German media: U.S. preparing Iran strike

[sabra]

http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20051230-124328-9385r

German media: U.S. preparing Iran strike

WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration is preparing its NATO allies for a possible military strike against suspected nuclear sites in Iran in the New Year, according to German media reports, reinforcing similar earlier suggestions in the Turkish media.

The Berlin daily Der Tagesspiegel this week quoted "NATO intelligence sources" who claimed that the NATO allies had been informed that the United States is currently investigating all possibilities of bringing the mullah-led regime into line, including military options. This "all options are open" line has been President George W Bush's publicly stated policy throughout the past 18 months.


But the respected German weekly Der Spiegel notes "What is new here is that Washington appears to be dispatching high-level officials to prepare its allies for a possible attack rather than merely implying the possibility as it has repeatedly done during the past year."

The German news agency DDP cited "Western security sources" to claim that CIA Director Porter Goss asked Turkey's premier Recep Tayyip Erdogan to provide political and logistic support for air strikes against Iranian nuclear and military targets. Goss, who visited Ankara and met Erdogan on Dec. 12, was also reported to have to have asked for special cooperation from Turkish intelligence to help prepare and monitor the operation.

[wakeme2008]

1. We do not have enough body bags for a war with Iran

:cry:

Iran IMHO will not roll over and be good. They will strike back and hard.

[tavalon]

29. Oh, come on,

they'll greet us with flowers.

As an aside, I hope with all of my heart that Will Pitt is right about this one - that we won't do this because of Iran's new ally, China.

[AuntiBush]

36. I'm With You - Will Pitts Might Be Right Here...

Paraphrasing his post from the other day (or yesterday..?) it would be like putting a gun to their (*/adm) heads.

Hoping this is all hype, with fingers crossed behind my back.

[No Exit]

53. Maybe so, but what WILL they do about Iran's coming bourse?

I mean, the BFEE and its fellow international financial criminals are backed to the wall if Iran starts trading oil futures in euros.

So the BFEE and fellow criminals have to do something. So what can they do? Except start another fraudulent war?

PS don't forget that in addition to China, the Russians are also on the side of Iranians.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

99. India also has treaties with Iran. Could get VERY interesting.

[No Exit]

109. But... but... I don't WANT interesting!

It might get so interesting that it turns into WWIII!!!

Thanks again, George W. Bush.

[bpilgrim]

101. china, russia & rest of the industrialized world had treaties with iraq 2

but we still went in.

after 5 years of these crazies i have no doubt that they will attack another ME country before their time is up and the more domestic political pressure here at home the more likely it will be sooner rather than later.

(obviously i hope they won't but look who's driv'n da bus)


peace

[saskatoon]

74. Enough body bags

That has nothing to do with it, there will not be any foot soldiers involved. We will just Bomb Iran and swear it was just military targets (and that might well be true) but neverless with all that pin point precision crap there are going to be dead civilians and horribly injured little children and I wish Bush and his fellow evil people to rot in hell.

[MADem]

111. Actually, we do

We've got at least 50K of the suckers in a warehouse, and a contract for more, if needed. They can be run up as quickly as kids drop like flies...which is a sad commentary, in and of itself.

What will be problematic is the aluminum "transfer tubes" that hold the body bag until it gets to Dover. The mortuary there is a state of the art, recently upgraded and redone, facility, designed to handle many, many more casualties than they are seeing now. Massive storage and refrigeration cabability, huge areas to process large numbers of remains...

But the transfer tubes, they'll need to churn out more of those, and make extra seals so that they can repair them in the field after hard use. And if we go to Iran, they will get hard use. Iranians are real nationalists; they won't roll over in an invasion. Look at the stalemate war they conducted, grinding down the flower of their youth over a decade, with Iraq....

[Comadreja]

134. the reality in the ground

[znowboarding]

128. Isreal will stike before the US

Just my opinion

[sasha031]

2. my question would be

why would the US have any allies at all.

[Hobarticus]

3. Lessee....a seriously pissed-off Iran invades Iraq in retaliation...

Overruns the allies and whatever shell of an Iraqi self-defense force we've thrown together...if we don't nuke the place flat, Iran partners with the newly-elected Shiite majority to wrap up those troublesome Sunnis for good...massive civil war ensues. The Southwest Asia Butcher Shop's open for keeps.

Meanwhile, Iran's nuke program plods along, maybe producing a warhead in a decade.

Those two guys on the Guinness commercial make great strategists.

[lumberjack_jeff]

16. No need to invade, we've set up an Iran-friendly Iraq

Good planning, guys. 1) Frame Iraq. 2) Replace the secular government with a Shiite theocracy (with the imprimatur of democracy). 3) Attack the other nearby Shiite theocracy.

We've created a new Ottoman empire with a death wish. Good job, George.

[robertpaulsen]

129. Here's how Iran-friendly Iraq is: Iranians are training Iraqis militarily.

These links should give an indication of just how messy occupation can still get in Iraq if we choose to take on Iran, either through proxy (Israel) or alone:


Iranians to train Iraq's military

Former enemies Iran and Iraq say they will launch broad military co-operation including training Iraqi armed forces.

"It's a new chapter in our relations with Iraq," said Iranian Defence Minister Admiral Ali Shamkhani.

He was speaking at a joint news conference in Tehran with his Iraqi counterpart Saadoun al-Dulaimi.

Relations between the neighbours - who fought a bitter war from 1980 to 1988 - have improved greatly since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein in 2003.

This is the first visit to Iran by an Iraqi military delegation since the war, in which a million people died, started.

The promise of co-operation comes despite repeated accusations by the US - which has about 140,000 troops in Iraq - that Iran has been undermining security there.

more...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4659287.stm


Iraq to launch military co-operation with Iran
7/7/2005 5:30:00 PM GMT

Iraq's Defense Minister, on a historic visit to Iran, said that both countries decided to launch a broad military co-operation.

"We have come here to turn a painful page and to open another," Saadun al-Dulaimi said Thursday at a joint new conference in Tehran with his Iranian counterpart Ali Shamkhani.

"I have come to Iran to ask forgiveness for what Saddam Hussein has done," al-Dulaimi said, referring to the 1980-1988 war between Iran and Iraq.

Dulaimi said that the two neighbors will launch military and "anti-terrorist" co-operation, but he also asserted that it was still too soon for the U.S. to leave his country.

Diplomatic relations between the two countries have improved greatly since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

The promise of co-operation comes despite the U.S. allegations that Iran is aiding the Iraqi resistance and that it is seeking atomic weapons.

more...

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_id=8953

[Ezlivin]

4. Eternal war for eternal peace

Goodbye America, we hardly knew ye.

[Deja Q]

5. Good. I'm sick of living anyway.

Given how China and Russia are helping Iran, combined with Shrub's own words, both of those countries are terrorists too. They will not stand anyone attacking Iran and they will fight US interests.

Expect corporate america to be in for a rude awakening. And forgive me when I start to laugh over their folly.

[UpInArms]

6. I would guess there won't be a need for a new Last Will and

Testament, 'cause this one will take out all our heirs too.

:(

[AuntiBush]

37. Guess the PNAC Neo-Con War-Mongrels

think they can take it with them!

While I lean toward Will Pitts assertion, like you UpInArms I too have lost hope.

Bye-bye, Miss American Pie...

[54anickel]

63. Is this somehow tied to the musical chairs at the Pentagon?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2010442#2012888

[allemand]

7. SPIEGEL: Is Washington Planning a Military Strike?

Recent reports in the German media suggest that the United States may be preparing its allies for an imminent military strike against facilities that are part of Iran's suspected clandestine nuclear weapons program.

It's hardly news that US President George Bush refuses to rule out possible military action against Iran if Tehran continues to pursue its controversial nuclear ambitions. But in Germany, speculation is mounting that Washington is preparing to carry out air strikes against suspected Iranian nuclear sites perhaps even as soon as early 2006.

