McCain slips into poll position over Clinton

[Judi Lynn]

McCain slips into poll position over Clinton

January 23, 2006
WASHINGTON: Republicans are warming to John McCain as the politician most likely to beat Hillary Clinton to the White House in 2008 and to clear the party of the taint of sleaze.

A poll last week showed Senator McCain could trounce Senator Clinton, the Democrat favourite, by 52 to 36. The 16-point lead revealed that he has a decisive advantage among independents and swing voters.

"The more scandal and corruption in Washington, the better it is for McCain. He is at a high point right now," said Chuck Todd, editor-in-chief of National Journal's Hotline news service, which commissioned the poll.

The Arizona senator's standing among Republican activists nose-dived after he was beaten by George W.Bush to the presidential nomination in a bitter race in 2000.
(snip/...)

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17904983%255E2703,00.html

[acmavm]

1. Dems better be jumping on this crap NOW. McCain is one of the biggest

phonies ever foisted on this country.

[catmother]

2. exactly. he had me fooled for a while. he's a hawk -- when asked

a few months ago how long he thought we would be in iraq he said "10-20 years, that's not bad". he also has a terrible temper. got so angry at a meeting one time that he passed out.

he scares the crap out of me. imagine him with his finger near the button.

edited for spelling: i meant iraq, not iran.

[bear425]

4. May be a Freudian slip, but I think you meant to say Iraq not Iran.

Although, either might be correct. :(

edit: spelling

[catmother]

8. deleted

[IndianaGreen]

33. Mc Cain is a hawk... and so is Hillary

They would both go to war over Iran, Syria, any "enemy of Israel," Venezuela, Bolivia, Cuba, etc.

They are both imperialists and advocates of their own flavor of neoliberalism.

Neither of them should be in the White House!

[catmother]

34. i agree. hillary is not my choice. but if she is the nominee i will

vote for her.

[IndianaGreen]

36. I will concentrate on my local Democrats

They are worth saving and fighting for. Hillary is just another imperialist neoliberal turd!

The American Left is in a time of opportunity and at the same time in a crisis of leadership. Recent events have changed the political landscape dramatically from what it was a year ago. The Iraq War, which is more obviously a war of profit and exploitation each day, has lost the support of the majority of Americans. Hurricane Katrina has ripped apart a city and an entire region, and the utterly botched response to it has laid bare the race and class divisions in American society and the increasingly crass corporatism rife in the government. Energy prices are ripping through record highs and threatening the existence of suburbia itself, as the rich get richer and the working class is slowly herded into the low-paying service industry. The Republican Party, long arrogant with power, is beleaguered by scandals among its top layers.

But the Democratic Party, long the graveyard of social movements, has failed to respond.

http://www.debstendency.org/

[wordpix]

46. If you get Hil, you get Bill back in WH. Great 2 for 1 deal. Let's not

overlook this fact. Also, no one is perfect and neither is a candidate.

[the5thmusketeer]

61. However, one of them will be.

[henslee]

3. Amen, he isa spineless,meglomancial tow the party line warthog.

And i hope i dont get flamed by any warthogs.

[reprobate]

5. And that's why we must have an alternative to Hillary DLC Clinton

[acmavm]

6. Wesley Four Star General and ex-Head of NATO Clark would do

nicely (in my humble opinion).

[AX10]

7. Agreed.

[xultar]

11. Agreed.

[catmother]

13. i like clark. i also like warner. maybe clark/warner or warner/clark

[drfresh]

18. Absolutely.

I'd also consider Gore or Feingold.

[catmother]

9. agreed. nt

[janx]

12. Even if she runs (which is still in question at this point),

there will be others in the primaries.

[VegasWolf]

10. McCain's position will increase as liberal anti-war protestors

increasingly vote 3rd Party. She seems as chicken-hawkish as McCain.

[acmavm]

14. The one damn thing you cannot say about McCain is that the man

is a Chicken-hawk. Nope. He served. And he did hard time in a North Vietnamese prison camp. Nope. That's one of his biggest selling factors. Not that he's a self-serving whore, not that he's not qualified for the job. The dumbshits who are chicken hawks will look at his military record and start drooling all over themselves.

[VegasWolf]

15. Yes. I agree completely. McCain is not a chicken-hawk, he served

with honor. My bad. Early Sunday morning.

:toast:

[acmavm]

16. That's okay. The guy is still slimier than pond scum. n/t

[catmother]

35. you're absolutely right. yes he was a war hero and suffered, but

that does not qualify him to be president.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

38. And most certainly doesn't prevent one from becoming a grade A asshole

later on.

