Billionaire Soros: 'Ousting Bush central focus of my life'

[phrenzy]

       “IT IS THE central focus of my life,” Soros said, his blue eyes settled on an unseen target. The 2004 presidential race, he said in an interview, is “a matter of life and death.”

Soros, who has financed efforts to promote open societies in more than 50 countries around the world, is bringing the fight home, he said. On Monday, he and a partner committed up to $5 million to MoveOn.org, a liberal activist group, bringing to $15.5 million the total of his personal contributions to oust Bush.

Soros believes a “supremacist ideology” guides this White House. He hears echoes in its rhetoric of his childhood in occupied Hungary. “When I hear Bush say, ‘You’re either with us or against us,’ it reminds me of the Germans.” It conjures up memories, he said, of Nazi slogans on the walls, Der Feind Hort mit (“The enemy is listening”): “My experiences under Nazi and Soviet rule have sensitized me,” he said in a soft Hungarian accent.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/991865.asp?0cv=CB10

---

I hope we have our Scaife - Of course, the difference is - this guy doesn't have to MANUFACTURE and distort dirt on Shrub. He just has to be honest.

[The Zanti Regent]

1. GO SOROS GO!

Give Bush the same treatment you gave to John Major!

[Don_G]

2. I Think He's Right

It's hard to argue with a guy that's been through two dictatorships and remembers.

[Born Free]

24. Pleasantly surprised

I saw him on "NOW" with Bill Moyers a few weeks ago and I was hoping he would give to Move-On. He is limited in what he can give directly to any candidate, but he can pour money into organizations like Move-On. However, that doesn't give any of us an excuse not to donate all we can afford to Move-On, the more powerful Move-On becomes the more say we, the people have in politics

[sam sarrha]

65. maybe that is the reasoning behind the hemorrhaging of jobs .. to prevent

the working class from giving money to the DNC campaign. I'm broke.

[FrenchieCat]

3. Thank God....

For "some" Billionaires!

[Hieronymus]

4. You go

George Soros. What a man, to stand up and put his money where his mouth is. Mr. Soros :yourock:

[Melinda]

5. It's been a hopeful week, and it's only looking up.

This is philanthropy and social activism at its best. Thank you George Soros, thank you on behalf of my children, my friends, our party, our world -- thank you from the bottom of my little liberal heart. :loveya:

[madrchsod]

6. 5mill

to moveon! now that`s money talks and bullshit walks...

[proud patriot]

7. Be sure to rate the article at the bottom

of the page at the link .

[tedoll78]

8. 17 battleground states.

If ACT is planning to spend $75 million in those states, WOW.

I'm pretty sure that this is more than was spent for Dem GOTV in 2000. If turnout in liberal areas is even a mere 5 or 10% higher than it is in GOP areas, our chances get much, much greater for winning a state.

Soros.. thank you so very very very much!

[RamboLiberal]

9. Sweet - this is great

and recognizes the neocons agenda for what it is. And isn't it sweet that the repukes are crying foul now that we have "good" version of Rupert Murdoch and Dicky Mellon Scaife.

I'm chuckling with irony at the "Soros Doctrine". I like that he is giving to Dean, Kerry, Gephardt, and Clark, imho the guys who have the greatest chance of ousting Bush.

Asked whether he would trade his $7 billion fortune to unseat Bush, Soros opened his mouth. Then he closed it. The proposal hung in the air: Would he become poor to beat Bush?

He said, "If someone guaranteed it."

Most of us don't have $7 billion - but we feel the same. I just hope he puts a lot of that money into a media outlet ala Faux but for real "fair and balanced" news.

Also I see Rove is now scared that Dean will be able to compete by turning down matching funds - so the bastard is planning on raising even more money - he thought the Dem would be impotent after the primaries. I hope Soros gives $300 million or better to organizations like Moveon.org and just blast Whistle-ass out of the water with ads.

[JailBush]

23. Sounds like a cool guy, but one of the candidates he supports is

Gephardt! What's THAT all about???

[mouse7]

79. Gephardt is okay.

To paraphrase Al Sharpton, all the potential Dem nominees are FAR better than the Chimp. Even Holy Joe.

Seems clear Soros will support the eventual nominee. Which of the 11 Soros supports is far less critical than Soros being on board to help the eventual nominee.

[IndependantThinker]

122. Re: Sweet - this is great

Quote-Would he become poor to beat Bush?
Most of us don't have $7 billion - but we feel the same.-Unquote.


-You're definitely not speaking for me. I haven't found anyone yet who I would go penniless for just for them to be in power. Are you going to be better off with no money and Bush out of office? I don't think so. You may not like Bush's politics, which is fine. But I don't feel like any of the Dem candidates are SO much better that I should go broke just to have them in the office.

[hang a left]

124. You really need to read the whole thread. Are you really an

Independent thinker? Really? Where DID you come from, I don't recognize you. You just might be in over your head.

[IndependantThinker]

131. I read the thread, what am I missing?

I am new, so forgive if I'm missing something here. I've been reading the posts and thought I'd put my two cents in.

I do agree with you about Dean. I would hope Dean wins the Demo race, not because I agree with everything he says but because I believe him to be the best alternative to Bush. By alternative, I mean that he isn't "Bush-lite" to take a quote from one of the candidates, though I don't remember who. Probably Dean. But the best way to challenge Bush and the GOP in the ad campaign is to have equal funding. I don't believe in a ceiling in how much a candidate can spend, donors have a right to have their donations count. So Dean was smart to turn down the matching funds so he can compete with Bush if/when he has the Demo nomination.

[hang a left]

133. I am sorry, but I didn't say anything about any presidential

candidate. This thread is about something a whole lot bigger than who is gonna be president.

[IndependantThinker]

137. sounds very sinister!

I read the title "Billionaire Soros: Ousting Bush my central focus in life", or something to that effect. You quoted him as saying he'd go broke if someone guaranteed that Bush is out of office. You also said that "a lot of us feel the same way". I just don't agree with that, and I think its scary that someone does feel that way. How did the Egyptian slaves feel by being penniless just so the pharoahs could have their golden sarcaphages? (sp? - I'm not a good speller, sorry.)

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hang a left]

33. Thank you No Labels. Soros associations with people like

Kissinger and the Rothschilds causes me great concern. He has an agenda, and I am not sure that it aligns itself with ours.

[truth2power]

41. Thanks, nolables.

As soon as I clicked on this thread I was trying to remember something I'd read about Soros' agenda.

I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth, but at the same time, I'd sure be grateful if someone more in the know could give more info as to his real agenda.

[mouse7]

77. ummm... "....Soros destroyed the British pound..." Don't think so.

British Pound looks just fine. GBr's economy had been very good for quite a while after 9/92 until the world economy started going downhill at the turn of the Millenium.

Whatever damage the author thinks Soros caused eveidentally was obviously overstated by the author.

[Tinoire]

152. Soros SHATTERED the Bank of England... & now we war & thieve

In 1992 the British pound fell so sharply that Britain was forced to leave the Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM). What do you think was behind this famous fall? Yes, you guessed it, professional money! The money in question was the Quantum Fund, run by the renowned speculator George Soros.

He and his analysts had spotted a potential weakness in the ERM. During the weeks before the massive sell-off of the British pound, George Soros was busy exchanging seven billion US dollars for German Deutschemarks.

When the time was right he moved in fast, selling the British pound. As the pound fell the Deutschemark rose, creating huge profits for Soros. As soon as news of this got out the other professionals followed suit. The onslaught was overwhelming and too much for Norman Lamont, the then UK Chancellor of the Exchequer.

In an attempt to halt the slide Lamont resorted to selling some of Britain's gold reserves. He put up interest rates three times during one day, but this was still no match for the professionals.

<snip>

http://www.tradetowin.com/associates/profit_trading/undeclared_secrets/Undeclared_Secrets.htm


That's because these other financiers have used their talent and capital to do well by doing good -- in troubled times they were the strong hands who turned panic into opportunity. But Soros is different: In recent times of chaos in the global markets, Soros' strong hands always seem to hold a smoking gun. He has profited not by quelling panic, but by promoting it.

Soros is best known as the man who broke the Bank of England. His bear-raid on the British pound in 1992 precipitated the collapse of the European monetary system, and resulted in the transfer of billions of pounds from Her Majesty's Treasury to Soros' coffers. He's said to have done it again in the Asian currency crises of 1996 and 1998.

His failures have been just as spectacular, and just as controversial. During the stock market crash of October 19, 1987, since known as Black Monday, Soros became intensely bearish -- he dumped S&P 500 futures on the opening the following day, thus personally contributing to its aftermath, Terrible Tuesday. Of course, the market recovered later in the day, and never again traded much lower. This year, Soros found technology stocks too hot to handle, and dumped them into the spring's Nasdaq crash -- the Composite Index now stands more than 25% above the panic lows.

<snip>
In the European monetary system crisis of 1992, the Bank of England was struggling to defend sterling's price against the German mark as part of its duties under the decades-old Bretton Woods Agreement. Soros took a very public position that the post-Cold War world had changed thanks to the inflationary effects of Germany's reunification, and that the traditional currency relationships would have to change, too.

He forecasted a chaotic break, and then put the theory of reflexivity to work: He risked billions shorting sterling, driving its price lower. He used financial markets to "affect the so-called fundamentals which they are supposed to reflect." Soros, and other speculators who piled on after him, forced sterling down in such a massive assault that the Bank of England could no longer afford to support it. Finally the Bank cried "uncle" and the monetary system was shattered.

<snip>

http://www.thestreet.com/comment/openbook/1041598.html

[Judi Lynn]

11. Fantastic! He's no Republican!

(snip)

The RNC is not the only group irked by Soros. Fred Wertheimer, president of Democracy 21, which promotes changes in campaign finance , has benefited from Soros’s grants over the years. Soros has backed altering campaign finance, an aide said, donating close to $18 million over the past seven years.
“There’s some irony, given the supporting role he played in helping to end the soft money system,” Wertheimer said. “I’m sorry that Mr. Soros has decided to put so much money into a political effort to defeat a candidate. We will be watchdogging him closely.”
An aide said Soros welcomes the scrutiny. Soros has become as rich as he has, the aide said, because he has a preternatural instinct for a good deal.
Asked whether he would trade his $7 billion fortune to unseat Bush, Soros opened his mouth. Then he closed it. The proposal hung in the air: Would he become poor to beat Bush?
He said: “If someone guaranteed it.” (snip/...)

I was startled seeing the photo MSNBC opted to run with the article, and wonder if it wasn't their passive-agressive way of striking out at him, to avenge their right-wing masters! I've seen him in interviews on tv, and he REALLY doesn't look like that.

I found a more representative photo of the guy:

[nolabels]

13. Neither was Stalin or Mao

or even quite a few other power hungry fools. If the US thought ingrandizing wealth was a good idea, don't you think it would still be part of England?

[Judi Lynn]

15. Not sure what you mean

I looked up "aggrandizing" http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary to see if I could get another take on "aggrandizing" which would make any sense in your context.

It would help if you filled in some of the missing pieces.

[nolabels]

17. The Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI)

Hey sorry, I can't spell and I am always suspicious of people with money. This guy is in the thick of it with these folks, don't be fooled by him being muddy the waters so you don't get a good look at him, he does this on purpose.

BCCI was known as the spooks bank till it collapsed; Sorros had a big hand in that helping go that way. Just because he is one of the Bag Men does not make him any cleaner. He funded a lot of things and make them like they are, but at least look at some of the results after he packed it in and took his money.

Btw spell check works okay, just forgot to use it


Click on the that link above or just check some of these threads if you need more background on BCCI

Kissinger & BCCI spells BUSH & 9-11
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=377323

Connect the Dots, America!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=133055

George W Bush connection to the BCCI scandal ?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=157573

[Judi Lynn]

21. Close to Kissinger, yikes

Did a fast scan of your links, and a few articles therein, saw some things I've never heard. He's had a circle of acquaintances who could seem a little creepy, like Kissinger. Who would admit even knowing him?

STILL, he advocates pitching out a true monster. If he can help, more power to him, I hope.

[lostnfound]

26. I hope some spills over into tossing the Republican congress out

for supporting Patriot Act, the war, etc.

[KittyWampus]

51. Please Don't Fall For "Guilt By Association"

It is a lowly tactic which polarizes and ultimately leaves one with little in the way of options.

[hang a left]

53. As they say "you are what you eat."

[nolabels]

56. LOL and so close to turkey day too

I still remember that long ago day when pops told me to get the turkeys out of the rain. When I asked him why, he said they would drown. When I went out and looked, there they were staring straight up into the sky, beaks spread wide. Just goes to prove turkeys and thunder storms don't mix

[haele]

61. Especially since everyone who has that sort of money

runs in the same circles - especially European money. I would be suprised if he didn't know Kissenger, any of the other BCCI types, any "Bilderburgers" - heck, Russian Mafia/KGB and CIA types, etc, etc, etc.

The world was small after WWII and the boom in transportation and communications technology, and has been getting exponetially smaller by the week, it seems.
The fact is, if you're going to do business and succeed, you do business with those who can help you succeed. Which means if you've got any bone of humanity left in you after clawing your way up, you can work to change the system from within.

Whatever Soros' business associates are by necessity, the telling point to his personal charactor is to examine how his companies do business (trustworthyness, environmental responsiblity, ethics in whatever field they are specialized in), how they treat their employees in terms of responsiblity, initiative, and benefits, and how they treat their clients as well as what particular activities Soros personally espouses.

The fact that he had a drive to make successful international businesses should not be held against him, any more than a successful medical researcher should be looked down on because he or she might have the drive towards something "frivolous" like human pattern baldness rather than burn ward dermatology.

Taint by business association went out with taint by profession. To do business nowdays, especially in contracts and international interests, you're going to do business with shady charactors and outright criminals. The trick is trying to mitigate damages to both the customer as well as any collateral interests, like the environment, or innocent neighboring towns, or the client country's poverty and education levels...

You aren't going to change your client's ethics or policies; you just have to keep true to your own.

That he wants to unseat Bush and has shown a distain for dictatorships in general is a good sign. He might personally be an prejudiced asshole, but he's generally shown himself to be a reasonably ethical one in terms of his circle of influence and causes.

Since I don't believe a literal Santa Claus can exsist in an adult world, I understand that every philanthropist has a motivation that will need to be reconciled with the direction they give their time and resources.

I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt as to his current motivations. Becuase he's obviously an opinionated hard-charger type, I'd still keep an eye on him - just as I would Bill Gates or any other wealthy personality or outspoken celebrity ...

Haele

[hang a left]

63. FYI.....Soros is a Bilderburger.

[haele]

68. So is Clinton...

(shrug)
Again, I wouldn't be suprised at all - it's an international Euro-based "business" association. It has to do with the area of business Soros is in and whether or not he wants to remain doing business on that level.
Now, if you tell me he's one of the Senior Knights Marshall of the Templers and has custody of the Holy Spear, I might be a bit more impressed.

Sorry if I seem unconcerned, but either you go with the premise everyone with over a hundred million dollars worth of business wealth on the international scale is an evil bastard conspirator because of what noses need to be browned to get business done, or we realize that on that level, every businessman and political figure needs to have associations which due to the perversities in human nature will have it's share of moral thugs, ideogogs, and arrogant priviledged snots - along with those people who genuinely value human nature and acheivement and work to improve the world in general - as well as picking up a bit of "reward" for what they consider a job well done along the way. (The latter is often seen in people who are natual leaders and have been lucky enough to have the opportunity and ability to manifest their personal visions.)
From what I have seen, the "Bilderburgers" aren't very lockstep at all; seems with what is happening worldwide, are at least three, perhaps as many as five factions pulling that business association in various policy directions. Even if two possible factions (Carslyle and the basic EU/euro-economics factions) may have ascendency right now, the Bilderburger's supposed influencial actions in the past ten years have shown a marked amount of infighting and nullification of previous policies.

