?

[foo_bar]

90. the myopic conspiracy

My main concern with "BBV" is the residual finger sweat on the screen (even with a resistant coating), but it's unclear if people will follow the herd by touching the greasy smudge, or vote the underdog for sanitary reasons.

I've looked at Diebold's white papers and such, and yes it has more holes than a beta version of Windows, but so do the 80s scantron devices that read ballots (not to mention biased human beings examining chads). If the proverbial person that counts the vote is corrupt, punchcard or scantron or MS Access doesn't make a difference. At least a good hacker can show up an electronic plot, whereas a disappearing box of ballots would need a team of forensic archaeologists to discover.

[recidivist]

91. Exactly.

There seem to be some folks around here who think the solution to vote fraud is paper ballots, marked in pencil. These are, apparently, people who have never seen:

(1) What real, live voters will do to paper ballots given the chance (everything you can imagine, and some you can't); and

(2) What election officials with a mind to cheat can and will do to paper ballots, given the chance.

Most jurisdictions shifted to voting machines early in the last century not to save money or speed results, but to reduce fraud. Obviously one can still cheat with the machines, but it's a bit harder. I don't know what the best technology is. I DO think rigorous purging of the voter rolls and photo id's at the polls are important places to start. I would also take a long, hard look at absentee ballots.

[loudnclear]

35. The sourth was always ruled by "Dixicrats" and Republicans

The myth was that REAL Democrats had a stronghold in the south.

[QC]

56. Always ruled by Republicans? Really?

When I was a child in the 70's, Alabama did not even have a GOP primary. There were not enough of them in the state to justify having one. With very few exceptions, Republicans were country-clubbers and Yankees.

The growth of the GOP in this part of the country is a recent phenomenon, and if we want to do something about it we need to consider the reasons why it happened. Yes, civil rights had a lot to do with it, but simply retreating into the self-congratulatory platitude that the Democrats lost the South due to our brave, uncompromising stand on equality doesn't cut it.

A lot of it has to do with the perception of liberal elitism, a perception given strong support right here in this thread. People are seldom willing to vote for those who hold them in contempt.

[TedsGarage]

79. It works the other way, too.

A lot of Northerners have been turned off by the GOP's Southern conservative bent. Last year, I talked to the Democratic chairman in Lake County, Illinois, which was once so Republican it wouldn't vote for Adlai Stevenson, even though he owned a farm there. It has voted Democratic in the last two presidential elections. "Newt Gingrich was the best friend we ever had," the chair said.

The first presidential election I remember was in 1976. We were living in Michigan. My parents were for favorite son Gerald Ford, a moderate, pro-choice, pro-ERA Republican who would never win the party's nomination today. They haven't voted Republican since.

[TedsGarage]

84. A Solid North

I should add that the North and South have always voted for opposing political factions. It's been that way since Adams and Jefferson, and it'll always be that way. Instead of trying to take back the South, we should shore up our base and create a "Solid North" to counter the "Solid South." If we can do that, by adding New Hampshire and Ohio to the Democratic base, we'll have enough electoral votes to win any election.

[cosmicdot]

113. that was holdover of the anti-Abe Lincoln reconstructionist Repukes

don't'cha think? that Democratic South

Mills Godwin in Virginia - my born and bred state
look I'm a Democrat in the 60s
now, look, I'm a Nixon Republican in the 70s

you're talking about the meltdown period and a bygone era
of major socio-economic transition and upheaval

Politics of exclusion, bigotry, greed defined the transition.

[jiacinto]

86. You have no proof to show that those races were lost to fraud

Please stop the conspiracy theories--it only serves to discredit the adults working on this issue.

[GalleryGod]

4. I'm sure Haley was doing his "Nigrah,nigrah,nigrah..shit"

All over the BACK roads and hollers of MississipPEAH!

"OH! I wish I wuz in Dee Land of Cot-ton OLD TIMES dere are NOT forgotten!!"

Folks-It's ANOTHER FRIGGIN' Country! Why don't we LET them secede! See how they do?:grouphug:

[tlb]

10. I saw no reports of Barbour saying "Nigrah,nigrah,nigrah..shit"

Although I admit I never followed this race very closely. Still, one would think that between the press and the democrats in the state, had it been said we probably would have heard of it.

But then, what do I know. I'm not the one trying to discard a third of the nation for the crime of voting for a man I wouldn't have voted for, had I been eligible to vote in that election in the first place.

Do you think that just MAYBE a smug and hateful attitude towards the south might be part of the problem. Zell Miller warned this was a big cause for the party being unpopular down there.

But I forgot, we don't believe anything Miller says regardless. So ok, let's close our eyes and ears and say it's all cause Barbour said "nigrah,nigrah,nigrah..shit".

Oh, and let's blame Diebold and Katherine Harris too, just to touch all bases.

[GOPFighter]

29. Smug and Hateful

Yeah, we do tend to act that way towards the south. The south humiliated themselves with their brutal treatment of blacks 30 - 40 years ago, and when the rest of the country saw the naked hatred of those who used dogs, water hoses, and violence against blacks non-violently working for equality, we vented our anger towards the south, calling them rednecks and turned the word conservative into a pejoritive term. The south still hasn't recovered and no doubt harbors incredible animosity towards liberals who were at the forefront of the namecalling.