[mitchum]

43. POW status is an occupational hazard when one's job is dropping death...

from above.

[alfredo]

17. McCain is hated by the Christian right and they control the

primaries. Also, McCain is not part of the Neo Conservative inner circle. Unless that has changed, he will not get support from the back room boys. Grassroots support he has, but look how much good that did Dean and a host of other maverick candidates. McCain is not from the old south, and they control the party.

[noahmijo]

22. exactly people forget what Rover did to McCain in '08

McCain is my statesman whether I like it or not. And the truth is back in 1999 if it were McCain VS Gore I would've voted for Gore but would've accepted McCain as my president with respect to the title.

Bush's cowardly, fallicious, and cruel attacks on McCain is what made me hate that little shit in the first place, and the neo-cons will do it again should McCain ever run.

McCain is not a christian (not to them anyway cause he's catholic) he's Irish, he doesn't claim god speaks through him, and if he has a bloodthirsty streak he hides it well.


Therefore there is no way half yahoos who make up this nation's population will ever vote for McCain.

[TheWraith]

25. Right on the money.

People here talk about McCain like he's a threat, but the man is what, 78 years old? And not popular with the fundies, AND not entirely popular with business. He may be the last scion of the Goldwater Republicans, but that doesn't make him a winner for office.

These polls here are about as relevant as polling Bill Clinton vs. Bob Dole 2008, since neither person is running.

[VegasWolf]

27. I don't know, I think Hillary has her beady eye on the prize! nt

:toast:

[jaxx]

28. He'll be 72 in 2008. Way too old to run.

He's a diversion. Dubya would never let him run after him......that's a love-hate relationship to say the least. No, look for someone who is in the loop now, who sucks up what the bushies say, and will prostitute himself/herself to keep the agenda alive. Condi........some say yes. It'll be someone of her ilk, who can lie with ease.

[wordpix]

49. I agree, McCain's time was back when he ran v. * McCain too old now

[alfredo]

30. He was born in 1936, and will be 72 come 2008.

Age could be a factor. You know he could have a good ten years in him, but will the voter think that.

When a person ages, their tolerance for bullshit lowers. Let's face it, the gold standard for bullshit is presidential politics. Will he have the will to do what it takes to run for president.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

65. their religion is republicanism first and christianity second

they'll make excuses and back a mccain or a giuliani if Limbaugh and FAUX tell them to

[bpilgrim]

19. the establishments wet dream Hillary -vs- McCain

they won't get enough of pushing this horse race, bet.

peace

[imlost]

20. Hillary will be the media's favorite

She will get a huge boost by them in the primaries.
Most people listen to the media and she will end up being the nominee.
.... we will be stuck with another 8 yrs of misery.

[MODemocrat]

42. Please explain this 8 years of misery to me

I truly don't understand why there is so much hatred on this Democratic board. Can't we all just support the candidate we want, and let the right-wingnuts flambast Hillary? :shrug:

[wordpix]

47. thank you, MODem, for being sensible

[AtomicKitten]

56. not many understand the loathing and lies about Hillary here at DU

The notion that she is a hawk and would invade other countries as president is such absolute nonsense, but it continues to be injected here at DU in the guise of reasonable discourse. She takes the brunt of every "yes" vote on the Iraq Resolution, a mistake to be sure, but she is singled out for condemnation.

Most of us understand that the democratic process of the primary will produce a candidate, and each of us can work our assess off for our candidate of choice. The real test of a true believer in democracy will come once a candidate is chosen and whether or not people have the integrity and maturity to pull up their socks and work to elect the Democratic nominee, whoever that may be.

On edit: I'm rooting for Al Gore.

[sandnsea]

60. Not everyone's a Democrat

There are many communists, socialists, anarchists, libertarian leftists, and greens. Then there's the RNC moles who pretend to be any variation of the above in order to freely attack and divide. Inside the DC beltway, they are also playing politics. Democratic consultants and strategists make the talk rounds pretending to support the entire party when they're often already working for a candidate. So it does get dicey around here, that's for sure.

[imlost]

62. My apology. There is no hatred here. Well, I do hate SUV's.

I don't dis-like Hillary, but I don't like her either.

What I meant to say is, Hillary cannot and will not beat McCain in a general election.
Then we will be stuck and have another miserable 8 years.

I will support any democratic candidate with my vote in 08, but if it's Hillary I will feel doomed, just like I felt about 04.

In the meantime I will not support Hillary as the candidate to be our representative for Democratic party.