My take - Soros has an equal amount of philanthropy and selfishness in him - but more importantly, his savvy for his best interests are running parallel to what are best for the world in general. Right now, the shrub's policies seem bent on leading us to a Fourth Reich, and I'm perfectly willing to accept Soros' aid in combatting that.

That doesn't mean I trust him with my best interests over his all the time, but in this fight, personally, I'd cautiously welcome his support - just as I would any other successful businessman, celebrity, or politician who has both a partial investment as well as full ownership in several of "the dogs in this fight". I'm just not sure how much he values the investment he's put into my dog, even as I'm grateful he's apparently investing...

Just my observation from the years of sitting in the international policy cheap seats. I'm here to tell you - the program is still way too expensive and shows the mangegment is still playing last years games, the beer is flat, and both the popcorn and peanuts are stale, but all in all - it's still an interesting game to watch.

Haele

[hang a left]

73. Yes, and so is Kissinger. And I don't trust either of them either.

Look, it is very hard not to like Clinton, I have adored him at times.

But..........Don't trust him

[Avalon Sparks]

106. Great posts Haele~

You put it all into perspective so wonderfully.

[belle]

92. For now, his goal IS mine: unseat Bush. That is enough.

I believe him when he says he fears what Bush is doing to the world. We NEED people like this right now. We need *everybody.* And lots and lots of money, let's face it, doesn't hurt. Sure, I'm sure he's not pure as the driven snow--there are very few billionaires who don't have *something* murky in their pasts to account for all that dough (J.K. Rowling may be the one exception). With all due respect: at this point, so the fuck what? He wants the guy GONE. The CIA wants the guy GONE. Working-class people want the guy GONE. Soccer moms want the guy GONE. White collar executives want the guy GONE. Middle-of-the-road Democrats want the guy GONE. Gun-totin' libertarians want the guy GONE. Peacenik Greens want the guy GONE. Four-star generals want the guy GONE. Hell, even a good bunch of died-in-the-wool Republicans want the guy GONE. EVERYBODY and their DOG WANTS THE GUY GONE. It may not be an *easy* goal, but it damn sure is a straightforward one, and one on which we can, I think, all agree. We're going to have to, anyway.

*After* that, it may be business as usual. We can all go back to arguing bitterly about our respective ideas of what "progress" might mean, whether it's okay to trust rich people, white people, straight people, men, Northerners, Southerners, liberals, moderates, Christians, atheists, astrologers, what have you. But none of this is going to make a damn bit of difference unless and until BUSH AND EVERY DAMN ONE OF THE MURDEROUS FREAKS IN HIS CABINET ARE GONE GONE GONE FROM OFFICE.

because either he goes, baby, or we *all* do.

Soros knows that; I'm down with Soros.

that is all.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

170. Joseph Stalin was our ally against Hitler

If Soros is willing to go to the barricades against Bush, he's my kind of person. Long term relationship? We'll talk later.

[nolabels]

179. If you ask some they would say that in ...........

many ways Stalin was worse than Hitler

http://www.newsweekly.com.au/articles/2003jun28_cover.html

COVER STORY: Counting Stalin's victims 50 years on
by John Ballantyne
Printed in Issue:28 June 2003

March 5 2003 marked the 50th anniversary of the death of one of the greatest mass-murderers of all time - the Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin.
(snip)
For many people in the former USSR, war did not end in 1945. Partisan warfare continued for some years after the war as people of Ukraine and the Baltic States resisted attempts by the Soviet Red Army and secret police to re-impose Communist tyranny on their nations.

Non-Russian casualties

After the so-called Great Patriotic War of 1941-45, Soviet propaganda glorified specifically "Russian" sacrifices, but belittled the terrible human and material losses sustained by the non-Russian nations of the former USSR, notably Belarus and Ukraine.

Yet even Soviet sources confirmed in 1987 that, although wartime military losses were mainly Russian, the civilian losses were overwhelmingly non-Russian. The Wehrmacht never occupied any substantial region of Russia for very long, but it overran and devastated Belarus and, above all, Ukraine whose wartime losses amounted to 5-6 million dead. (The Independent, December 29, 1987).

American foreign correspondent Edgar Snow who visited the USSR in 1945 said that the "whole titanic struggle, which some are apt to dismiss as 'the Russian glory', has in all truth and in many costly ways been first of all a Ukrainian war ... No single European country has suffered deeper wounds to its cities, its industry, its farmlands and its humanity." (Saturday Evening Post, January 27, 1945). Yet, as Norman Davies has commented:
(snip)

[Tinoire]

140. Soros IS a Neo-Con. More refined but a Neo-Con nonetheless

He and his friends are scurrying to minimize collateral damage. His MO now is no overt wars, a careful amassing of power through education and the control of the press, no dangerous splits in the US/UK/Israel capitalist alliance, achieving victory through financial and trade blackmail.

Beware of thieves bearing gifts.

One mafia don running out another.

Carlyle, Carlye, Carlye... There is nothing to celebrate here... These people are exploiting our anger to retain their power.

The majority of Americans want Bush out and these guys know it. They can not afford to have us place a real choice of the people in office. We do not need their money to win this election. They need to buy us with their money to run a bunch of well crafted commercials to inluence the election process and eventually push their candidate They can not afford for one of their own NOT to be in office.

This is no gift...

The horse is at the gates of Troy.

If my life depended on these elections, I would slit my wrists now.

[DrBlix]

147. Tinoire is right don't count your blessings

just yet. Swapping one devil for another.
.
FYI....read up on our new found friend Soros.
.
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/TAL307A.html
.
http://www.womensgroup.org/davos_20000903.html
.
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/bl-o-95.html
.
http://www.canadiandimension.mb.ca/extra/d1207hc.htm
.
http://amsterdam.nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-9702/msg00007.html
.
http://www.ljudmila.org/nettime/zkp4/49.htm

[Tinoire]

155. Welcome to DU! Good stuff there!

:toast:

Thank you. Will read these in the morning. Loved this one!

THE WAR AGAINST THE SERBS AND THE NEW AMERICAN FASCISM

<snip>
Closely related to the human rights organization are the
so-called NGO's or non-governmental organizations or
foundations. There is a massive literature that already
exists on this extraordinarily sinister phenomenon which
goes back to the early part of this century. The
Rockefellers, who played a big role in establishing so many
of these foundations spoke of foundations as being force
greater than governments for achieving the political
objectives of the super-rich elites and their corporations.
The most infamous of these in Europe today is the Soros foundation,
established by the billionaire currency trader George Soros,
reputed to be the richest man in the world. Through
foundations such as the Soros, a country can be effectively
destroyed from within. The Soros foundation has bought off
important figures throughout Eastern Europe and financed the
training and activities of tens of thousands of young people
indoctrinated in the most reactionary and totalitarian
notions of American culture. In simple terms, Soros has
created a new generation of future leaders -- a fifth column
-- prepared to take over the governments and countries of
Eastern Europe within the next several years and to govern
them like banana republics, completely according to the
dictates of Washington. Recently the Soros foundation branch
in Belgrade has been shut down for the simple reason that it
financed the most extreme pro-American and treasonous
activities imaginable for the last three years, supporting
every U.S. policy against the Serbs including sanctions and
bombings! If this isn't sabotage, destabilization and
treason on a large scale then nothing is.

Also connected to the imposition of American sponsored
foundations is the pressure on smaller countries by the
United States to allow a degree of political pluralism and
diversity of opposition parties in the country it seeks to
destabilize that is itself maintains. Thus, while in the
U.S. there are no political alternatives to the so-called
"two party system" whatsoever, the U.S. insists on and helps
to finance literally hundreds of opposition parties and
organizations in Yugoslavia today, thereby creating
political climate of extreme uncertainty, political
paralysis and near ungovernability. Many of these political
opposition organizations got their start through Soros.

Of course, one of the very most important methods of
world conquest in the New World Order is the use of the
United Nations and its deployment of so-called
"peacekeepers." With the collapse of the Soviet Union, the
UN is today completely controlled by the U.S. and its
allies. As such, the UN has been transformed into one of the
most powerful and multifaceted weapons in the American
arsenal for the establishment of the New World Order (i.e.:
U.S. global conquest). It was through the UN that the U.S.
was able to impose sanctions and a naval embargo on the
Serbs and make it binding on all nations. It is through the
UN that international foreign policy of war against the
Serbs is harmonized. And, of course, the imposition of UN
"peacekeepers" in Yugoslavia was a key turning point in the
conflict because it handcuffed Serbs militarily and
established the basis for military occupation of the region
against the Serbs. The UN acts under the false pretense of
neutrality, but they are anything but neutral in the civil
war in Yugoslavia. Their task from the outset was to militarily
weaken and handcuff first the Yugoslav army and then the
Croatian Serb and Bosnian Serb armies. In this way they
prepared the way for the military build-up of the Croatian
and Bosnian Muslim armies that were covertly financed,
armed, trained and even led by (in order of importance) the
U.S., Germany, Austria, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Iran, and
ultimately the military defeat of the Serb forces there.
The U.N. forces provided the necessary cover and entree
through which the U.S. military collected intelligence data
on the Serb forces and installations prior to the NATO
bombings and for the covert arming of the Bosnian Muslim
army that went on throughout the sham "arms embargo."

<snip>

What is this war really about?

Having just returned from Yugoslavia I am an eyewitness
not just to a war, but to a genocide. I know very well how
this term is deliberately misused today by the media and
governments to rewrite history, denying the real crimes
while exculpating the real criminals. This is precisely what
the Bosnian Muslims, the Croats, the Germans and the
Americans have done. And why not? They are the biggest
genocidal murderers of all time! Americans don't know and
aren't told that the Croatian and Bosnian Muslim
concentration camp of Jasenovac nearly a million people
systematically murdered between 1941 and 1944, including
most of Yugoslavia's Jews. Nor that two Bosnian Muslim SS
Divisions were raised in World War II to murder the Serbs of
Bosnia. But for those of us who do know the history of the
Balkans, and who know what is happening today, the term
genocide is appropriate for describing what is being done
and being planned for the Serbs. For if genocide means the
deliberate destruction and murder of a people, this
describes exactly what this war is all about.

<snip>
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/bl-o-95.html

[Classical_Liberal]

169. Not everything that is written is true. Fox lies alot and this doesn't

look very honest either. The fact is the Serbian leadership were doing genocide on the Bosnian muslims.

[Classical_Liberal]

167. How come Soros is writing articles denouncing neocons then?

? You may not like him, but he is no neocon.

[Tinoire]

171. Bush hinmself would denounce the neo-cons if he wanted something

I don't trust these people. The company they keep and their actions speak louder than words.

Look at how Carlyle has been trying to convince us they're nothing but a harmless investment club. Soros is part of Carlyle... When trillions are at stake, economies ruined all over the world and wars raging from which you'll profit, what are a few mere words?

Like these words back in July:

Bush Must Push for Africa Oil Transparency

U.S. President George W.Bush can best help Africa by urging U.S. firms active there to reveal oil and mining rights payments, a global campaign led by billionaire George Soros said on Wednesday.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=reutersEdge&storyID=3060059

[Classical_Liberal]

186. How do we know what you posted is true

Look at this report.

Democracy Now Funded by Soros OSI & Carlyle Group/CIA Funds Fair Jeff Cohen

http://members.sitegadgets.com/wcoca/board/226.html I am sorry but some stories on the net are just really smelly.

[Tinoire]

192. Yeah but that's a rant. I didn't post any rants

just articles...

But I understand your concern... Just keep reading is all I can say.

Eventually you get to the point where you know enough of the facts to know how reliable the analyses and articles are.

Of course you could just choose to get a life... That would be my recommendation. Not get but keep because when you get to the point I'm talking about, it means Bush as stolen everything from you.

Happy reading... though I would prefer to wish you a happy life. :)

[nolabels]

177. And he also fills the vacuum made at the other end so any of........

the real people like a Castro or Chaves don't show up

He is in the thick of it with them; he might even lead the charge at them some times, but if you notice not too much comes from it. His neoliberal allegiances like the NeoCons it to the money

I pasted the end of it but its quite long and informative with footnotes. The first few paragraphs might be very interesting too

http://www.canadiandimension.mb.ca/extra/d1207hc.htm
George Soros, Imperial Wizard
(snip)
Sorosian innumeracy: counting to bolster and defend U.S. foreign policy.

Soros is very worried about the decline in the world capitalist system and he wants to do something about it, now. He recently said: "I can already discern the makings of the final crisis.... Indigenous political movements are likely to arise that will seek to expropriate the multinational corporations and recapture the 'national' wealth." 69

Soros is seriously suggesting a plan to circumvent the United Nations. He proposes that the "democracies of the world ought to take the lead and forge a global network of alliances that could work with or without the United Nations." If he were psychotic, one might think he was having an episode. But the fact is, Soros' assertion that "The United Nations is constitutionally incapable of fulfilling the promises contained in the preamble of its charter," reflects the thinking of such reactionary institutions as the American Enterprise Institute. 70 Though many conservatives refer to the Soros network as left-wing, on the question of U.S. affiliation with the United Nations Soros is on the same page as the likes of John R. Bolton, Undersecretary of State for Arms Control and International Security Affairs, who, with "any Republicans in Congress-believe that nothing more should be paid to the UN system." 71 There has been a decades-long rightwing campaign against the UN. Now Soros is leading it. On various Soros web sites one may read criticism of the United Nations as too rich, unwilling to share information, or flawed in ways that make it unfit for the way the world should run according to George Soros.

Even writers at The Nation, writers who clearly ought to know better, have been influenced by Soros' ideas. William Greider, for instance, recently found some validity in Soros' criticism that the United Nations should not be a venue for "tin-pot dictators and totalitarians. . treated as equal partners." 72 This kind of Eurocentric racism is at the heart of Soros' hubris. His assumption that the United States can and should run the world is a prescription for fascism on a global scale. For much too long, Western "progressives" have been giving Soros a pass. Probably Greider and others will find the reference to fascism excessive, unjustified, even outrageous.

But just listen closely to what Soros himself has to say: "In old Rome, the Romans only voted. In the modern global capitalism, the Americans only vote. The Brazilians do not vote." 73
(snip)

I don't know if anybody noticed it but was from a link in here

Kissinger & BCCI spells BUSH & 9-11
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=377323

[Classical_Liberal]

187. I am a liberal not a communists

Chaves maybe is the real people because he is democratic and believes in helping the poor. Castro doesn't fit that category. Sorry.

[nolabels]

198. Me either

I would consider myself leaning towards a free and sustainable market person. The problem I see is that is it being as much illusion as any Marxist state because of all the effing fascists and some authoritarian liberals want to plunk a government or state apparatus in the middle of parties to suck the life out of both.

There is obscene fraud, corruption, violence and murder going on and much of it emanating out of places some would consider the authorities. Large institutions inherently breed it.

Castro and Chaves are an effect and not something new. They have a large percentage of the people behind them only as a result of a failed authoritarian capitalist system. They filled the vacuum
My guess would be that Cuba would turn into a model Democracy overnight if the US political system, * and the Gangsters that reside in Miami went away. Just like Arafat, Castro would be a nothing without his opposition that operates on that amoral or immoral side of the fence.

The biggest problems the US has in getting rid of any of them such thorny issues resides in itself practicing real Egalitarism and not the kind it used to try and thump the rest of the world with. The rest of the world is getting hip to the tricks them marketing boys try use to deceive them with. The biggest question is when will the rest of the US people figure it out?