German diplomats began speaking of the prospect two years ago -- long before the Bush administration decided to give the European Union more time to convince Iran to abandon its ambitions, or at the very least put its civilian nuclear program under international controls. But the growing likelihood of the military option is back in the headlines in Germany thanks to a slew of stories that have run in the national media here over the holidays.

The most talked about story is a Dec. 23 piece by the German news agency DDP from journalist and intelligence expert Udo Ulfkotte. The story has generated controversy not only because of its material, but also because of the reporter's past. Critics allege that Ulfkotte in his previous reporting got too close to sources at Germany's foreign intelligence agency, the BND. But Ulfkotte has himself noted that he has been under investigation by the government in the past (indeed, his home and offices have been searched multiple times) for allegations that he published state secrets -- a charge that he claims would underscore rather than undermine the veracity of his work.

More:
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,392783,00.html

[sabra]

8. thanks for the post.

[EVDebs]

41. Iran's nuclear program is probably more likely to create another Chernobyl

before 'perfecting' any fissle material. I'd be more worried about Israelis building submarines capable of launching nuclear attacks on Iran, and the US getting blamed. IMHO and for what it's worth.

[DBoon]

9. Are we prepared to lose a war with Iran?

eventually, the bush boys will over extend themselves, and take on something that results in an obvious military loss.

Iran could be it.

[reprobate]

15. DBoon, I expect you are right. It's a scenario I've feared for a year.

I don't expect the Iranian hatred of the US has waned much in the last three years. Those of us with enough internal RAM to remember the days of the Shah and what our support of his secret police let him do to their people will understand this.

Iran has a huge army and could likely overwhelm our forces in Iraq within a few days, particularly with the help of their allies in the Iraq military. I've heard that over a third of the Iraqi army is made up of Shia militia undercovers. I'm afraid a good investment opportunity will be in body bag manufacturers. They also have been reported to have missiles provided by russia and china. I would assume that they planned ahead and a good portion of them will be the new russian ground to air missiles, including the shoulder fired type. Wouldn't that be a kick for russia, to get back at us for supplying all those stingers to the mujahadeen to knock down their copters in Afghanistan?

And remember that this bunch of criminals pay no attention to the law. They have consistently flouted the Law of Unintended Consequences. This may be another instance of that. Attack Iran and the unintended consequence of that will be the destruction of our forces in Iraq. Then they'll find some way to blame Clinton, right?

[leftchick]

24. I keep remembering this Sunburn Missile story...

If true it does not bode well for the US fleet in the Gulf region....

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7147.htm


<snip>

Here is where the story thickens: Summer Pulse amounted to a tacit acknowledgement, obvious to anyone paying attention, that the United States has been eclipsed in an important area of military technology, and that this qualitative edge is now being wielded by others, including the Chinese; because those otherwise very ordinary destroyers were, in fact, launching platforms for Russian-made 3M-82 Moskit anti-ship cruise missiles (NATO designation: SS-N-22 Sunburn), a weapon for which the US Navy currently has no defense. Here I am not suggesting that the US status of lone world Superpower has been surpassed. I am simply saying that a new global balance of power is emerging, in which other individual states may, on occasion, achieve “an asymmetric advantage” over the US. And this, in my view, explains the immense scale of Summer Pulse. The US show last summer of overwhelming strength was calculated to send a message

[porkrind]

50. Weird, that popped into my mind also when I read the thread title.

Scary.

[arewenotdemo]

54. Not to pick nits, leftchick

but IMO the U.S. has never been the "lone world superpower". The arrogant conceit behind that lie is why America felt secure in attacking Iraq and may yet attack Iran, but it is and always has been a lie.

[leftchick]

55. I agree with you

absolutely. If ameriKans believe Russia and China will quitely watch an Iran invasion/attack by the US they are sadly mistaken.

[MADem]

112. China recently inked a deal to develop oil fields in Iran

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3970855.stm

As well as purchase natgas from them. They won't sit on their hands. The only hope for this adventure to succeed is for the US to persuade China that they'll get a bigger chunk of the pie by screwing their trading parter.

The prospect of Beijing increasing its reliance on Iranian energy sources may spark concern in Washington, however, as the US is spearheading international efforts to curb Iran's nuclear programme.

Success may depend on China's support, as it is one of five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council.

The UN has asked Iran to suspend all uranium enrichment or face referral the Security Council, but Iran's parliament has voted in favour of a law making it obligatory for the Iranian government to pursue uranium enrichment.

China and Iran share an alliance as developing nations and visits by senior leaders are commonplace. In April, Iranian Vice-President Mohammad Setarifar co-chaired the twelfth China-Iran Co-operation Commission meeting in Beijing.

The entire article is instructive, FWIW.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

25. We're already losing the illegal and immoral war in Iraq....

...why should Iran be any different?

If the NeoCons are planning to use a preemptive nuclear strike, and then ALL bets will be off in terms of an escalation into a global nuclear conflict.

Happy days are here again!

[tavalon]

30. Even without China in the mix

Iran will be different because it won't be a slow, long slog to defeat, it will be a quick smackdown and complete decimation of our forces.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

32. Disagree. (Depending on your definition of quick)

The US is plenty capable of handling Iran on a macro level. I.e, taking out missile silos, air force and tank battalions. We're up shit creek on the micro level, though. I.e, occupation.

The neo-dumbshits are overestimating the will of the American people for another hegemony. Iow, any war will end here before it ends "there." So maybe you're right, it will be a quick smackdown.

[Seabiscuit]

121. Ya think? I thought Iraq was their obvious military loss.

[wordpix]

123. how about Iraq? The inept BushCo is losing there already

[kineneb]

10. the inmates are running the assylum

quick, can I get out, please??? Maybe the Maya calendar was correct after all.

As a former inhabitant of Iran (1970-71, Tehran American School) I can say that an attack will be an unmitigated disaster.

[BeHereNow]

43. Not just the Mayan Calendar- the Hopi and Kogi as well. n/t

bhn:hide:

[54anickel]

89. Start of the golden age or end of the world? Maybe just an end to

the world as we know it? Might not be a bad thing, sure seems like we could use a fresh start. Assuming "we" are still around. :shrug:

How's it going BHN? :hi:

[BeHereNow]

115. Indigenous people refer to it as "The Great Change"

And yes, we are due for one.
I grow more comfortable with the thought every day.
I know my inside self is more at peace, despite the
growing malignancy the "world" over.

The traditional friends I have all say the same thing-
get in tune with the mother because that detemines
where you end up on the other side of the "change."

Oki

So in answer to your thoughtful question,
"How am I doing?"
Pretty damn great. Making it a point to
visit the horses more, paint, write and
keep my hands in clay or on a musical instrument.
Taking no moments with loved ones, two and four legged
for granted.
Hope you are doing fine too!
BHN

[54anickel]

116. Good to hear! You do seem much more relaxed these days in your posts.

;-)

I am doing well, pretty much in the same frame of mind. Enjoying family, friends, pets, music and the arts. Live each day to it's fullest and enjoying the simpler things life has to offer.

:toast:

[BeHereNow]

117. LOL! Yes, more relaxed because I have come to understand

There aint no point in beating a dead horse.
I still believe what I believe based on what I
understand of how far gone it is and will
continue to say so, but it's not up to me
how it turns out for anyone else.
Happy New Year 54!
BHN

[ckramer]

78. Then how about doing this after the midterm election?

There are two more years left after the midterm election...and then because of the war (it could be very brutal), Bush'd extend his presidency to another four years in 2008 for the emergency...hehehe...don't say that's not possible...

Edit: ooops, wrong place, this post supposed to respond to post #11.

[Zynx]

11. Doubt this. Bush doesn't want a depression in an election year.

Starting a fight with Iran = global oil shortage by quite a bit = $150-200 a barrel oil = US out of gas = depression = Republicans out = impeached Bush.

[Selteri]

12. You're making one mistake

expecting intelligence and realistic planning from this adminsit5ration and the chimpster.