So, how do we heal this mess?

[Gozer the Gozerian]

58. smug and hateful

You mobilize by professionalism and sharp salesmanship. You quit pandering left, and instead look to the middle for your support.

Do you think that Joe "middle income" Schmoe is going to leap to support Democratic candidates when those candidates are focused on minorities and welfare programs? Those guys in the middle are voting GOP only because they see the GOP as better managers of government. They like assertiveness in foreign affairs, and are more than happy to use the military to reach those ends.

Were you to point out the true extremism of social right elements which hooked onto the GOP, you could start wrenching that away.

[Fovea]

67. I don't think we have been guilty of pandering left

Unless you consider Gore or Lieberman the left.

Joe middle income deserted the Dems because he felt we deserted them, and Roger Ailes and Lee Atwater got the meme going that the Republicans cared about middle class, white hetero America. And conversely, that the Dems supported the opposite of that.

The elephant in the parlor is how to get the disaffected and alienated to vote. I submit that if we showed we were on their side, they would.
After Clinton abandoned the fight on national health care, he lost Congress. Was that an accident? No.

The real powerhouse in America sits on its ass on election day. If the Greens, or Libertarians ever got them charged up, that would break the back of the Two Party quagmire we seem to be in these days.

If you want the Dems to win, find a way to turn apathy into action.

[haymaker]

73. Hey smart guy,

if we did everything you suggest to get many of those idiot voters we'd be Republican. I couldn't give a rat's ass if those k-drags vote for a Democratic candidate. Believe me, eventuually, they, or their children will get a clue.

As for you, well thanks for coming into DU, spouting typical right-wing blather ("focused on minority and welfare programs") and suggesting we become RU. I'd like to say it is refreshing and new, but it is tiring and very, very old.

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tlb]

93. How do we heal it ?

If i haad a certain answer for that, it would be me instead of the Iranian lady getting the Nobel. But perhaps step 1 is to remind ourselves it wasn't just the south that had racial problems. Certainly more died in the Detroit riots then in the Selma demonstrations. Not to mention several hundred thousand Japanese Americans uprooted in California and put into camps.

Step 2 might be to stop seeing everyone with a southern accent as a stupid bigoted redneck. That seemed to be Dean's message for example.

Step 3 might be to pay attention to their concerns. Not everybody objects to things like mentioning God in the pledge of allegience. In other words, actually be daring and give them cause to vote for a democrat, instead of expecting their vote as a birthright or duty.

Step 4 might be to ask who the hell are we to say a third of the nation should be expelled from the union for daring to vote against a democrat in one election.


40 years ago isn't now.

[QC]

97. Bravo!

[cosmicdot]

114. "40 years ago isn't now" - is that the truth -- we're regressing

and, that is sad ...

If it was as simple as "God" in a pledge which wasn't there to begin with ... but, I fear the division based upon liars telling lies using the latest in technology to mislead and misinform Americans in order to divide us is much bigger than than the Pledge ... these so-called "issues" keep many occupied so they miss the big picture ...

I mean, what exactly "40 years ago isn't now" suppose to imply?

[KennedyGuy]

5. Be prepared for the same result in 2004 for Bush

We just can't seem to mobilize. They are much better at turning out than we are. First we let them censor CBS due to lack of concern, now these elections. Given our apathy and their commitment, how will anything be different in 2004. I'll tell ya, a lot of Democrats are getting fed up. We NEED to do better.

[Josh]

6. The strategy needs to change -

the Democrats need to use words like "hope" again. There's too much negativity and the Republicans seized on it and painted all the Democrats with it. We need to bring some positive things back to the national campaign next year because being negative always, always ALWAYS decreases turnout. And when that happens, we lose. Plain and simple.

[bridge]

9. I agree w/ Josh...

"There's too much negativity and the Republicans seized on it and painted all the Democrats with it."

WE won't be able to galvanize support if we come across as all doom'n'gloom (especially if the economy begins picking up in the next few quarters!!!!). WE need to generate support based on our ideas, not on our complaints.

[alarimer]

95. negative campaigning

The Republicans always seem to win when they do this though. All they have to do is call the opponent "liberal" or in favor of "big government" or something even worse. Look at what they did to Max Cleland in Georgia. They called him unpatriotic even though he lost three limbs in Viet Nam and his opponent did not even serve ever- like most Republicans. As long as they can keep doing that crap they will win. The Democrats have to learn to not sit back and take that kind of nonsense.

[info being]

85. I've been saying that for 2 years

Only hope-mongering can beat fear-mongering. But only criticizing the fear-mongering does nothing to eliminate the things people are afraid of.

[Gman]

13. At this point, I see no reason to disagree with you

I'm afraid you may very well be correct.

[Flubadubya]

7. Sign of the times?

Are Republicans winning the hearts and minds of the American public? I mentioned yesterday that if the GOP keeps winning local elections then one of two things is wrong: 1) the Diebold conspiracy is deeper than we thought, or 2) the American public have lost their collective minds.

