Catholics ignoring Vatican edicts, survey shows

[lovuian]

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/redir.php?jid=6d19b6d3842cb299&cat=11caa946bf11fe44

Nearly 90% of Italians call themselves Catholics, but more than two-thirds favour legal recognition for unmarried couples, according to a study that sociologists say is evidence that Italians tailor their religion to their lifestyles.
The survey released by the research institute Eurispes, based in Rome, also found that 78% of Italian Catholics believe divorced people who remarry should receive communion.

The poll also revealed that just a third attend mass at least once a week.

more...
Home of Rome...

[Canuckistanian]

1. Why, that's a Schism!

Start the Auto-da-Fé!

[anotherdrew]

8. who get's to be the anti-pope? how about Roberto Benigni?

[Canuckistanian]

9. Nah, he's Italian

It's like matter and antimatter. So, the anitchrist would have to be from Polynesia or maybe Tierra del Fuego or something.

Besides, I like Benigni. He's quirky, but lovable.

[Pirate Smile]

2. So it isn't just the American Catholics. Color me completely NOT

surprised.

I mean either Catholics have gotten really good at the rhythm method or we are All using birth control. You don't see many of those 8, 10, 12 kid families anymore (except Mel Gibson). Hmmm, I wonder which it is true.

edit to add - I'm Catholic and everybody I know who is Catholic uses birth control.

[napi21]

5. I can tell you my whole relationship is Catholic, and they ALL used BC.

Mr included! This goes back many years too. I'm 62 now, and I used BC pills back when I was 25! We all have to make our own determination on what's right and wrong. I personally would NEVER have an abortion because I believe that IS taking a life, but I used BC because I didn't believe it is doing anything but enabeling a family to responsibly care for the niumber of children they can afford.

I know my church doesn't agree with that, but I dissagree with them on this one.

I can guarantee you, every other female relative I have has done the same.

[Pirate Smile]

6. I know. I'm Catholic. Birth control - yes or no - was never even

an issue, nor was it to anyone I know.

That is the most ridiculous edict (IMO) that they have. No one follows it and they must know it but this is a big part of the problem with having a male only, celibate (supposedly) clergy.

I don't think there is any hope that they will enter reality under the new Pope, which is too bad.

[KitSileya]

16. I heard this anecdote once about Catholics and BC.

This was while the pope was still John Paul, and he was on one of his trips to South America. I think it was in Bogotà there was a rush at the health clinics a couple of days before he came, of women who wanted their IUDs removed. Day after he left, there was a rush at the health clinics of women who wanted IUDs put in.

There are few Catholics in Western countries who follow these edicts. It's worse in third world countries, because often the only health care the population has is run by Catholic charities. You're not going to get condoms at a health clinic run by Catholic nuns in Africa. The more's the pity.

[hedgehog]

25. Umm, that's not what I've heard.

The bishops say one thing, but the sisters go their own way.

[KitSileya]

27. Really?

I recently saw a documentary on the Church and contraception which visited three parts of the world, the Phillipines, Nicaragua, and a country in Africa and saw how the Church handled the issue in the field. It wasn't pretty, I can tell you that. The nuns were teaching people that condoms didn't protect against aids because there were microscopic holes in the rubber that the virus could get through, Nicaraguan bishops refused to give 8-year olds abortion after rape, and in the Phillipines, mothers with 6 children living in one-room cottages were encouraged to have more kids to strenghten the nation.
I am a practicing Catholic myself, but the way the Church is going about sex and contraception is a disgrace, and, I firmly believe, against the teachings of Jesus. The only saving grace they have is that they do believe in pro-life all the way, from conception to grave. They're not as hypocritical about it as the right-wind fundies in America, who have no trouble leaving kids to die and killing criminals.

[hedgehog]

28. I'm just going by what I've heard

My guess is that it varies from place to place but I've heard more than once that the missionary sisters are a lot more practical than the bishops.

[KitSileya]

31. I really hope so.

But again, I think that's Western influence - many missionary sisters are from Western countries. African sisters educated in Africa, on the other hand, often don't have access to other views. And with the unholy trinity of the Catholic Church, Muslim countries, and the US conspiring at every international meeting on health and reproduction, spreading the truth is hard.

[SquireJons]

32. I too have heard this

At least a couple of stories on NPR have highlighted the differences between Vatican edicts and the work being done at the local level. While I'm sure that many catholic missionaries are stuck in church dogma, there are still a lot of them that do what makes most sense for their congregations. In both Africa and Latin America, the local priests and nuns have taken a far more pragmatic approach to problems of poverty, STD's and overpopulation. Just don't look for the catholic church to talk about it.

[SharonAnn]

22. The large families in my area are Mormons. We're no longer the

"large family" religion. I'm the oldest of eight. I have 65 first cousins.

We're a dying species, no more "large family Catholics".

