Bush calls for lifting cap on special H-1B visas (high-tech workers)

[UpInArms]

http://today.reuters.com/investing/financeArticle.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=2006-02-02T190616Z_01_N02193839_RTRIDST_0_BUSH-VISAS-UPDATE-1.XML

MAPLEWOOD, Minn., Feb 2 (Reuters) - President George W. Bush on Thursday called on Congress to raise the cap on the so-called H-1B visas that allow companies to fill high tech jobs with foreign workers.

"The problem is, is that Congress has limited the number of H-1B visas," Bush said in a speech.

"I think it's a mistake not to encourage more really bright folks who can fill the jobs that are having trouble being filled in America, to limit their number. So I call upon Congress to be realistic and reasonable to raise that cap," he said.

High-tech businesses have pushed Congress to increase the number of such visas, currently capped at 65,000 per year.

...more...

editing to add a related article (not deserving of its own thread)

Bush tells Americans no need to fear global competition

http://today.reuters.com/misc/PrinterFriendlyPopup.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=uri:2006-02-02T205222Z_01_N02384851_RTRIDST_0_BUSH-PICTURE.XML

MAPLEWOOD, Minn., Feb 2 (Reuters) - President George W. Bush on Thursday said Americans should not fear global competition from rising economic powers like China and India, and called on Congress to allow more foreign workers to fill high-tech jobs in the United States.

In a trip to the Midwest Bush expanded on the election-year theme set in his State of the Union address that America must maintain its competitive edge in a global economy. He has proposed a program to support research and development in new technologies, and improve science and math education.

To fill vacant high-tech jobs in the United States, Bush called on Congress to lift the current limit on H-1B visas that allow foreign workers to get jobs in the United States.

"The problem is, is that Congress has limited the number of H-1B visas," Bush said in a speech at 3M, which makes products such as office supplies Scotch tape and Post-it notes.

"I think it's a mistake not to encourage more really bright folks who can fill the jobs that are having trouble being filled in America, to limit their number," Bush said. "So I call upon Congress to be realistic and reasonable to raise that cap."

<snip>

Bush said Americans should not fear competition because as wealth spreads overseas, there will be growth in demand for U.S. products. At the same time he acknowledged that there was some feeling of "uncertainty" as they see jobs moving abroad.

...more...

[pinniped]

1. I didn't know there were too many McJobs in Merka.

These businesses don't feel like paying all the crap that comes along with those pesky Merkan workers. SS, 401k, all that shit.

[cantstandbush]

46. What fucking "cap?" DUers, you have no idea how many people

get into this country under the various immigrant and resettlement programs. They are mostly under the radar of public scruitny. I wager that the cap they are talking about lifting is already at 80,000 per year + family members.

[Az_lefty]

2. we can't fill these hi-tech jobs with our own people?

:wtf:

[jayfish]

6. No, All Of The Tech Workers Who...

lost their jobs after the bubble burst and during outsourcing have up and disappeared. Prospective employers can't find a trace of them. :shrug:

Jay

EDITED FOR CONTENT

[Lone_Star_Dem]

22. Breaking! Community of former US tech workers spotted outside Austin, TX

This reporter was able to, at great risk to herself, approach one in its natural environment. It was mumbling such words as foreclosure, bankruptcy and is currently underemployed delivering something called the "Thrifty Nickle". When asked how it felt about the presidents plans it went into what can only be described as a republican economics induced seizure.

[kurth]

29. Austin is a good example

Most high tech careers in Austin are short-lived. Not many people have been able to achieve a secure lifestyle working for any of the semiconductor or software companies in town.

[SharonAnn]

45. We could, if we wanted to. But we don't want to. We'd have to pay them.

[AndyTiedye]

52. Too Many Techies Are Democrats!

The Bushbots never forgave us for backing Gore.

When you have more than 2 cents to rub together, you're supposed to sell out and turn Republican.
We didn't.

The only people they hate more than Democrats are Democrats with money.

[mumon]

62. NO YOU CAN'T

Folks, I work in high tech; the skill sets involved require Ph.D.s.