Given the "naiveté" of the American sheeple and the right wing corporate media blitz, it's hard to see it as anything other than #2 in many ways. It's easy (and perhaps somewhat comforting) to lay this all off on BBV, but my deepest fear is that this country really is becoming a great ship of fools. And for that, I don't know what is the remedy.

[dbt]

11. Yeah, Flub, gimme a #2 as well

While I don't doubt for a minute that Black Boxes are playing a bigger role than ever in tipping elections Pug-ward (insurance, doncha know), the larger cause of GOP success lies in the Modern Media Mantra:

"Republicans good, Democrats baa-aad!"

Try to go one day without seeing it or hearing it on your TV. You don't even have to be watching "the news" to get the message.

:argh:
dbt
(Not going to say "Thank God for Mississippi" anymore!)

[piece sine]

12. remedy

ceasing to view voters as "naive sheeple" is a great way to approach adult voters we need to win. Staying in an ivory tower and calling the masses names, looking down your nose at them -- that's a smashing way to become irrelevant to voters. Wiseup DU... these two governors' races put Bush's coattails to the test; at least half-dozen threads here chewed on this point for days. Thinking of voters as sheeple compounded the problem.

[Flubadubya]

15. People who are aggressively ignorant...

and by that I mean those who willfully and adamantly choose NOT to look beyond the samp that they are fed by the media, I don't know what else to call them. To ignore that this type of people makes up a very large portion of our population is to sit upon the ivory tower and remain aggressively ignorant yourself.

I have followed your posts from time to time "piece sine" and I have come to one conclusion about you. You are a complete DU rotter.

[piece sine]

31. whatever rotter means...

I presume you'd rather shoot the messenger that face up to the fact that posts like yours are the core reason Dems. lose year after year. Your attitude has sunk us; yous posts personify the out-of-touch hard-left with little or no connection to the majoroty of voters we must win-over in 2004. My posts call for less emotional reaction and more a visceral understanding of what makes a voter tick.

Demeaning me for contrarian imput where and when it is needed is beneath contempt.

[Flubadubya]

32. I do not revile the masses... (nor you)

but I am realistic enough and know human nature well enough to know that many people are extremely easily swayed by media propaganda and I would like very much to see them do better for themselves (as they really ARE capable of doing). However, it is exceedingly difficult to win their hearts and minds when we have a renegade media doing its damndest to propagandize and brainwash the masses.

Please see my post #30 in this thread for a very good example.

[izzie]

8. In the GOP stong hold they are sitting their just under 50% DEM

It is not so bad. Once the GOP was in that place. It goes up and down.

[booksenkatz]

14. What I don't understand

is that people aren't even voting their f*cking wallets anymore! It's like people are quite happy to be poor, jobless, hungry, and uneducated, wtf??? Are we seeing the Stockholm Syndrome on a regional scale?

As a Southerner I can comfortably say this without too many flames, I hope: I cannot conceive of a Southern strategy that involves appealing to intelligence/logic. Appealing to the wallet also hasn't been working. Any other ideas?
:puke::puke::puke:

Disgusted,

[Kinkistyle]

16. Clark can win this.

Many of our boys in Iraq are from the South and Midwest. The more of them that come home in boxes, the angrier and disillusioned the Bible Belt and Breadbasket folks get with the idiot chickenhawks in office.

In marches an intelligent, ethical 4-star General war hero...

[booksenkatz]

17. That's why I'm torn

between Clark and Dean! My heart says Dean but my head says Clark, when it comes to the South.

[teryang]

22. No one seems to mind the fiscal attack

...on higher education as tuitions have risen 30-50 percent at public colleges and universities. What does this tell you about the electorate?

If there was a proposal to tax admissions to NASCAR events we might have a revolution on our hands.

[Gozer the Gozerian]

60. higher education isn't performing

Thats because higher education has become a joke. How much direction does your average BA/MA holder have toward an actual career? Is the amount of money pissed away on the soft parts of the curriculum justified by the results, the bullshit literature and philosphy courses in particular?

[Fovea]

72. I don't know about your company

But a poll done back in the 90's among Fortune 500 managers identified their biggest complaint as being lack of communication skills.

Having worked in a very techncial field, I can say that the problem
is not the lack of 'hard' academic skills, it is the narrowness of the education of those with Engineering or MBA educations. They can draw leaves all day long, but cannot identify what tree they come from, as it were.

And BTW -- I do not see money spent on philosophy as pissed away. Music, Literature, Philosophy, Art, all teach you different ways of thinking about the world. An MBA seems to teach the values of the herd.

[regularguy]

94. Yeah thinking *is* just so much bulls-it.

Especially when one's energy could be spent on better serving one's coporate masters! Sheesh!

[QC]

123. Heaven forfend that people should learn how to think!

or or read critically or appreciate art and music, or have some sense of what forces produced the world they live in.

This might come as a terrible shock, but the university is not a publicly-funded training camp for the corporations.

[Atlant]

26. It would sure help the rest of us if you guys would secede again. (NT)

[QC]

49. That attitude might explain a lot about why Democrats are

in trouble in the South.

[Freddie Stubbs]

38. They may be voting with their wallets

Both of these state currently have Democratic Governors. If people want change, they will likely vote out the party in power.