[Tight_rope]

146. I totally agree..."The history books will tell it all!"

The whole Bush administration are all idiots:spank:

[AndyTiedye]

19. Would Bush**'s Oil Baron Friends Mind if Oil went to $200 a Barrel?

They would :party: while everybody else froze.

[MadHound]

20. Yes but you're forgettng two things

The first being that Bushco owns the voting machines now, and thus no matter the public outrage, they can insure their victory next fall.

The second is that this sort of attack will likely be met with some massive terrorist style attacks on our own soil, with martial law soon to follow. And sadly the sheeple will cheer wildly and accept their shackles gratefully.

[AndyTiedye]

21. It is SUPPOSED to be an Election Year

Bush**ler has said, in effect, that being at war allows him absolute power.
Presumably that would include the power to postpone/call off elections, or
even shut down Congress.

I wouldn't put it past him to try.

[cliss]

13. I know Bush would like to try -

but it's unlikely he would do so. Bush is a saber-rattler. He loves to stir up shit, make people shake in their boots.

Remember last year, right around this time? Bush started a campaign against Iran. The war drums started beating, big time. Bush made it seem like things were really serious, we could bomb them at any moment, Rice was sent over to Europe to "patch things up", envoys were sent here and there. It was like shaing a bee's nest.

Suddenly, the furor died down. We didn't hear anything more about it. What happened?

Russia suddenly appeared on the scene. They sold missiles to Iran. China started showing up. Even Hugo Chavez came out. There were lots of deals being made. Lots of PUBLIC events, back-slapping, photo-ops of leaders showing up there, lots of weapons deals being made. It was all very public. Iran made oil deals with India, natural gas deals with China, Chavez

I understood what happened. The world called Bush on his bluff. Bush lost. It's important to realize that world leaders understand who they're dealing with. The US is a rogue state now. We're unpredictable, liable to do anything.

Unless someone stops us. And they have. There have been many, MANY instances where they have stopped Bush in his tracks. Thank God for the rest of the world. They're trying to stabilize this rogue regime.

[ugarte]

14. Big game of 'chicken' going on

The US tells its allies "This time we're really, really serious", knowing word will leak back to Iran. The reason I think it's bluster is because there really aren't any feasible military options, short of nukes, and even Bush can't be that insane. (Or can he?)

[yardwork]

23. That's what I thought bushco was doing in early 2003

I didn't want to believe that bushco would really invade Iraq - I thought they were just sabre-rattling.

Now I've learned not to put anything past them. Their idiocy knows no bounds. bushco is capable of dropping a nuclear bomb, which would unleash armageddon.

[HuffleClaw]

18. good point but...

... this time around they won't be playing any diplomatic games, they'll act first, and damn the consequences. they so very desperately need a distraction and this would do it. in fact i wouldn't be surprised if they did something BEFORE the SOTU. but china and russia would be slightly miffed. i'd call it a toss-up. depending on any sort of prudence from gw is a real risk. he's a bully and when threatened (as he so clearly is) bullies strike out blindly.

[KoKo]

59. Thanks for the more "hopeful" post Cliss....

It's hard to keep a perspective these days. I swing from thinking that NATO is in bed with Bush and so is the UN (they couldn't stop him from invading Iraq no matter how many people protested all over the world) to thinking what you say, that Bush is being stopped at every turn and that wiser heads are calling the shots.

What we are seeing is maybe angry cornered animals (Abramoff/Delay/Plamegate/9/11/Katrina) who are grasping at any straw to divert attention away from their crashing and burning...taking Poppy's reputation down with them.

But, I'm running out of hope these days...Who knows what the truth is, anymore. Our media has been on total "Lock Down" for weeks now. We could nuke Iran and we wouldn't know about it for days...except those of us here on the internet. Won't be long before they pull the plug on us here because we can expose their lies.

[cliss]

70. It is frightening, I agree.

I know Bush would love more than anything to take Iran. I've actually read articles where they believe that while Saudi Arabia's oil fields and Kuwait's oil fields are going to start a rapid decline, Iran actually has the world's #1 supply of oil.

I think Bush and Cheney have foam hanging out of their mouths, at the thought of taking Iran. Just think, possibly the world's #1 supply of oil. They definitely have the world's largest supply of natural gas.

So this is a very resource-rich country. The Iranians are no fools. They have a large army. They have a loyal population. The country would to be tough to conquer. It's larger, has a mountainous region. Also a bigger population = 68 million. Iraq = 22 million. Afghanistan = 30 million.

That's a total of 120 million people to control, suppress, keep down. Answer = it ain't gonna happen.

And really, if they had been able to do it, they would have done it by now. But they knew they couldn't do it. That's why they took Iraq. It was weak, smaller population.

[Divernan]

17. He'll reduce US troops in Iraq by sending them into Iran.

And by the way - to all those neocons who compare how many troops the US lost in WW Two, as compared to Iraq, I point out that not a single US soldier was killed by a German DURING THE OCCUPATION OF GERMANY. The few hundred GIs who were killed then died in skirmishes with USSR troops. I consider the "occupation" of Iraq to have commenced after the US troops entered Baghdad and Bush declared victory, and certainly no later than that fool's "Mission Accomplished" photo op on the aircraft carrier.

[BeHereNow]

44. No way- we don't have enough troops to do that.

Sending US troops into Iran would be like
sending a water balloon armed troop of
boy scouts to extinguish a seven thousand acre
forest fire in a national park...it would be suicide.
BHN

[flaminbats]

52. no kidding..they need some excuse for bringing back the draft!

and if another "terrorist attack" happens, abortion clinic boomings and violence against minorities not included, Bush thinks declaring martial law must never be a political issue!

Then he won't need permission for abolishing term limits or suspending Writ of Habeas Corpus, anyone who opposes him will become another enemy of the state. All neocon creeps loved screwing New Orleans so much they want everyone to feel the fun! Who cares if people spent their entire lives paying off mortgage on now flooded homes or paying taxes to have a helpful government? Let the feds take this all away in the name of Public Safety. :grr:

[madmark]

22. This maybe on balance the biggest example on why invading iraq

is such a disaster; our ability to move against "real" nuclear proliferators like N. Korea or Iran (whether you think that is a good idea or not) has been crippled diplomatically and degraded militarily by Bush' vanity project in Iraq.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

27. Excuse me, but what have you been reading that makes you believe....

...that Iran is a "nuclear proliferator"? There was an article in the Washington Post withing the last few days that stated very clearly that Iran is at least 10 years away from having a nuclear weapons program.

And we know that North Korea is spreading nuclear technology because the NeoCons tell us that it's true?

The NeoCons' track record on telling the truth is pretty dismal.

[madmark]

35. I think Iran is pursuing nuke tech but doesnt have it yet;

I think N. Korea has the tech; I don't know if they are transferring it. I used language in my post that can be construed to mean that Iran and N. Korea are spreading nuke tech, but that is not what I meant to express. N. Korea and Iran are acquiring (or are already acquiring) the nuke tech for their own use which in my view may be an intolerable state of affairs. I don't give a shit what neocons think about these issues; they are the idiots that drove us into Iraq (for inane reasons set forth in part in their PNAC position paper) and did nothing while N. Korea created multiple nuclear devices and missile technology that can hit the west coast.

[Megahurtz]

26. That would be SO stupid....

And we would all be dragged into it!:scared:

And notice the Dumbing of America. Does anyone else see this in any Mainstream News here? Everyone else in the country is totally unaware of what is being planned!
They're all caught up in the Fucking Holiday!

This is just too scary.:scared:

[MGKrebs]

28. Who LEAKED this!!!

We need an investigation!
Wiretap NATO leaders!
Now the plan is ruined! They know we're coming!
How can we surprise them when our plans are on Page 1?!
Sweet Baby Jeebus! We have to restrict ALL information to only 6 people!
Oh wait, Rove leaks too. Make that 5 people!

[lovuian]

31. Its happening people!!!

We are not in control of this administration!!!