You have any clue how many Ph.D.'s in electrical engineering are American?

Any clue?

I don't like Bush as much as the next guy, but we need to lift caps on these workers.

But you know what?

I think Bush is full of it; this is like his BS "alternative energy" program, I'll bet you a dollar.

Really.

[0007]

73. Some can't even pick lettuce.

More bull coming down the pike. First destroy the unions and then go to slave labor rates. The sheep dogs have just about got all the sheep where they want em.

[rfranklin]

3. There are plenty of Americans looking for jobs...

What they mean is they can hire tech people at half the going rate if they import them like indentured servants.

got to it, Lou Dobbs, give 'em hell!

[UpInArms]

8. were you aware that Phillips Publishing has stopped Dobbs' newsletter?

see this post (as a couple more that follow it)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2080735&mesg_id=2081028

[ET Awful]

4. And meanwhile, citizens who are qualified remain unemployed

because of people skirting the actual H-1B requirements. There are plenty of qualified tech workers in the US to fill the positions, they just have these funny ideas like getting paid what they're worth and such.

[JuniperLea]

5. Trouble filling those jobs

Because every child has been left behind... or is it all more lies? Either way, W loses.

How many techies are our colleges turning out? How many are struggling to find jobs? If W is looking elsewhere, there must be a plethora here already. Opposite of what is said... remember the code!

[cyberpj]

7. I have several highly qualified high tech friends who can't find jobs yet.

So the question becomes, what do these businesses get when hiring H-1B visa workers that they don't get if they hire one of my friends?

lower pay?
no benefits?
what?

I'm serious. They wouldn't push for it if there wasn't a profit reason. What is it?

edited to say I found the answers in posts put up while I was typing! DU is the best.

[Stevious]

25. unfortunately

from my experience on campus, the international students are generally better prepared to take on the high tech jobs than US students.

[AndyTiedye]

31. Who Said Anything About Hiring Students?

There are quite a few experienced engineers out there looking for work.

[cyberpj]

42. That's exactly right. See my #41 below. nt

[cyberpj]

41. sorry, my high-tech husband and his pals are mid-aged career professionals

who have years of experience and were just getting too expensive to maintain and so they were cut loose.

Most likely for the book trained new grads you mention who get hired for half the pay.

Now, not even that is good enough because even those guys get benefits and hey...let's find a way to get out of that cost too! Voila! Welcome to America!

[Stevious]

55. That's ageism

which is a separate issue. Considering the cap on H1-B visas is 65,000 per year, that's not a lot of international competition. Those 65,000 visas have all been issued by the end of February for the past couple years.

Generally what I see are advanced degree (Masters, PhD) international students, attending university on an F1 (student) visa. These are the folks that require corporate sponsorship for the H1-B visa. I work for an international high tech company, and I don't see a lot of international experienced professional hires competing for jobs in the US. The majority of our hiring is done at the university level. It costs a company an additional $6-10K to provide visa sponsorship. So, it's not cheaper to hire an international employee. You'd have to be really desperate for technical hires to want to increase the number of visas. I don't see the demand out there, in other words, the tech sector's hiring trends don't appear to me to justify increasing the limit. This is an example of Bush believing his own PR machine that the economy is stonger than reality.

[Kittycat]

76. I here you. We're in the same boat. eom

[Kittycat]

75. No benefits here :(

My DH is a Principle Software Engineer (degree in Elec. Eng & Comp Sci), and has been fortunate enough to be with the same company for 11 years now. He's watched his company be bought and sold more times than I can remember, and 2/3 of his office has been downsized. First they took their bonus program away, then they cut pay, then no raises, then increased healthcare so high, it's almost unaffordable, then dropped all educational benefits - and now took away the stock purchase program (the last remaining "benefit" outside of healthcare). He recieves a "Top Performer" review year after year, yet nothing. The last two years we got a cost of living increase raise. We had to buy a house 2 hours by car and 1.5 hours by train/bus, outside of the city because it's the last affordable housing. It's not that the company doesn't make money, because his division is the cash cow - yet all the money goes to fund the company's failing venture (The core company program).