She voted for IWR and in my opinion loves moving with the flow of whatever will get
her elected vs. what she believes in.
I feel the same way about many other current senators.
This is how I see it and don't tell me I can't express this on the DU.

[iamjoy]

21. Then We Must Expose Him Now

Or we could just wait for the Swift Boaters to do it.

But, I'd rather expose his butt kissing to Dubya than attack his war record, IMHO the latter is beyond the pale. I'm mixed about making an issue of his age/health.

We must start looking for every contradictory vote he has made and find a way to expose it.

[wordpix]

51. McCain did $omething $leazy in the '80's--publicly said he was sorry

I don't know what it was about, tho.

[lovuian]

23. This is a Republicans fairy tale

its News media BS...

[raysr]

24. "He's crazy and he screwed a black prostitute"

Let's use that against him, worked for * in 2000.

[nevergiveup]

26. The only factors that can stop McCain

from becoming president are his age and health. The press loves him and Republicans always unite in the end. He will say whatever needs to be said to placate the extreme right and in the general election Freepers will be running not walking to the polls to vote for him.

[MidwestTransplant]

29. Neither will be their party's nominee IMO

[progressivebydesign]

31. He looks unstable to me. Rove was right.

ANY man that would ACCEPT the complete and totaly trashing of his own wife and daughter, then EMBRACE the mofo that DID IT.. is not a well person. He is someone that will Do or Say ANYTHING to get elected. His own kids say he hates George Bush.. if I look at the creepy photo posted on this thread, then I'd say it's a love/hate thing. he grosses me out.

[agincourt]

32. If the GOP doesn't have confidence in theft,

They might run him with a real knuckledragger as a running mate. Al Quaida will just happen to off McCain in the first 6 months of his term. Timmy Russert, Chris Matthews, and Wolf Blitzer will sure scratch their heads, sure, sure, sure. Another war, more RW shit, Michael Moore killed the president, we need more powers to get terrorists. Same old shit, repeat, rinse.

[hollowdweller]

37. McCain, Powell, Rice are all ass kissers.

The thing the Dems need to do in 08 is just plaster that picture everywhere. That will be like the Jane Fonda/ John Kerry.

[MODemocrat]

39. I'm a Democrat, my vote will go to the DEMOCRATIC nominee

I have a certain amount of respect for John McCain, for he is a decent man, a patriotic man who tries very hard to uphold the constitutional rights for all. However, loyalty to my own party dictates who I vote for in the presidential election, and that will be whichever Democrat is nominated. They may not be a liberal (like myself), but, voting for a republican wouldn't solve anything. They're for sure not going to be moderate, let alone Liberal. I really want someone who will deal with the domestic problems in this country; not be dominated by never ending wars. :patriot: :patriot:

[IndianaGreen]

40. There are Republicans that will vote for the nominee no matter how Fascist

the nominee happens to be.

Do I sense a certain commonality in here?

[MODemocrat]

44. IndianaGreen, give me more credit than that

I have nothing in common with any fascist republican. and you want to take this out of context.
Our country has always suffered under the republican rule; hence, I do not vote republican. I'm not exactly a kid. Think old (73 years) but not senile. :dem:

[IndianaGreen]

45. Hi there, MODemocrat

Hillary will be as divisive as Hubert Humphrey was in 1968. We can post to our hearts' content what we think about 2008 and our attitudes towards a neoliberal imperialist becoming the Democratic standard bearer, but nothing we say in DU will change one simple fact: millions of antiwar Americans will never cast a vote for a candidate that will not bring the troops home immediately and unconditionally. Their numbers may be in the single digits, but in a close election their numbers will have an impact. There won't ever be another ABB grand coalition as it was in 2004. Too many people had to swallow very hard to vote for a Kerry. They won't ever do that again.

Now, I am sure that we will have some DUers that will take offense at what I just wrote. To them I will say that it doesn't matter what I said, and it doesn't matter what they or anyone else says, those antiwar voters will never vote for a another prowar candidate again. Prowar to them is anyone that will not end the war when they take the oath of office.

[MODemocrat]

53. IndianaGreen, thank you for making sense out of this

You're right on about antiwar Americans not casting a vote for a "war" candidate; I know that's how I feel. It's just that I'm afraid that if the republicans keep remaining in power, which it looks as if they will; that our domestic problems here at home will simply go unattended, and we will be involved in perpetual wars. At my age, I worry so much about the younger generation not knowing a beautiful America that I've known.:thumbsup: :hi:

[IndianaGreen]

63. The America that we grew up in no longer exists

Our Republic has been replaced by a fledging dictatorship. The attribute Commander-in-Chief, which is not a Constitutional office, has become an Americanized version of a German Fuehrer.