[happyslug]

33. In Invasion of Iran is a NIGHTMARE

Not the the US can NOT defeat Iran, we can be in Tehran within two weeks, but like Iraq that is when the fun begins. You will need the Draft just to replace the people being killed in BOTH Iran and Iraq (and whenever we invade Iran, the Shiites in Iraq will revolt, forcing the US to send Troops to help the British.

Now, Bush can not afford a draft, his support will fizzle as will the Support for the GOP. Basically the Draft is the Kiss of Death, thus I doubt the US will invade Iran. The costs are to high domestically. I believe the Pentagon brass has convinced Bush and Company that unless Bush figures out a way to get more people to enlist an attack on Iran can not occur, the alternative, a Draft, is politically unacceptable so no invasion will occur. The US just do NOT have the Ground forces to hold Iraq and invade and hold Iran at the same time. There are ways to use present troops levels to do both, but then you have no troops to rotate back home for training and the troops become more occupying police than an Army and as such become more and more useless as an army as times goes on (the best example of this was the Army Of The Republic of Vietnam,the ARVN, the ARVN had been nothing but an occupying police force since its inception, no real training done in maneuver, just patrols to look for Viet Cong, as such it was incapable of doing maneuver warfare when in 1974 when North Vietnam invaded). Such permanent "policing" armies do NOT really convert to a proper army (thus why the ARVN failed to stop the North Vietnamese Army in 1974). Such an Army get so tied up in policing that its ability to fight quickly disappears (and to avoid this is one of the reason the US has been rotating Units from Iraq back to the States).

Now, the report uses the term "Attack" and that can include an Air Attack on Iran without the use of ground forces. The US has the Air Force to do such an Attack, it will NOT be as easy as Iraq but losses on the US Side will be minimal. This is even a worse nightmare. Iran controls the whole Northern Coast of the Persian Gulf. Without ground forces to deny Iran access to that Coast, Iran can put its anti-Ship Missiles anywhere along that coast AND PROHIBIT ANY OIL FROM COMING FROM KUWAIT, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and the Rest of the Gulf Coast states. Furthermore Iran has missiles that can reach the Arabian main export port and thus capable of Destroying that port's ability to export oil. Iran also has support in that part of Arabia so it is possible for a terrorist attack on those and other oil facilities could be done. Sooner or later Iran, if attacked, will force the US to break off the Air Attack so that Iran will stops its attacks OR invade Iran and you get the real problem mentioned above in invading Iran.

I can see up to 50% of world wide oil production just stop within a week of such an attack. Such a Shortage will force the US into a Recession AND force the Pentagon to tell the President that he has to adopt some plan to end the Iranian attacks (i.e. stop the air attacks OR invade). Thus you back to the problem of Invading Iran OR quiting the Air Attacks. Bush will NOT want to appear "weak" so he will invade, the Invasion will succeed like it did in Iraq, but then you have an increase in unrest in Iraq (Mostly in the now quiet Shiite Section of Iraq) and guerrillas attacks on the American Forces in Iran. Bush will have to bring back the Draft just to replace the men (and women) being lost in these attacks. That will lead to domestic unrest as young people refuse to get drafted. You may even have riots (AND THAT MAY BE WHAT BUSH WANTS, RIOTS TO JUSTIFY MARTIAL LAW for the riots are hurting the troops and part of the same "terrorist agenda to destroy American").

I dread the above Nightmare, but maybe it is what Bush and Cheney wants,for it can lead to a dictatorship. Remember Bush's debacle on Social Security, Bush still wants to kill Social Security so maybe Bush believes the only way to kill Social Security is in a Dictatorship. Thus with an Invasion of Iran, he gets the Draft, he gets Riots, he uses the Riots to abolish Civil Liberties, he than passes by Decree to make his tax cut to the Rich and Abolish Social Security.

I just can not make myself to believe Bush is so devilish, the above may just be Bush Blundering (i.e. he wants to invade Iran and cares less of the Consequences, and when the Consequences are pointed out to him, he sees them as opportunities to further what he wants to do instead of the disaster they will be). I lean to Bush NOT thinking through the consequences of his actions, as oppose to it being an intentional plot, but the results will be the same, disaster in the US, in the World and In the Middle East. I also believe the Pentagon professional Staff are leaking this out so that people will Stop Bush, but Bush's propaganda machine is so good it is just NOT getting to the Majority of People (when it does the GOP as a whole backs off, thus saving the GOP from Bush's follies for now). The problem I see is in a Dictatorship this check will disappear and with it the GOP. I can see riots and even revolution as people say they want their Social Security (Remember young people, if SS is abolished who is going to take care of your aged parents and grandparents, are you going to leave them die in the streets? The answer to that is no, thus once SS is abolished you will see blood in the Streets, which is something the GOP wants to avoid but Bush seems not to care about one way or another.

Sorry about this rant, but the complications of what Bush is doing is to big to be said is a few words, the complexities are so great you have to view them all together to see what a disaster he is leading this nation into.

[Trevelyan]

40. Really Scary and well written HappySlug - You sound neither

THIS was written MONTHS ago - Bush needs permission to go to the bathroom. Is PNAC Cheney or Bilderberg in charge? Bilderbergers would like to enjoy their money and see the sun and sea not live their whole lives in luxury underground cities that they've built.

'"The fall of Darth Sidious speeds up.....Cheney has desperately moved all forces into Syria to somehow "finish" his bullsh*t securing the realm strategy. Alert all members of the German government, French CIA & other intelligence agencies. Alert prosecutor McNulty. Cheney must be ended once and for all and Sharon tried as a war-criminal."'

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2005/3241cheney_plots_war.html

'"As one Israeli source put it: "Cheney has told Ariel Sharon that the American people will never tolerate the removal of a President or Vice President during wartime. He is pressuring Sharon to back up U.S. war plans, targeting Syria and Iran. Cheney sees his political days numbered, and he is desperate for a war to save his political hide."

The Israeli source reported that the Vice President roused Sharon out of bed recently at 3 AM, Israeli time, to press him for support for possible military actions against Syria and Iran. Israeli military intelligence has weighed in strongly against "regime change" in Damascus, warning that any post-Bashar Assad government would be more dangerous, and could possibly involve the Muslim Brotherhood or other radical Islamists, far more hostile towards Israel.

Despite this opposition, the source indicated that Sharon is under enormous pressure from the United States to deliver. Already, Israel has accelerated delivery of high-altitude drone unmanned aircraft to the Pentagon, and has agreed to provide large numbers of Farsi interpreters, in the event of a confrontation with Iran. Some of those interpreters, according to a well-informed source inside Sharon's inner circle, are to be deployed to air bases in Great Britain, indicating that the Tony Blair government in London is once again on board for an Anglo-American military adventure in the Persian Gulf, despite the ongoing deepening quagmire in Iraq.

And Israeli tank units have been redeployed to the north of Israel, in preparation for possible near-term actions against Syria, the source added. The source noted that any military action against Syria would have to occur prior to the end of November, when the rainy season begins, making both ground and air operations almost impossible."'

Its called "BALKANIZATION" make certain every individual gets it right....'
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/balkanization.html

'"The arrest of two British agents disguised as Shiite “terrorists” with a car full of explosives in Basra suggests that British occupation forces may be involved in carrying out “false flag” terror bombings in Iraq in order to advance the Zionist strategy of balkanizing the Middle East. Two British agents from the Special Air Service (SAS) or a branch organization of the special forces, disguised as members of the Mehdi Army of the Shiite rebel cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, were caught in a car loaded with explosives after shooting and killing Iraqi police and civilians in Basra on Sept. 19.

Unable to secure the release of the two disguised terrorists from the local police, British forces took extraordinary action and bulldozed the police compound and jail and freed them. Across Iraq, a wave of unclaimed car bombings has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of Iraqis in the past month, while thousands of innocent civilians have perished in similar senseless bombings in the two-and-a-half years since the Anglo-American occupation of the country began. These terror attacks benefit the Israelis as they create the appearance of widespread sectarian violence in order to facilitate the plan to break Iraq into three ethnic statelets."'