It's tough enough here as it is, just trying to maintain his income (which when you take into consideration is paycut 4 years ago, still hasn't caught up). We know there are no jobs in his income range that aren't "consultant" positions. So they give his company the chance to hire some more H1-b's, and you know what's next... We'll be in the same place many of his former co-workers are in. Picking up a consulting job here and there, but never permanent work - then losing everything.

Is hate too strong of a word? Because that's the feeling I have for the repuke administration.

[John Q. Citizen]

9. Baucas and bush echoing simular themes here... n/t

[Bridget Burke]

10. I know lots of bright folks from other countries working here....

But they are not limited by restrictive visas. They want good jobs & are not indentured to their employers. Many of them will become citizens & many I've talked to will NOT be Republicans. They are raising children born in the USA.

What unfillable jobs is he talking about? Why aren't they posted online so people already here can have first crack at them?

[ninkasi]

11. I'll bet some congressperson

or Senator could supply a list of highly qualified tech people to fill the jobs. They could put a request for tech workers to register on their websites, and offer it to Chimp. I am not a tech worker, but I believe that all of those who lost their jobs would be glad to get new ones...they just want to be paid a living wage. The problem isn't lack of people, it's the fact that in spite of all of the money and time tech workers spent learning their jobs, corporate America isn't willing to pay them what they're worth.

I'd love to see the ads these companies are placing, and claim they can't find people to fill. Maybe we need to start importing foreign CEOs who are willing to work for a reasonable salary, instead of the greedy idiots we have now. Now THAT would save some money.

[rodeodance]

40. geech--export the jobs --then bring overseas people in to filling remainin

jobs. dah!

[dbonds]

12. Not like there are thousands of unemployed tech workers in the US

They still want cheaper and cheaper workers. Thing is with tech jobs, most people put in years of training and working in a junior position to get to the good jobs, then they want to come in and remove you because you make a little more than someone flipping burgers. There is plenty of talent already in the US, just need to be willing to pay for what it is worth. Creating technology is not an assembly line type job.

[Zinfandel]

13. More workers fighting for jobs, means lower wages! Bush & corporations

love that...Bush & Corporations are all for having a lot more people than there are jobs...they can make bigger profit on workers...fucking corporate pigs!!!

[drm604]

14. WTF?

Which jobs are having trouble being filled? I'm a tech worker, and I'm fortunate in that I do have a job, but there are plenty who are looking for work. :grr:

[lindisfarne]

17. Yes, but American tech workers don't want to work 70+ hours a week

once they have families (their fault is to want to spend time with their partner/children). They also want to make more than the H1-B workers make for equivalent work. I know people in the tech industry (both citizens and non-citizens) and companies hide the fact that they pay H1-B workers less in multiple ways: putting them in lower-ranked positions while expecting work equivalent to a higher rank (and higher paid) position, expecting well over 40 hours per week of work (without paying them for much of the overtime); also, H1-B workers are far less likely to complain about work conditions in general. H1-B workers are easier to get rid of: you just don't request a visa for them the next year (or the paperwork amazingly doesn't get filed or gets filed late).

[nashville_brook]

26. pushes the whole market down

not what we need right now. or ever.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[entanglement]

65. Yeah they're sending THEIR money back home aren't they?

There's a lot of xenophobia in your post, IMHO. And why does their being single offend you? :crazy:

[skids]

15. There's zero shortage of high tech workers.

The shortage is in managers that don't throw out resumes from their huge pile of applications for stupid, inane reasons.

[Tempest]

16. Bush's disconnect

In the SOTU speech, Bush said he wanted to emphasis math and science in schools.

Where's the incentive if he's going to give all the high tech jobs to foreigners?

[Sin]

18. I'm one of those workers.

Got out of school for computer networking right after the bubble went.
Every thing dried up and what jobs were left were filled rather quickly with the backing of the age old principle of its not what you know its who you know.

