Witnesses: U.S. soldier shoots Iraqi official

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

http://www.news24houston.com/content/headlines/?ArID=18450&SecID=2

Baghdad, Iraq-(AP) -- The U.S. military is revealing more details about a shooting incident in the Iraqi capital, but there's no official word on who was shot.

Residents of a neighborhood in eastern Baghdad say a U.S. soldier shot and killed the head of the district's U.S.-appointed municipal council yesterday.

They say the Iraqi official (Muhanad al-Kaadi) was shot after arguing with a U.S. guard posted at the entrance to the municipal building.
<snip>
Not much info forthcoming on this at this point.

What a surprise.

The Bush Democracy 101: Shoot first ask questions later.

[La_Serpiente]

1. Oh my goodness

this reminds me of when the General shot the man right on the street during Vietnam.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

3. I just saw Nnnohli's post on how Soldiers killed another Iraqi official

and thought that I must have posted a dupe.

I didn't.

Is this how we are going to handle our "disappointment" with the way the current council is running things?

[Swing Voter]

10. The famous photo

You must be talking about the famous photo of a US General shooting a Vietnam soldier in the street in Vietnam. I don't remember the exact story, but as I remember it the soldier was an enemy spy dressed in a friendly uniform and he had already killed at least two friendly people. He had commited espionage and the US General shot him right there on the street. This was before the Geneva Convention. Then we hear about a US Colonel who very recently during the course of interogating an enemy spy shoots a gun over the guy's head and he breaks down and confesses that a major plan was under way to ambush a bunch of Americans. As a result, this plan was foiled and American lives were saved. The spy was never harmed but nevertheless the Colonel will be court-martialed for violating the Geneva Convention. Why don't we just drop the Geneva Convention? We're the only country that abides by it, so as a result we are protecting the enemy and putting ourselves at a disadvantage. Seriously.

[mike1963]

12. The Geneva Convention was adopted in 1949.

I remember it.

[bleedingheart]

17. The First Geneva Convention was adopted in 1864

What you remember was the 4th Geneva Convention that met in 1949.

The United States honored the Geneva Convention to the letter of the law during World War II. In doing so, we hoped that the Axis powers would treat our POW's as well as we treated theirs.

http://chapters.redcross.org/az/yuma/history/history.htm

If I recall Robert E. Lee said that a nation that can not take care of its POW's properly ought not to be involved in war.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

15. ??? WE are about the only industrialized nation ignoring the Geneva

convention. Where did you get this information, Rush Limbaugh?

[Sapphocrat]

16. Excuse me?

This was before the Geneva Convention. ... Why don't we just drop the Geneva Convention? ... Seriously.

You just flunked World History 101A, friend. Seriously.

[bleedingheart]

18. The Geneva Convention was started to protect the wounded

on the battlefield. Prior to that period there were no rules. So if you found enemy wounded you could just klll them rather than help them.

To toss out the Geneva Convention would be barbaric.

Started in 1864 there have been many revisions to the Geneva Convention. I suggest you look them up.

[No Passaran]

20. Agree to Disagree

While I do agree with you that we're one of the few nations respecting the Geneva Convention, I disagree with you in suggesting to drop the whole thing completely. I don't want blood on my hands, and Geneva Convention gives me the right to disobey orders if they're inhumane.

[Eloriel]

22. We're the only country that abides by it?

You have GOT to be kidding.

We don't come CLOSE to abiding by it. Over in LBN there's a thread right now about the tortures going on in Gitmo. There have been numerous instances of us violating Geneva, and those are just the few that made it to print. We violate the Geneva Convention all the damn time.

Unbelievable.

Eloriel

[markses]

23. Except it wasn't a US General, but a Vietnamese Colonel

Who did the shooting. And the prisoner wasn't a "spy in friendly uniform" but a plain old guerilla fighting in the city during the tet Offensive.

http://www.treefort.org/~cbdoten/rvntanks/080-4450.htm

Getcha damn facts straight.

[htuttle]

24. "Facts are stupid things."

-- President Ronald Reagan

:eyes:

[Matilda]

28. Excuse me?

The United States has repeatedly broken numerous articles of the
Fourth (1949) Geneva Convention, during the Viet Nam War, the 1919
Gulf War, in Bosnia, and now in Afghanistan and Iraq. Bombing
of civilian targets, such as clearly identified hospitals, not to
mention shooting at journalists in a hotel just doing their job,
bombing Al-Jazeera television station; killing soldiers out of combat
(Iraqui soldiers withdrawing from Kuwait in 1991); holding prisoners
without trial (Guantanemo Bay); and targeting objects necessry to
the survival of another country's civilian population (destroying
water purifying installations in Iraq in 1991, and subsequently
vetoing all U.N. Resolutions designed to help re-establish the
availability of clean water to the Iraqui people, thereby poving
that the original destruction was no accident. There are many more
such violations, just go to the United Nations pages, Human Rights
Watch, Amnesty International for starters to read up on what they
say.

That violations have been perpetrated by other nations doesn't make
it any less wrong for the U.S. to do the same.

[jobycom]

30. What's this other story?

You mention an American colonel who fired a shot over a prisoner's head to get him to reveal an ambush. I missed that one. You mean they are trying to court martial an American colonel for war crimes? Who can fill me in? That seems like it would be a bigger story. Did the information the informant provided under torture actually turn out to be true? Information gleened under torture is considered to be completely unreliable, though of course we've been relying on it for a while now. Probably the reason we are so good at protecting our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. (That's called sarcasm, dear.)

[Sufi Marmot]

31. The famous execution photo was of a Vietnamese general...

...not a US one. Not that it changes the end result...Photo and details here.

-SM

On edit...Markses beat me to it...

[Hobarticus]

32. Little history for you...

That was the Saigon police chief who killed a captured VC combatant in th street during the Tet offensive, if I'm thinking of the same photo you are.

The US already has little accord for the Geneva Convention. During WW2, Eisenhower declared German POWs as "disarmed enemy forces" so we wouldn't have to follow the Geneva accords. It's estimated some 800,000 German soldiers died of starvation, exposure and disease in American captivity, in one three-month period. Granted, it pales compared to what the Germans did, but it's hardly "American" behavior.

[Art_from_Ark]

33. It wasn't a US general who shot the guy

it was the Chief of Police of Saigon. And that was long after the Geneva Convention. Your account is full of Swiss cheese.

[reprobate]

2. This was covered in chapter 3 of "How to win friends and influence people"

I've begun to believe that the whole PNAC thing was a lie and everything that's been happening is all a plan for some other outcome. I find it impossible to accept the fact that all these exalted people 'leading' this country went into iraq with no plan at all. Hell, even a petty thief plans for an excape if things go bad.

How did this PNAC bunch ever gain this much power. They appear to be utterly incapable of any kind of forward thinking other than that of their particularly stupid ideology.

God help us.

[mikehiggins]

4. Its all in the BIble

Bush is out to start Armageddon and bring back Jesus so he can show everyone Dubya really is His choice for President.

Hey, it makes as much sense as the reasons Dubya will admit to.

[No Passaran]

19. lol

I'm pretty sure if Jesus came back today, Bush would be in trouble :)

[ThorsteinVeblen]

5. Public Summary Executions

We are making sure the Iraqi people know we still have "claws and teeth".

[jobycom]

6. We are all jumping to conclusions.

Maybe there was a genuine threat to the soldier, like, you know, the head of the council was a terrorist or looked at the soldier funny or something.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

7. Maybe he was "swarthy?"

[jobycom]

8. Yes, yes, exactly

You know how intimidating swarthy males can be. If a swarthy man in Iraq happens to exist, he might be a danger to our soldiers, and thus should be shot. Kind of like that farmer in the field last week.

[mbperrin]

9. Damn right!

Ain't we warned them to "lighten up"????

[Media_Lies_Daily]

11. He was told repeatedly to drop his Koran, throw his hands in the air,...

...and back away slowly.

His last words were, "But I work here!!"

[0007]

14. " looked at the soldier funny or something"

You mean funny ha ha or funny like junior?




The troops think junior is funny, just look at 'em.

[IndianaGreen]

26. Our GIs don't know Arabic and know even less about the culture

they have been in country since March and have learned little, if anything, in that entire time. What can you expect from soldiers that come from a culture that gave the world Big Macs and disposable lighters?

[Minstrel Boy]

13. If these here Eye-rackies wanna stop gettin' shot

they better brush up on their English learnin'.

[scarface2004]

21. he shot him just so...

he could watch a man die...he was bored!

[kayell]

25. Well that'll teach them damn fur'ners

to argue with a good red-blooded 'murkin soldier.

[rocketdem]

27. "terrorist"

You typed "official" but I'm sure that you meant "terrorist."

They're all terrorists. All of them. There ain't no difference between any of them no matter what pile of sand they crawled out of.

Paraphrased quote from my daily paper this weekend (their call in section):

I don't understand why everyone is going on about a reason for the war. They attacked us people! Doesn't anyone remember 9/11?

So, official, shop owner, mother, son, grandfather ... all the same thing -- terrorist.

[UpInArms]

29. another link -

http://www.etaiwannews.com/World/2003/11/11/1068514221.htm

U.S. troops shoot Baghdad councilman

n Sadr City, a poor, mainly Shiite quarter of eastern Baghdad, witnesses yesterday said that a U.S. soldier shot and killed the head of the district's U.S.-appointed municipal council in a weekend altercation.

this is the news that other countries read - this is where opinions of this country (the USofA) are formed - we are losing more than the hearts and minds of the Iraqis.