[dmallind]

57. But the inverse is far worse

Unfortunately there are MORE millions that will not vote for someone they perceive as weak or unable to "protect" America. Rational or not (and my vote of course is not), the millions that would NOT vote for an outright anti-war candidate far outweigh the inverse.

Yes support for the war is low, as it should be because it was a fustercluck of Rumsfeldian delight from day one, but the meme is out (and even accurate IMO) that abrupt withdrawal leads to chaos and eventual theocracy. Add to that the bogeyman of terrorism that of course would never be mentioned by Republicans (sarcasm alert), and a black and white anti-war candidate is a ticket to eight years of Frist or Brownback for sure.

You may be right that a perceived "hawk" is a ticket to the same destination, but there's more chance of the moderate masses supporting that "hawk" than any pure anti-war ideologue we could drum up, so at least the chance is there in that scenario.

[wordpix]

52. again, well said, I'm with you. The Dems have to come together as a team

They did a great job under Clinton. Too bad he couldn't keep his dick in his pants.

[MODemocrat]

54. He should have at least risen above that while president

Even though the republicans would have found something to impeach him for, he shouldn't have given the fodder to make it easy for them to do. Even then, the republicans felt that the Bush empire should have continued, and they simply didn't want anyone to stand in their way. They will continue to do whatever they can to keep one of the Bushes in line for their empire. It won't surprise me if Bush just bans elections; after all, who can stop him? So far, he's gotten away with literally shredding the constitution and the media just sweeps it under the rug.

We're dead where we sit, if we don't get this party organized, and soon.
:spank: :spank: :spank:

[cosmicdot]

41. dang, missed the '08 primaries and nominating conventions ...

so, who is Rupert Murdoch running in 2012?


who penned this 'article'? ... didn't see any name associated with it ... must've been written 'by committee'

McCain to cleanse the GOP of sleaze?
Clinton, the Democrat favourite?
... these are 'facts'? LOL

[Generator]

48. Crap, and I thought he was a married man

Yuck. Keep this guy off the poll and not on top.

[stevedeshazer]

50. Shouldn't it be "pole position?"

:evilgrin:

[Left Below]

55. I can't believe that no poster will acknowledge the obvious...

As slimy as McCain has become, he still has a far more favorable image to the great unwashed in the middle than Senator Clinton has.

All the e-mails and posts in the world won't change that fact.

[hollowdweller]

58. A non Washington Dem candidate can beat him

[Tiggeroshii]

59. "democratic favorite?"

Who's Democratic favorite. Not MY Democratic favortie! What basis are they saying this off of?

[dmallind]

66. Well for a start

They are "basing it off of" this:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/15/presidential.poll/

And these.....

http://www.pollingreport.com/WH08dem.htm

All of which show HRC in commanding leads with at least 1.5 times the support of any other Dem candidate.

Like it or not, agree with it or not, and with the full acknowledgment that 2 years is a crapload of time in politics, she is WAY ahead of anyone else on EVERY poll right now, which is all we can use to extrapolate the favorite candidates until those polls change.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

64. so much for that 'only hillary can win' crap

..

[dmallind]

67. I believe you are missing the important point..

OF DEMOCRATS currently posited as presidential candidates only she can win. If you include Republicans then nobody to my knowledge ever made that same claim. McCain - and for now - is the only match up she loses in. All other polls I've seen with ANY Dem against ANY Rep shows HRC as the only Dem winner at this admittedly very early stage.

So until we get another Dem who stacks up even in the same ballpark, "Only Hilary can win" is, for Democrats, still true.

[cyr330]

68. Why not?

There's virtually no difference between the two of them.

[fishwax]

69. McCain winning the nomination would be good for America

I'm not really a fan of McCain, and I don't buy his moderate posturing. He's a conservative.

But he's a different kind of conservative than Robertson, Reed, Bush, etc. I don't think he'll actually get the nomination, because he's not palatable to the religious right. If he wins the nomination, it means that they have been marginalized, which is good for America, and should essentially shift the spectrum leftward, at least slightly. And if he does win the nomination, he's not likely to have the support from the base than bush has the last two years, b/c all those fundies will be feeling marginalized. These early polls, of course, mean nothing :)

[Ignacio Upton]

70. Neither of them will run

And if they do, neither of them will get base support.

[d_b]

71. Clark/Murtha