Then what was left of the tec help jobs started to get off shored and H-1B ramped up i even saw some of the people with more training then my self and certs out the ass working in the sears electronic department I think maybe 1 person out of my class is still working with computers now every one else has mc jobs. Whats even more sad is we had about 20 people in our class that were getting Retrained because there textile jobs were outsourced now there even farther up the creek with out a paddle.

The only job offers you see around the area now are for truck drivers and or Nurses.
Now I'm going to be starting a job in a warehouse like 5 miles from were I live for twice the pay that they would give tech help 60 miles away.

More visas now there really good at kicking us while were down.

[shanti]

51. a lot of nurses

are coming in from the phillipines now too...

[rainbow4321]

72. And some of those want to head back once they get here...

and experience the overworked, understaffed nursing environment here.

I work w/ several nurses from there, the culture difference is what send thems into wanting them to go back home.
Apparently over there the patients' families are much more involved with their loved ones who are in the hospitals..they DO stuff for them...help them go to the bathroom, get them food from the hospital fridge, fill their water jugs. Nurses are left to do the nursing/technical part of their job.
Here, at least in our area, there could be 5 able visitors in a patient's room and the patient is lucky if a visitor will hand the patient his/her watercup----much easier for them to call the nurse to do it.
The hospitals woo the nurses from other countries so they can pay them less than US nurses. Sometimes $10 less an hour...cheap labor.
As long as people like Frist (HCA) are running the country, it isn't going to get any better for US nurses. His family's company recruits BIG time from other countries.

[harpboy_ak]

74. there is *always* a nursing shortage

most because hospitals want them to work such horrible hours. most nurses are women, and want schedules where they can spend time with their families. i know many nurses who have left hospital work as soon as they could, because of the shift work and frequent mandatory overtime. in addition, many hospitals are very short-staffed on the wards to cut costs.

we have been importing nurses in the US since the 50s. i know a number of former nurses who emigrated from ireland then, when there were no jobs in the old country. nurses started coming from the phillipines in the late 60s.

good nurses can find a job anywhere they go.

[berni_mccoy]

19. WOW! I know MANY MANY HI-TECH Workers who have been LAID OFF

For a very long time... they won't like this news AT ALL.

[kurth]

27. Same here

Most of my acquaintances who had lost their high-paying jobs in high tech (mostly due to offshoring and outsourcing) had a very hard time finding a replacement income. All are doing something else, at MUCH lower pay.

[MindPilot]

20. I wonder how many of our democratic "representatives"

are going think this is a good idea? Or will they be speaking out against it? Are you representing the corporation or the people? I think this is a pertinent question to ask them

[area51]

21. traitorous republinazis

I'm so tired of traitorous republinazis keeping Americans unemployed by refusing to hire Americans. There is no tech worker shortage.

Nazis can only think a few seconds ahread, & can't see that the more people you impoverish, the less tax $$ you have to work with, & the fewer bullshit wars you can start up, less tax money for police, fire depts., etc.

[MindPilot]

23. Here's what I just sent my rep:

Citing a non-existent "shortage" of tech workers, the president just asked Congress to raise the cap on H-1B visas.

Given that almost anyone you talk to either is or knows someone out of work and companies are laying off huge numbers of workers, I certainly hope you will speak out against this obvious attempt by Bush to pander to corporations and drive down wages and benefits.

[Bob3]

24. such bullshit

and of course this is right after he brays about the need schooling for scientists and mathematicians in the US. Christ you think he could wait day or two before he undercut that. And it's not like there aren't a lot of people who could do these jobs.

This by the way, having an effect - my sister teaches in NY at Pace and she's seen the enrollment for programing courses plummet. So in the future we will have to rely on the Indian education system.

And lastly Mr. ass clown - WE DON'T MAKE ANYTHING ANYMORE - WHAT FUCKING PRODUCTS WILL THIS OVERSEAS WEALTH BUY? SOYBEANS?

