Iran Blames U.S., Europe in Cartoon Crisis

[ECH1969]

Iran's hard-line president on Saturday accused the United States and Europe of being "hostages of Zionism" and said they should pay a heavy price for the publication of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad that have triggered worldwide protests.

Yemen announced that three chief editors of privately owned Yemeni papers will stand trial for printing the Danish cartoons and their publishing licenses suspended. They Information Ministry officials said the editors are charged with offending the prophet of Islam and violating religions.

In a speech marking the 27th anniversary of the Islamic Revolution Saturday, Ahmadinejad linked his public rage with Israel and the cartoons satirizing Islam's most revered figure.

"Now in the West insulting the prophet is allowed, but questioning the Holocaust is considered a crime," he said. "We ask, why do you insult the prophet? The response is that it is a matter of freedom, while in fact they (who insult the founder of Islam) are hostages of the Zionists. And the people of the U.S. and Europe should pay a heavy price for becoming hostages to Zionists."

http://www.durantdemocrat.com/articles/2006/02/11/ap/international/d8fn96kg0.txt

[poskonig]

1. the U.S. and Europe should pay a heavy price

I don't want to be nuked because of this man's superstition.

[MisterP]

4. what nukes?

[barb162]

14. It's fairly likely he's working on nuclear weapons

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5611550,00.html

Iran doesn't exactly need nuclear power

[Deja Q]

6. The US won't be. Europe might be.

Depends on any fissionable material they've got.

Many countries helped to sell Iran weapons over the last 20+ years; most recently Russia.

Israel, if we go by Iran's leader, would be wiped off.

But any number of offshored US companies in that region would be instant targets. That's the REAL reason why Iran is any threat.

[High Plains]

8. Do you really think Iran would drop a nuclear bomb on Israel?

Given that Israel is sitting on a sizeable cache of nuclear weapons of its own?

Or will you play the "madman" card? Funny, that: Every world leader the US doesn't like becomes a "madman." They can apparently be cured of their "madness" by embracing US policy goals. Ask Ghadafi.

Chavez, a madman.
Korea's Kim, a madman.
Ahmedinjad, a madman.
Saddam, a madman.
Aristide, they used that on him, too.

[barb162]

16. I think his hatred of the Jews is so extreme he would

Britain, Germany and France have led months of futile talks on behalf of the 25-nation European Union amid U.S.-backed suspicions that Iran's civilian nuclear program is aimed at producing nuclear weapons - not electricity as Tehran insists.

"snip
Ahmadinejad - who has declared the Nazi slaughter of 6 million Jews during World War II a ``myth'' and that Israel should be ``wiped off the map'' - said the true Holocaust was happening now in the Palestinian territories and Iraq.

Ahmadinejad has not relented in attacking Israel and recently a Tehran newspaper announced it was holding a contest for caricatures of the Holocaust. That contest is in response to the publication of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad by European newspapers, which has triggered a series of deadly global demonstrations by angry Muslims and attacks on Western embassies.

Ahmadinejad has said ``Zionists'' were behind the publication of caricatures. Islam widely holds that representations of the prophet are banned for fear they could lead to idolatry.snip"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5611550,00.html

[Colorado Blue]

19. I'm wondering what the people of Iran did to deserve this

guy, not to mention the rest of us?

And yes I do think they'd nuke Israel. Of course this would also victimize a lot of Arabs as well.

It's also upsetting that Ahmadijenab is putting Jewish people in the middle of this cartoon thing, #1, and #2, sounding like the second coming of Hitler.

Also, he has threatened to shut down the Persian Gulf - where so many tankers come and go. This would certainly put a dent in the world's oil supply.

I certainly hope cooler heads prevail - soon.

[tocqueville]

9. what nukes ?

[barb162]

17. it seems he's working on developing them

[Pavulon]

22. The US

now has a defense pact with israel. If Iran carries out a nuclear strike we will respond with the full weight of the us nuclear arsenal.

Iran's defense minister has said that Iran could absorb the israeli retaliation and it would justify the destruction of israel. No shit, really said it.

However they can not absorb a us second strike. 30mt vs 3000mts is a significant jump.

They are all just waggling their dicks in light of being reported to the un.

[MrSlayer]

2. Questioning the holocaust isn't a crime.

Not in the U.S. anyway. Other people don't have free speech but we do, for now.

Fuck this guy.

[DeadManInc]

3. It's the United States fault that a Denmark paper

printed cartoons about his so called great prophet? These morons need to get over it. Its a cartoon for fuck sake.

[MrSlayer]

11. Yes.

I agree that this is way too overblown, especially in light of the true atrocities committed in the name of Islam. Backward priorities.

[Spankydem]

23. And surprisingly......

not one newspaper in the US has printed the cartoons.

I do support freedom of speech.

[High Plains]

7. Holocaust denial is a criminal offense in some countries.

[MrSlayer]

10. Yes I know but I said in the U.S.A.

I think it's dumb that it is a crime anywhere. Ludicrous really.

[tocqueville]

13. sorry but the US doesn't have an universal patent of how free speech

should be defined. But it's your right to think so and I am prepared to defend your right, even if I disagree.