[Flubadubya]

39. But, but...

Bill Schneider, CNN's Ace Political Analyst says that your stance is pure democratic, propagandistic spin. Horse malarky!!! Phooey!!

See post #30.

Get with the message dude... GOP RULES!!!

[Wellong]

42. 2 things to help in the South

1) Quit bashing the military. People from the south make up the majority of the armed services. And threads here calling for the killing of American soldiers in Iraq are reflective of too large a portion of the left. Praying for, hoping for, and desiring the death of our soldiers and the defeat of the United States is not a winning strategy, nor a position that should be tolerated.

2) Drop the gun control. Gun control is the one issue that has cost us more elections than any other issue.

[Flubadubya]

44. Deleted for offensive content.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Flubadubya]

51. Well you are wrong on one score...

I do apologize. I'm sorry, but I was appalled that you would say this had been done when I couldn't even imagine that anyone would say it. I acted out in anger and should have looked into this before replying in that state.

Now, I am angry at these people who think and feel this way about our military personnel. To wish for anyone's violent death (or death by any manner) is simply atrocious. Yes, I have read Starpass's posts before and she is quite an angry person. I can't blame her for being angry, but this is beyond the pale.

Again, I admit I spoke in haste and in anger and do apologize. Do you accept my apology?

[Wellong]

52. Yes I do.

I do accept it.

[Flubadubya]

54. Thank you.

[Wellong]

61. Further

I lurked here for a lengthy time prior to signing up to post recently. I noticed this prior to, and more so since starting to post. People will, as you did, jump the gun and post knee jerk reactions to things that are posted. Demanding links, this, that, and the other thing (which they should). But they fail to take even a few moments to do some quick searching to see if what the poster said was true.<P>
I was taken to task by a poster several days ago on a thread about attempts to change the recall laws in California. A poster said it is way to easy to recall someone. I disagreed strongly with them and posted the fact that 31 previous recall attempts of a California Gov had been attempted, and that the 32 second attempt, against Davis (the second attempt against Davis) was the first in 92 years to actually make it to the ballot. The poster, as you did, went off on a profanity laden response calling me a liar and my comments "bullshit". <P>
A quick google search would have shown me to be correct. But it was easier to rant than research. That poster refused to apologize. Another poster even came to my defense and told the poster I was owed an apology. You did, and it is much appreciated.

[Flubadubya]

66. Not a good excuse, but...

I'm afraid one of the reasons for the knee-jerk reactions has to do with low post numbers. I know that is not a good rationale, and certainly not for spewing profanities at another person, but when you've been around long enough to have dealt with many freepers and trolls, it sure is a temptation to think that anyone with fewer than 200 or so posts is suspect.

I will use this experience, hopefully, for better retrospect in the future. And by the way... Welcome to DU! :eyes: <-- the rolling eyes relate to my bad behavior BTW.

[Wellong]

69. I understand

the low post count matter. And it is a legitimate one. But I still contend that 30 seconds of searching Google or DU to see if the poster is telling the truth is a better tactic. And the real beauty of doing so is that if the poster is lying you can post links exposing the poster as a liar instead of demanding the poster provide links showing they are not lying.

[Flubadubya]

71. Totally agreed...

[Classical_Liberal]

107. So what, it has nothing to do with the candidates in question

they didn't bash the military. It could be a freeper plant for all you know.

[Patriot_Spear]

48. You don't know what you're talking about...

No one DU- except for repuke disruptors- wishes the death of any serviceman.

And if you think the Democratic Party has a singel unified postion on responsible gun ownership, you're on crack. Howard Dean has a A+ rating from the NRA, so you're second point is moot.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Patriot_Spear]

57. Clarification- Anyone who wishes service people killed is a disruptor...

...or an asshole of herculean proportions. Your choice.

No real Americna would EVER hope for our military people to suffer because of a politcians mistakes.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Patriot_Spear]

64. I accussed no individual, but...

Anyone who makes such ridiculous comment as to wish the death of our service men and women in my opinion injures the credibility of the entire group.

That being said- one nutcase does not represent the the general consensus and trying to imply it in the example cited is disengenuous at best.

[Wellong]

65. I never

I never implied that the posts of one person (or several) were a consensus of members. I said that those who do harbor such wishes need to be expunged from the party.

It is the fringe wackjobs who harbor such wishes that give wingnuts their ammo to say that a portion democrats are anti-american, hate the military, wish for our defeat, are treasonous, etc...

[Classical_Liberal]

110. If someone registers as a dem there is nothing I or anyone

else can do about it.

[Classical_Liberal]

109. I've seen some disrupters survive that long

because of softhearted mods.

[Classical_Liberal]

108. maybe

. Maybe he/she is just dumber than a box of hammers. It still would be stupid to hold it against candidates who didn't bash the military.

[haymaker]

76. Save it, pal.

Don't pretend that you know the pulse of DU and can pidgeon-hole the entire forum after 160 posts. You don't know what the fuck you are talking about. But you seem to be quite accomplished at parroting the right-wing lies, the lies that do the MOST to hold those ignorant and uninformed voters in the Republican fold.

Peddle your advice elsewhere, cause here it is just so much k-drag pandering.