[doodadem]

28. I'm a technical/scientific recruiter

I recruited for the Information Technology industry for 15 years before the bottom fell out of it with the advent of the Bush recession. Plenty of my I.T. recruiter buddies filed bankruptcy, went out of business. I switched to other technical (engineers of all sorts) and scientific (medical device and pharmaceutical)fields. It took a really long time, but finally back to where I can make a living at it.
My personal observation is that as much as I love to blame Bushco for everything, the companies are just as much at fault when it comes to hiring displaced American workers. They are not interested if the candidate does not have the latest whiz bang technology, has been "out of work too long", has the wrong kind of degree (or none), wants too much money, etc etc. They have become ridiculously picky because it is a buyer's market. They still have to advertise a job, and can only hire an H-1 candidate if "no suitable applicants" are available, but it's easy to get around that if they say, we need skills a, b, c, d, e, and we're only getting applicants with a, b, c.

The hottest jobs I recruit for now are for Structural/Civil, and Geotechnical Engineers, and then Medical Device Design Engineers, Clinical Trial Managers, and the associated Regulatory Affairs and Quality Assurance managers. I would say that 75% of the people I've placed in these fields have been naturalized American citizens, including Indians, Chinese, and Hispanic. A few have required sponsorship on a visa, and companies will do it because there are just not enough of these folks to go around. I have not seen any disparity in salaries.

[Kolesar]

32. Geotechnical Engineers = drilling and mining?

thanks for the report

[doodadem]

64. Geotech, as in

soil analysis for building foundations, slope stability, groundwater concerns, etc.

[Kolesar]

71. thank you

Sounds interesting, too

[Hekate]

30. Our high tech workers are now competing for Third World wages...

...both abroad and at home.

The trouble is, we can't live on Third World wages in the US -- except in the sense that McDonald's and Wal-Mart employees can "live" on their wages.

All that hard work and college debt...!

Bush -- he of the legacy admission and Gentleman's C -- thinks we're stupid, doesn't he?

Hekate

[lovuian]

33. We DON"T NEED THEM!!!

Lets train our own Americans!!!

[hatrack]

34. Those damned "Competetiveness Agendas" just take so LONG!

In the mean time, let's keep pricing American workers who DO have the skills companies need out of the market by importing people who will work for 1/3 or 1/4 the cost - yeah, that's the ticket!

[Sadie5]

35. I need to call my senator again

This is a sore spot with me. We have qualified people who need this work, yet Bush opens the door to import more low wage workers. Speaking of my senator Evan Bayh, was reading the Indy Star & News today and the editorial page had about three letters from Repigs griping that dear Evan was leaning too far left. They had voted for him, but never again. I always knew Bayh was a true Repig in disguise, now I know for sure. I guess he figures he wants to be Prez so he had better vote with the left for awhile.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=OPINION01

Edited to add link

[Thor_MN]

36. As someone who lost a 6 year long position to someone on an H1B,

I feel fully justified in saying "FUCK YOU, GEORGE W BUSH, AND GET YOUR ASS OUT OF MY STATE!!!"

[ConcernedCanuk]

37. I suspect this is akin to bringing in the Germans scientists during WW2

.
.
.

The PNACers want the most deadly technology they can muster . . .

like they did to achieve their "new-clear" superiority

The PNACers have realized the importance of the net

and they want the meanest hackers/programmers that they can find

Just my silly Canuk Opinion

:dunce:

[pdurod1]

38. That does it, Sounds naive, I'm writing my senators and representative.

I'll move out of this stupid state if I have to. And things were just starting to pick up here too. Why did people vote for this sellout of a president?

[Daphne08]

39. I think it treasonous enough to take American jobs

and ship them off, much less importing the workers HERE to take our jobs! :mad:

[peabody]

43. I don't post a lot but

this news just burns me up and I have to let it out. Bush is just plain evil. I can't state it any other way. I've been in the tech industry for 16 years, the last 6 working on ASIC chips, unit my startup got bought and my entire team was laidoff and the work sent to India. I live in the Silicon Valley and while it looks like the job market might be picking up a bit, I know a lot of tech workers are still out of a job. I was just at a job fair yesterday at the Santa Clara Convention Center and it was pathetic. There were very few companies recruiting; the number of booths that help people polish up their resumes almost equalled the number of tech companies there! I looked around and most of the people looking for work seem older too.