'Move Able-Danger forward full speed and expose to the world government & national CIA the truth about Traitor-Downing Street Gate. Its time to take down Mr. Sinister.....'

[Media_Lies_Daily]

92. I agree with most of what you have to say except for one thing....

...the NeoCon Junta's dictatorship began on December 13, 2000, with the assistance of the U. S. Supreme Court.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

96. They WANT civil unrest Here- Martial Law Here-Permanent Chimp here-and

all political opposition will be rounded up as they hurt our "war effort"-
no elections
- permanent chimp-
-that is at least for a while--
until we take a BIG fall when the Free World steps in and removes our capability to threaten World stability.

And somehow I think A Chimp with a football is a scary thing.

If he's about to take a fall you can bet he'll attempt to take the entire earth down with him...
:nuke:

[EVDebs]

126. Sounds like Operations Cable Splicer and Garden Plot to me

The 'camp grounds' are all ready and 'in place', just need to round up the 'disaparacidos' and suspend the Constitution, or was that suspend the Constitution first and THEN round up the Greens, Dems, progressives...?

[robertpaulsen]

130. One more equation to throw into your great analysis: Syria.

If we conduct air strikes on Iran, either through proxy (Israel) or going it alone, here is another aspect of the retaliation we will face:

Joint Iran/Syria defense pact (If one country is attacked, the other will come to their aid militarily)

Iran and Syria Confront US With Defense Pact
by Ewen MacAskill in Beirut and Duncan Campbell


Iran and Syria heightened tension across the Middle East and directly confronted the Bush administration yesterday by declaring they had formed a mutual self-defense pact to confront the "threats" now facing them.

The move, which took the Foreign Office by surprise, was announced after a meeting in Tehran between the Iranian vice-president, Mohammed Reza Aref, and the Syrian prime minister, Naji al-Otari.

"At this sensitive point, the two countries require a united front due to numerous challenges," said Mr Otari.

more...

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0217-02.htm

IRAN, SYRIA ENTER MUTUAL DEFENSE PACT
Same story, but with this scary * quote:

Addressing the question of a potential nuclear Iran at a news conference on Thursday, Bush shied away from ruling out an Israeli offensive strike.

"If I was the leader of Israel and I listened to some of the statements by the Iranian ayatollahs about... the security of my country, I'd be concerned about Iran having a nuclear weapon as well... And, in that Israel is our ally, in that we've made a very strong commitment to support Israel, we will support Israel if their security is threatened."

more...

http://www.icej.org/cgi-local/view.cgi?type=headline&artid=2005/02/18/650076054



That's what I see happening. We (U.S. & Israel) conduct air strikes, Syria and Iran retaliate. This occurs before October 2006, * then goes to Congress saying he HAS to get their authorization for a ground invasion, after all, they're already attacking us, are we just going to CUT and RUN? He'll put Congress in the same election year bind they were in back in 2002.

[Tom Joad]

34. Never doubt Bush & Co willingness to begin a nightmare...

haven't they already?

[Chicago1]

38. PLEASE EMAIL THIS TO YOU REPS & ASK FOR HELP

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, email this around to the various reps in Congress. We can't allow them to attack Iran.



START THE REVOLUTION!!!!

[BeHereNow]

47. Along with my letter to Santa?

LOL!
What reps?
Are you referring to the corporate owned piggies
masquerading as representatives of the people?
:banghead:
BHN

[AgadorSparticus]

132. ROFL! omg, TOO funny!!!....letter to santa.....that's pretty good....

:spray:

[nicknameless]

39. (Issue #1) Where is the Congressional declaration of War on Iran?

(Issue #2) Iran is closely allied with China, which pretty much *owns* us, due to BushCo economic insanity.
Does he really want to risk pissing China off?

[EVDebs]

42. What is Iran's "Order of Battle" and are they insane...

Iranian Military Power: Capabilities and Intentions

by Michael Eisenstadt

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/templateC04.php?CID=30

""The backbone of Iran's strategic missile force consists of 200-300 North Korean produced SCUD-B and -C missiles (with ranges of 320 km and 500 km respectively) and 200 or more Chinese CSS-8 missiles (with a range of 150 km). These are armed with conventional and perhaps chemical warheads. Iran's missiles can reach major population centers in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and the smaller Arab Gulf states. In addition, Iran is funding North Korea's development of the Nodong-1 missile, which -- with its 1,300-km range -- will be able to strike Israel. The project is reportedly plagued with technical and financial problems, however, and it may be a year or more before the missile attains operational status and is transferred to Iran.""

The Nodong-1 (yes, Comedy Central and the NSA, if you're paying attention) oddly scares the pants off everyone in the region. Missile accuracy and delivery systems landbased and potentially seabased via submarine reignite Cold War scenarios which the US can potentially deal with "pre-launch"

[daleo]

45. FWIW, I have read that he works for a pretty pro-war think tank

So, I would be careful not to accept his writings uncritically. That being said, I wouldn't necessarily discount his information either.

[EVDebs]

46. I'm only out to "buy time". If you can't deliver the goods and sanctions

are the only option you know is coming, the Russian's offer of processing and building an Iranian nuclear power generating system begins to look better and better. Iranians aren't totally loonytunes (despite the oral flatulence of the new guy -- can't spell it, Ahmadinajahd (?)).

For sure it looks like Eisenstadt's work is neocon. But Vulcans have been seeing only military options. So have the 'neocon Vulcan' Mullahs.

I imagine Iran was watching the military defeat on the battlefield of the Taliban with sharp eyes. The US Navy's capabilities are not to be UNDER-estimated either. A little clear thinking by the Iranians should part the curtains on a vista of unforeseen opportunities in the field of diplomacy, provided toleration and moderate clear thinking are allowed to flourish.

(How's my 'diplo-speak' ?)

BTW, the Chinese want a source of oil for the next thirty or so years--knowing that oil is only a temporary source of fuel. The world has only 1 trillion barrels of oil reserves left. At a current rate of 85 million barrels a day consumed, and with China wanting more along with India et al, the rate is estimated to reach 120 million barrels per day. That leaves about 27 years (more likely less) of oil left. China needs an ally capable of buying her good along with providing the knowhow to produce cleaner sources of energy; the US fits that bill better than the Iranians in the long run.

But like Keynes said, 'In the long run, we're all dead'. I'd just like to see more deaths from natual causes, not from military madness.

[daleo]

49. I think an attack on Iran would be a widescale disaster

Nobody knows where it might lead - as you say, China wants oil too and wouldn't take kindly to the middle east becoming a U.S. possession. I don't doubt the U.S. military could do lots of damage, and maybe even destroy the Iranian military without enormous U.S. losses. But holding all that territory is another thing, as is getting the oil stateside.

I think the Iranians might be wise to take up Russia on their fuel reprocessing offer. It would throw Bush's war justification off, and cement their relations with Russia, a useful counterweight. But when religion and nationalism are predominant, all this may be wishful thinking.

[EVDebs]

113. So, China continues to finance US debt and pay for Iraq, while dealing

with Iran...who wants what ? A real nuclear program for energy or to destroy Israel ?

Very circular dealings going on right now. It's best to keep the pot stirring rather and let the final implications sink in with the Tehran crowd. Do most Iranians go along with their fearless leader ? In the US we here surely don't follow Bush blindly (although Congress might).

[HuffleClaw]

60. if there was a terror attack and iran was blamed

bush could get carte blanche in about five minutes. but i think he'd be likely to act WITHOUT any official authorization as he feels his 'presidential powers' are pretty much limitless.

[EVDebs]

127. The congressional resolution posted on the WH website says this

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.html

""SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) AUTHORIZATION. The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to


(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and
(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq.""

Take note, "...as HE determines to be necessary and appropriate...

Then * will tie Iran, Syria, _________ (fill in the blank). HE will then endrun Congress with their own resolution.

Congress created this mess by giving Bush what he wanted when he wanted it. It's up to this Republican Congress to show either restraint or to go along with Bush over whatever cliff he wants.