[hedgehog]

30. I just smile every week at Church because people think I'm a

good Catholic. I have 6 kids, so little do they know that I believe in birth control. I just happen to like kids. I guess they haven't noticed that I don't have 7, or 8 or 9 .....

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

3. I'm not surprised.

I studied a little bit in Italy in early 2003. The Italians were very open about being a country that loves the Pope and loves the Church, but not really listening to what it said. They said they were good Catholics, but they did what they felt was right

[kskiska]

4. Catholics ignoring Vatican edicts, survey shows

Nearly 90% of Italians call themselves Catholics, but more than two-thirds favour legal recognition for unmarried couples, according to a study that sociologists say is evidence that Italians tailor their religion to their lifestyles.

The survey released by the research institute Eurispes, based in Rome, also found that 78% of Italian Catholics believe divorced people who remarry should receive communion.

The poll also revealed that just a third attend mass at least once a week.

more…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/italy/story/0,,1690588,00.html

[williesgirl]

7. I'm Catholoc, but the Church is so out of sync with it's members it's

ridiculous. If they'd ever let priests marry, they'd be so much better equipped to counsel parishioners and dioceses would be forced to begin to deal with reality. Church law is crap - don't see anything about birth control in the Ten Commandments. Same for meatless Fridays of long ago etc. A bunch of old white men trying to force their opinions on the rest of us. No wonder no one listens.

[lovuian]

10. I have relatives in German who what they call european catholics

they do what they want and go to church occasionally... they represent most of the german Catholics...

I can actually say the Conservative Catholics are out of step with the majority...

this poll reflects what the TRUe Catholic Church is...

[xchrom]

11. lol -- who knows the catholic church better than the italians?

they just take it with big loveable grain of salt. sea salt that is.

[JNelson6563]

12. Very common

I was a Catholic for probably the first 30-35 years of my life and I can tell you that many, many Catholics disregard a lot of stuff coming out of Rome. Birth control and marriage issues being the most disregarded of edicts.

Julie

[Tracer]

13. Cafeteria Catholics.

That's what they are called.

(Edited to add that I guess I'm a CC too).

[GoldenOldie]

14. Cafeteria Catholics

Are no different from all other protestant religions. You can walk into any protestant churchs of the same calling ie., Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran, etc., etc., within a mile from one another and you would think that the pastors and the congregation members were of totally different leanings.

Why does members of a particular faith travel miles beyond his neighborhood church or temple of his/her faith to attend another of the same faith? It is because he or she follows the pastor/minister/rabbi and their fellow congregation members who tend to be most like them.

Those who claim to wholeheartedly follow the church leadership only are lying to themselves. Why are those Catholics who claim total faithfulness to the rules of the Pope not having more than 2 or 3 children? The abstence/rythym method has never worked thus these Catholics should be having larger families?

[AngryOldDem]

15. Christ gave only two commandments

Love thy God with all thy might, heart, and soul; and love thy neighbor as thyself.

The rest, as they say, is commentary...and that definitely includes 99.9% of the blather that comes out of Rome.

Signed,
Moderately Devout Catholic

[SharonAnn]

23. I think it was a Jewish rabbi who said that. Hillel?

[megatherium]

29. Jesus was actually quoting the Hebrew scriptures.

Leviticus 19:18 contains the commandment to love your neighbor.

By the way, note that Jesus told his followers the parable of the Good Samaritan, in answer to the question of "who is my neighbor?" after Jesus reiterated this commandment. (Recall it was the Samaritan, a member of a despised minority group in ancient Israel, who took the trouble to help a Jew in distress.) I suspect that if Jesus told this parable today, it would be the parable of the Good Muslim, or the parable of the Good Gay Person.

[Bridget Burke]

17. Why is this LBN?

Yes, I know this story qualifies because of the date.

Many Good Catholics have always ignored certain teachings. Especially when dealing with matters the celibate male clergy just wouldn't understand.

The Italians do have a head-start on most other Catholics. Perhaps the Church will catch up, someday.

[Ilsa]

18. Last night, a representative from the Vatican was on MSNBC and

he denounced teaching Intelligent Design in Science classes. He said it's fine for philosophy/comparative religion classes, but it clearly isn't science.

I was pleased to hear this.

[hippiechick]

19. Does this mean the Church is out of step with reality,

... or that the followers are all 'willful sinners' and are headed straight to hell?

Just askin' ... :shrug:

[JVS]

20. Both!

[Chemical Bill]

21. How about the ones here that support the Iraq war? n/t

[SoCalDem]

24. That darned 30% seems to permeate every segment of society

:)

[hedgehog]

26. The Church is in a real bind

The hierarchy keeps appointing members of the old guard who are more and more out of touch with the laity.To top things off, by limiting their appointments to men of "orthodox beliefs", they are selecting incompetents. It seems that the more competent individuals tend to be more liberal. It's somewhat reminiscent of the state of our judiciary. We've got a Supreme Court rapidly filling with right leaning second rate hacks.