Yeah, that's it, if the dit-monkeys won't vote for us, then let's just become dit-monkeys. Get a grip.

[Wellong]

101. Lies

I wait breathlessly for you to post my lies in a reply to this post. Please, show them to me.

[Classical_Liberal]

111. You are suggesting if Starpass hates the military

that these Southern Candidates do, which is stupid at best.

[Wellong]

120. Find me anywhere

that i made anything remotely approaching what you are accusing me of.

[haymaker]

116. OK

Show me where the South makes up a majority of the military. Is that in enlisted men from Southern states? Born and raised? Or is that military bases? Please prove your statement that a majority of the military is from the South. I say you're dreaming.

Next, it is not the opinion of most liberals that our military be killed or destroyed as you so numbingly state. Can you cite any statistics that prove this most inane of claims?

And lastly, dropping gun control will not win us any elections. Most urban people and a great many more support some gun control. While most rural people and many others support current gun laws and no more and you could say some people support no gun laws at all.

You are promoting right-wing myths. Either prove them or retract them.

[Wellong]

121. I do not have

the stats at my finger tips. But it is pretty common knowledge that the majority of enlisted soldiers are from southern states.

I have never said that it is the opinion of most liberals that our military be killed. I said that there is a vocal portion of the party who does wish such things and they should be run out of town.

Gun control has cost us many close elections. To deny this is to deny reality. Leave gun laws to states and localities. Running on national gun control policies are costing us close elections in many areas.

[knowledgeispower]

78. Bullshit

I hardly ever see ANY posts calling for the deaths of U.S. troops in Iraq. The only posts that even come close to that are ones that ask the philosophical question of whether the Iraqi's have the right to defend their homeland from foreign occupation, which is a completely legitimate question.

I would expect this kind of "liberals hate our troops" bullshit from Goppers, but on DU it is just unacceptable.

[Wellong]

102. Your not paying attention then

check out Starpass's post that I duplicated in #45. And that is just one. And then threads defending and agreeing with Starpass poped up after that thread was locked, and later deleted. Even Skinner blasted that one.

[Classical_Liberal]

112. If Skinner blasted it, why are you dwelling on it?

Are you going to hijack this tread until you get an apology from an asshole?

[Classical_Liberal]

106. None of those politicians bashed the military

I think the posts on DU that do are infiltrators.

[Wellong]

122. Infiltrators

Infiltrators do not last long enough to rack up greater than 7,000 posts (Starpass). Nor to infultrators have multiple high post count DUers posting multiple threads of support for the next day.

[info being]

80. Gotta go for a hate-filled message

That's about the only thing that works on Americans these days.

[DoYouEverWonder]

19. Calm down folks

The GOP won 2 governorships. From what I am reading so far it seems the Dems won just about everything else yesterday.

In MS, you had a man with national name recognition, lots more money to spend then the dems and the big guns, W and Rudy going down there to help him out and it was still a very close race. In KY it sounds like the Dem candidate had plenty of problems working against him including some sort of sex scandal.

I know the media is making a big deal of this, as if it was some sort of Repug landslide but it was not. As a matter of fact, I think it is shows that despite the advantages of lots more money and voting machines that can be easily manipulated it really wasn't a good day for the Repugs.

[Flubadubya]

20. Ah, but the media spin....

There is the operative "rub". The fact that the media is making it out to be a "Republican landslide" is the very problem in all this. It is just another chip, chip, chip away at duping the American public. This is really worse than you think, perhaps.

Since I have been previously "upbraided" in this thread for referring to the willfully ignorant in this country as "sheeple" I shall refrain (wouldn't want to ruffle any wool). Nonetheless, as long as the media is able to plant the seed of Republican "victory", no matter how spurious, the notion WILL be taken up by the masses.

I certainly do NOT look down my nose at anyone, but I do lament the fact that it is next to impossible to "educate" a very large portion of this population to the fact that they are being played as pawns in the great GOP chess game, and as long as the right wing media is complicit and can stack the deck so tremendously, I really don't know what our chances will ever be of making a come back.

[DoYouEverWonder]

21. Then let them spin

What this tells us is that in 2004 we better do everything in our power to make sure that the pResdient does not get reelected and that we can't sit around on our butts hoping that the Democratic party or the DLC will be of any help at all. It is up to folks like us to take matters into our own hands.

So what if the repugs won the governerships in two states that went to Bu$h in 2000? It really has nothing to do with how people are going to vote for president in 2004. Yes, we have a lot of work to do between now and then. Hopefully, losing these two races will be the kick in the ass us Dems need to fight the GOP beast.

[maxrandb]

46. Problem is

Americans love a winner. As long as the media keeps feeding this as a GOP landslide Americans will want to jump on the winning bandwagon. Never saw so many Florida Marlin fans until they win the World Series.

Also, people tend to gravitate towards a party that will stand up and fight. They also just won with a boycott threat of CBS. How many times have the Democrats actually organized a boycott of Limpballs advertisers, or Coulters publishers. We don't. We just whimper and take it up the a$$. Why should we get out and fight when our national party won't even do it?

[Wellong]

53. Boycotts

How many times have the Democrats actually organized a boycott of Limpballs advertisers

There have been constant attempts at boycotts of Limbaugh sponsors. They have all failed.