[DainBramaged]

48. Nixon 2.0 excuse for doing the Nuclear Cha Cha

[goforit]

51. Isn't it time?

[Julius Civitatus]

56. Of course! IT'S AN ELECTION YEAR!!!!

The thugs need a new distraction from their horrendous mismanagement of everything they touch. Plus they need a war to pin to their chest, and a reason to scream "TRAITOR" to every Democrat that dares criticize the golden monkey.

This is sick.

[HuffleClaw]

57. ok, i get it.

there will be a terra attack soon and guess who will be immediately blamed. then bush will act to 'defend freedom'. no going to the security council, no diplomacy, just an immediate (but pre-planned) air campaign. and damn the consequences.

[OKNancy]

58. Kick

:kick:

[progressivebydesign]

61. I don't believe it.

For once, I'm not going to believe what seems an inevitable move by the PNAC-driven government. According to John Snow, America is out of cash, we are sinking deeper into debt... China is NOT going to lend us more money so we can attack their new pal... That would be like punching your loan officer in the nose while they're holding the title to your house, AND asking for a home equity loan at the same time.

The economy, outside of the staggering debt, is showing signs to the average joe that it is perking up. Bush is TOO concerned about his image to do something so incredibly stupid and risk being any more unpopular. The unpopularity thing eats away at him... he can't stand it. His main focus is to not go down in history as the most hated president in history. If he has ANY control on anything anymore, I say it ain't gonna happen.

[Hyernel]

62. Israeli troops patrolling Tehran. Yeah...that'll go over well.

:eyes:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

93. That would be a little like Romanians in the Crimea during WWII.

[OKNancy]

64. another kick

:kick:

[norml]

65. 'United States planning a military strike against Iran'

Dec. 31, 2005 19:33 | Updated Dec. 31, 2005 19:53

'United States planning a military strike against Iran'

By JPOST.COM STAFF


The United States government reportedly began coordinating with NATO its plans for a possible military attack against Iran.

The German daily Der Spiegel collected various reports from the German media indicating that the North Atlantic Treaty Organization are examining the prospects of such a strike.

According to the report, CIA chief Porter Gus, in his last visit to Turkey on December 12, requested Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan to provide military bases to the United States in 2006 from where they would be able to launch an assault.

The German news agency DDP also noted that countries neighboring Iran, such as Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Oman, and Pakistan were also updated regarding to supposed plan. American sources sent to those countries apparently mentioned an aerial attack as a possibility, but did not provide a time frame for the operation.


snip


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1135696369601&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[phaseolus]

66. if this were just saber-rattling I might be okay with this

...since crazy theocratic loons seem to hold sway in Iran these days.

Unfortunately Bush's little Iraq caper has stretched our forces to the bone and damaged our credibility with the rest of the world. We don't have any sabers to rattle anymore. Betcha Iran just laughs at us....

[liberal N proud]

67. the bu4h regime is leading up to a strike on Iran,

They have been working on this for months and little things like Hurricanes and leaks of illegal activity keep getting in the way.
It is on the PNAC agenda so it is on the bu$h regime agenda, count on it. Bet on it.

[0007]

68. The Jerusalem Post? Hmmmmm.

If true this will be the second bad mistake we make.

[cal04]

76. Haaretz Report: U.S. preparing NATO for possible strike on Iran

Experts belief these reports are being deliberately leaked to advance the Bush Administration's psychological warfare against Iran, ahead of talks between Iran and European Union representatives that are to take place in an attempt to halt Iran's uranium enrichment efforts.

These talks will address Russia's suggestion that that the second and critical stage of uranium enrichment ? feeding gas into a centrifuge ? take place on Russian soil.

Iran announced a few days ago that it is willing to consider the suggestion, after initially rejecting it. Sergei Kirienko, Russia's atomic energy minister and former prime minister, is expected to arrive in Tehran at the beginning of the coming year.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/664518.html

[KamaAina]

69. Close the war. It's getting drafty in here!

No way we can continue to occupy Iraq AND invade its larger, stronger (i.e. no decade of UN sanctions), more militant neighbor Iran without bringing back the DRAFT.

[occuserpens]

71. Putting long story short

Khomeinists won't wink, period.

http://inplainview.us.tt/newsWorldMEIran.htm

[lovuian]

72. We are in Syria and Israel is in Lebanon and Iran is the next

prize... I just know China is not going to like this...

[closeupready]

73. An invasion of Iran would be disastrous for our relations with

countries in the region; don't forget that Iran was once known as Persia, and historic and cultural links between Persia and many countries in that region are very long and strong, even still now.

[NativeTexan]

75. Countries in THAT region.....

already hate us because we are embedded on their holy ground in Saudi Arabia, or they love us because we feed the royal families by buying their oil at inflated prices.

I just never could believe that Dumbass Dubya used the "immediate danger to the U.S." argument for Iraq, when there wasn't one, and can't say why IRAN wasn't on the head of that list instead!

But if we bomb Iran, the ramifications will be hard, dark and serious....and more than a bit frightening to the rest of the world.

[OKNancy]

77. kick it again

[RamboLiberal]

79. 'United States planning a military strike against Iran'

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1135696369601

The United States government reportedly began coordinating with NATO its plans for a possible military attack against Iran.

The German newspaper Der Tagesspiegel collected various reports from the German media indicating that the North Atlantic Treaty Organization are examining the prospects of such a strike.

According to the report, CIA chief Porter Gus, in his last visit to Turkey on December 12, requested Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan to provide military bases to the United States in 2006 from where they would be able to launch an assault.

The German news agency DDP also noted that countries neighboring Iran, such as Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Oman, and Pakistan were also updated regarding the supposed plan. American sources sent to those countries apparently mentioned an aerial attack as a possibility, but did not provide a time frame for the operation.

[PDJane]

80. Scott Ritter

has been saying so for at least a year........and I tend to believe him.

[bluestateguy]

81. Taking bets for 2007

Not in an election year, but we'll hear some of the drumbeat in 2006.

I can't wait to see the looks on these College Republicans when they start getting their draft notices.

[existentialist]

86. Frist editorial

For what its worth, I know that the Rapid City Journal today ran an editorial by Senator Frist wherein he strongly stated that we had to deal with Iran's nuclear threat, and we had to do so very soon.

I didn't read the whole thing, and I don't know that he explicitly called for war if necessary, but I know that the tone of the first paragraph lead me to infer that he was ratcheting up the propaganda a few notches.

[RamboLiberal]

82. 'United States planning a military strike against Iran'

This thread has been combined with another thread.

Click here to read this message in its new location.

[Octafish]

83. World War III

These neocon turdballs have put our armed forces in peril and our national security in serious jeopardy.

If attacked, the Iranians will react like angry hornets. Most of our combat troops are within striking range of hostile ground forces.

To protect them, the Bush Gang would go nuke. Once the first mushroom cloud rises, the Pakistanis, the Chinese and the Rooskies won't be far behind.

The only ones who will benefit from nuclear war are the ultra rich and the ultra powerful. They have their secure, undisclosed locations and jungle and mountain redoubts for protection.

The rest of us are shit out of luck. And Bush knows that.

[ckramer]

84. You are right

there are no mountains in Iraq.

There were going to be a draft if Iran war was to break out.

Russia and China might be supporting the Iranians, and then the war escalated to WW III.

Oh my god! Bush is crazy.

[Octafish]

90. Bush is nuts.

That's the nicest thing I've ever written about the crazy monkey.

Here are the opinions of a couple of intel pros:

It's More Important Than Halting Nuclear Proliferation

Let's Stop a US/Israeli War on Iran

By BILL and KATHLEEN CHRISTISON
Former CIA analysts

The peace movements of the entire world should be in crisis mode right now, working non-stop to prevent the U.S. and Israel from starting a war against Iran. (See the James Petras article in CounterPunch on December 24, 2005 titled Iran in the Crosshairs for the best summary of the present situation.) The reckless and unnecessary dangers arising from such a war are so obvious that one wonders why normal political forces in the two aggressor countries -- both of whom love to glorify themselves as democracies -- would not prevent such a war from happening.

