Wiccan request gains support : Commander hopes VA allows symbol

[NVMojo]

CARSON CITY -- The battalion commander in charge of the Nevada National Guard unit that lost Sgt. Patrick Stewart in Afghanistan in September said Thursday that he believes the Department of Veterans Affairs will act favorably on a request to allow a Wiccan religious symbol to be used for Stewart's memorial at the Fernley veterans cemetery.

Battalion commander Lt. Col. Robert Harington also said he supports the efforts of Roberta Stewart, the widow of Patrick Stewart, to win approval to use the Wiccan symbol of a pentacle on her husband's memorial plaque.

"The system reacts slowly to change," Harington said. "I think Roberta has the right attitude. They will take care of it. They just need to grind it through the system."

Harington said he does not object to the use of the symbol -- a five-pointed star with one point facing up enclosed in a circle -- in a veterans cemetery.

more...

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Mar-03-Fri-2006/news/6174260.html

[LostinVA]

1. Yay!

[NVMojo]

2. it's amazing that it should even be an issue with all the other symbols

already allowed. The kid died fighting for this administration's agenda. He deserves is name and belief remembered.

[LostinVA]

3. I know!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. This should be a no brainer

They already allow symbols for just about every faith I know of-they even have a marker for atheists! So why not Wicca?

[Mithras61]

5. It's because some people associate the pentacle...

with the Satanists (point down instead of up). They also have a hard time separating Wiccans from Satanists and xtian churchies (those who attend xtian churches) are notoriously intolerant in dealing with either religion.

[kestrel91316]

13. So what? Even satanists have the right to practice their religion

AFAIAC. We either have freedom of religion in the US or we don't. By telling ANY particular religious group that they are not ok, we open a door to that slippery slope everybody worries about.

BTW, satanists do need to bear in mind that their religious rights end where my body begins, same as everybody else. And I think satanists are rare, if they exist at all.

The Cristofascists like to lump Wiccans with satanists, but they are either showing their ignorance, or deliberately trying to mislead people. I happen to think it's the latter.

[Mithras61]

19. I understand your viewpoint...

I was attempting to explain why so many xtians are opposed to Wiccan symbology.

[Dervill Crow]

28. The pentacle point down is used in gardnerian Wicca, too.

It might be second degree? That inverted pentacle has been used so much in movies and TV to denote satanism it still freaks me out, though, to see it that way. A Christian lady at work has a quilt with a star pattern hanging in her office upside down, and it bugs the heck out of me.

[crikkett]

15. what's the marker for atheists?

an international 'no' sign? (snicker)
seriously, i wonder...


thanks,
-c

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

17. It's been ages since I saw it

I believe it was scientific symbols, like the infinity symbol and stuff like that.

[crikkett]

24. I found it!

Only took half the morning.
LOL


Also came across a hilarious inscription: Here I lie, all dressed up and nowhere to go.

All symbols listed here:
http://www.cem.va.gov/hmemb.htm

[NVMojo]

37. sounds much better than being raptured and spending eternity with

FUNDIES!!!!

[shadowknows69]

43. International sign of the donut

n/t

[Carni]

6. Why IS IT...that this is even an issue?

If the guy were anything else a Muslim, a Jew, a Christian, Hindu etc etc they could not dare to restrict a symbol so why in the world is Wicca any different?

This infuriates me

[LibertyLover]

7. It may be changing soon

Several national pagan groups are working on getting this changed. Pete Pathfinder of the Aquarian Tabernacle is one and Circle is another. My high priestess emeritus, Rosemary, is one of many Wiccan families affected and started working on getting the pentacle approved over 3 years ago when her husband, who was a World War II veteran and a Wiccan as well, died. The fight has since been taken up by others as Rosemary is in poor health these days but she hopes that it will be resolved soon so that Abe's ashes, and hers when the time comes, can have the symbol of their faith on their memorial plaques. Circle reported a few days ago that they were working with a pagan veteran's family in the Southwest and had just been informed by the Veterans Administration that their filing to have the pentacle included as a bona fide symbol on veterans' memorials had advanced to the next level of review. What part of "equal rights for all" is so hard for these people to understand?

[winter999]

9. When was the Wiccan religion considered organized?

Wasn't this kind of recent?

[Mithras61]

10. That depends pretty heavily on who you ask...

since the date ranges from ~35,000 years ago to 1979, depending on the source.

[winter999]

16. I had the U.S. Government in mind

when I asked, since it is they who determine what organization is considered organized religion. Personally, I think any symbol the vet wants on his headstone should be allowed. However that would also mean tolerating Confederate Flags, Swastikas, and other hate symbols. And, no you couldn't just outlaw "objectionable symbols" since they change over time (100 years ago neither Confederate Flags nor Swastikas were considered "hate symbols"). I have a feeling that 1) this is the first request of the VA to have a Wiccan headstone and 2) this is a PC issue - "don't want to offend anybody", especially in a graveyard.

[Mithras61]

18. I see...

Well, the U.S. Army recognized it in 1999, so that should be enough for the Dept. of Vets Affairs...

[Bridget Burke]

21. Why is it "PC" to avoid offending people?

Sounds like human decensy to me.

[Dervill Crow]

31. A pentacle on a headstone would have freaked me out when I was a Christian

Far too many people are clueless about other religions and there's a lot of fear as a result.