[dusty64]

23. The win of barbour left a

particularly bad taste in my mouth. As far as I could see, he ran an overtly rascist campaign complete with all the trappings and symbols of the confederacy and the vote wasn't even that close. I don't know exactly what the hell is wrong with these people, but I'm about ready to write off the South until things get bad enough down there to wake them up. The results of Louisiana will really determine whether or not it is worth contesting at all or leaving them to turn into a cesspool. Of course, we've got the "Democrats" down there turning traitor and endorsing the rethug candidate. I guess they will reap what they sow.

[Wellong]

43. Cess pool

Ya, the south is such a cess pool that the majority of migration is to the south from other states. Including myself. Who left NY 7.5 years ago to move to NC. I love it down here and have no interest in ever moving back to NY.

[moondust]

24. What's that giant sucking sound?

Oh, it's just KY and MS swirling down the drain.

[Democat]

25. They control the entire media

These elections are brought to you by Clear Channel.

As long as they own the media, we are fucked.

[Flubadubya]

30. CNN political analyst Bill Schneider's take on the wins...

True to his RW, GOP bias, CNN's political analyst Bill Schneider has something to this effect to say:

"The democrats will spin these losses as reflecting a referendum on dissatisfaction with incumbents, and that it does not bode well for Bush in 2004 as an incumbent, BUT the truth is that Republicans have a very strong base in the South now."

That is paraphrasing what he said a bit, but it's almost verbatim. How can we fight this kind of crap, huh? :puke:

[DoYouEverWonder]

33. Thanks Bill

I hadn't looked at the situation in that way. I think it's a great way to spin it. Kick out the incumbents, especially the one in the WH.

[0007]

83. I agree and let's boycott the media whores

I wish CNN would fire that Bil Bill Schneider guy whom I can't stand and can't figure out why folks think that he knows anything other than spin.

[DoYouEverWonder]

105. Isn't he an AEI fellow?

It's his job to spin for the neocons. These days you have to wear your bias on your sleeve just to get a job in TV news.

[piece sine]

34. to win or to vent?

to actually WIN, the Democratic Party need to articulate message that appeals a broad range of voters. I have been a Dean support (vecause of my rage against the war) but I am drifting to support Wes Clark after last night because voters perceive him to be more alligned with their values. At some point, political victory musrt involve compromise. "Losing with dignity" still really sucks. "Winning with a coalition of voters" may sully ideological purity but it sure feels good.

All I'm asking is that we not demean the same voters we need to build bridges with. This isn't a private website...when the Wall Street Journal trashed DU a few weeks ago (and it was rotten ol' "piece sine" that was the first to ring all the alarm bells here at DU) that WSJ flame-job went to over 2 million people! C'mon...when anyone trashes the masses here, it is read by far more than just the 33,000 registered DUers. We're the focus of many other websites.

[Flubadubya]

37. I see your point piece sine...

I just hope that people can be educated about the treachery of the GOP before they have to learn the lesson the hard way... because if it comes to that, it will be more than just ignorant GOP voters that suffer. We will all suffer. Will we actually have to lose our democracy before things can be set right again? I certainly hope not, but I sincerely believe that is where this mess is headed.

[piece sine]

68. I see your point Flubadubya

We got off on the wrong foot this morning and I regret that. My modus operendi is simple: I see a lot of the same sentiments posted here over and over again. So rather than repeat what's already been said, I try -- real hard -- to add something (even if it may seem against the prevailing mood) to at least expand, if not enrich, the over-all discussion.

I have been a gay Democrat my whole life. I know the impact of pain, prejustice and loss and want to make change happen.

When I was thirteen me and my big (homo) mouth got in trouble with redneck neighborhood bullies. They attacked this little queer with purple paint and it took an over-night stay in the emergency room to get the paint out of my eyes. I've felt humankind's hate much more than love. But I try to dispel hate whenever I can and embrace love because it's the only way. That's why I'm proud to be Democrat and I keep a stiff upper lip whenever I get flamed at DU. In a corporate sense, I am the furtherest thing from a nodding "yes-man."

[Flubadubya]

70. I seem to be apologizing all over the place today LOL!

...but I certainly admit to having been brusque in my response to you as well. I have just noted that you do tend to play the "devil's advocate" a good bit now and then. No harm there, and should be welcomed. You're right, we need to keep the dialogs upbeat, creative, and responsive around here... and certainly more civil (including myself). Thanks for the input.

[piece sine]

74. Thank you!

I also apologize for an almost uncontrolable penchant to be a smart-ass. I don't even have to pretend to be a Devil's advocate...it oozes out of me naturally.

I will try, in my posts in the future, tio make it more clear that I am taking a contrarian pose forthe purpose of exploring various perspectives. I came down waaay too hard on you earlier in this thread for your frustration over last night's election results.

Like Skinner, our fearless leader says, ALL this haggling STOPS once our candidate is chosen.

[Flubadubya]

75. Well now.. for a little self disclosure..

I have never really had any kind of problem with anger in the past. I have always been a nearly extreme pacifist. Since the theft of 2000, however, I have just gotten way too emotionally invested in all this I think. I probably need to revert to my old peaceful, philosphical nature and accept some things as they are. But you are right, it really is frustrating to see our country "going South" (pun intended? :)).