But the "normal political forces" in both the U.S. and Israel have become badly distorted. Democracy has been seriously undermined in both. The cowboy-like personalities and aggressive tendencies of both countries' leaders tend to feed on each other. Domestic political difficulties and coming elections in both countries probably add to the macho inclination of the ruling elites to use force to remove any problems facing them. The glue binding these tendencies together is the ever-strengthening institutional link between defense establishments and military-industrial complexes in both countries, as well as, in the U.S, the growing power and influence of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) over both major political parties. The entire mix increases the probability, against all common sense, that this absurd war will actually happen.

Nothing else more dangerous to the world, to the Middle East, to the oppressed Palestinians, or to the true interests of the United States is happening today -- anywhere. Americans who do not want an eruption of a new world war, started by our own government, ought to be strongly lobbying the Bush administration and all members of Congress against supporting any military action by the U.S. and Israel against Iran. Globally, people who oppose such a war should be lobbying their own governments in similar fashion.

CONTINUED...

http://www.counterpunch.org/christison12292005.html

[ckramer]

85. Only thing I'm not sure is if the ultra rich are benefiting from the

mushroom clouds. Most likely they will not. They are going to die with rest of us.

[Octafish]

91. Berlusconi built a secret tunnel getaway...

Here's what one modern Italian fascist is doing...

Opponents shaken and stirred at Berlusconi's 'James Bond' tunnel

By Peter Popham in Rome
28 May 2004

President George Bush, who flies to Italy next Friday to mark the 60th anniversary of the country's liberation from the Nazis, may be the first VIP to enjoy a massive expansion of facilities at the Italian prime minister Silvio Berlusconi's holiday home on the island of Sardinia. Protected by coastguards, labourers have been working against the clock to finish a tunnel which will give visitors high security access to La Certosa, Mr Berlusconi's 47-acre estate.

Described as the "James Bond tunnel" because of its resemblance to a tunnel in the film The Spy Who Loved Me, the prime minister's tunnel is said to be equipped with a lift that will deposit visitors inside the villa. The tunnel, which local media only learnt about this week, is nearing completion and major construction activity has shifted to a 400-seat amphitheatre being constructed of pink-veined orange granite, a step away from the small castle in which Mr Berlusconi accommodates the bodyguards who escort him on his morning walks.

Italian government officials will neither confirm nor deny that Mr Bush plans to visit La Certosa. Carlo Giovanardi, Minister for Relations with Parliament, said of the tunnel: "It is just a protected mooring for the embarkation of small boats, with an underground passage. The works have been kept secret for obvious reasons of security."

SNIP...

Mr Berlusconi bought the first seven hectares of La Certosa20 years ago from another old friend, Flavio Carboni, who this year went on trial in Rome, accused with others of murdering Roberto Calvi, the banker found hanging underneath London's Blackfriars Bridge in 1982.

CONTINUED...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1693190

Most important: Happy New Year to You and Yours, ckramer!

[ckramer]

95. Thank you Octafish...Same to you and all DUers!!!

Happy new year!

[wordpix]

124. interesting re: Bush-Berlusconi cronyism conected to criminals who murder

[pro_blue_guy]

87. Oh God.

That is scary. I hope this does not happen; but if it does, I certainly hope they do not institute a military draft. I am in college trying to earn a degree to make a living and have a good life; as are others. I have too much to live for. I wish the men and women in the military (as well as their families and friends) that they would never have to prepare for another war. But with King George and his majority of congressional jesters ruling our country; anything is possible (accept for common sense and decency).


Look out America and the world; these are scary times. Save us all.

[Olney Blue]

98. Your post makes me feel hopeful....

I am alot older than you, but I am so happy to see someone
your age engaged in looking at the big picture.

And you are right- its your future (and my grandkid's future) that is being
squandered by this disaster of an administration.

[Clara T]

88. There will be aerial bombings

So now we know: Next time the fire will come in Iran. The blow will be delivered by proxy, but that will not spare the true perpetrator from the firestorm of blowback and unintended consequences that will follow. Even now, the gruesome deaths of many innocent people in many lands are growing in futurity's womb.

The Rubicon of the new war was crossed on Oct. 27. Oddly enough for this renewal of the ancient enmity between the heirs of Athens and Persia, the decisive event occurred on the edge of the Arctic Circle, at the Plesetsk Cosmodrome, where a Russian rocket lifted an Iranian spy satellite, the Sinah-1, into orbit. This launch, scarcely noticed at the time, has accelerated the inevitable strike on Iran's nuclear facilities: Israel is now readying an attack for no later than the end of March, The Sunday Times reports.

The order, from embattled Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, puts Israel's special forces at the "highest stage of readiness" for the strike. While Iran's plan to begin enriching uranium -- which will give it the capability of building a nuclear bomb -- is the precipitating factor, the budding Iranian space program is a "point of no return" for Sharon, and that is what is driving the actual timing of the strike. The Sinah-1 is just the first of several Iranian satellites set for Russian launches in the coming months.

Thus the Iranians will soon have a satellite network in place to give them early warning of an Israeli attack, although it will still be a pale echo of the far more powerful Israeli and American space spies that can track the slightest movement of a Tehran mullah's beard. What's more, late last month Russia signed a $1 billion contract to sell Iran an advanced defense system that can destroy guided missiles and laser-guided bombs, the Sunday Times reports. This too will be ready in the next few months.

http://chris-floyd.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=345&Itemid=1

Consider: The cruise missile comes in at $1 billion per. Need for new inventory must be created.Supply and demand. Must create demand. Shelf life isn't forever and the US has never failed to use the wicked things. There are numbers in the warehouse itching for a launch. The Iranian bourse is set to kick in. Oil is tight. Natural gas is getting even tighter and Iran is really loaded in both.

US is lead by psycopathic war freaks. Iran is lead by what seems to be at the least a megalomaniac. Israel is led by war hawks. Everybody is on pins and needles. Children are dying daily at the hands of the warlords. Only a global mass uprising can stop these lunatics. Do you see? The world is waiting. Count me in.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

94. Preemptive nuclear strike. Think about it. The NeoCons have been....

...preparing us for this eventuality for quite some time.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

97. The Free World will not tolerate that- We will be dealt with swiftly-

the Free World will step in to remove our capabilities--
or...it's the end of this planet- a Chimp with a football is...

deadly
:nuke:

[Pavulon]

108. Only

The Russians have an arsenal capable of rendering that kind of strike. They have no interest in a global exchange of nuclear weapons. We have no need either.

IF we struck Iran there is no need to use nuclear weapons to destroy their nuclear facilities, or their ability to function.

In reality this is a BS story and the US is probably not gearing up to attack Iran.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

114. I only said "if" we pre-empt a nuke the world will not tolerate it -n/t

[Olney Blue]

100. And why are we hearing about this in the German media?

Where is our media?

[Psephos]

102. It's Der Spiegel - not exactly a fount of circumspection these days

but a useful tool for someone who needs a megaphone for a little saber rattling.

This whole thread is hilarious. We can't scrape up enough troops for Iraq and everyone's dead convinced the US is planning to invade Iran? LOL.

Make that a double LOL. We couldn't even invade New Orleans after Katrina.

Peace.

[allemand]

103. They will rely on Iran's opposition forces, an embargo and US air strikes

to bring about regime-change in Iran.

As Nathan Guttman wrote in yesterday's Jerusalem Post:

THOUGH SYRIA is considered by the US to be less of a problem than Iran, the international community seems to have much more potential leverage on Teheran than it does on Damascus. Iran is vulnerable to economic sanctions, for one thing. And regime-change in Iran - due to strong internal forces of opposition - is actually a possibility. Furthermore, Iran is seen as the region's most pressing threat right now.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1135696363572&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter

Former U.S. Justice Department prosecutor and intelligence expert (and neocon) John Loftus also was quite outspoken earlier in the month:

The intelligence expert, who has contacts in the Pentagon, says that the strategy is not for the US to actually invade Iran, but to affect a regime-change. "One of the intelligence agencies, which shall remain nameless, asked me to hold a conference of dissident groups in Iran. We are holding that conference and getting ready for regime-change." (...)