You might notice though, those places that have been thumbed down by the capitalist that have had to reinvent the wheel. It also seems to me that they have mostly been able to do it

SUSTAINABLE INDUSTRIALIZATION
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Page 1. SUSTAINABLE INDUSTRIALIZATION A NEW STRATEGIC TREND IN ASIAN DEVELOPING
ECONOMIES By DO DUC DINH Institute of World Economy Hanoi - Vietnam Page 2. ...
www.capi.uvic.ca/pubs/oc_papers/doducdihn.pdf - Similar pages

(snip)
SUMMARY
This paper starts from the analysis of the comparative advantages of Asian developing economies such as labor, natural resources, capital, technologies and markets, with an aim to reassess the industrialization strategies having been implemented since the 1950s to the e present time, including the import-substitution, export-orientation and heavy-industries-based strategies. Of these, the third obviously failed to succeed, while the other two resulted in miracle economic growth with too much inward-looking or vulnerable exposure to foreign capital, technologies and markets, hence less consideration for internal factors. This has led to great economic, social and environmental imbalances. One of the most serious and undeniable consequences of these biases is the current financial crisis.
As a result, Asian developing economies have now turned to a new development
trend or, may it be said, a new development strategy, that is, sustainable industrialization which is characterized by more balanced and flexible economic and social development with greater international and regional integration and better ecological environment.
(snip)

[mouse7]

80. It's impossible to get that much money and not be a litttle creepy

You simply can't generate that much money without stepping on a lot of toes and entering a lot of grey areas.

Personally, I'd rather people didn't get personal fortunes that ludicrously big. However, they have. The best we can do as progressives is hope some of that wealth goes to good causes.

[stevedeshazer]

116. Come on, you guys, get real

Do you guys have any idea who George Soros is and what he stands for?

He is part of the Carlyle Group.

<snip>
AN IMPORTANT TENET of journalism is that you should always ask, “Who benefits?”

In the case of a war, the answers to this question become of paramount importance. Suppose, for example, that profits from
military contracting were to go in the pockets of a former U.S. President whose son (and a presumed future heir) is now
President? Suppose further that such profits escalate in times of conflict. Wouldn’t this be of concern to the public? Wouldn’t
you expect the media to be all over such an important ethical (not to mention moral, and maybe legal) angle?

Though described by the Industry Standard as “the world’s largest private equity firm,” with over $12 billion under
management, chances are readers haven’t ever heard of The Carlyle Group. Isn’t that a little odd, considering it is run by
a veritable who's who of former Republican political leaders. Former Defense Secretary Frank Carlucci is Carlyle’s chairman and
managing director (who, by the way, was college roommate of the current Defense Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld). And that
partners in this mammoth venture include former U.S. Secretary of State James A. Baker III, George Soros, Fred
Malek (George H.W. Bush’s campaign manager, forced to resign when it was revealed he was Nixon’s “Jew
counter”), and—presumably—George H.W. Bush?

We say “presumably” because the privately-held Carlyle doesn’t have to reveal information about its partners or
investments to the SEC or to anyone else.

source: (from 2001) http://baltimorechronicle.com/media3_oct01.shtml

____________________________________________________________________

This can't be good. Why do you trust this guy? Why are you all rejoicing because George Soros is willing to work against his
business partner in a struggle for control of Carlyle largesse? This helps how?

[Zhade]

136. Exactly.

He's trying to wrest control away from Bush because the Stupid Texas Traitor is messing up the global business plan.

It's not about philanthropy. It's about saving the business plan.

[Tinoire]

145. Boy am I happy to see you & Zhade and all the others - RESEARCH SOROS!

to this sad celebration.

DUers please research this THIEF.

What good does it do us to throw one mafia don out only to replace it with another. CARLYLE WINS EITHER WAY!

You want to fight Carlyle? You want Democracy to win?

Quit celebrating and research this guy. Search the DU archives to see what was said about this thug before he came bearing gifts.
=====================================
(Excerpt)

Aside from Middle East autocrats and tycoons (such as the bin Laden family), Carlyle counts as among its partners George Soros, the multi-billionaire financier of right-wing NGOs in Eastern Europe and accused by Malaysian authorities as having engineered the Asian financial crisis in 1997; and Fred Malek, Bush Sr.’s campaign manager.

After only 15 years, Carlyle is now worth $13.5 billion. The private empire, which operates in the shadows of the iron triangle of government, industry and military spans three continents and includes investments in most corners of the world. It has ownership stakes in 164 companies which last year employed more than 70,000 people and generated $16 billion in revenues. About 450 institutions – mainly large pension funds and banks – are Carlyle investors. Since 1987, Carlyle has invested $5.4 billion in 233 transactions, with a rate of return of 36% on its investments.

www.bulatlat.com/news/2-13/2-13-carlyle.html

----
Eleventh hour lies mount as war approaches
by Larry Chin
www.globalresearch.ca 17 March 2003
The URL of this article is: http://globalresearch.ca/articles/303A.html



"Go ahead and kill us"

In yet another typical example of Bush-era news, Newsweek magazine published a small article in its December 23, 2002 issue titled, "Go Invade My Space", intended to leave lazy and misinformed readers with the impression that Iraqis welcome their own slaughter.

Citing only a survey conducted conducted by the International Crisis Group, the Brussels-based think tank www.intl-crisis-group.org/about/board.cfm , Colin Soloway concluded that "almost everybody is against the war ---except the Iraqis" and "most Iraqis interviewed support the idea of an invasion, as well as a US occupation."

<snip>

To erase any doubts about the agenda of the ICG (described on its own web site as a "private advocacy organization" that "responds to crises by providing on-the-spot analysis of root causes and proposing practical solutions"), here are key members of its board of directors:

Zbigniew Brezezinski
Saud Nasir Al-Sabah. Kuwaiti Royal Family. Former ambassador to the US during the first Gulf War, former head of the Kuwaiti Ministry of Oil. As documented by UPI correspondent Morgan Strong (http://www.rense.com/general30/sdeee.htm ), the most deceptive US propaganda produced during the first Gulf War was created by the Al-Sabah regime and public relations firm (Hill & Knowlton) tied to George H.W. Bush’s administration. The woman who appeared in fake news footage (claiming the killing of Iraqi babies) starred none other than Nayirah, the daughter of Saud Nasir Al-Sabah.
El-Hassan bin Talal. Crown Prince of Jordan. Hassan has been floated as potential ruler of a portion of post-Saddam Iraq, and has met with Paul Wolfowitz. The ruling Jordanian monarchy’s close ties to Washington stretches back to the 1950s, when the CIA assisted the late Jordanian King Hussein to the throne. Jordan is also the headquarters of the CIA-linked Iraqi National Accord, one of the main Iraqi opposition groups involved over the past decade with toppling Saddam Hussein.

Stephen Solarz. Former US Congressman. Original signatory of the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998. (www.fcnl.org/issues/int/sup/iraq_liberation.htm ). Co-Chair (with Richard Perle) of the Committee for Peace and Security in the Gulf (CPSG), and member, Project for a New American Century---neoconservative anti-Baghdad groups calling for Iraqi regime removal.
Kenneth Adelman. Former assistant to U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld from 1975 to 1977 and UN ambassador under Ronald Reagan, and frequent guest on right-wing Fox news. The hawkish Adelman (http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-adelman121801.shtml ) has been one of the most histrionic voices calling for Saddam’s ouster , further killing of Palestinians (he views Palestinian children as ‘homicide bombers’), and the elimination of all Islamic anti-US opposition in the Middle East (including Saudi Arabia and Egypt).

General Wesley Clark. Former NATO supreme commander.
Morton Abramowitz. Former US Assistant Secretary of State for Intelligence and Research.

George Mitchell. Former US senator. Recently resigned as a co-chair for a blue ribbon panel investigating September 11 because of "conflicts of interest".

S. Daniel Abraham. One of the 400 wealthiest people in America, privately involved with Middle East and Israel-Palestine politics for years.

Henry Luce III

Laurance Rockefeller

George Soros. Billionaire super investor, philanthropist. According to a penetrating analysis by Heather Cottin (CovertAction Quarterly, Fall 2002), Soros, a leading member of the Council on Foreign Relations as well as the Carlyle Group, plays a major role in "tightening the ideological stranglehold of globalization and the New World Order while promoting his own financial gain". Soros’ Open Society, which routinely funds "alternative Left groups" (http://questionsquestions.net/feldman/soros.html ) has been linked to the CIA.

Richard Allen, former US National Security Adviser. Allen recruited Oliver North to Ronald Reagan’s National Security Council, and was a participant in the arms-for-hostages Iran-Contra operation. The ultra-hawk Allen resigned from Richard Nixon’s cabinet out of disgust for Henry Kissinger’s "liberal" policies.

Fidel Ramos. Former Philippine president. Senior advisor of the Carlyle Group and the head of Carlyle’s Asian advisory board.
A large number of ICG directors are also members of the Balkan Action Counsel, American Peace in Chechnya, and other groups involved with post-USSR Central Asia. Clearly, what currently passes for news in the American corporate media is the voice of the US war lobby that has been lobbying for a "regime change" in Iraq for over a decade. (http://onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/Chin110702/chin110702.html ).

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHI303A.html

--

Welcome to IESC


The International Executive Service Corps is the largest not-for-profit business development organization of its kind in the world.

IESC has been working since 1964 to increase the competitiveness of entrepreneurs and small and medium-sized firms in the developing world and in emerging democracies.
Our expertise also extends to strengthening non-governmental and business support organizations. Our public administration program engenders strong democratic practices, values and institutions among the new, emerging democracies.

IESC BOARD OF DIRECTORS

John R. Torell III
Chairman of IESC
Managing Partner
Core Capital Group

Hon. Lucy Wilson Benson
Former Under Secretary of State

Ronald L. Bornhuetter
Former Chairman and CEO
NAC RE Corporation

Hon. Nicholas F. Brady
Chairman
Darby Advisors, Inc.
Former Secretary of the Treasury

Frank Carlucci
Chairman Emeritus
The Carlyle Group
Former Secretary of Defense

Howard L. Clark, Jr.
Vice Chairman
Lehman Brothers, Inc.

Ruth M. Davis
President & CEO
The Pymatuning Group. Inc.

Fulvio V. Dobrich
Executive Director
DEPFA Bank

Kathleen Lacey Hoge
Partner
Core Capital Group

James M. Kilts
Chairman & CEO
The Gillette Company

Spencer T. King
President & CEO
IESC

Donald K. McIvor
Senior Vice President (ret.)
Exxon Corporation

David E. McKinney
President
The Metropolitan Museum of Art

Carl H. Pforzheimer III
Managing Partner
Carl H. Pforzheimer & Co.

William P. Powell
Managing Director
William Street Advisors

Richard Sabot
Chairman
eZiba
Professor of Economics, Emeritus
Williams College

George Vojta
Director
Financial Services Forum

Hon. John C. Whitehead
Former Deputy Secretary of State


Secretary & General Counsel
Richard McGrath, Esq.
Senior Partner
Cummings & Lockwood

IESC ADVISORY COUNCIL

U.S. Senator Joseph I. Lieberman
Connecticut

Robert C. Liuzzi
President & CEO
CF Industries

U.S. Senator Richard G. Lugar
Indiana

Robert C. Macauley
Founder & Chairman
AmeriCares Foundation

Congressman Christopher Shays (R)
Connecticut

George Soros
Chairman
The Soros Foundation


http://www.iesc.org/board.html

[dArKeR]

12. The last MORAL person left on Earth! Brings tears to my eyes!

The last MORAL person with money left on Earth!

[specimenfred1984]

14. Similarities Between GOP and Nazis

Republican Platform - Nazi Platform

Anti-equal rights - SAME
Anti-intellectuals - SAME
Anti-environment - SAME
Pro war - SAME
World domination - SAME
Pro capital punishment - SAME
Anti-free speech - SAME
Elite rule government - SAME
Pro "common man" rhetoric - SAME
Anti-immigration - SAME
Belief in superiority - SAME
Large propaganda office - SAME
Leadership through hatred - SAME
Citizen spy network - SAME
Not elected by majority - SAME
Secret tribunals - SAME
Political Assassinations - SAME
Invading Countries - SAME
Use Terror as Political Tool - SAME
Prison camps - SAME

GO SOROS!!!!!!!!!

[IndependantThinker]

128. Similarities? Not just because you think so...

Be careful of comparing anyone to the Nazi regime. You obviously have some hatred of the GOP, which is fine, except when you start telling lies about them. Bash the GOP with truth, please.

"Anti-equal rights" - exactly how is the GOP anti-equal rights? Does equal-rights mean special rights for some and not others? Or does equal-rights mean everyone treated the same according to the law?

"Pro war" - I do believe that MANY Dems are also Pro War, yet I don't see a post from you comparing the Dems to Nazi Germany. Also, the Nazi's had a plan to dominate the world through military conquest. Where in the GOP platform do they discuss military conquest of the world?

"Anti-immigration" - I believe you mean to say "Anti-illegal-immigration", which should be praised and not denounced. Everyone who comes to this country illegally and is coddled by the politicians is a slap in the face to EVERYONE who has every sacrificed to come here LEGALLY - which is the vast majority of anyone not born here. Think about what you're complaining about!

"Not elected by majority" - This same old tired crap from the extreme left? I'm assuming you're referring to a majority of the people. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bill Clinton wasn't elected by a majority of the voting public was he? Even Al Gore admitted that GW won the election FAIR AND SQUARE. GW, like it or not, was elected in accordance with EVERY election law in the land. Quit spouting this crap. Why hasn't MOVEON.org rallied against people like you to MOVEON from this tired squabble?


Your list was very lame, and much of what you are trying to say could easily be argued as doctrines of the left. Come up with something better next time, please.

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IndependantThinker]

132. Why can't you at least answer my questions?

I just want some honest debate here. Statements should be backed up with facts. That's all I want.

[Zhade]

138. Don't expect to get far with the "get over it" mentality.

A lot of DUers - like myself, for example - don't appreciate the "Dubya won fair and square" line. Mainly because it's completely untrue:

1) 90,000+ historically-Democratic-voting people, mostly black, illegally expunged from the Florida voting rolls before the election by a private firm at the insistence of Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris (co-chair of The Traitor's election campaign in Florida), 90% of whom were legally entitled to vote and still haven't gotten that right reinstated;

2) the "Brooks Brothers" near-riot that shut down the legally-proceeding vote recount in Miami-Dade county;

3) the -16,000 votes in Volusia county that caused Bush's first cousin, on FOX News, to call Florida for Bush, thus setting up the blatantly false impression that it was Gore trying to steal the election (a clear untruth);

4) a partisan, one-time-only "special circumstances" Supreme Court ruling in favor of The Traitor, issued by so-called justices who were appointed by his own father;

And more, should you care to learn about it.

Honestly, I hope you're simply uninformed on this, because that's easier to fix. If you know all the facts and still believe the commander-in-thief belongs in the White House, well, I don't know what to say...

[Name removed]

141. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zhade]

142. It's hard not to hate a traitor to the Constitution.

I'm certainly not going to apologize for calling a spade a spade. Bush is a traitor to this country, has broken federal and international laws, and should be prosecuted for war crimes.

If you want to know all about the 90,000+ voters, go to http://www.gregpalast.com - he's the one who broke the story, which aired on the BBC. Not here in America, of course.

Quite simply put, you will find out pretty rapidly that people here will see you as a "Freeper". I am not calling you that, but your rather suspect views of the credibility of established facts doesn't help.

Again, check out Palast. You'll be quite surprised - unpleasantly, I imagine.

[Name removed]

150. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zhade]

160. No apologies for newness needed.

You'll need to dig a little at GP's site to find the 90k voters story, so here's a direct link to the story: http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=74&row=1. If you'd like to watch the BBC newscast, including the encounter between Palast and Clayton Roberts (Florida's Director of Elections in 2000) in which Roberts runs off camera when Palast tries to show him the contract for the voter-scrub, you can see it here.

Although you may not realize why at this point, you make a reverse point through your remarks on CNN, Rather, and Kronkite, which is that mainstream news media is not to be wholeheartedly believed. CNN is not brimming with journalistic integrity. The aforementioned Greg Palast has remarked that "Dan Rather said, on the program I work on at BBC TV, that he can't ask tough questions on US television." Here's an example of the crack journalism done by CBS:

5. Why do you think Americans and American news agencies paid little or no attention to the Harris-Bush removal of voters in Florida?