Anyway, I am going to be looking to have more positive input here at DU. I think it is a critical time in the life of our nation (as well as this board), and I know for a fact that negativity and anger help nothing. Will look forward to seeing you around.

[piece sine]

77. kudos for the Buddha

if there any theological icon who stirs my soul, it is your avatar of Buddha -- my main man! I do not practice religion, but respect key aspects of most ofther main faiths. I do hold a special place in my heart for Buddha. I draw strength from his calm serenity. I want to be more like him. But first I want to elect a Democratic president.

[Flubadubya]

81. Let's do it...

I think it will please the Buddha! :-) <-- Buddha Smile!

[kskiska]

59. Schneider is from the American Enterprise Institute

a rabid right-wing think tank.

[Wellong]

63. What about the statement is false

"The democrats will spin these losses as reflecting a referendum on dissatisfaction with incumbents, and that it does not bode well for Bush in 2004 as an incumbent, BUT the truth is that Republicans have a very strong base in the South now."

What about this statement is false? After Arnold's win, the line from democrats almost too a tee was that this is a bad sign for Bush as it is a clear signal to incumbents that they are in trouble because the people don't like the way things are going.

And the republicans do have a very strong base in the south. This can not be denied.

[knowledgeispower]

82. You can say "fuck you Bill Schneider"

That is how you fight "this kind of crap." Reason doesn't work, so just turn off CNN and encourage others to do so as well.

[Ruby Romaine]

36. We ran out of ballots in "liberal & Democratic" Ann Arbor!

Frustrated Ann Arbor voters waited as long as 45 minutes at the polls Tuesday, while others walked off without voting, after officials underestimated the turnout and left 30 of the city's 48 precincts without ballots at various times during the day...

http://www.mlive.com/news/aanews/index.ssf?/base/news-6/1068032402113390.xml

Is this a warm-up for 2004?

[Wellong]

47. Who runs the elections there

are the elections offices in Ann Arbor GOP or Democrat controlled and ran? If GOP, it may be a sign of things to come. If democrat controlled what does it have to do with things to come in 2004?

[lordwhorfin]

99. A word of advice

In addition to attracting dubious replies due to low post totals, you'll also attract dubious replies if you use 'Democrat' as an adjective in place of 'Democratic.' If you refer to the election as 'Democrat run,' you are writing what reads as a GOP talking point. No Democrats I know use 'Democrat' as an adjective on purpose, but nearly all Republicans do so.

[Wellong]

103. I have all my life

called democrats democrats. And I will continue to do so.

My senator, John Edwards is a DEMOCRAT. He is not a democratic, or any other variation on the word.

The North Carolina State Senate is DEMOCRAT controlled. It is not democratic controlled. And our Gov is a DEMOCRAT.

[farmbo]

40. Now are we allowed to talk to the "guys with rebel flags on their trucks"?

Or are those NASCAD Dads-- the guys with rebel flags on their trucks-- who voted for Barbour and Fletcher still off limits; their issues a new "third rail" of American politics?

Or shall we call it a day, stay "correct" on the relevant cultural issues, and resign ourselves to being a permanent minority party?

[Goldenboy]

104. Setting the record straight

Of course we can talk to the 'guys with rebel flags on their trucks'. Talking to them for their votes in no way equates to agreeing with displaying the Stars and Bars and for what the Reb flag stands for. The Dems have got to do better in the South or it's curtains again. And frankly, if Gore had won his home state of Tennessee, we wouldn't even be talking about Florida.

What we have to do is to find common ground with them on economic issues and downplay the hot button social issues that are a big deal in San Francisco or New York but are DOA with this group. C'mon, folks, it's common sense. You think Bush is going to talk about prayer in schools and abortion to socially-moderate suburbanites?

[Patriot_Spear]

55. My take- As a Kentuckian...

Fletcher pulled out all the stops and used every wedge issue he could, appealing to the uninformed and overly religious majority of my state.

While he was in Washington, there was nothing we Ky Democrats could do to stop his excesses; now he's been elected with a Democratic Atty General (former House leader) and a Democratis State Auditor- he'll have to move VERY carefully in a capital that has belonged to Democrats for 32 years.

I think this will be a golden oppurtunity finally bring him down, because like most republicans, he's got dirty, sticky fingers.

Call this spin if you want- but I'll bet the milk money Fletcher ultimately regrets his Pyhrric "win".

[kicknitup]

87. Chandler carried least educated part of Kentucky

The only region Chandler won was the Eastern part, the poorest and least educated part of Kentucky. Fletcher won for two reasons. 1)Paul Patton's legacy and 2)people are sick of being at the bottom of everything and feel as if the democrats have had their shot (30+years).

Look, I'm from Kentucky and what everyone doesn't understand is that there are two types of democrats - 1)your enlightened, liberal Wellstone type and 2)your good ole' boy southern democrat who is dying out and I say good riddance to him.

[kicknitup]

88. rebel flags

And it is your "good ole boy" southern democrat who is more likely going to be flying a rebel flag than the conservative, Christian Republican. I know many of you don't understand this but I live with it everyday.