There are so many capable American engineers that, to me, it's unconscionable to say that we can't fill the needs of tech companies here and we have to lift the H1B visa cap. There's just no way that can be true, unless you're a high tech exec or a Republican. My stupid brother-in-law, a born again "Christian", said that it was the tech worker's choice to work in that field. Yes it's true but how many would have made that choice if they knew that those jobs would be drying up and moving overseas? Why does he think there were more engineering majors than art majors in college? Because that was where the jobs were. Now that the enrolling in engineering is dropping and American tech workers are struggling to get by, the Clown-in-Chief wants to lift the H1B cap? Somewhere, a God got to be looking down at this and shaking his head.

I went through a nursing program and I'm a nurse now. But even that isn't "safe". As much as the nurses like to think they're indespensable, hospitals are hiring foreign nurses like crazy. During report, the report room is buzzing with nurses talking Tagalog. I tell them that nursing now feels like what engineering was 10 years ago--and look what happened to engineering. There might be a difference in that it's harder to offshore health care work and the population is getting older; but I wouldn't bet on it. Finally, nursing is extremely hard and stressful. It doesn't have to be that way but by staffing each nurse with the max load I just don't know how most people can stay working on the nursing floor without injury. I plan to go back to engineering because that's were my passion is, but I'm keeping my nursing license alive just in case the Bozos get their way and there's more offshoring, more influx of foreign workers, and more age discrimination.




:nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[LizW]

48. It's an outrage

They screw American workers every single way they can. They offshored manufacturing until there was none left and everyone went into the service industry -- lower pay, but it was safer. Now they're claiming we can't fill the jobs and they're bringing the H1B's here to do the service jobs too.

[cap]

61. look into bioinformatics...

that's a growth field

[amandabeech]

44. Our democratic leaders have to take this on.

Or else they can forget running for re-election. Baucus can go do something unmentionable to himself.

The day of the state of the union, I was watching Wolf and trying not to puke. He had a large panel, every member but one of them mouthing the usual platitudes.

Then, right before commercial, the one on the end nearest Blitzboy said that if neither the dems nor the pubs comes up with a populist agenda soon, a third party will start. I didn't catch his name, but I think that he may have been a pub.

Anybody else see this.

I think that the guy is right.

[ramapo]

47. This is an absolute outrage

This might be my tipping point....He should be calling for a halt to H1Bs

[WhiteTara]

49. we're not smart enough, not eager enough, cheap

enough. Those camps are going to come in handy to put all us un enough people someplace.

[shanti]

53. and our jailers

will be outsourced too:(

[cyberpj]

54. June 2005 - India demanding 195,000 H-1Bs? AGAIN? Or still?

India demanding 195,000 H-1Bs?

snip
From The Economic Times story: "In the ongoing WTO talks, India has made enhancement of the H1B quota as a key bargaining chip for offering concessions on market access for industrial products and farm goods, highly-placed government officials said."

http://news.com.com//2061-10788_3-5760910.html

[salin]

56. Everyone is missing the bigger picture

in order to accelerate outsourcing - some companies want folks trained working in the US to get more experience before opening up bigger operations for the companies in their own countries. While the H-1B program used to be used by companies for cheaper employees, now I fear something bigger is afoot - it is about training folks to be better equipped to move up the corporate chains... back home - where they can hire even cheaper labor. This could be, in the long run, a strategy for speeding up the outsourcing of more white collar tech jobs.

[ramapo]

57. Exactly

That is exactly how the program has worked to date. Early H1Bs, trained here, made contacts, back to India, now the foundation for the outsourcing boom there....or they recruit and bring over more....it is unbelievable what we have allowed happen to the IT industry. It has been handed over to foreign workers with hardly a whimper.

[Disturbed]

58. Shrub is full of shit, as usual.

His Corp. money machine is pushing for this crap so they can cut American workers and keep hi tech American people scrambling for jobs a lower wages. America is rapidly becoming a Corporatist Nation, run by and for the benefit of Corps. It's too bad that the Dem Party is no longer an oppostion party that stands up for American Workers.

