'No President has lied so baldly and so often and so demonstrably'

[TeeYiYi]

'No President has lied so baldly and so often and so demonstrably'

By Andrew Gumbel

09 November 2003

"The intelligence process is a bit like virginity," says Ray McGovern, who worked as a CIA analyst for 27 years. "Once you prostitute it, it's never the same. Your credibility never recovers.

"Watching what has happened with Iraq over the past several months has been like watching your daughter being raped."

<snip>

"Now we know that no other President of the United States has ever lied so baldly and so often and so demonstrably ... The presumption now has to be that he's lying any time that he's saying anything."

"Unless what has happened in the past year and a half is recognised as a scandal, in which the CIA has been badly abused, then there's no hope," he said. "I pin my hopes mostly on the press these days. Turns out, surprise surprise, that even the US press doesn't like to be lied to."

More: http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=461946

TYY

[Don_G]

1. The US Press May Not Like To Be Lied Too

But they're generally so lazy that they report anything this lying SOB says and leaves it at that or have traded their testes for a paycheck.

[otohara]

3. The Media Is Still Protecting Jr., In Hopes

he vetos the overturned FCC rulling by House/Senate. We're doomed as long as the GOP is in the majority. The close connection between media and this government is frightening. Might as well admit they are now "practically" state run.

[schultzee]

5. Yes, it looks like we are headed for fascism and what is

amazing is that the republicans are buying into it when a large majority of them will be economically hurt by it also. There are many republicans who are not rich.

[dbt]

10. otohara, I think they're better than state-run

They are doing a better job of policing themselves than the government could. They parrot the regime line 90 per cent of the time, "straying" from the message just enough for Moran Amerika to think that a diversity of opinion exists.

Deregulation has worked like a charm in the Media. Trouble is, it has worked in bu$h's favor.

Kill your TV before it kills you,
:argh:
dbt

[kayell]

13. Looks to me like the govt. is corporate run

along with the media. Neither is going to go against the wishes of their corporate masters. I think we are seeing the fulfillment of Mussolini's dictum: "Fascism should rightly be called corporatism as it is a merger of state and corporate power."

What's good for Halliburton is good for the country.

[reprobate]

26. Little Abner in the comic striips said it first:

"What's good for general bullmoose is good for the USA."

[corarose]

8. What's the old saying

I will do whatever the person tells me to do that is paying the bills.

[BiggJawn]

22. You said it! What's "Bartcop's Myth of the Liberal Media"?

"The 'Liberal Media' will be only as liberal as the owners of the Conservative corporations that own them will allow them to be" or something like that?

NBC is owned by GE, a HUGE war contractor. FAUX is owned by Rupert Murdoch, a Wingnut's Wingnut, etc...

We don't have Journalists anymore, we have pretty teleprompter readers who are hired for their hair, teeth, and tits.

I knew that the "golden era" was over when Bob Woodward published that piece of dung called "Bush at WAR"...

[Fovea]

32. In my rosy scenario

those few remaining news organizations that do journalism will realize that analyzing the entertainment market is not the true work of a news editor. Editors are supposed to analyze news, not market share.

The rest of the whore media really don't care. But they will
be left standing holding the bag for cheerleading for a pack of miserablel liars. Which makes them either astoundingly incompetent or complict... you decide.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

2. Great find, TeeYiYi!

Gives me hope.

I firmly believe that it will have to be the foreign press that starts the ball rolling on the lies since Powell, Jr. holds the keys to FCC licenses and approval.

Once the ball is large enough, the Ameican press will essentially say, "We can't ignore it any more. Sorry, George." Then we might see some real reporting again.

[TeeYiYi]

4. Thanks BP. . . I'm cautiously optimistic . . .

I want so badly to believe that the lying sack-o-shit BFEE transparent house of cards might finally hit the turf.
But it will take a '180' by the 'muriKan press to bring this fantasy to fruition.

Like you, this gives me hope . . .

TYY

[lfairban]

6. Notice . . .

. . . that this is only showing up in a British newspaper.

[Buns_of_Fire]

7. If this makes it across the pond (which I doubt)...

...the verboten "L" word will be expunged. The Murkan press will say that Our Glorious Leader was "misinformed," that he was "badly served" by others, or maybe even that he "trusts his subordinates too much" -- but his Teflon will remain intact until the meme starts spreading: Our Glorious Leader... He Who Walks on Water... Born of the Immaculate Selection... f**king LIED to us all.

[truthisfreedom]

11. misspoke, you mean.

he's incapable of lying, because he can't speak. he obviously misspoke. correct yourself, or suffer the consequences.