[Bridget Burke]

33. Well, I was raised Catholic.

So I got used to lots of symbolism--much of which predates Christianity.

The first time I saw the interior of my community's Baptist Church, I thought there had been a robbery. Where was all their stuff?

[Dervill Crow]

34. LOL!

:rofl:

That might explain why my husband (raised Catholic) is so uncomfortable whenever we are in a Protestant church but seems perfectly fine with my altar in our family room.

[LostinVA]

40. hahahahaha -- I know!

I was raised Catholic, and the first time I went to a rock-solid Protestant service, I was like -- what's going on? This sucks. And, where IS everything??? And, what the heck is this weird communion they're doing???

[Dervill Crow]

30. In 1988 the military recognized Wicca as a religion.

Traditional Wicca is very organized. That's a huge part of the reason I'm a generic Pagan and not Wiccan. :hurts:

I think Buckland brought Wicca to the US in the 1960s, so it's been around a good while.

[Chovexani]

36. We've enjoyed tax-exempt status since 1986.

Look it up.

If people have a problem with pentacles because they've seen one too many bad horror movies, that's their problem. Fuck, let's ban crosses too, personally they scare the shit out of me.

[newspeak]

25. the symbol

also has been used for "protection." My daughter is in the military and her faith is nature based. There are others, along side her, who believe in forms of nature based religion. Satanic? How could it be satanic when they don't believe in the big boogeyman, Satan? These soldiers fight and die to defend our country and especially, to protect the Constitution--they have a right to their faith and symbols.

[bobthedrummer]

8. Col. Michael Aquino and his evil cult's "influence" again imo

even the blind can see that now.

[newspeak]

27. Col. Aquino

and his sect I saw in the seventies on Phil Donahue show and have read about him--he is not Wiccan!!!! He proclaims to be some form of Egyptian influenced group which falls nicely into a group that was chanelling back in the late fifties-channelling entities like Seth and Thoth, etc.... Amazingly, it seemed that they only channelled male entities-no females. At the time, some of our politicians were involved with this group. I bet many here did not know this. However, looking at Masonic concepts-it seems to be an influence of Egyptain and Hebrew ideas, not just ancient Hebrew. He is not representing nature based worship; and I wonder if his actual motive was to use a belief system to control soldiers. Again, he is not Wiccan.

[Solon]

38. Dude, that's the Temple of Set guy, NOT Wiccan, think before you...

spout off!

[LostinVA]

41. WTF are you talking about?

[neverforget]

11. Any bets on when the Christian Right fights to stop this?

You know they're going to stick their nose into this and they'll win because they're Bush's base. BTW I hope Patrick Stewart's family wins.

[underpants]

12. Am I correct to assume they mean the star? There are several

http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefswiccasymbols.htm

[Frank Cannon]

14. Didn't the pentacle used to be a CHRISTIAN symbol as well?

Seems I heard that the five points represented the five wounds of Christ on the cross. And the five-pointed star itself looks vaguely like a man. Five was a mystical number even in the early Christian church.

My wife sings a very old folk song called "Green Grow the Rushes O", which includes a lot of Judaeo-Christian references. One of the references the song makes is to "five for the symbols at your door". This was apparently a reference to the pentagram, which I'm told that people used to place on their doors to protect their houses from evil.

A lot of perfectly innocent pagan and early Christian symbolism got completely maligned with the persecution and destruction of the Knights Templar, which was purely due to politics and greed. For instance, the horned god was never associated with the Biblical Satan until the whole Knights Templar debacle.

[Mithras61]

20. I THINK so...

AFAIK, it was used like the modern Amish hex signs...

[LostinVA]

22. Yup -- it was used against Pagans -- even though Pagans DO NOT believe

in a "Satan," ie duality of god/gods/animus/energy/etal.

[LibertyLover]

23. Yes,

in early Christian and Medieval Roman Catholic church symbology, the pentagram (five pointed star) or the pentacle (a five pointed star in a circle) represented the five wounds of Christ.

[Taverner]

26. Gnostic Christianity used the Star

And some of the founders of Wicca used a lot of gnostic philosophy

[KittyWampus]

29. The Pentacle is NOT just a Wiccan symbol. It's deeply embedded in

Judaism and also Christianity.

It is a symbol of Mankind.

[Dervill Crow]

32. Kewl.

I did not know that. In pagan symbology it represents the four elements and spirit. But probably everybody knows that. Or maybe not. I was looking for something in my jewelry box and found a pentacle ring that I bought when I was very Lutheran. Guess I thought it was pretty.

[Chovexani]

35. You know it's sad

It's 2006 and this is still even an issue.

My heart goes out to Roberta.

[MADem]

42. It will be approved, I will bet. The DVA just hasn't caught up with DOD

yet. DOD doesn't have a problem with it, it's just an unfortunate paperwork issue. Someone doing a review of instructions and notices at DVA did a sloppy job of cross-checking reference material, otherwise they would have caught the disparity before now.

It is a pity that she had to go through this, but I suspect her husband is the first Wiccan (who declared his religion as such on his forms) to be killed on active duty--either that, or the survivors of others decided to use the parental or spousal religion in place of the deceased's desires.

[derby378]

39. Well, if it was good enough for Pythagoras...