[Stevious]

59. he's full of shit, you're right

The demand for more H1-B visas isn't coming from US tech companies, that would mean they had increased hiring demands, a sign that there was an economic recovery. This is Rovian PR bullshit.

[ramapo]

67. We line in a Corpacracy

The Colbert Report should have Corpacracy as the word of the day. The corporation rules, our government and representatives are by and for the corporations.

Democrats are for the most part Republican wannabes. They go along to get along and then wonder why they've been bamboozled once again by the Republicans. I can't name one straight-talking, non-mealy-mouthed Democrat outside of the Congressional Black Caucus and perhaps a couple of isolated, "part-time" Democrats.

[standup]

60. My personal story --- DON'T let your kids get in high tech!

I got laid off from a manufacturing job with Motorola in Austin several years ago. Motorola and the other semiconductor companies started the high tech revolution, but they were also the first to move everything offshore. My product lines were moved to China. I have a college degree, but I was unemployed for over a year and unable to find anything similar in Austin. It was pretty hellish. I had some software experience, and got a job offer for that. But the job lasted exactly two months, when they decided to move the project to India.

Anyhow, I have been working in the building trades and doing ok, but I’ve been telling friends and family: If you love your kids, don’t let them go into high tech (unless your kid is a CEO with stock options). Most of high tech can be very easily moved to China and India - China for the hardware stuff and India for the soft stuff.

Math and science will help you get a job as a engineering drone busting your butt for some Dilbert boss at a company. But the job will last only a few years, and then POOF! your job is gone when they hire a new “fresh-out” graduate (“because their skills are more current”) - or more commonly, somebody in India or China takes your job at 1/5 your salary.

Take care.

[ramapo]

66. This is the bigger tragedy

Computer science enrollments are way down. I know I would've discouraged my kids from entering IT had they been interested. Why? Because it is unlikely that they'd get a job and if they did it was likely a matter of time until it went away.

All the rhetoric about math and science education is such BS because there aren't a whole lot of jobs out there for budding scientists. The US does not value education once it is completed. However that is not true in developing countries...India for one.

So now instead of encouraging high-tech education we discourage it because US corporations give the jobs to H1Bs or offshore them altogether so why should American students bother?

Is this country insane or just plain stupid?

[AnneD]

63. A thinly veiled effort...

to to outsource on our own soil. This will depress wages in the few high paying jobs left in this counrty. Nurses have been fighting this because we have seen this as a detriment to patient care in this country. Rather than spending money to help with education of Nurses and providing a better, safer work enviroment, hospitals prefer to go the cheap route...sacrificing Nurses and safe patient care.

[nanddk]

68. low wage competition will always do you in.

If we allow low wage workers to come into the US. we kind of knock ourselves.
we allow Mexicans to come over the border all the time to take..."jobs Americans won't take" once they get their foot in the door and get an ID. They are basically legal. But now why should they pick fruit when they are bilingual and and have an education? And on top of that they will do the accounting job you do for 10 grand less? why are those corporations just after the best employee that they can pay less? hmmm. or do you only think they can pick fruit? Very condescending

[Zhade]

69. Without having read the thread, anyone else notice...

...that he's calling for this right around the time he calls for more 'immigration emergencies' detention centers, and KBR gets the contract?

:tinfoilhat:

[ConcernedCanuk]

70. I do not understand the confusion I see here

.
.
.

It's pretty obvious to me that the PNACers (aka "warmongers") need the advantage of "control"

bringing in German scientists so they could bomb Japan - doubtful they could have got their own citizens to do that . . .

It's all about "control"

Visas can be revoked, canceled or refused - but it's pretty difficult for even the PNACers to take away the rights of it's citizens . . .

BUT

That Patriot Act thingy is making a big dent in the rights of the peaceful citizens of the USA

(sigh)

[lovuian]

77. These corporations are setting themselves for awful Karma!!!

They will be destroyed byt these employees...