Hey, YOU tell ME. I'll give you just one story from the book. Dan Rather's CBS Evening News called me and asked for a piece of the story on purging voters. I had info that Jeb Bush's own office had, in violation of two court orders, sent out a letter telling elections supervisors to remove thousands of LEGAL voters from the roles – people with criminal records but had their voting rights restored in other states. CBS didn't run the story. Why? The producer told me, "Your story didn't stand up." How did she know that? SHE CALLED JEB BUSH'S OFFICE AND THEY SAID THEY DIDN'T DO IT. D'oh!
(Later, the Washington Post ran this story – but only after the US Civil Rights Commission endorsed my findings - in other words, once I had official endorsement.) US journalism is pompous, lazy, cowardly.

Here's a tip on the whole media thing - visit the websites below for a crash course on the state of our consolidated, corporate media. You will then understand exactly why you will never hear a negative story on, say, General Electric (a defense contrator, by the way) on NBC, because GE owns NBC. If news broadcasters own stock in a defense contractor, doesn't it seem a temptation for those broadcasters to play up the reasons for going to war? After all, this would directly benefit them economically. By the way, running a Google search on Project Mockingbird might not be a bad idea, either.

http://www.takebackthemedia
http://www.tvnewslies.com
http://www.mediawhoresonline.com
http://www.mediachannel.org

As for name-calling, I try not to engage in that. I do, however, point out the facts, one of which is that George Walker Bush is a traitor. Now, you pull out the Clinton card - which, by the way, you should expect to get savaged for here, so be prepared! - and attempt to paint Bush and Clinton as one and the same. They are not.

However, and this may shock you, I do not like Clinton either, for many reasons (the consensual, if sleazy and hurtful, blowjob involving two grown adults NOT being one of them). Kosovo, Waco, the 1996 Executive Order that set the stage for the Patriot Act, Clinton's DLC ties, his choice of coworkers (like Madeline "half a million dead Iraqis is a price worth paying" Albright, who also failed to stop 800,000 Tutis from being slaughtered in Rwanda) - the list goes on.

I do believe, incidentally, that I specified that I was NOT calling you a Freeper. That term, by the way, applies to blind followers of the traitors in the White House and the Right-Wing movement in the United States (like Rush "Illegally-Obtained Oxycontin" Limbaugh) who believe every word out of a proven liar's mouth. I went out of my way to state that I was NOT calling you a Freeper.

You should be aware, though, that many of your arguments sound Freeper-like, which is to say uninformed. That's not a sin. Hell, I supported Bush for ten months after 9/11, until I realized the truth about him, his handlers, PNAC, the whole nine yards. Ignorance is no failing. Refusing to learn is, but I am not making that judgement of you, because as you rightly state, I do not know you personally.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

16. Amazing! Thank you, Mr. Soros!

OTOH, Did you see that NewsMax bought a headline ad on msnbc with a link to a Rush poll?

Yikes! Someone making a statement or what?

[Hoppin_Mad]

18. YEAH !

The best news I've read all day.

[Myra]

19. Then donate some money to the Clark campaign Mr Soros!

The Repugs find a way around the doner limits;
I'm sure you can too.

Fight fire with fire.

[lostnfound]

25. I'm sure he will; they already have links on namebase.org

but he will be limited to $2000, anyway, of direct money.

Linked article says he's giving $18.5 million among 3 groups.

Can you imagine moveon.org's founder is just 22 years old and started a group that's now getting $5 million from one guy? One person (not just one billionaire) CAN make a difference.

I'm most impressed that Soros previously contributed big bucks to campaign finance reform. That's putting money behind the "making money less powerful" cause, and shows me he believes in democracy more than personal influence.

Thanks, George. For doing what you can.

[Myra]

93. "but he will be limited to $2000, anyway, of direct money"

Exactly. But the Rethugs sure find a million ways
around that niggling little rule.

I didn't realize he is fighting for campaign
finance reform. That is the number one issue
we're facing...'cept that if we don't successfully
fight voting fraud, aka Diebold/computerized
cheating, we'll never have the chance to tackle
campaign finance reform.

Moveon.org's founder is just 22 years old??
Really?
Wow.

[Democat]

20. A real American patriot!

This is another counterpoint for those few DUers who seem to think all rich people are evil.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

22. Notice the RUSH Banner at the top? That's NewsMax!

RW Slugs buying space on MSNBC? On this particular page? Whazzup wit that?

[Supormom]

121. Why not vote in the Rush poll?

"We will be sending the results of this poll to congress"
Say what? :wtf:

[emad]

27. Soros was involved in the 1970s with Mahdi Al-Tajir

who became UAE ambassador to the UK, and was reputedly at that time the 'second wealthiest man in the UAE' after persuading the Al-Maktoum ruling family of the Emirates to be their front man for "foreign investment applications". Al-Tajir was the lynchpin between BCCI's Aga Hassan Abedi and Kissinger and was the first to offer them 'banking facilities' in the UAE.

He also bankrolled an Iraqi called Sabih Mahmoud Shukri in the early 1980s into financing a scam outfit in London that called itself Allied Arab Bank. This was initially a partnership between failed UK bankers Johnson Matthey and Barclays Bank. A series of international frauds led to its closure and revealed a network of corrupt partners from Nigeria and Pakistan who were laundering money via Channel Islands offshore accounts, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg and various tax havens in the Carribean.

Previously Shukri had been the London manager of the Jordanian - based Arab Bank, whose principal shareholders and directors were the Shoman brothers. Much has been documented about their interests in facilitating the flow of Palestinian funds into the accounts of radical terrorist organisations in the late 1960s through to the 1980s.

[0007]

40. Very interesting!

Do you think Soros is making restitution now for his past behavior?

Or is there an enormous reward waiting Soros behind this motive for his madness?

Can spots on the tiger change?

[emad]

165. Restitution? More like covering his ass

Soros probably knows the offshore bank account numbers which tory and labour politicians and public figures were paid from via enron slush funds to gag them about thatcher's concealment of reagan/bush 1 scams including banco ambrosiano and bcci. His enormous reward is the rake off ken lay paid him upfront to hide junior's perfidity in the mid 80s when his blackmail number re charles and diana was about to be exposed by uk special branch.

Think this particular tiger is so acne-scarred and pitted with syphilitic blemishes no amount os scrubbing or cover-up is ever gonna eradicate or alter them zits

[nolabels]

66. Al-Maktoum seems like to be very public , can't find too many links

I also found something on the late Khalid Abdul Hameed Shoman but not too much info putting many of them together, could you help us a little more? You seem to be from that area and know things others don't

[emad]

166. Some of this is covered by the UK lawsuit:

Allied Arab Bank v Hajjar which I think is catalogued under some UK law library. The UK barrister who has dealt with all this is Richard Sheldon QC:http://www.southsquare.com/richard_sheldon.html

The fraud bank cases he's listed as having dealt with are:



Major Cases:

Recent major cases include acting for COLT in its successful defence against proceedings brought by bondholders, the liquidators of BCCI (since 1991), the administrators and liquidators of Barings, the Australian liquidator of the Bond Group of companies, the former central bank of Cuba, the purchasers of Global Crossing in connection with its restructuring.

Reported Cases:

Wight & Othrs v Eckhardt Marine (PC) The Times 6 June 03

Highberry Ltd v COLT Telecom Group plc <2003> 1 BCLC 290



Re Banco Nacional de Cuba <2001> 1 WLR 2039

Three Rivers DC v Bank of England (HL) <2001> 2 All ER 513

Re BCCI, Banque Arabe Internationale d’Investissement SA v Morris <2001> 1 BCLC 263

Bank of Credit and Commerce International (Overseas) Ltd v Akindele (CA) <2001> Ch 437



Three Rivers DC v Bank of England (HL) <2000> 2 WLR 1220

Banco Nacional de Cuba v Cosmos Trading Corp (CA) <2000> 1 BCLC 813

Morris v Bank of America National Trust (CA) <2000> 1 All ER 954

Three Rivers DC v Bank of England (CA) <2000> 2 WLR 15

Re J N Taylor Finance (Pty) Ltd <1999> BCC 197

Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA v Ali (No 2) <1999> 4 All ER 83

Bank of Credit and Commerce International (Overseas) Ltd v Akindele <1999> BCC 669

Re Parkfield Group plc <1998> 1 BCLC 451

Re Astra Holdings plc <1998> 2 BCLC 44

Credit Suisse v Waltham Forest LBC <1997> QB 362 (CA)

Re Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA (No 12)

Morris v Bank of America <1997> 1 BCLC 526

Gyoury v Northern Rock Building Society <1997> EGCS 56

Re Real Meat Company <1996> BCC 254

Beverley Group plc v. McClue <1995> 2 BCLC 407

Re Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA <1994> 1 WLR 708 (CA)

Re Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA (No.7), Morris v. Al Mirabi <1994> BCLC 455

Re Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA (No.6), Mahfouz v. Morris <1994>

BCLC 450

Re Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA (No.5) <1994> BCLC 429

Re SH & Co (Realisations) 1990 Ltd <1993> BCLC 1309

Re Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA (No.3) <1993> BCLC 106 and 1490 (CA)

Re Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA <1993> BCC 787

Price Waterhouse v. BCCI Holdings (Luxembourg) SA <1992> BCLC 583

Re Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA (No.2) <1992> BCLC 579

Re Bank of Credit and Commerce International SA <1992> BCLC 570

Paragon Group Ltd v. Burnell <1991> Ch 498 (CA)

Arab Monetary Fund v. Hashim (No.3) <1991> 2 AC 114 (CA)

Re London Iron and Steel Co Ltd <1990> BCLC 372

Re Synthetic Technology Ltd <1990> BCLC 378

Astor Chemicals Ltd v. Synthetic Technologies Ltd <1990> BCLC 1

Re Adlards Motor Group Holding Ltd <1990> BCLC 68

Re Acli Metals (London) Ltd <1989> BCLC 749

Re Embassy Art Products Ltd <1988> BCLC 1

Allied Arab Bank v. Hajjar (No.2) <1988> QB 944

Allied Arab Bank v. Hajjar <1988> QB 787

Re Brightlife Ltd <1987> Ch 200

Re International Tin Council <1987> Ch 419

Sauter Automation Ltd v. Goodman (Mechanical Services) Ltd (1986) 34 BLR 81

Re Rhine Film Corporation (UK) Ltd <1986> BCC 98, 949

Re Lowerstoft Traffic Services Ltd <1986> BCLC 81

Re Quest CAE Ltd <1985> BCLC 226

Re Potters Oils Ltd <1985> BCLC 203

Re Amalgamated Investment and Property Co Ltd <1985> Ch 349

Re Pittortou (A Bankrupt) <1985> 1 WLR 58

Insurance Officer v. Hemmant <1984> 1 WLR 857 (CA)

Doble v. Firestone Tyre and Rubber Co Ltd <1981> IRLR 28 (EAT)

Publications:

Halsbury’s Laws, Vol 7(3), Fourth Edition 1996 Reissue – Companies

Halsbury’s Laws, Vol 3(2), Fourth Edition Reissue – Bankruptcy and Insolvency

[emad]

168. OK check this: link to Mark Rich (Clinton's 2000 pardon)/Al Tajir

From:

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld200203/ldjudgmt/jd021205/green-1.htm

Extract:

1. These proceedings arise out of an elaborate fraud by which the plaintiff, Dubai Aluminium Co Ltd, was induced to pay out US$50 million between September 1987 and March 1993 under a bogus consultancy agreement with Marc Rich & Co AG. The proceeds were shared out among the principal participants in the fraud under several equally bogus sub-agreements. Mr Hany Mohamed Salaam and His Excellency Mahdi Mohamed Al Tajir were found by the trial judge, Rix J, to have been dishonest participants in the scheme, together with Dubai Aluminium's chief executive, Mr Ian Livingstone. They benefited either directly or through companies controlled by them: to the extent of about $20.3 million in the case of Mr Salaam, $16.5 million in the case of Mr Al Tajir and $6.3 million in the case of Mr Livingstone.

Edit: also: http://www.namebase.org/xsup/Mahdi-Al_2D-Tajir.html

[Tinoire]

119. Interesting. I was not aware of this.

This is just getting worse.

[Zhade]

28. Guys - Soros is NOT a hero. Be very, very wary.

George Soros owned a third of Harken after Harken purchased Soros Oil, which happened after Arbusto was bailed out by Spectrum 7, which Harken later acquired. Harken, of course, had "extensive ties" with BCCI. Worth noting is that, according to Greg Palast, one of Harken's board members, Sheikh Abdullah Bakhsh, accompanied Iran-Contra weapons dealer and middleman Adnan Khashoggi to "...a meeting with Saudi billionaires and Al-Qaeda's financial arm. In essence, Palast claims the Saudis paid protection money to the terrorists."

Soros invested $100 million with the Carlyle Group.

Last December he was tried - and convicted - in a French court for insider trading.

He's financed a lot of members of what research is revealing may be a corporate-controlled "Parallel Left" media.

He sits on the board of the Council on Foreign Relations, which also includes Vin Weber (chairman for the National Endowment for Democracy, which according to the New York Times "...funnelled more than $877,000 into Venezuela opposition groups in the weeks and months before the recently aborted coup attempt..." last year), John Deutch (on the board of Citigroup, Raytheon), Robert E. Rubin (director and chairman of the executive committee of Citigroup, on the board at Ford Motors), and Andrew Young (director for Archer Daniels Midland and the CAPPS-loving Delta), among others.

For a detailed look at Soros, read George Soros: Prophet of an "Open Society". He's not the white knight some of the higher-ups would want us to believe.

[hang a left]

34. And by the way...............

Guess where Mr. Soros was on 9/11? That is right! The same underground mililtary/govermental facility that Whistle-Ass was.


And on edit, he was there before Whistle Ass was. I wonder what time he actually got there. What do you want to bet it was before the first plane struck the first tower.

[loudnclear]

36. Sounds like he has the background to fight the Bushco-neo-cons.

You didn't really expect him to be a "clean" billionire did you? You can't be a billionaire and only invest in the environment or squeaky clean enterprises (of which there are none). Grow up! We need to fight these bastarads on a more level playing field and Soros just may be the help we need. Don't tell me you are falling for the RWing brain-wash that morals and integrity count?

[hang a left]

43. No actually LNC, I don't trust ANYONE.

They are all thugs!!! They are just on different teams. Any $$$$$$ they want to give to support ABB is fine with me. But don't expect me to sing praises to them for advancing their own agendas.

[Minstrel Boy]

59. Very true. We need to stop looking for white knights among the elite and

become our own heroes.

It reminds me of the CIA/White House drama. Too many on the left are imagining the Agency is on "our" side. The CIA has its own conflicting agendas, and they have nothing to do with us.

[belle]

98. I think there's a happy medium somewhere there.

That is, to a large extent, we *are* being our own heroes. The grassroots movement has been amazing. But there's so much money and power we're up against; I really don't think it's enough. I for one am thrilled that the big bucks are coming our way.
That doesn't mean I want to go all gooey over Soros or any other one person (including Dean, who I still support); there is a danger to thinking "Yay, Daddy's home," I think. People are complicated, and no, this isn't all going to end up happily ever after even if we do get these fucks out of power. It'll be just the beginning. (or another beginning). But, I can't say it enough, we do need them out. In order to do that we do need grassroots; but we also need, eventually, a leader. (i.e. one of the candidates). And, frankly, we'll need money.

I actually have a little more goodwill for Soros than for the CIA, if only because I do believe that he's as freaked out by the specter of outright fascism as the rest of us: he has good, personal reasons for it, much older and more powerful than the drive for money that's been most of his adult life. But ultimately: he's got the green. He's willing to give it with (it *looks* like) no strings. I say take it--and him--for what it is: one more weapon in the arsenal. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Tinoire]

120. I am so with you in that sentiment. EXACTLY how I feel! n/t

[rman]

47. morals and integrity

RW rambles on about it, but they got nothing to show for it. After all it's lack of morals and integrity that enables corruption.
If anything, morals and integrity is a LW thing.

[BenFranklinUSA]

45. Read the link above....

This guys sounds more dangerous than W.

Another of his quotes,
"I contend that an open society may also be threatened... from excessive individualism."
Yikes :O

(from http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/97feb/capital/capital.htm)

[KittyWampus]

50. Excessive Individualism is ANARCHY

Excessive Individualism is in fact the REJECTION of the Common Good.

Excessive Individualism means EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF

Get the picture?

[stevedeshazer]

100. Absolutely

Sounds to me like the reason Soros wants to donate to MoveOn is that he wants to get rid of BushCo and replace it with SorosCo.

Remember all the threads on how MoveOn.org is Marxist a couple of weeks ago? Now all these posters are happy. Can't have it both ways.

Follow the money.

[Logansquare]

55. I happen to agree with his statement

The cult of the individual is destroying this country. Civic participation has dwindled away. Americans are "bowling alone" to paraphrase the title of a great book on the trend.

[Timefortruth]

78. Excessive individualism IS killing the USA.

People only focus on what is good for them as an individual and not what is good for society or future generations. Tax cuts for example, the environment is another. Until the public views themselves as part of a whole things will get worse. With apologies to Ayn, selfishness is not always a virtue.

[sam sarrha]

189. i agree...i am willing to be someon else.

[Teaser]

46. I don't care.

The Enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Soros is a weapon, and I ain't afraid to use him.

[rman]

48. The enemy of your enemy may be your enemy tomorrow

Soros may have his own agenda.

[Zhade]

75. This is the exact kind of thinking that created bin Laden and Hussein.

NT!

[belle]

95. So what's the solution? Stop supporting MoveOn?

I don't think so.

[Zhade]

134. Ah, that's silly. I didn't suggest that.

Just be aware of where the money is coming from, and who is doing the giving.

Soros' assistance may be helpful now - the point here is to not let it come back and bite us in the ass later. See, it's time WE worked the system against THEM, however we can, while still keeping our principles in place.

I love MoveOn. Never said "stop supporting it", and wouldn't suggest that at this point. Just keep your eyes peeled. That's the crux of my point.

[CivilRightsNow]

91. They are pushing the buttons from both sides

Who does this guy support to take over Bush's presidency? Lemme guess, Wesley Clark.

Vin Webber is perhaps one of the most corrupt low down dirty people you can possibly do business with, him and Kissinger. The NED is one completely fucked up propaganda spin marketing machine disguised as a think tank.

This guy has the same a agenda as everyone pulling the current shots, he is just making sure that his interests are secure no matter how it goes.

[DrBlix]

159. Soros is exercising "Controlled Opposition"

This is nothing new to Soros or any of them for that matter. They exercise "Controlled Opposition". Soros's phony philanthropy "open Society" and all his phony foundations is nothing more than playing both sides against the middle. He's been doing it for years, in countries worldwide and in the end he picks up his chips and moves on to another country....it's our turn as far as Soros is concerned. Rockefeller's method......Philanthropy = Profit = Power. Don't kid yourselves this man isn't doing anyone any favors. He paves the way for the World Bank/IMF when that all fails they bomb the shit out of them....He is only interested in lining his pockets and globalization.

[Tinoire]

126. Soros in a Major Fight with Putin now about that Oil Scandal?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=102&topic_id=214046&mesg_id=214046


No no, this is looking not good at all!

"Soros's foundation left 'paralysed' after raid"
Posted by Stevie D
Moscow- Fifteen years since it started work in post-Soviet Russia, US billionaire George Soros's foundation has been "paralysed" after 50 camouflage-clad men seized its Moscow offices and removed computer records and archives.

Yekaterina Geniyeva, the head of Soros's Open Society Institute in Russia, told journalists yesterday that the raid, ordered by the building's owner ostensibly because of a dispute over rent, appeared to be politically motivated.

The raid, at about midnight on Thursday, came just days after Soros publicly criticized the jailing of Russian oil tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky as "persecution" that would force business to submit to the state.

The organisation had lost all information on its 1,000 grant recipients.

<snip>

source: http://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=565&fArticleId=282302
_____________________________________________________________________
So is this why Soros, a prominent member of the Carlyle Group, now suddenly has it in for the Bushes? And, can a relationship be drawn regarding Poppy Bush and his recent visit to Russia to meet with Putin?

[hang a left]

127. Here is a little more information

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=210004&mesg_id=210004

[Tinoire]

148. Soros and Afghanistan - It just doesn't stop!

This is not a case of narcissistic personality disorder; this is how George Soros exercises the authority of United States hegemony in the world today. Soros foundations and financial machinations are partly responsible for the destruction of socialism in Eastern Europe and the former USSR. He has set his sights on China. He was part of the full court press that dismantled Yugoslavia. Calling himself a philanthropist, billionaire George Soros' role is to tighten the ideological stranglehold of globalization and the New World Order while promoting his own financial gain. Soros' commercial and "philanthropic" operations are clandestine, contradictory and coactive. And as far as his economic activities are concerned, by his own admission, he is without conscience; a capitalist who functions with absolute amorality.

<snip>

George Soros' activities fall into the construct developed in 1983 and enunciated by Allen Weinstein, founder of the National Endowment for Democracy. Weinstein said, "A lot of what we do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA."32 Soros is operating exactly within the confines of the intelligence complex. He is little different from CIA drug runners in Laos in the 1960s, or the mujahedin who profited from the opium trade while carrying out CIA operations against socialist Afghanistan in the 1980s. He simply funnels (and takes home) a whole lot more money than those pawns, and he does much of his business in the light of day. His candor insofar as he expresses it is a sort of spook damage control that serves to legitimize the strategies of U.S. foreign policy.

<snip>
http://www.canadiandimension.mb.ca/extra/d1207hc.htm

[dusty64]

29. Finally

some good news to wake up to. His $$$$$ can do a lot of excellent things here.

[rocktivity]

30. Good! He can start by investing in this liberal news network

we keep hearing rumors about. Gore is supposed to be involved in one, the BBC is supposed to be involved in one. Is is going to materialize in time for it to do any good?


rocknation

[GOPBasher]

31. I love this guy.

What first-class human being. He obviously cares much more about the state of humanity than he does about his money.

[rman]

35. cares enough about money to get invloved with Carlyle and BCCI

-

[Noordam]

32. I smell a Texas Project

:evilgrin:

[ignatius]

37. Wow, this is awesome. A person who has lived in a facist state is able to

recognize what the BFEE is trying to accomplish.

Bless you, Mr. Soros, and for God's sake, watch your back. These people are ruthless.

[Gin]

38. You go George. If there is anything these thugs in office listen to it's

money.

Prune bush!

[Beetwasher]

39. Here Comes The CAVALRY!

Wooo Hoo!

Someone send Soros a white hat!

THANK YOU GEORGE SOROS!!!

[leesa]

42. What a guy! I love this man. Come on all you other rich decent people

You must be out there. The RNC will go after him like mad dogs for doing what they do continuously and usually illegally.

[Timefortruth]

44. Someone let him know that it’s time to beef up security!

PLEASE!!!!!!

This is as dangerous an act that a man can take. Does he know the risk?

I suggested in GD that he put a few billion in a trust to be transferred to progressive causes immediately upon his death if it occurs before November ’04. That will insure his health, and that his planes stay in the air. It would be real life insurance, because they could make it look like natural causes also.

[hang a left]

49. Soros is an "Untouchable"

THAT you can take to the bank!

[nolabels]

52. Now that is true humor, should tell him to stay off even big planes too

Aircraft Downed During the Cold War and Thereafter

Last revised: September 6 2003
http://home.sprynet.com/~anneled/ColdWar.html

http://www.celebratetoday.com/airdis.html
Do Not Enter
If You Are About to Fly
The following page is the complete listing from Airplane Disasters, by John Kremer. This file features more than two thousand airplane crashes, near misses, and related accidents organized by date.
(snip)

[DoYouEverWonder]

54. Hey, is his money green?

Then I say take it and use it well.

Whatever his motives are, he happens to be on our side at the moment. Who woulda thunk it?

[nolabels]

60. Well we one thing we do know is Asscrack will not be able to ......

Issue an arrest warrant on him over any old scandal of BCCI unless they pick up Poppy up too

See mom was correct, carefull how you handle that green stuff, for you don't never know where its been.

[bobthedrummer]

57. All foes of fascism are my comrades.

eom

[nolabels]

185. Soros lived through Hitlers riegn as a young boy

He also says the right things to get people to sit up and take notice, but the proof is pudding. If it would make anybody feel better about anything, there was this

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2003/11/12/184802.shtml
Wednesday, Nov. 12, 2003 6:23 p.m. EST
Clinton Counsel Urges Hillary to Denounce Soros

Former Clinton White House counsel Lanny Davis is calling on his one-time boss Sen. Hillary Clinton to denounce billionaire Democratic Party donor George Soros for accusing President Bush and Israeli Prime Minister Sharon of contributing to a resurgence in global anti-Semitism.

"If that is what he said, then he certainly should be criticized," Davis told radio host Sean Hannity. "And I would certainly expect every Democrat, including Senator Clinton" to denounce Soros' comments, the ex-white House lawyer added.

Asked about additional comments by the billionaire Bush basher, where Soros reportedly compared Bush's policies to Adolf Hitler's, Davis was incredulous. "No one is going to agree with that kind of rhetoric and I don't believe that Mr. Soros would say something like that," he told Hannity.

According to the Washington Post, however, Soros did indeed draw a parallel between Bush and the Nazis, saying in an interview on Monday that "America, under Bush, is a danger to the world. ... When I hear Bush say, 'You're either with us or against us,' it, reminds me of the Germans."

It conjures up memories, he said, of Nazi slogans on the walls, "Der Feind Hort mit" ("The enemy is listening"), the Post added.
(snip)

It's time for another Bush/Nazi thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=199853

[bushisanidiot]

58. Yeah Baby!

AWOL is going down!!!!

[CaptainClark23]

62. GW is a liability

and these guys know it. It only makes sense to play both ends. These guys are businessmen (or thats how they justify themselves). This is just a prudent positioning.

5 mil is great for moveon. 15.5 mil is great for the anti-bush drive. But its ultimately pocket change.

Take the money, use it well, but don't don't be under any false impressions about who's looking out for your interests.

afterthought: get the opposition to have a dependence on regular infusions of big money, then you can start attaching strings to that money. influence platforms, policies, etc.

I would be most cautious.

[w4rma]

64. I nominate George Soros for MEDIA MOGUL! Buy some media outlets!!!! (n/t)

[ElementaryPenguin]

67. Soros sounds like a true DUer with that focus!!

:party:

[TennesseeWalker]

69. Heard O'Reilly blathering on about Soros today.

I think it scares them. Soros is influential and has deep pockets. Tried the old "he's way left; he's pro-narcotics; pro-prostitution; HATES BUSH; blah, blah, blah".

I like it that they're worried. A big alliance is forming to get rid of ShrubCo. Outstanding. Keep up the good work, guys and gals.

[nolabels]

70. My guess is Soros has a beef with * but also is looking to cash in

He seems to be one them folks who can figure out how to cash in on popping bubbles and other people lossing out

http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-global/2003-March/001016.html

http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2003/03/13/200303
13003
3.asp

The Bubble of American Supremacy
by George Soros

2003 The Korea Herald

As American and British troops prepare to invade Iraq, public opinion
in these countries does not support war without U.N. authorization.

The rest of the world is overwhelmingly opposed to war. Yet Saddam
Hussein is regarded as a tyrant who needs to be disarmed, and the
U.N. Security Council unanimously passed Resolution 1441 which
demanded that Saddam destroy his weapons of mass destruction.

What caused this disconnect?

Iraq is the first instance when the Bush doctrine is being applied,
and it is provoking an allergic reaction. The Bush doctrine is built
on two pillars:

(1) The United States will do everything in its power to maintain its
unquestioned military supremacy; and

(2) the United States arrogates the right to preemptive action.

These pillars support two classes of sovereignty: American
sovereignty, which takes precedence over international treaties and
obligations, and the sovereignty of all other states. This is
reminiscent of George Orwell's 'Animal Farm': All animals are equal,
but some animals are more equal than others.

To be sure, the Bush doctrine is not stated starkly; it is buried in
Orwellian doublespeak. The doublespeak is needed because the
doctrine
contradicts American values.

The Bush administration believes that international relations are
relations of power; legality and legitimacy are mere decorations.
This belief is not false, but it exaggerates one aspect of reality to
the exclusion of others. The aspect it stresses is military power.

(snip)

http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros

George Soros (born August 12, 1930) is the son of the Esperanto writer Tivadar Soros. In 1946, George Soros escaped Hungary for the West by participating in an Esperanto youth congress. His is famous as a currency speculator and a philanthropist.

Soros emigrated to England in 1947 and graduated from the London School of Economics in 1952. In 1956, he moved to the United States. He is the chairman of Soros Fund Management and of the Open Society Institute.

Soros became instantly famous on September 22, 1992, when, believing the Pound Sterling was overvalued, he speculated heavily against it. The Bank of England was forced to withdraw the currency out of the European Exchange Rate Mechanism, and Soros earned an estimated US$1 billion in the process. He was dubbed "the man who broke the Bank of England." In 1997, under similar circumstances, Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir bin Mohamad accused Soros of bringing down the Malaysian currency, the ringgit.

Despite his carefully groomed media image, Soros is a controversial figure because on the one hand, as an international investor and currency speculator, he has become extremely wealthy (his fortune in 2000 was estimated at US$ five billion). On the other, he freely acknowledges that the current system of financial speculation undermines healthy economic development in many underdeveloped countries.
(snip)

on edit: a few more click through links in the last link, they are only visible on that page though

[Tinoire]

71. Same analysis here. Soros is only pissed that Bush exposed the game

and needs someone a little more intelligent to be running the operation because Bush exposed it all with his lack of finesse. Soros just wants to replace one thieving cabal with another.

The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend.

If this money comes with strings attached, and I would be very surprised if it doesn't, we are in big trouble.

[nolabels]

72. Thanks friend and have well deserved Veterans Day

http://thewall-usa.com/

[Tinoire]

113. Thanks and to you too!

Sitting here listening to Lennon's "Working Class Hero". It goes well with your Happy VD post ;)

Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and classless and free
But you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see
A working class hero is something to be

There's room at the top they're telling you still
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
If you want to be like the folks on the hill
A working class hero is something to be
If you want to be a hero well just follow me

Peace :hi:

[hang a left]

74. That is what scares me..........I am very afraid!!!

[Zhade]

76. Blatant ass-kissing: I have always found your posts insightful.

You make an extremely important point here.

The ongoing Great Game takes place well above the heads of the masses we are part of. This is not Soros riding to the rescue, but an attempt to save the investment.

You see, Bush is once again crashing a "company" - the US - that he is associated with. This is his history. Time and again, Bush has led companies to ruin and has had to be bailed out. That is what's happening here, only this time it's the United States. I recall Bush stating he would run the government like a corporation. Seems he's doing his hardest to do so - with his typical results. In fact, I'd wager that the only reason the whole damned country isn't in flames right now is because Bush is only nominally in charge as a figurehead.

Just my take, of course. But I don't feel it's too far off, in light of your own observation.

[demgrrrll]

81. Right. I think Poppys vist with Putin was attempted damage control.

Putin arrested Poppy's little Russian carlyle oil buddy after their
visit so Poppy must not have made much of an impact. I think Putin
is a major player and is making full use of our current weakness.
Watch Russia.

[Tinoire]

114. an attempt to save the investment. I love that - that's so exact! n/t

[truthisfreedom]

82. it's pretty hard to throw money at moveon.org and have strings attached.

the purpose is to give the people a voice, and that voice has been strongly yelling the same message for some time. i think we'd notice if soros was picking one particular corrupt candidate to replace bush. anyone care to suggest which potential democratic candidate might bring in another corrupt administration?