"The aircraft carriers are there to defend the picket-line of ships that will place a blockade on the Straits of Hormuz," Loftus said. "Ninety percent of Iran's economy is based on oil exports – so a blockade of as little as three weeks can cause their economy to collapse, the people to rise up and the mullahs to be overthrown."
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=94732

The conference will be held February 17-20 in Arlington, VA.
http://intelligencesummit.org/

[nolabels]

104. Ha, ha, let me get more cynical

What ever these monkey fucks do in the vain attempt to save their contemptuous legacy will just be more icing on the cake. Not surprised and fully expect them to throw out that last joker.

Cheerio mates :beer:

[TankLV]

125. Nukes have a way of expanding capability with FEW additional men.

Funny how that works.

Overextended you say - you're right.

Simple (Insane) Solution: Nukes.

We are is SERIOUS deep doodoo.

[MetsMatt]

105. Iran predictions

I think this is another non-story. As I recall from reading this board last spring there were plenty of people who insisted the invasion of Iran was going to begin in June, all because Scott Ritter said so. Now its unnamed "NATO intelligence sources" in the German media. I'll wait for something more reliable.

[bemildred]

106. Yes.

:thumbsup:

[Pavulon]

107. Sound and Fury...

We probably have invasion plans for every country on earth sitting around. This story rolls around a few times a year and nothing comes of it.

An Israeli strike against nuclear facilities would not be a big surprise.

[SOS]

110. (oil) mission (almost) accomplished

[norml]

118. Last Chance to Spare Iran: You Can Do It

Last Chance to Spare Iran: You Can Do It


by Dr. Mary Maxwell,

January 1, 2006
GlobalResearch.ca




According to Scott Ritter, we Americans have been sending aerial vehicles (unmanned drones) into the Iranian hinterland for some months now. And, according to Kurt Nimmo, the CIA has put Turkey on notice for “the possible US air operation against Iran and Syria.” The fact that our newspapers and Network television refuse to tell us about this does not absolve us of responsibility. You must, and I repeat, must, do all you can to stop this.

Reasons to Spare Iran

Why should we act decisively to stop the Pentagon from bombing Iran? Of the following five reasons,

I cannot say which is the most important – they seem equally to merit priority. Still, for practical reasons, one can be singled out as the absolute top priority. Namely, the US should not engage in nuclear war – whether in Iran or anywhere else in the world. True, the US has already used bunker buster weapons and munitions with depleted uranium in Iraq, but nuclear weapons should NEVER be used. We must draw the line even against so-called ‘mini nukes’.

Four specific reasons why we should protect Iran are:

Quite simply, a consensus has been reached since 1945 that crimes against humanity are off-limits (not a bad consensus when you think of it – we may be on the receiving end someday)

Iran should be respected for its cultural achievements that date back to the Persian empire, and which were appropriated liberally by European civilizations (ah, Persian carpets…ah, glazed tiles)

‘Regime change’ sparks recollection of the fact that the CIA already changed Iran’s regime once – in 1953. It helped overthrow the popular leader Mossadegh, and then trained the horrific secret service, SAVAK, for the Shah

We Americans would be wrecking our own future, and our self-esteem, by engaging in such a war


snip


http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=MAX20060101&articleId=1699

[Up2Late]

119. Anyone have the original from the "German Media?" UPI can NOT be...

...trusted not to distort this story into sounding much worst than it actually is, they do it all the time.

[allemand]

120. I already posted it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2013189&mesg_id=2013241

[Up2Late]

131. Thanks, just as twisted and distorted as I suspected.

UPI Sucks and can never be trusted when they do these 2nd hand reports on what other news sources said.

[oblivious]

133. I think this is the original Der Spiegel article (translation a bit rough)

I haven't see any translations of the DDP article by Udo Ulfkotte that spawned this der spiegel article.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11373.htm

[Koeln]

135. german media

it is interesting that you can only find an article on the english version of der Spiegel.

there is nothing on the german site and i could not find anything in other german media like sueddeutsche or faz.

The only thing i can say for sure is that there will be no support for Mr. Bush in this war from my country. But i still believe that even mr bush and his (how can i call such people) "friends" aren´t so stupid to attack iran in the present situation but who knows

[oblivious]

136. I can't find the original Udo Ulfkotte article anywhere on the net.

If you could find it in German and give a brief explanation I'd sure appreciate it.

It was apparantly in the German Depeschenservice, also called the DDP in this article:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11373.htm

[allemand]

137. I think this is the original article:

Washington bereitet Verbündete
auf Luftangriff gegen Iran vor

Von Udo Ulfkotte
http://linkszeitung.de/content/view/5849/45/

It is largely identical to the Spiegel article.

[oblivious]

138. Thanks for that.

[Koeln]

139. german media

DDP is a new german news agency like Reuters.
I visit the homepage of DDP and you can not find articles there you have to be a customer to use their services.

Jürgen Gottschlich seems to be a serious journalist. Since 1998 he works in turkey for the TAZ ( a very left newspaper in germany) but also for Spiegel online. he was one of the founders of the TAZ newspaper. The TAZ is known for very very critical comments about the bush administration.


Searching in Goolge i found several german articles all with nearly the same words like the Spiegel article you already know.

It is really interesting that is harder to find a german source than a source in english.

[Koeln]

140. german media

As allemand posted i could also not find an article from Udo Ulfkotte but the reason is that you have to buy these articles from DDP so other papers can publish them. That´s why you can find nearly the same words.

If you google Udo Ulfkotte you will find that he seems to be a credible source because of his backround and the books he wrote. he is a terrorist and islam expert his main work is about the middle east and secret services. He teaches counter espionage ( is that the right english word for Spionageabwehr) a tht university of lüneburg. The FAZ where he was chief Jouranlist (redakteur)
is a very serious and famous newspaper in germany.

Sorry i have not much time so some words might not be correct

[oblivious]

141. Thanks for the background and welcome to DU.

Yes I thought he must be well-connected and well-respected or his article wouldn't have got so much attention.

It's nice to see you on Democratic Underground.

[allemand]

122. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Peter Pace also to visit Turkey

according to a (very) Kurdish report:

After the chiefs of FBI and CIA, chief of general staff of USA is also coming to (Turkey)

ANKARA (01.01.2006)- After the coming of the chiefs of FBI and CIA, Secretary General of NATO and chief of General Staff of Israel Dan Hanutz in the last one month, chief of General Staff of USA Peter Pace is also coming to Turkey. It is expected that he will be in Ankara before Foreign Minister of USA Condolezza Rice. With Pace some of regional questions, especially Iran, will come into order.

Ankara entertained front names in the security and defence arguments of the world in the last month. The chiefs of FBI and CIA, Secretary General of NATO and chief of General Staff of Israel Dan Hanutz. After these visits, Pace and Rice will come within January.

It is learned that Pace will visit General Staff of Turkey Hilmi Ozkok and Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul.

In the negotiations with Pace, they will emphasize on the matters of Iran and Syria and also they emphasize on the last situation in Iraq and KONGRA-GEL.

More:
http://www.kurdishinfo.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=5068

[Clara T]

143. kick for info

[Name removed]

142. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gunsaximbo]

144. something needs to be done with guy

Bush will probably get us into another war and this time we'll see plenty of dead Americans.

Russia and China have been actively selling their war wares to Iran for years and russia has pledged to support Iran if the Us attacks.

Is this what America wants? Do we want another war? Do we want a war with Russia? Do we want a war with China? Do we really want a war with Iran?

What is this war going to be about? Nukes? God almighty! Bush is a lunatic who needs to be locked away. Cheney is a sociopath who needs to be locked up.

Something has to be done.

[Wise Doubter]

145. If I remember correctly, we forcasted a draft, and attack in `06

maybe on 06/06/06 ? Hmmmm ?? :evilfrown: