Ontario criticizes U.S. pollution plan

[CHIMO]

Ontario is using its pledge to close its coal-fired electricity plants as ammunition in a fight with the U.S. over pollution.

The provincial government formally filed a complaint with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency today condemning a proposal it claims will relax the rules on air pollution emissions.

"We believe that real efforts to address air pollution must be advanced, not reversed," Environment Minister Laurel Broten said at a news conference.

"These proposed amendments are bad news for the health of people living anywhere in our shared airshed, no matter if you've got a postal code or a zip code."

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&pubid=968163964505&cid=1140216610744&col=968705899037&call_page=TS_News&call_pageid=968332188492&call_pagepath=News/News

[Canuckistanian]

1. Good for the McGuinty government!

And for once, I disagree with Howard Hampton. This is a positive step and pointing out the faults of others not in our control is not helpful.

We're leading by example, not rhetoric.

[WhiteTara]

2. Yippy! who would have thought

Canada would challenge us...I wonder when * will bomb them with a little shock and awe :sarcasm:

[Canuckistanian]

3. Because we're rarely shocked

And seldom awed by this bunch of criminals.

[ConcernedCanuk]

4. I'd amend that to NEVER awed, well, except for their unlimited evil . .

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But yeah on that shocked thing - -

Rarely, but the Fire-storming of Baghdad was one of them biggies in the "shock" department

I'd like to add

That lately, the word "Impressed" doesn't come to mind when talking about the United States of America . . .

[Canuckistanian]

5. Agreed, wholeheartedly

This crew doesn't seem to impress anybody here.

I glad to live in a country where I'm not persecuted for being anti-Shrub.

[MrPrax]

6. LOL...

A few words come to mind, but, indeed, 'impressed' isn't one of them--in fact there is a certain fatigue factor trying to figure out which one's are the good ones...

[Kolesar]

7. thanks for posting this

I suppose you could place it into the E&E forum, too

[Harper_is_Bush]

8. SHUTUP CANADA

What are you gunna do? Shoot us with your toy guns? Send up all 7 of your soldiers and 3 planes to kick our butts? Your irrelavent and nobody cares what you say. You're like a retarded brother we like to pat on the head once in a while.
After all your anti-Americanism your lucky we don't just send up the Marines and take your oil for free!
Keep it up and we just might.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[ConcernedCanuk]

9. Gee - Do we gotta come down there and burn your White House ?

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AGAIN ????

:evilgrin:

[happyslug]

10. A BIG British Mistake.

Napoleon was exiled to Elba in April 1814 (After the battle of Leipzig) so the British had the troops and Ships to divert to attack the US. The Attack was a series of Punitive Raids attacking Washington, Baltimore in September 1814 and New Orleans in January 1815. While these troops and ships were tied up in North America, Napoleon ex caped Elba in March 1815 and started his 100 Days Campaign (Ending in the Battle of Waterloo in June 1815). Now the US and British had signed a peace treaty in just before the Battle of New Orleans ending the war, but the news did not reach the US till AFTER the battle of New Orleans, but the problem for the British was that their Navy and a good part of their Army was still in North America (If I remember right Havana Cuba) when Napoleon did his 100 days. Do to the prevailing winds it took a sailing shop about a week to go from Europe to North America but SIX WEEKS to go the other direction. Thus it was easy for the British to send troops to North America but hard to get them back to Europe. Thus these troops and ships were NOT available to the British in Europe to Fight Napoleon during the Crucial 100 days. Thus sending those troops to North America almost permitted Napoleon to come back to power and restart the Napoleonic Wars (Yes if this sounds like Bush today, you are correct, the US Army is tied up in Iraq and if the US really needed them it will take 3-6 months to disengaged the troops from IRaq and move them to where their are truly needed, once used troops can NOT be disengaged and shipped to more important areas in a few days, both in 1815 and today).

As to the actual burning of Washington, it proved no Strategic importance, without Baltimore and Norfolk Virginia (Both still in US Hands during the raiding expedition) the British could NOT hold Washington so the British had to abandoned Washington and attack Baltimore (Which failed). After that Failure the British headed for Cuba and Supplies to attack New Orleans (Which also repulsed the British). Thus the Attack proved meaningless. More important was the Battles were the Battle of Put-in-bay on Lake Erie where the US destroyed the British ships on the Great Lakes and the US Victory in Lake Champlain giving the US control of Lake Champlain (The Duke of Wellington said without control of either body of Water any invasion of the US was Doomed thus these battles stopped any British attack in 1815 and afterward).

As to WHY the US went to war in 1812, it was NOT to Protect New England seaman (New England opposed the War) but Mid-westerns who wanted Tecumseh dead. Tecumseh was head of the Native Americans in what is now Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan (The old American North West) and had supported from Kentucky and the Native Americans from the South (Through not the Cherokees). This grand alliance of the Native Americans was opposed by the white Settlers of the Midwest who wanted it destroyed and wanted war with Britain do to the British supply of Muskets and Whiskey to the Native Americans. Once Tecumseh was killed i the Battle of Monraviantown (Sometime called the battle of the Thames River) in want is now Ontario, the war aim of the Settlers was achieved and they went home (Through Toronto, than York, Ontario was burned to the ground, through this seems to be more frustration of the Mid-West Militia NOT being allowed to go home than any organized attempt to burn Toronto). Thus by 1814 when Napoleon was exiled to Elba The US and Britain had no reason to remain at war, the US had achieved its objective, Tecumseh and his Native American Federation was dead in 1813, and the British no longer needed the extra income from control of the Fur trade in the US to finance its war against Napoleon (and the cost to reestablish the control of the Native Americans not worth the above mention costs to undo the Naval battles on the Lakes of North America).

As to the Canadians in the war of 1812 (as it is called in the United States), you did have some Canadians who fought on the side of the British but the over all tendency of the Canadians were neutral to the war (if not outright pro-US). The Canadians ruling class had basically come from the American South after the Revolution (with some from the Atlantic Colonies and even a few from New England). These had supported Britain in the Revolution and continued to support the British during the War of 1812. For example Roger's Rangers of the French and Indian war fame was formed from New-Englanders and New Yorkers during that war, but Roger re-formed it out of the Atlantic Colonies (Pennsylvania, New York and New Jersey) in 1775 to fight for the British. It ended up fighting in the American South for the British and surrendered at Yorktown. After the war its soldiers were settled in Ontario (and retain to this day its name during the Revolution "The Queen's Rangers". It had a good reputation during the war of 1812.

On the other hand most of the Small farmers who Settled in Ontario between 1783 and 1812 come from New England. New England had been almost 90% for the Revolution (Compared to the 2/3 support in the Atlantic and the American South being almost split on the issue of the Revolution). Why did the New Englanders move to Ontario? Free and cheap land offered by the British. From 1774 till 1830 the immigration into North America was stopped (First by the Revolution, then the Napoleonic Wars). Some people did migrant during this period but not like the Colonial period or the period between 1830 and 1920. Most population growth in North American was domestic (This was a period of large families). Once someone came of age he and his wife needed find a farm for themselves. Thus New Englanders went west along the Mohawk Valley to the Great Lakes and settled on both sides of the Great Lakes depending on who was offering the best land for the best price (The Ohio Valley tended to be settled from people of the Atlantic States and upper south Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, Virginia and Maryland).

What this means is by the time of the War of 1812, both sides of the Great Lakes were settled by New Englanders whose Fathers and Grand-Fathers had fought at bunker hill and Saratoga against the British. South of the Great Lakes the former New Englanders where supported by people from the Atlantic states and the Upper South (It was the lower south that was more 50/50, as you went North the support for the Revolution increased).

North of the Great Lakes you had ex-New Englanders supported by British Regulars, Native Americans and the sons and grandsons of American Tories from the Atlantic and southern Coastal States. The British during the War of 1812 had a problem with the Ontario Militia. The Majority of the Militia (the ex-New Englanders) would show up (they had all given oaths of Allegiance when they took their lands) but they heart were NOT in fighting their fellow Americans (as they saw them). These were the Majority of the troops available to the British in Ontario during the US Invasion of 1813. They did well in taking Fort Detroit (but no one counted on them to fire or be fired upon) but once the US caught on to the British efforts to hide who was a Militiaman or not the US just ignored the Militia and went after the British Regulars and Native Americans. This lead to Tecumseh's death in the Battle of Monraviantown. Now the US Militia was motivated to kill Tecumseh, once he was dead the war was over as far as they were concerned and started to go home. Thus did a US army reach Toronto? a Mob of people who called themselves the US Army did, but all control had been lost once everyone knew Tecumseh was dead. That is the problem with Militia, it is good when motivated but terrible when it is not. The Ontario Militia showed this during the Battle of Monraviantown and the US militia showed this after the battle.

[ConcernedCanuk]

11. Wow, great post there slugger - I read it twice, and saved it for later

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I'll have to read it a few more times to digest it all . .

And thanx so much for taking the time to type all that!!

:thumbsup:

[athena]

12. If you really want to learn about the 1812 war ...

and not just buy the fictional American version, read Pierre Berton's The Invasion of Canada and http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/item.asp?Item=978038565838&Catalog=Books&Ntt=pierre+berton+1812&N=35&Lang=en&Section=books&zxac=1">Flames Across the Border.

As you will find out when you read these books, the real American reason for invading Canada in 1812 was to conquer it. As Jefferson said, "the acquisition of Canada this year, as far as the neighborhood of Quebec, will be a mere matter of marching, and will give us the experience for the attack on Halifax, the next and final expulsion of England from the American continent." While there were small victories and defeats on both sides, it is very hypocritical of Americans to claim that the British (note that they never say Canada) lost the war because they didn't take Baltimore and expand Canadian territory. The Americans' goal had been to take over Canada, and they failed at that miserably. They never attempted to attack Canada again. Furthermore, while Canada technically belonged to Britain at the time, it got very little help from Britain until very late in the war.

I think it's a real pity that more Canadians don't learn about our history. It's fascinating, and very addictive. The war of 1812-1814 was one war that Canadians can be truly proud of -- and yet, whenever some American spews out some nonsense about how in 1812 a very weak America defended its liberty against a strong Britain, the typical Canadian buys it right away, no questions asked. Please, do yourself a favor and learn the history from the Canadian perspective. (Incidentally, if you read the books above, you will notice interesting similarities between America's attitude toward Canada in 1812 and its attitude toward Iraq in 2003.)

[CHIMO]

13. Thank You

For the references.

I tried the second link but it didn't connect so thought I would find it.

http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/item.asp?Item=978038565838&Catalog=Books&Ntt=pierre+berton&N=35&Lang=en&Section=books&zxac=1

[The2ndWheel]

14. Cute

We don't give a damn about our own citizens, let alone those of Canadia. So good luck with that.

"bad news for the health of people living anywhere"

Ah, but which people? The fleshy kind, or the steal kind? Only one matters.