[Patriot_Spear]

89. I don't know what state your from...

But Fletcher only won because the rightwing voting majority of Kentuckians are religious robots that obey bigots and morons like 'Rev' Jeff Fugate in Lexington.

Democrats are alive and well in Kentucky- what's 'dying off' in my state is education and reason.

[kicknitup]

92. I'm from Kentucky-like you......

and I know plenty of people who voted for Fletcher who are in no way "bigots and morons" and wouldn't know Jeff Fugate if he was standing in front of them.

I voted Democrat, Republican and Independent in the different races yesterday.

Kentucky is finally breaking out of the stranglehold of the old-time political system and that is a good thing.

The Democrats need to clean house if they want to stay in the game.

[Patriot_Spear]

96. Quoting Fletcher? ...wow.

You've got the GOP party line down pretty well. Clean up Frankfort? -Let's start with Williams and his gang of thugs in the state senate.

[kicknitup]

98. I'm not quoting Fletcher

Paul Patton was/is the governor. He should have done his party a big favor and resigned. That's what I meant by cleaning up Frankfort. Do you think most voters had their eyes on the senate or the governor over the last few years?

Paul Patton = corruption in a lot of voter's minds and it showed at the polls yesterday.

I just started posting yesterday to this forum - some of you all need to get down off your high-horse for just a minute or two. Just because someone disagrees with your point or has an alternative view doesn't mean they're the "enemy" or ignorant. The threads on Dean and the rebel flag take the cake.

[aquart]

100. Would you WANT to be a Republican governor under BushCo?

These may be the guys who end up forcing him out.

They won't be allowed to complain. They won't be able to make the deficits go away. The states are quagmires right now. Because of our dear George.

What can they do that will make them look good?

[jus_the_facts]

115. I'm aware when I'll be voting here in Louisiana....BUT....

....the atmosphere here leads me to believe we'll be remaining under PUKE rule....regardless if Blanco wins too 'cuz she's a big DINO so there won't be *MUCH* difference eventhough she has a *D* behind her name!:eyes:


....and I'll add this too...DEMOCRATS....aren't ever gonna do what needs to be done regarding their nemisis on the right...we've gotta learn that being bipartisan should be AFTER WE FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE...and HAVE THESE THEIVES AND CHEATS AND LIARS...be MADE to PAY...for their CRIMES...INSTEAD OF SLAPS ON THE WRIST AND PARDONS!!! A LOT OF THEM NEED TO BE HANGED FOR TREASON AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY....UNTILL THEY ARE MADE TO PAY PAY PAY...THEN WE CAN JUST FORGET ABOUT ANYTHING EVER BEING OKAY EVER AGAIN!!!! :grr: :mad:

[Tinoire]

118. The HYPOCRISY of back-stabbing Democrats!!

I posted about this repeatedly at DU these last few weeks but here goes again. This is about a LOT more than voting machines. There is a despicable trend WITHIN our own party right now. It happened in Mississipi and one other place (can't remember- sorry) and in California we had our Dem Attorney General vote for Schwarznegger for whom he dropped the "groping" investigation dismissing it to "boyish pranks".

Mississippi Democrats back Barbour


Haley Barbour, former Republican Party national chairman, yesterday won endorsements from four prominent Mississippi Democrats in his quest to unseat Democratic Gov. Ronnie Musgrove next month.

A victory by Mr. Barbour in the Nov. 4 election would help Mississippi Republicans maintain momentum in their drive to dominate politics in the once-overwhelmingly Democratic state, said state Republican Party Chairman Jim Herring.

<snip>
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20031022-104636-4113r.htm

Now check out the Mississippi GOP site:

http://www.msgop.org/

Democrats From Across Mississippi Endorse Haley Barbour
Jackson, MS - Democrats from all across Mississippi endorsed Haley Barbour’s campaign for Governor today at the State Capitol in Jackson

Democrats From Across Mississippi Endorse Haley Barbour

(Jackson, Miss.)—Democrats from all across Mississippi endorsed Haley Barbour’s campaign for Governor today at the State Capitol in Jackson.

Barbour was joined by about forty well-known Democrats from all across the state including former Lt. Governor Brad Dye, former Mississippi Supreme Court Justice Jim Roberts, former Mississippi Supreme Court Chief Justice Lenore Prather and others.



“The Democrats standing with me today are symbolic of Democrats—and Independents—from all over the state who are supporting me and I’m very grateful for their support,” Barbour said. “When I announced my campaign, I stated that my administration—like my campaign—will be bipartisan and biracial. Democrats across the state are supporting my campaign because I’ve stayed focused on issues. I’m addressing problems and offering solutions and I’m willing to pursue opportunities for Mississippi to reach its full potential.”



http://www.haleybarbour.com/DemsAcross.htm
Look closely at the Dem traitors posing with him during their endorsement.

The picture were proudly and prominently displayed on the Mississippi GOP's site: http://www.msgop.org/ these last fews weeks.

Sick, sick.

[agincourt]

119. I wonder how big,

the difference in campaign financing is? Can they outspend us 2-3 to 1?