[MrSlayer]

15. I realize that.

I just think they're stupid for having it. It's silly.

[tocqueville]

18. I think you miss the point

Holocaust denial isn't free speech, it's slander

there is no serious scientific debate about the Holocaust existence

all holocaust deniers (for racial or religious or both reasons) have a clear anti-semitic agenda. The Holocaust denial is only a fake argument to incite to hatred. Incitation to hatred isn't free speech, because history has shown that in most of cases it has resulted in slaughters. Even if the denial doesn't in itself directly advocates to violence, it's mere statement "excuses" possible future violence.

Let say that the KKK would try to conquer power in the US and paint the Blacks as such a "nuisance" that getting rid of them would "solve all problems". They could start advocating that "slavery never existed" but was a construction of "liberals" like Lincoln. Thus it would facilitate oppression of just that minority.

the restriction cuts off hate mongers, but doesnt stop a scientific/historical debate about the holcaust. The restriction is comparable to the one that outlaws to shout "fire" in a crowded theater when there isn't any. Because preventing the risk of people being stomped to death overrules the right to do a prank.

[tocqueville]

12. it's exactly because we have free speech that the law exist

Seven European Union member countries including France and Germany have passed laws making the denial or minimization of the Holocaust a crime. <9> Many Holocaust deniers claim their work falls under a "universal right to free speech", and see these laws as a confirmation of their own beliefs, arguing that the truth does not need to be legally enforced. Some people who do not deny that the Holocaust occurred nevertheless oppose such restrictions of free speech, including Noam Chomsky. An uproar resulted when Serge Thion used one of Chomsky's essays without explicit permission as a foreword to a book of Holocaust denial essays. See: Criticism of Noam Chomsky.

At times, Holocaust deniers seek to rely on Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which guarantees freedom of expression, when faced with criminal sanctions against their statements or publications. The European Court of Human Rights however consistently declares their complaints inadmissible. According to Article 17 of the Convention, nothing in the Convention may be construed so as to justify acts that are aimed at destroying any of the very rights and freedoms contained therein. Invoking free speech to propagate denial of crimes against humanity is, according to the Court's case-law, contrary to the spirit in which the Convention was adopted in the first place. Reliance on free speech in such cases would thus constitute an abuse of a fundamental right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

[Sarah Ibarruri]

26. The Holocaust is not a religion.

Just as the genocide of native Americans is not a religion. Murder and genocide are not a religious belief. It's fact.

[iverglas]

27. gee, Sarah

The Holocaust is not a religion.

You're saying that terror bombing is a religion?

I hope you don't mind if I use one of your own tactics on your own speech: pretending to infer things from it that you didn't say.

Of course, in this instance, I don't think I'm really pretending. I think you really do say that.

So if it's okay to attack Muslims by portraying them as terror bombers, I suppose it must be okay to attack Jews by portraying them as tellers of false tales about persecution in order to justify anything they want to do (that being what Holocaust denial actually is, of course).

I'm sure you'll agree.

[msongs]

5. manufactured hysteria will be kept going and going and going...

for iranian domestic purposes. the holocaust is an event, not a person.
Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[Behind the Aegis]

20. Published in Denmark...

...but it's the Jews fault! I am so fucking sick of this! It's always the Jews or Israel's fault! It is getting REALLY old! The 'funny' thing is most people don't even find this shit offensive.

The Protocols are alive and well in the 21st century! :puke:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

25. I agree

Everything gets blamed on the Jews. Just like in the past. Little has changed. It's sick.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

21. For a broader perspective on the cartoon controversy,

I suggest you go read three op ed pieces in Sunday's NY Times (they are free). You can find snips of each and links here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x190506

[Sarah Ibarruri]

24. The Arabs/Muslims are making Bush look good

They're working along with him on his despised plan to take over the Middle East. They're fueling dislike among countries that were with the Arabs/Muslims. It infuriates me to see how incredibly stupid Arabs/Muslims are being. We're trying to impeach Bush, trying to show that his occupation of Iraq is unconscionable, and the Arabs/Muslims are busy attacking countries that are on their side, like the Danes. They will succeed in turning the entire western world against them. It works against American libs as well. This is beyond ridiculous. They have no brain.

[iverglas]

28. yeah, eh?

The Arabs/Muslims are making Bush look good
They're fueling dislike among countries that were with the Arabs/Muslims. It infuriates me to see how incredibly stupid Arabs/Muslims are being.

I guess that's just like how it infuriates many people to see how incredibly stupid USAmericans are being with that whole invasion of Iraq thing. Imagine the dislike they're fuelling among countries that were once with the US.

Damn stupid evil USAmericans. I mean, that's what all right-thinking people say, right? USAmericans, they're all alike, and they're stupid and evil.

What's that you say? Not all USAmericans are stupid and evil? Well damn, then why aren't they stopping all the stupid evil ones from killing children and torturing adults in Iraq?

You know ... like all the non-stupid and non-evil Muslims/Arabs (there are some, right?) are responsible for stopping all the stupid/evil ones from doing what they do. They are responsible for that, right?

Some people really seem never to have heard about people in glass houses, and the logs in their own eyes, and plain old ordinary hypocrisy.