[nolabels]

85. Does a bear live in a forest or does a forest live in a bear ?

Clinton might have had a proclivities and other baggage but there were also some billionaires that helped put him there. Its not if the bear lives in the forest, the question is are you safe in your home living next to it or does it live far away and leave you alone.

* is the pocket book of the billionaires now, Clinton and Republican congress squeezed the poor and the middleclass for a lot more than they should have, they didn't tax us much more, but they took (even stole)a lot of things away from us

* has to work with diminished returns, give tax breaks to his buddies and fight wars so they can get their hands on more oil. * is not a good salesman and is a lazy AWOL. Money picked the wrong guy, and now money wants the rest of us to pay for it and the debt * has racked up, should we?

I think Clinton did well from what he had to work with, but * is beyond failure

Btw I think some of the diminished returns could have been avoided if * had been a leader at anything other than taking vacations

[Tinoire]

117. Move-on co-founder and Draft Clark co-founder the same person

The Draft Clark Movement... Grass-roots right? Started by Hlinko, a Democrat and Marguiles, a Republican... Remember all that hemming and hawing? No I don't have a good feeling about this at all... This isn't proof of anything but there are so many dots lining up very unpleasantly.
-----------------------
About the “Draft Wesley Clark” Campaign

The DraftWesleyClark.com campaign is not affiliated with General Clark, but is motivated by high regard for his solid record of leadership and achievement: Former supreme commander of NATO; First in his class at West Point; A Rhodes Scholar; A necessary voice of common sense and moderation on the foreign policy front. The effort is led by a diverse team, including, John Hlinko, president of Extreme Campaigns.

For more information, please see www.DraftWesleyClark.com or contact John Hlinko at John@ExtremeCampaigns

About Extreme Campaigns/John Hlinko

Extreme Campaigns is a newly launched firm specializing in creative, high-impact campaigns designed to attract, engage, and motivate supporters for causes and candidates. The firm is led by John Hlinko, a graduate of Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, veteran of MoveOn.org, and a grassroots campaign expert who has been quoted in books and newspapers, and covered by the media, including national and international television.

http://extremecampaigns.com/draftwesley/news.htm


John Hlinko. John was the co-founder of DraftWesleyClark.com, a draft Clark effort that generated nearly $2 million in pledges, 50,000 letters of support, and thousands of media hits in print, online, and on national and international TV. Throughout his career, Hlinko has been particularly active on the guerrilla marketing front, and been quoted in the books "Power Public Relations" and "Getting Your 15 Minutes of Fame and More." In 1998, he helped lead MoveOn.org, an anti-impeachment petition that generated over half a million signatures and several million dollars in donations.
http://blog.clark04.com/about/

In late July, DraftClark2004.com stated that it had "retained" Michael Frisby, a PR professional who had covered the Clinton administration for The Wall Street Journal and has since taken on such high-profile clients as Chandra Levy's parents. Hlinko's own PR company, Extreme Campaigns, specializes in conducting nontraditional offensives not unlike the draft movement; his group, DraftWesleyClark.com, was located in the offices of former Clinton press secretary Mike McCurry's Internet campaign company, Grassroots Enterprise, Inc.

It gets better:

A number of backdoor channels of communication had been kept open between the draft movement's members and people who were close to the retired general. Josh Margulies, Hlinko's brother-in-law and partner at DraftWesleyClark.com, is friendly with Clark's son, Wesley Clark Jr., a Los Angeles screenwriter. So is Markos Zuniga Moulitsas, who founded the DraftClark.com Web site but now works for Dean. Joshua Lerner, a friend of Wes Jr.'s who spent the July 4th weekend with the Clark family, joined the DraftClark2004.com movement over the summer. During his Sept. 17 campaign announcement, Clark spoke at a lectern brandishing the name of AmericansForClark.com; that URL had been registered to Lerner on June 28, according to the domain registry Better-WhoIs.com.
AmericansforClark.com now redirects to Clark04.com, the official Clark campaign site, and Clark04.com, created Dec. 15, 2002, shifted over to Lerner's server, NS1.LOGPILE.COM, on Sept. 16 -- the day before Clark announced. Clark reportedly spent Sept. 16 meeting with members of DraftWesleyClark.com, Jacoby and other strategists, according to The Boston Globe. Other sites hosted by Lerner include Clarksphere.com, UnitedForClark.com, WesleyClarkWeblog.com, ClarkCoalition.com and AmericansForClark.com, according to the domain registry AllWhoIs.com. So were the two sites that have been shut down, DigitalClark.com and ClarkRecruits.com. Logpile.com itself, meanwhile, redirects to ClarkCoalition.com, which refers users to all the other movement sites. "Many of the sites are sitting on servers," explains Paul Wilson, 37, a member of the Draft Clark movement from Albany, N.Y. "He offered space."

So, the utterly grassroots campaign started by political operatives was hosted by a friend of the family. Yep, that's not the slightest bit sleazy at all.

But its typical. Leave it to the political insiders to trick up some "grassroots" imagery to try and stop a real grassroots movement. Its all about the power folks, they have and they bloody well intend to keep it.

http://www.theculturalelite.com/archives/2003_09.html


All of this cooked up in Arkansas with George Soros' money behind it.

I want to find out more about his organization. It's called
Americans Coming Together (ACT) and has over $70 million to spend to get Bush out. $10 million is coming directly from Soros and $12 million from six other people. I'd really like to know what 6.

And God, we need the money badly. We need Bush out badly but at what price?

Everyone knows I'm no Dean fan because he's no liberal. He's a Centrist and I think rather opportunistic but that's just my personal assessment. The peoblem with Dean, who was the DLC's poster-boy until he decided to manage this Presidential campaign 'his way' is that he's not suave enough and too uncontrollable- not versed at the neo-con game either... so what did the powers that be do?


Wesley Clark’s Newest Mission: Destroy Howard Dean’s Momentum

Exclusive commentary by CK Rairden

Sep 17, 2003

That loud thud you heard yesterday was Howard Dean’s jaw dropping after a 15,000-foot bomb was dropped on his campaign. News reports finally verified that four-star General Wesley Clark will announce his intention to seek the Democrat nomination for president. After months of speculation that Clark would run, the one underlying question has to be--why now?

The answer is clear, Howard Dean and his gimmick campaign was supposed to peter out by now. Or at least lose some momentum. But it hasn’t. Despite numerous mistakes, flip-flops and horribly misguided stances on issues relevant to the security of the country, Howard Dean has parlayed his anti-campaign into firm front running status.

That has the Clintonistas, and the DLC petrified.

Enter the General. General Wesley Clark, your mission, should you choose to accept it---derail Howard Dean and destroy his momentum. With the fingerprints of the Democratic Leadership Council still clearly visible on the back of his starched white shirt, Clark was shoved into the race by the wing of the Democratic Party who is frightened of Howard Dean driving the party over an electoral cliff.

General Clark is nothing if not media savvy. For some time, CNN has paid Clark to appear on many of their news shows, well except for Lou Dobbs who booted him off his program, to run Wesley Clark propaganda unchecked and bash President George W. Bush at every opportunity. This should come as little surprise to savvy news observers who understand that CNN has little problem with propaganda as long as they feel they are getting an “exclusive.” And Clark himself is no stranger to propaganda, stretching the truth, distorting facts and misleading viewers of many political programs to push the Wesley Clark agenda. He has changed his position so many times on the war with Iraq, we will all have to wait until his next comment on the war to see what his position is today.

<snip>
http://www.washingtondispatch.com/article_6644.shtml

[belle]

94. You know what, though, people are complex.

I wouldn't assume he has any other goal than what he says here: to get rid of Bush.
Yeah, he may *also* be doing really skanky things to make all that cash; but I can believe, given his background, that this isn't simply about grabbing power for himself. He thinks Bush is another Hitler. (Which, if he isn't, it isn't for lack of trying).
He knows better than most of us exactly what that could end up meaning: he lived through the real deal.

Anyway, he's already *got* seven billion; he already *is* one of the world's most powerful people. He certainly doesn't want to be president himself. Maybe there's some other golden boy he and/or some powerful friends want to install in the White House; but it certainly doesn't seem that way at the moment, and anyway, who could possibly be worse than this?

Yeah, maybe it'll end up with a power grab on his side; something along the lines of, oh I don't know, buying a media empire. Is this a bad thing? Yeah, fighting powerful oligarchs with powerful oligarchs does kind of suck; but this is, at least for now, the world we live in. If we want to create a different sort of world, we need time and a reasonable degree of security to do it in. We won't have that with four more years of Dubya. That seems to me the bottom line. He really is that dangerous.

[Tinoire]

118. It ends up with one world bank- all in the hands of George Soros

Like Madeline Albright, asked if the price was worth it when half a million Iraqi children died under US sanctions, he'll answer

"We think the price is worth it".

We are talking about the Carlyle Group and friends here... Any price is worth it. The boys have some mighty grand plans... Buying a Presidency for a few million is cheap pennies for the return on the dollar they're planning. New World Order here we come...

Bush is dangerous, but he's just one head of the Hydra. If we vote him out just to vote another one in, what will we have accomplished?
Is a smarter Bush a better Bush?

And through this, when I think of this and the DLC that has so over-taken our party, all I can think is "Was Nader right"?

[saoirse]

83. Naysayers: you suck

Leave it to you to say that every silver lining has a grey cloud, even when it doesn't.

This is fantastic news - I hope it starts an avalanche of support from lots of other well-heeled progressives. Every time one more voice speaks out against Bush, our momentum grows.

Anyone who can say this is a bad thing, well - frankly, I have to question your motives.

[hang a left]

84. Just livin in the real world, that's all.

Sucks doesn't it.

[Name removed]

139. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lorien]

196. Only if we allow it to

In the real world, it takes money to have a voice. In the real world, staying "true to your idealism" often means losing the battle AND the war. In the real world, compromises often bring success. Liberals keep losing in the real world because we keep DEMANDING purity from every last person on our side who represents us, unlike Repugs, who are more concerned with winning than with "voting our concious". Until we liberals can grow up and accept the fact that the ONLY way we'll see ANY of our ideals advance is to accept the political reality that there will always be a bit of sour with the sweet, then we will continue to sit smugly by in our homes saying "it's not my fault everything SUCKS because I nobely voted my concious and lost". Biting this hand that tries to feed us is nothing short of fucking insane. I don't care if the guy is a bona fide former Nazi himself (instead of a survivor of Nazi occupation, which he was) Ousting Bush is the best thing that can happen for the planet right now, so I will applaud and thank him for his assistance in this achieving this goal.

[Tinoire]

200. And if his only intent is to replace Bush with a smarter Bush

do you still feel that way?

Is that all some of us want? Someone who will allow us to continue our mundane little American existence without having to confront that our way of life is paid for by the misery of others?

Bush's biggest crime is that he

1. exposed the game (for people like Soros)
2. didn't leave us our normal crumbs


Is that all we want? Someone who will allow us to keep burying our heads in the sand?

Yeah we need the money but I would prefer to get it from people like Barbara Streisand or Steven Spielberg. We do not need Soros.

Are we this easily manipulated?

[nolabels]

86. What would you want, put out that we are slap happy with nothing to say

We won't be the one bursting your bubble, Mr Soros will. We really don't have much to do with any of this. We are just putting out what we see and can dig up.

People just don't wake up one day with billions of dollars in their estate, that stuff comes from some where, and probably not from others with similar amounts

Wake up now, there is no such thing as Santa Claus

ON edit: syntax and a lump of coal in my sock

[saoirse]

87. Thank you for dispelling my illusions

Before your messages, I was foolish enough to believe:

1) That it takes money to run a campaign.

2) That even the purest and saintliest progressive candidates receive monetary donations.

3) That you don't look a gift horse in the frickin' mouth.

You tell me who's not living in the real world.

[hang a left]

88. Don't shoot the messenger.

[PassingFair]

108. Well, thanks for the warning...

But if this guy bankrupts himself unseating "WhistleAss", then he can come and live in our little ranch house, and I'll take care of him like a daughter.

[nolabels]

89. You seem a little hostile

It takes lots and lots of money to run a campaign and I would vote for Clark, Dean, Kerry or who ever gets the nomination. I have donated a few hundred already how about you (I am lower- mid income). I also would like to ask you if Dennis Kucinich got the nomination do you think Mr Soros would support him (be honest)

It's not looking a gift horse in the mouth, its watching where the money comes from.

on edit: More syntax and make that two lumps of coal

[truthisfreedom]

96. maybe soros would support kucinich.

maybe he's doing something from his heart. he is, after all, an old man. people's motives change when they see things from the perspective of mortality. i think that great age can be one of those things that does bring about change.

[hang a left]

101. In my view ,if Soros was truly interested in promoting peace

and democracy, and an open society, he could kick down a few million to the BBV cause, while he has got his checkbook out. You think he doesn't know about that scandalous affair.

I don't think he would be the guy to support THAT cause.

[CaptainClark23]

90. Gifts and Horses

It is great news. We can use the cash, of course.

But the fact that he gave the cash does not make the man the poster child for the anti-bush movement.

In fact, the outpouring of support suddenly shown this man here today illustrates how effectively money talks.

What other discussions have there been in this forum about Soros and his political beliefs?

And it is precisely this reason why myself and others try and take a subjective view of the donation.

Not an effort to piss on anyone's parade. Enjoy the celebration, good news is welcome these days.

[Tinoire]

109. Tons in the DU archives- awful stuff. DEMOCRACY SOLD 2 the HIGHEST BIDDER

total destabilization of Indonesia
meltdown of the Asian economy beginning with the collapse of the Thailand baht & quickly spreading to Malaysia, Indonesia, the Philippines, South Korea.

Also the looting of the Russian economy, Ukraine and Belorussia

All of it under the guise of Democracy. I wish I hadbookmarked that recent LBN article about the young Czech kid who burnt himself alive and left a letter thanking us Americans for this "wonderful" democracy we brought to them.

Lasy year he was fined $2m for insider trading by a court in France.

Soros, who has or had business ties with Zbigniew Brzezinski, Henry Kissinger, the Carlyle Group, the CIA's Radio Free Europe, Wesley Clark, Richard Allen and George W. Bush (through Harken Energy), is not a friendly, tree-hugging, progressive out to save the world. He is the fist in a velvet glove to the Neocons' baseball bat across the nose. OCTOBER 20 , 2003 BEYOND BUSH II by Michael C.
Ruppert Peak Oil Dominates http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/102003_beyond_bush_2.html

Here's some more on this wonder hero some Democrats are ready to sell our soul to:

At Human Rights Watch, for example, there is Morton Abramowitz, US assistant secretary of state for intelligence and research from 1985-89, and now a fellow at the interventionist Council on Foreign Relations; ex-ambassador Warren Zimmerman (whose spell in Yugoslavia coincided with the break-up of that country); and Paul Goble, director of communications at the CIA-created Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (which Soros also funds). Soros's International Crisis Group boasts such "independent" luminaries as the former national security advisers Zbigniew Brzezinski and Richard Allen, as well as General Wesley Clark, once Nato supreme allied commander for Europe. The group's vice-chairman is the former congressman Stephen Solarz, once described as "the Israel lobby's chief legislative tactician on Capitol Hill" and a signatory, along with the likes of Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz, to a notorious letter to President Clinton in 1998 calling for a "comprehensive political and military strategy for bringing down Saddam and his regime".

Take a look also at Soros's business partners. At the Carlyle Group, where he has invested more than $100m, they include the former secretary of state James Baker and the erstwhile defence secretary Frank Carlucci, George Bush Sr and, until recently, the estranged relatives of Osama Bin Laden. Carlyle, one of the world's largest private equity funds, makes most of its money from its work as a defence contractor.

<snip>

So why is he so upset with Bush? The answer is simple. Soros is angry not with Bush's aims—of extending Pax Americana and making the world safe for global capitalists like himself—but with the crass and blundering way Bush is going about it. By making US ambitions so clear, the Bush gang has committed the cardinal sin of giving the game away. For years, Soros and his NGOs have gone about their work extending the boundaries of the "free world" so skilfully that hardly anyone noticed. Now a Texan redneck and a gang of overzealous neo-cons have blown it.

<snip>
As a cultivated and educated man (a degree in philosophy from the London School of Economics, honorary degrees from the Universities of Oxford, Yale, Bologna and Budapest), Soros knows too well that empires perish when they overstep the mark and provoke the formation of counter-alliances. He understands that the Clintonian approach of multilateralism—whereby the US cajoles or bribes but never does anything so crude as to threaten—is the only one that will allow the empire to endure. Bush's policies have led to a divided Europe, Nato in disarray, the genesis of a new Franco-German-Russian alliance and the first meaningful steps towards Arab unity since Nasser.

Soros knows a better way—armed with a few billion dollars, a handful of NGOs and a nod and a wink from the US State Department, it is perfectly possible to topple foreign governments that are bad for business, seize a country's assets, and even to get thanked for your benevolence afterwards. Soros has done it.

<snip>
http://www.mindfully.org/WTO/2003/George-Soros-Statesman2jun03.htm

PROFITEERS OF EMPIRE –
CHENEY, SOROS, AND CO.

<snip>

Now don't get the wrong idea: the profiteers of globalism are by no means exclusively Republicans. I may have a special animus toward the Republican variety, as I'll readily admit, but the Cheney-Halliburton connection is small potatoes compared to some of the big boys, like George Soros. While Halliburton's subsidiary, the engineering firm of Brown and Root, has the contract for building the extensive infrastructure required by US troops in the Balkans, Soros has set himself up as the official banker and chief investor of the region – under US government auspices and with US taxpayers money. Soros Fund Management LLC is investing $50 million in a project to aid business expansion while the US Overseas Private Investment Corporation (OPIC) – an agency of the federal government – will put up another $100 million in "loan guarantees." At an official ceremony inaugurating the program, Soros declared ``Of all the people present, I'm the most nervous, because I actually have to deliver.''


DELIVER US FROM EVIL
But it was NATO that delivered first. Soros was a key figure in the propaganda campaign leading up to the Kosovo war, first through his financing of the American Committee to Save Bosnia and a whole bevy of groups, many of them militant Muslims, preaching intervention in the Balkans on behalf of "human rights" The Soros propaganda machine ceaselessly agitated for war with Serbia, and when it came he and his pet "human rights" activists applauded the longest and the loudest. Now that NATO has come through, Soros must "deliver" – that is, create profits for himself and his investors. While known as a philanthropist, if a highly eccentric one, Soros emphasized that his fund would practice "tough love" and, in the words of the Bloomberg News report, "be driven purely by profit." To the victor goes the spoils.

THE PROPHET MOTIVE
But all of us are driven by profit, even the ascetic Ralph Nader and the hermits who mortify the flesh and live out in the desert – for there is such a thing as a purely psychic profit, that is a value that is not monetary but which exists in our minds nonetheless: religion, obligation, love, revenge, or any number of other purely human motives, both sacred and profane. Through his Open Society Institute (OSI), which has insinuated itself into academia, government, and every level of public discourse, Soros has poured his fantastic wealth into causes as various as cheerleading US intervention in the Balkans, funding Arianna Huffington's three-ring "Shadow Convention," and calling for drug decriminalization – and he reaps his psychic profit, i.e. the personal satisfaction of seeing his ideas take root. With branches throughout Europe and Asia, OSI preaches a "free-trade" version of international socialism, a universalist creed hostile to the idea of national sovereignty. He for some reason is particularly concerned with the problem of how to manage international monetary institutions via a single centralized authority, a world central bank run by global economic planners. In spite of the fact that he made his fortune as a speculator who famously broke the Bank of England, Soros has denounced laissez-faire in a very boring book, and has also called for international regulation that would prohibit the very activities that have made him one of the richest men on earth.

<snip>

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j073100.html
==================================================================

More on Bushladen Carlyle Group:
George Soros & James Baker are part of the Family


The first Bushladen article can be found at:
http://emperors-clothes.com/news/bushladen.htm


The article, written by Alice Cherbonnier, deals with the world's largest private equity firm, The Carlyle Group, a company that links George Bush Sr. and the family of Osama bin Laden. ]


Copyright © 2001 'The Baltimore Chronicle and the SENTINEL'

Republican-controlled Carlyle Group poses serious Ethical Questions for Bush Presidents, but Baltimore Sun ignores it
by Alice Cherbonnier

AN IMPORTANT TENET of journalism is that you should always ask, “Who benefits?”
In the case of a war, the answers to this question become of paramount importance. Suppose, for example, that profits from military contracting were to go in the pockets of a former U.S. President whose son (and a presumed future heir) is now President? Suppose further that such profits escalate in times of conflict. Wouldn’t this be of concern to the public? Wouldn’t you expect the media to be all over such an important ethical (not to mention moral, and maybe legal) angle?

Though described by the Industry Standard as “the world’s largest private equity firm,” with over $12 billion under management, chances are readers haven’t ever heard of The Carlyle Group. Isn’t that a little odd, considering it is run by a veritable who's who of former Republican political leaders. Former Defense Secretary Frank Carlucci is Carlyle’s chairman and managing director (who, by the way, was college roommate of the current Defense Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld). And that partners in this mammoth venture include former U.S. Secretary of State James A. Baker III, George Soros, Fred Malek (George H.W. Bush’s campaign manager, forced to resign when it was revealed he was Nixon’s “Jew counter”), and—presumably—George H.W. Bush?

We say “presumably” because the privately-held Carlyle doesn’t have to reveal information about its partners or investments to the SEC or to anyone else. Our former President is reported to be active in seeking investments for the Carlyle Group from the Asian market, and word is he’s paid between $80,000 to $100,000 per presentation.

All told, Carlyle has about 420 partners all over the globe, from Saudi princes to the former president of the Philippines. Its investments run heavily in the defense sector; they make money from military conflicts and weapons spending. But who in Baltimore knows about it?

<snip>

From the Baltimore Chronicle
http://www.baltimorechronicle.com/media3_oct01.shtml

Soros...And people jumping up for joy... I hate to piss on a parade but Good-bye Democratic Party. Sold to the highest bidder. The neo-cons will have won.

Soros's actions with Harken and Kanputun Oil, The Carlyle Group, and the Quantum Fund --- quite interesting reads... Should horrify any DUer.

[hang a left]

112. Wow and thanks once again Tinoire.

You know I have been thinking today....alot. Some very interesting events have taken place in the past couple of days.

1) Al Gore's speech that was mostly regarding the Patriot Act and other events post 9/11, sponsored by Moveon.

2) Soros and friends committing 5 million to Moveon.

3) Jimmy Carter's speech respecting same subjects as Al's

There is definately a movement going on against the current administration. The Big Boys, the ones that actually rule the world have decided there will be a management change, I think the decision was made a while back. But now, we are seeing the plan in action.

Tinfoil hat on. Who will emerge from the pack of 9. I believe will be the 'chosen' one. I think we will have some kind of proof of who he is when Al endorses. I think I already know who it is. But I will keep my opinion to myself......for now.

[Tinoire]

115. Their choice is Clark. I had posted an article about this months ago

as did several other concerned DUers. I do not wish to upset good, sincere people who are supporting Clark. I don't wish to upset anyone but the soul of our country is at stake. How can we ignore? How can we at least not search honestly?

I am more scared of the neo-cons than I am of Bush. Bush is nothing- he's one head of the Hydra- an inarticulate frat-boy who's given away their entire game. He must go before they "lose their investment". Will we be so naive as to think these smart, ruthless boys who have made billions destablizing other countries and waging wars and insurrections would have to honor to not have representatives in our party? To not have padded the playing field of Democratic candidates? I have no such illusion and am keeping the same careful eye as you... There have been many strange betrayals lately.

One of the most hurtful was when Clinton told us to "get over it".

Peace and thanks

September 18 by WAYNE MADSEN

Wesley Clark for President?
Another Con Job from the Neo-Cons

Let it never be said the neo-conservatives are not persistent. That's why they must be rounded up by the FBI and charged with violating the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) statutes. But let's save that issue for another time.

The latest trick of the neo-cons is running retired General Wesley Clark for President as a Democrat. But not just any Democrat -- a ''New Democrat.'' The same bunch that are pushing Joe Lieberman's candidacy are obviously hedging on their bets and want to have Clark in the race as a potential vice presidential candidate (to ensure their continued influence in a future Democratic administration of Howard Dean, John Kerry, or Dick Gephardt) or as a ''go-to'' candidate in the event that Lieberman stumbles badly in the first few Democratic primaries next year.

The ''New Democrats'' (neo-cons) are as much masters at the perception management (lying) game as their GOP counterparts (Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, and Donald Rumsfeld). Clark's presidential candidacy announcement in Little Rock is one warning sign. This city is a sort of ''Mecca'' for the neo-con Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) and its main nurturers, Al From and Bruce Reed. It was from Little Rock where the DLC propelled a little known governor named Bill Clinton into the White House. And although Clinton did not turn out exactly as conservative as the DLC hoped for, his support for globalization and selected use of U.S. military power abroad were neo-con keystone successes.

<snip>

More interestingly is how General Clark's Bosnia strategy ultimately goes full circle. According to Washington K Street sources, the law firm that established the Bosnia Defense Fund was none other than Feith and Zell, the firm of current Pentagon official and leading neo-con Douglas Feith. Feith's operation at Feith and Zell was assisted by his one-time boss and current member of Rumsfeld's Defense Policy Board, Richard Perle. Both Feith and Perle advised the Bosnian delegation during the 1995 Dayton Peace talks. The chief U.S. military negotiator in Dayton was Wesley Clark.

A long time ago, the French, tired of war, turned to a short general named Napoleon to lead them to peace and prosperity. Instead, Napoleon seized imperial power and ensured the French would have more war. After four years of Bush, the neo-con Fifth Column in the Democratic Party is trying to convince us that Clark is the ''anti-war'' candidate. Tell that to the people of Serbia, Kosovo, and Montenegro. Tell that to the coca farmer in Bolivia or Colombia who is trying to feed his family. Let's not fall for the deception and tricks of the neo-cons again. If you are tired of Bush, Cheney, and the neo-cons and their phony wars, Clark is certainly not the answer. He has been, and remains part of, the great deception of the American people.

http://thomasmc.com/0919b.htm

[Zhade]

144. Zbigniew Brzezinski? The guy who wrote "The Grand Chessboard"? Swell.

Good info in here, Tin. Thanks for the efforts.

[hang a left]

146. I just started that book.

[Tinoire]

153. I am afraid to read it - lol n/t

[Zhade]

149. Question my motives? Okay. I think that's healthy.

I think everyone should question everything they feel uncertain about. That's exactly why I brought up the points I did.

The other route is to wear blinders, and I believe you'll understand when I pass on those. Makes it hard to see what's really going on.

I certainly hope this causes more of an avalanche of support from private, everyday individuals. That would be terrific. But it is incumbent on We The People to remain aware of who may be manipulating us at any given moment. The price of liberty, after all, is constant and eternal vigilance.

[bloom]

97. This is awesome!

Maybe more will be encouraged to come forward.

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[CBHagman]

99. Godspeed, my Hungarian homeboy.

:loveya:

Oh, I hope nothing gets in his way. You know that Karl Rove and John Ashcroft, among other nefarious sorts, are sure to try to go after him...

[Djinn]

103. He's no angel but

It's pretty clear Soros didn't make his fortune being nice to old ladies and hugging baby deer - and he most likely has some really dodgy "associates" (other people have friends rich people have "associates") but he's not going to very popular with the prevailing powers that be over this so he's put himself out on a limb to try and bring a little accountable democracy back to the White House - it's not going to make me see Soros as a holy saviour or even a hero (as a proportion of his net worth it probably represents a proportion of income similar to what many DU'ers donate to progressive organisations every year) BUT that's not to say the money isn't going to come in handy and so long as there are no strings attached to the donation then I don't see a problem - if rich folk want to throw their cash around why not stand underneath with a bucket

[ozone_man]

102. He's a pretty interesting guy.

A liberal billionaire. Short on the dollar, long on gold. Long on getting rid of the BFEE.

[JoFerret]

104. Soon we will here the poor Republicans whining

about the monied elite and aligning themselves with the downtrodden poor. Just look for it.

[frank frankly]

105. nice to hear someone else say it

'Ousting Bush central focus of my life'

that is the right way to say it!

[David Zephyr]

107. Go Soros!

Oh yeah!

[Dr Fate]

110. If he's got money to give out, I'd prefer it go to anti-Bush efforts...

...go for it pal!!!!

It's about time we got some heavy donors- hey "Hollywood Liberals"- how bout you guys pledging some dough next???

[NastyRiffraff]

111. Keep the eye on the prize..

We all can agree, no matter whom we support as the Dem nominee, that Bush must go. It's no longer a matter of picking and choosing who helps us. The stakes are too high. And yes, Nazi Germany is a good comparison.

The stakes are THAT high.

WHOEVER helps us is our friend.

As Teaser said, the old Welsh saying: The enemy of my enemy is my friend. And the Welsh knew this all too well.

My background is Wesh and Hungarian.So this juxtaposes very well. Guess what...I don't CARE what Sopos has said/done in the past. If he's with us now....Mr. Sopos, welcome to the fold.

[VolcanoJen]

123. Message from the Moderator

Although it has been locked as a duplicate of this thread, those interested in the Soros story might want to click on this later thread, which contains some great discussion about this develoment.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=illegal code&saz=lock&forum=102&topic_id=213547

Thanks!
VolcanoJen
DU Moderator

[hang a left]

125. Thanks Jen, but the link is not working.

[truthisfreedom]

193. that link is broken, moderator

even if you copy/paste it, it doesn't work.

[Dover]

130. A handful of elites doing battle for power. How is this good?

WE THE PEOPLE have lost a grip on our democracy and have become far too dependent on others playing a paternal role. A few making decisions for the masses. I don't know all of Soros's motives or his politics, but I am skeptical. I think wealth/blue blood is thicker than democracy.

[mobuto]

143. Soros isn't blue blood

he earned every cent he got.

The man is supporting the right causes. He's far from perfect - hell, we all are - and in a private setting I'd be happy to detail what I consider to be some of his personal shortcomings.

But they're irrelevent here.

Because he's fighting the good fight, fighting for progressive issues, fighting for progressive Democratic candidates, and fighting to replace Mr. Bush in 2004. My only regret is that Mr. Soros didn't prioritize this fight twenty years ago, or else we might be living in an entirely different society.

Do not underestimte the power that great men can wield in times of crisis.

[Dover]

151. Are you arguing from an informed position on Soros?

http://www.mindfully.org/WTO/2003/George-Soros-Statesman2jun03.htm

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j073100.html

[mobuto]

156. Ok, now I'm more confused

So Soros is bad because he's taken consistently liberal positions?

Since when was it wrong to support Andrei Sakharov? To oppose Jaruzelski in Poland, Ceacescu in Romania or Milosevic in Yugoslavia? This is just bizarre.

[rman]

158. you'r omitting Soros' dealings with Halliburton, Carlyle, BCCI

those dealings is why Soros is suspect.

[Zhade]

154. Do not overestimate the selflessness of "great men", either.

You and I are far from perfect, yes. But you and I would also NEVER do business with the Carlyle Group, own a third of the BCCI-connected Harken, or be convicted of insider trading, either.

Just examine the one who brings the gold in a time of crisis. How does it benefit the bearer?

[mobuto]

157. Oh no?

But you and I would also NEVER do business with the Carlyle Group,

If the Carlyle Group wanted to take and invest my money, I'd say yes in a New York minute. I don't like how they make their money any more than you do, but I think I'd do well by them. Nothing personal, strictly business.

own a third of the BCCI-connected Harken

That's just silly. Do you know what percentage of Soros' holdings Harken represented? This is a man with more money than God, and you're arguing over chump change. Harken bought out a minor Soros concern with Harken stock, which Soros then sold. So what?

or be convicted of insider trading, either.

In a minor 1988 scandal that nevertheless involved practically every high flying French financier, and a not insignificant number of politicians on the side. Yet few were charged, and only Soros was convicted. Why?

[Zhade]

161. You'd do business with the Carlyle Group?

I will not pass judgement on your decision to do so - but as for myself, I will not take blood money, which is precisely what Carlyle deals in. I will never do business with criminals and traitors, such as Poppy Bush, James Baker, and many of their fellows at Carlyle.

Harken was BCCI-connected. You do realize the utter corruption that was BCCI, yes?

Why was only Soros convicted? I don't know. I wasn't the lawyer or judge on the case. But insider trading is insider trading. It's what Bush did with Harken, and Cheney with Halliburton, after all.

[mobuto]

184. I'm glad you're not one to pass judgement

As for Harken, Harken bought a small Soros concern with Harken stock. Soros then sold the Harken stock he received as payment. We're talking about a very small amount of money, by Soros standards. And as for BCCI, you're trying to make a case of third-hand guilt by association:

Not that Soros had anything to do with any BCCI misdeeds; not that anybody Soros was associated with had anything to do with BCCI; but people you associate with people you associate with Soros were criminals.

And in my book that's just plum silly.

But insider trading is insider trading.

No it isn't. You have to look at the circumstances if you want to maintain intellectual honeasty. The fact is that the circumstances surrounding Soros' conviction are murky, to say the least. People familiar with the case tell me that they believe the prosecution was politically motivated. That doesn't mean Soros is innocent, but it puts his conviction in a different light.

There's one other distinction - Soros was convicted in France, where securities laws are very different than they are here. I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert on comparative securities law, but I would not be surprised if his goings-on would have been legal if committed in the good old US of A.

[LSK]

135. we need the money

I see a lot of people saying be wary of him and they are probing into his past. So what. You think Bush is getting funded by a bunch of Angels? The reality is that you need a lot of money to get the White House. Bush will be getting plenty, so we need as much as we can get too. It is not a pretty game, but when a big time free agent signs up for our side, why should be say no or be worried about his motives? The alternative is 4 more years of Bush? Does anyone want that?

[Tinoire]

162. If the alternative to Bush is Soros- sorry- I'll regretfully keep Bush

If the alternative to Bush is Soros- sorry- I'll regretfully keep Bush because a stupid thief gets caught and can be stopped.

A stupid thief is noticed because he turns on the lights when he breaks into your home and you can see what he's stealing and where he's putting it.

A stupid thief will be hated and brought down by the people and the world itself. With the stupid thief, there may be, at least, a chance for us.

I fear the smart thief more.

May our choice not boil down to Soros vs Bush because in that case Carlyle wins. Bush is just one head of the Carlyle Hydra but thank God he's a stupid head .


I fear I'm with Al Sharpton on this one. God, I love this quote:

You know, the only thing I never got over in life is I took a young lady to a dance when I was in high school and she left with somebody else. And that's what the Democrats, some, have done <snip>

We helped take you to the dance and you leave with right wingers, you leave with people that you say are swing voters, you leave with people that are antithetical to our history and antithetical to our interests. I am saying in 2004, if we take you to the party, you going home with us or we're not taking you to the party.

[nolabels]

163. I hope the whole lot of them get stuck with there hands in the cookie jar

I am hopefull that other realize they are not alone we can make it if we all stick together and don't let them divide us and or let them figure out how to pick on weaker ones (they tried to do that in Iraq, and bit off more than they could chew)

They are pinned down in many places now and the many that have been down trotten in sticking together will make them weaker. What that means and how to do it, I don't know. But I think the answers are being handed to us, we just have to be patient. The old saying "Ye shall know them by the fruits they bare" works quite well for me.

[Tinoire]

164. PUTIN: Ousting SOROS & Khodorkovsky central focus of my life'

More Details- Soros funding OPPOSITION PARTIES TO PUTIN

<snip>

President Vladimir Putin is facing one of the biggest political crises of his four-year administration after police detained Khodorkovsky, Russia's richest man, at gunpoint on October 25 in Siberia and flew him to Moscow to be jailed.

The campaign against Khodorkovsky and Yukos, which has faced a series of criminal probes since July, is widely seen as Kremlin revenge for the billionaire tycoon's funding of opposition political parties and has alarmed foreign investors.

Hungarian-born Soros, who has long had difficult relations with Moscow, in a Russian newspaper interview early this week denounced the arrest of Khodorkovsky as "persecution" that would force business to submit to the state.

http://www.news.lt/Default.aspx?DL=E&ArticleID=62551

On edit: And I LOVE this quote:

<snip>

The assault on Khodorkovsky and some of his associates, who make up a group of core shareholders in the company, is widely believed to have been orchestrated by Kremlin hardliners apparently alarmed by Khodorkovsky's political ambitions.

"I believe that he acted within the contraints of the law in supporting political parties. I am doing the same in the United States," said Soros.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/031104/137/292zw.html

[David__77]

172. I do not like Soros, but I welcome his support.

I don't agree with his agenda for the former socialist countries. He has aggressively supported globalization and privatization. But I'm all for uniting everyone who can be united in fighting the Bush regime. I hope he coughs up many, many millions of dollars.

[hang a left]

173. Will keep on the front page until each and every DUer and

visitor sees this.

[glitch]

174. re the paradox of Soros: even criminals don't like fascists

sometimes.

[dai]

175. Thanks Tinoire!

Thanks to Tinoire for some very well researched posts. I knew Mr. Soros was less than the bastion of virtue, but I was unaware of his connections to the Carlyle Group.

My take on the issue at hand is this: Bush's policies are both destabilizing and disastrous, not only for average people like myself but also for billionaires like Soros. The GOP has become very skilled at manipulating middle and low income earners to do the bidding of the ultra-wealthy, using religion or fear of foreigners or overt racism...etc.

In a similar fashion, Soros is trying to use us sensitive liberal folks to advance his own agenda. I'm not saying that we have to turn down his donations, it's just that we should recognize that our vision for the future may not match with Soros' beyond giving Bush the boost. For this reason, it is necessary to remain skeptical of Soros and, more importantly, not let the man exert so much influence that he defines liberal values or the Democrat party.

[Tinoire]

181. Anytime ;) And hence the dilemna

It is an awful lot of money... Very tempting... For $10 million you can buy an awful lot in this world. Pretty cheap for an American Presidency but we are desperate :shrug: and the b*s*a*d* know it.

We are so desperate... Jacob, Esau and a bowl of lentils...

Democratic voters, hungry like the wolf.

If I had a life, I wouldn't know all of this and would be jumping for joy at the thought of this money. God I wish I had a life! ;)

Thanks Dai and welcome, welcome to DU :toast:

[TreasonousBastard]

188. Yes, it is a dilemma.

I've known about Soros for years, although there's a some good stuff in this thread I wasn't aware of.

Like it or not, we don't control our own destinies. Wealth and power have always carried the day, and the rest of us are dreaming if we believe that we can do much about it. What we do, whether we realize it or not, is merely ally ourselves with the currents of history that they are directing.

Soros is a part of the "permanent government" that directs history. It's not a great conspiracy, and there are no Illuminati running things. Bilderbergers, Trilaterals, and the rest are merely the rich and powerful following their instincts and herding together. They all have their own agendas, and their disagreements affect history as much as their agreements. But, they have the power to make their wishes reality, and history flows with the strongest of them.

The rich are not like us. They suffer from the same problems we do, but they have the ability to control them that we don't. They are often complex to a point we can't fully understand. Many have lived their entire lives in avarice, but many have retired into idealism. Carnegie said that a young man makes the money so that the old man can give it away. As the face of death becomes clearer and more defined, many ask what is to be done with the accummulations of a lifetime.

Soros' foundation has been involved in attempting to bring his vision of capitalism into the third world for years. In many cases, it was misguided or self-serving, but it is a vision that ultimately may bring good to the planet, unlike many other purely political visions. His present battle with Putin is for the soul of Russia. Putin is still an old-line hardass who distrusts power being shared with the private sector. Putin has vowed to destroy any private entity that challenges the central authority, and is doing a bang-up job of it.

I have no doubt Soros is worried that the incompetance of the present administration could bring down the entire world economy and let the earth descend into war. This is most likely his motivation in wanting to destroy Bush, and preserve his own interests.

So, we are left with the Hobson's choice of allowing ourselves to be drawn into the Soros camp, or fighting him with our own puny weapons.

Whatever we do, though, the war is now defined as between the Bush camp and the Soros camp, and the stronger of them will be the victor.

Me, I'll side with Soros as the lesser evil. I might not like his world, but there will still be a world.


Who knows what will really happen over the next few years, though, and in a hundred years, historians will still be debating these choices.

[hang a left]

191. Wise Words.

I think we get the money anyway. Regardless of how dirty some might think it is. My worry is that they are one in the same, Soros and BFEE.

[juancarlos]

176. sounds a little obsessed to me n/t

!

[hang a left]

178. Could you expound on your position?

[juancarlos]

197. To me it seems

that making G.W. Bush the focus of your life is obsessive, that's all.

[hedda_foil]

180. This great thread needs a major kick!

[Tinoire]

182. Hello!

Good to see you on this thread. Hope you'll be adding stuff with all your knowledge!

Peace

[Zhade]

183. Here we go, then - KICK!

NT!

[DemonFighterLives]

190. At least

The big money coming into democratic coffers gives hope for the future. Thank you Soros and Lewis. Now let's do what needs to be done and get on with the real world.

[Tinoire]

194. Kick n/t

:kick:

[Tellurian]

195. Anyone have more recent articles about Soros?

I've googled; but no luck.

[Tinoire]

201. Gotta use Google news!

http://news.google.com/

Jeez... make me spill all me secrets today ;)

Tons of stuff out there on Soros: http://news.google.com/news?q=Soros&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&edition=us&scoring=d


See my next post :)

[hang a left]

199. A kick for the weekend crowd

[Tinoire]

202. Carlye is buying this election! Guess who Khodorkovsky is... Carlye

This is just getting worse...

==================================

It was the day before Russia's parliamentary election campaign began that masked gunmen burst into the Moscow office of George Soros's Open Society Institute and carried away documents and computers belonging to the democracy-building organization.

The incident last week, coming on the heels of the imprisonment of billionaire tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky, raised yet another outcry in the West about the political direction the country is taking.

Foreign Russia-watchers saw the raid as an attack on Mr. Soros, who had poured more than $1-billion (U.S.) into building civil society in Russia during the past decade, and as yet more proof that the country is drifting back toward authoritarianism under President Vladimir Putin.

<snip>

As the parliamentary election campaign begins, Mr. Putin's popularity in Russia remains unassailable, and both his personal approval rating and support for the pro-Putin United Russia party have gone up since the Khodorkovsky affair began.

Most ordinary Russians harbour a deep dislike for Mr. Khodorkovsky and the other so-called "oligarchs," the handful of men who became super rich by snapping up state assets during a sell-off in the early 1990s. "We are not afraid of the old times, because then we had free hospitals, free schools, free summer camps for children. We lived well, better than this," said Tatiana Sablina, a 40-year-old selling her nephew's artwork on the Arbat, Moscow's historic pedestrian mall.


http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20031115.wputin1115/BNStory/Front/

Soros Foundation attacked again

Saturday 15 November 2003, 6:23 Makka Time, 3:23 GMT

<snip>

Friday's attack was the second such raid in barely a week against US billionnaire George Soros' charity's headquarters, police said.

<snip>

The campaign against Yukos is seen as a Kremlin warning to big business to stay out of politics, and a bid to restore state control over the nation's energy resources.

<snip>

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/541389F8-1058-4673-93E0-F71086A298AE.htm

<snip>

George Soros, the richest of the liberal philanthropists, has publicly declared that his good work on behalf of building "open societies" worldwide is at risk because of George W. Bush's assaults on an open society at home. So Soros will spend about $100 million trying to oust Bush.

<snip>
http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2003/11/kuttner-r-11-13.html

Investor firm puts off Russian deal
Bloomberg News Thursday, November 6, 2003
Carlyle Group, a Washington-based private equities firm, has put off plans to start a Russian buyout fund after Mikhail Khodorkovsky became the company's second adviser in the country to be jailed, its potential partner said.
.
Carlyle planned to start a fund with the Moscow-based Alfa Group. "Talks are on hold," Mark Bond, a managing director of Alfa Group's private equity unit, said by telephone. "The events of the last two weeks haven't helped." A Carlyle partner, Christopher Finn, declined to comment.
.
Carlyle has a close business relationship with Khodorkovsky, the 40-year-old chief of the oil giant Yukos who was arrested on Oct. 25 on suspicion of fraud and tax evasion. Platon Lebedev, a Carlyle advisor and the chairman of Group Menatep, a Yukos holding company, was arrested in July on similar accusations. Both deny the allegations.
.
Carlyle, which manages $16.4 billion, appoints senior political and business figures to help raise funds and identify takeover targets. Former U.S. President George H.W. Bush retired as a Carlyle adviser last month.
.
<snip>
.
Bond at Alfa said talks with Carlyle had also stalled because the American firm was less about entering into a joint venture. Carlyle operates its own buyout and real estate funds in America, Europe and Asia, though it has a joint venture with Riverstone Holdings to operate a $222 million energy and power fund. Khodorkovsky is an adviser to the energy and power fund, according to Carlyle's 2002 annual report. Lebedev is an adviser to Carlyle's European operations, which are headed by former Prime Minister John Major of Britain.
.
<snip>

http://www.iht.com/articles/116501.html


Putin does have something to be nervous about. His trip to Europe has failed. In Europe Russian president was given a cold reception and he was told straightforward that his policies concerning Chechnya and Russian business are unacceptable. Massive anti-Putin campaign started in the world’s press and was provoked by the arrest of Russian tycoon Khodorkovsky. Another warplane crash, and finally the refusal to extradite Zakayev, which the Kremlin regarded as betrayal of the British-Russian friendship.

Putin’s chief spokesman of anti-Chechen propaganda Sergei Yastrzhembsky announced Putin’s offence:

«British justice has a strange and, speaking frankly, slightly selective approach to fairness», Yastrzhembsky complained.

<snip>
As far as the culprit of Putin’s rage goes, he left the courtroom as a sort of a symbol of Moscow’s most disgraceful failure to impose its totally cheeky thesis that Russia is allegedly fighting against some «international terrorism» in Chechnya.

<snip>

http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/article.php?id=1959


Houston executives question future of Russian energy deals

Stunning political developments in Russia last week could threaten millions of dollars of oil deal negotiations between Russian and U.S. companies, including companies in Houston, say two local experts who spend much of their time in Russia.

Economides said in a phone interview from Moscow that many people in Russia believe the government has "effectively re-nationalized Russia's largest oil company."

<snip>

He believes the timing of the arrest and the stock seizure was significant, coming as Yukos was believed to be nearing a merger deal with ExxonMobil.

"They were negotiating furiously here until this happened. This was a preemptive move by the government," Economides says. "They wouldn't dare go after properties owned by a big U.S. multinational company."

<snip>

Now, Stinemetz says, Khodorkovsky has let it be known that he wants to run for president and has started backing opposition political parties. ((:bounce: Just like in the US!))

<snip>

Russian oil production could reach 12 million barrels a day by the end of the decade, and in the next two to five years Russian oil exports to the U.S. could begin to displace Middle East oil, according to a recent report by Wood Mackenzie Inc., a global energy research firm.

<snip>

http://houston.bizjournals.com/houston/stories/2003/11/10/story6.html
http://houston.bizjournals.com/houston/stories/2003/11/10/story6.html?page=2