[Buns_of_Fire]

20. I correct myself...

I was misled by my lyin' eyes and ears that what I thought what I heard I meant was misunderstood by what I thought I saw. (Just so long as I can deflect the blame to someone -- anyone -- else!)

[Merlin]

9. Perfect description of the process. n/t

.

[union_maid]

12. I hope you're right

Over and over it seems that the press is actually covering this administration with a critical eye and then there's a shift in the wind and they all start doing the happy dance again.

[Wickerman]

30. Kinda makes you wonder why they back off, huh?

Not often the same voices pushing twice. What is it? Threats of harm to children, exposure of sexual secrets, horse heads in the bed?

[kayell]

14. Move along now, nothing to see, it's just

someone trying "to politically wound the president of the United States." :eyes:

[T_i_B]

15. I was going to post this as a thread

but since it seems a tad similar I'll post it here to avoid another dupe thread.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=461953

An unprecedented array of US intelligence professionals, diplomats and former Pentagon officials have gone on record to lambast the Bush administration for its distortion of the case for war against Iraq. In their view, the very foundations of intelligence-gathering have been damaged in ways that could take years, even decades, to repair.

A new documentary film beginning to circulate in the United States features one powerful condemnation after another, from the sort of people who usually stay discreetly in the shadows - a former director of the CIA, two former assistant secretaries of defence, a former ambassador to Saudi Arabia and even the man who served as President Bush's Secretary of the Army until just a few months ago.

Between them, the two dozen interviewees reveal how the pre-war intelligence record on Iraq showed virtually the opposite of the picture the administration painted to Congress, to US voters and to the world. They also reconstruct the way senior White House officials - notably Vice-President Dick Cheney - leaned on the CIA to find evidence that would fit a preordained set of conclusions.

"There was never a clear and present danger. There was never an imminent threat. Iraq - and we have very good intelligence on this - was never part of the picture of terrorism," says Mel Goodman, a veteran CIA analyst who now teaches at the National War College. The case for accusing Saddam Hussein of concealing weapons of mass destruction was, in the words of the veteran CIA operative Robert Baer, largely achieved through "data mining" - going back over old information and trying to wrest new conclusions from it. The agenda, according to George Bush Senior's ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Chas Freeman, was both highly political and profoundly misguided.

[kayell]

16. I think you should post it as a seperate thread

same theme, but different cast of characters, more people involved, and something actually happening in the US. Doesn't look like a dupe to me.

[T_i_B]

18. Yep, my story IS a dupe

Might as well give the different story I posted some extra coverage.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=208638

[kayell]

19. Thanks, saw the dupe, bumped it, Good story.

eom

[Flubadubya]

17. This is all very nice but...

Mr. McGovern has been telling pretty much this same story all along. There was an interview with him and another of the Vips agents on CNNi a couple of months ago or so and they were saying basically the same thing. Sadly, their story will never be told by mainstream American media.

Look at who's talking, a UK media outlet, and the previous story on CNNi. Nope, although this screams for attention, the American press-titutes will NEVER touch it.

Oh, and by the way Mr. McGovern, I'd watch my back if I were you.

[0007]

21. We all must realize that junior is just a front....

for the ruthless organizations named the Carlyle Group and Halliburton.

junior is no better than a shill, a cheer leader, a door matt, or the common toilet. junior knows very little about anything.

'Tis the media that has let us people down in this entertainment crazed society.

[kayell]

23. Front or not, he took the oath

he is legally responsible for actions taken under his signature and approval. I have no sympathy for the front theory - it will be used to excuse his actions just as it was used to teflon coat Reagan. Someone capable enough to stand and take that oath is capable of saying no. Almost everything he has done since he was selected has led to death and suffering for thousands and thousands of people. I want him held responsible just as much as I want the probable puppet masters held responsible. Unless it is proven that he is actually made of the same stuff as Charley McCarthy, he is as culpable as the rest.

[Davis_X_Machina]

24. Want to see a picute of the politico-media future?

Go read the article on Silvio Berlusconi in the most recent New Yorker. (Not available on line.)

[catzies]

25. I'm reading that right now. One of my first thoughts is that

What Berlusconi has going in Italy is *'s wet dream.

[The Magistrate]

27. This Is The Truth

Mendacity is the foundation of this regime: it could not exist without it.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Jack Rabbit]

28. Unfortunately, McGovern is right

Now we know that no other President of the United States has ever lied so baldly and so often and so demonstrably ...

After Nixon, that's quite an indictment.

[JoFerret]

29. Nail on the head Andrew Gumbel

...and thanks. This is what much of the world thinks and knows. Let's hope they come out in numbers for the "state visit" of his majesty. Bare your Bum for Britain, or do whatever it takes.

[pfitz59]

31. kick

:kick: