Washington State Considering 'Pharmacist Refusal' Proposal

[Mrs. Overall]

SEATTLE - Getting a prescription filled is pretty straight-forward. Take the doctor's slip into the pharmacy and get the medication. But some pharmacists are stepping up and saying they won't fill prescriptions on moral grounds. The debate centers around the so-called morning after pill, or Plan B.

"Pharmacists have to have a right to exercise their conscience in these morally troubling situations. I believe it's a right we get as being citizens of the United States," says Bellevue pharmacist C.J. Kahler. It's a national debate that's playing out in our state as the state pharmacy board considers a measure to protect pharmacists who refuse to fill prescriptions.

Opponents say the measure would let a pharmacist's rights trump the patient's. "They are really elevating their interests, their personal interests above the needs of the patient," says Nancy Sapiro with the Northwest Women's Law Center. "The regulations that govern pharmacists are very clear that patients' interests come first."...But supporters insist there are ways to protect the rights of patients and pharmacists at the same time.

more:
http://www.komotv.com/stories/42362.htm

[ananda]

1. Scary...

In a sane world, this wouldn't even be an issue.

Sue

[saigon68]

17. These SLUGS are really "Terrists"

But this Chimpanzee will protect them

[MrPrax]

25. Actually in the SANE world...

it isn't an issue...

[sui generis]

2. state needs to revoke their licenses

it's disgusting. Like everything else these immoral bastards can't think of the tiniest consequence.

So if I wanted to make a statement I wouldn't serve christians antibiotics at my pharmacy because I think christianity is immoral.

Is that absurd? Not absurd to think that a pharmacist might refuse to give someone with the clap antibiotics, might refuse to give people with AIDS antibiotics, or people with HIV their meds.

What about a pharmacist who doesn't believe ANY medication should be given out if it interferes with "god's will", just where is the bar here?

[Warpy]

3. What they should consider is the refusal to license any pharmacist

whose religion encourages him to countermand a doctor's order.

These pious assholes need to find jobs away from human beings. They aren't fit material for the job of dispensing our medications and educating us in their use.

[AlamoDemoc]

20. Hear Hear! you said what I want to say...thank you

[MadMaddie]

4. These pharmacist knew going into their career choice..

The types of medications that would have to distribute.....


This is an issue that will snowball into another fiasco....
If they had a problem they should have picked a different career.
What if the pharmacist is

A racist....doesn't want to give a black American drugs for lets say sicle cell anemia..

Homophobic...doesn't want to give medications for aids....

Hates womens reproductive rights.....won't give birth control pills....

But I guarantee they don't have a problem handing out the enabler pill for men to perform their act...

<snip>
"Pharmacists have to have a right to exercise their conscience in these morally troubling situations. I believe it's a right we get as being citizens of the United States," says Bellevue pharmacist C.J. Kahler.
<snip>

[BOSSHOG]

6. May I suggest

they have been planted in those jobs for the express purpose of refusing such medication to women. And the ensuring uproar will publicize their efforts further separating America. I know thats about as crazy as the vice president of the United States getting drunk and shooting a friend in the face but I believe it. Pharmacists encouraged by their ministers to "do the right thing." "Stand up for gawd."

A bible no more belongs in a drug store then it does in a recruiting office.

[LostinVA]

7. I tend to agree with you on that -- at least some of the pharmacists

have been...

[MadMaddie]

8. Honestly I didn't think about that....and in today's

environment I think there is a great possibility that this has occurred!!

[havocmom]

10. a-yup That is it

And I hope some fire fighters start refusing to put out fires, on moral grounds of course, if the homes of these self righteous pigs need protecting. Also, time to look into slapping some of them for practicing medicine without a license.

[BOSSHOG]

16. Or better yet on the other hand

"Christian" firefighters refusing to put out fires at homes of "known" homosexuals. Now that would fan the flames so to speak.

[tanyev]

18. Bet you're right.

Just like there has been a deliberate effort to take over local school boards.

[Blue_Tires]

40. similar stuff has happened

on school boards across the country...now all the schools in my area have that 'one nation under god' framed poster in the office

[n2doc]

11. This "right" crap is complete bullsh**

You are right about the examples you give. No-one has the "right" to deny service to someone based on their beliefs. Period. We settled this back in the 60's, at least I thought we did.
I can't refuse to pay taxes just because my religious beliefs don't support murdering innocent civilians, supporting Genocide, and encouraging industries that destroy our environment.....
I can't refuse to serve food to a fundie in a restaurant....

[LuckyLib]

5. Isn't this outrageous? Great letter in local Minneapolis paper:

In light of the recent support of pharmacists using their moral judgments to deny service to customers, I have some questions:

• Can Muslim convenience store clerks sell me coffee and doughnuts, but send me to a different store to buy beer because they morally object to drinking?

• Can my fundamentalist video store employee allow me to rent "Crash" and "Walk the Line" but direct me to his coworker to rent "Brokeback Mountain" because he objects to homosexuality?

• Can Jewish clerks at the grocery store sell me milk and eggs but send me to a different checkout aisle to buy my bacon because they morally object to eating pork?


DONALD LIVINGSTON, MINNEAPOLIS




http://www.startribune.com/563/story/304647.html

[Blaze Diem]

12. Common Sense Rules

Thanks D Livingston..
So have the W-bots an answer for this one yet?

If the job interferes with your personal religeous mantra to the point where you can NOT perform the tasks of said job..then find a job that fits you.

"but fundie is the only belief that counts.." I can hear that one already.

Can a group of UFO believers call it a religeon? Start a church? Legislate on behaf of their belief?
Imagine what their wish list of laws would look like.

[n2doc]

13. imagine a church that REQUIRES you to hand out drugs!

I'm sorry, but my belief system requires me to offer you all the pharmaceuticals that you want. Give me your list!

[Lars39]

9. They are trying to re-define pregnancy.

Unless implantation occurs, there is no pregnancy.

[eauclaireliberal]

14. Pharmacists DO have the right to refuse to fill certain prescriptions

based on moral grounds, and their employers reserve the right to terminate employment for financial reasons. C'mon, repubs: Jesus or not, let see that business model in action!

[TlalocW]

15. And my moral and religious beliefs require me

To jumped over the counter and attack pharmacists who refuse to hand out Plan B, and I'm not even a woman. It's just part of this weird church I belong to.

Man, freedom of religion is great.

TlalocW

[depakid]

19. Just the opening salvos

If people don;t think that the far right is after their birth control, they're not paying attention. Next step once Roe and Griswold are overturned, will be to state laws that deny birth control to unmarried women. Next, it'll be all women.

[arwalden]

21. But Plan-B Is *NOT* An "Abortion-Pill" As Many Try To Claim...

... it's just a mega-dose of a birth-control medication, right?

Are these same pharmacists refusing to fill common, ordinary, everyday birth control prescriptions? Or are they simply ILL INFORMED and falling for the RW propaganda?

[Occulus]

23. They know exactly what they're doing.

Watch- this WILL result in pharmacists refusing to dispense birth control at all.

And to the poset above, who talked about how fundies got into the job and should have known what to expect- exactly. They DID know what to expect. This is part of their plan.

[MountainLaurel]

24. It's already happening

Pharmacists refusing to fill scrips for plain old birth control:

http://www.prevention.com/article/0,,s1-1-93-35-4130-1,00.html

http://www.abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=131591'

http://www.saveroe.com/fillmypillsnow/stories

[uppityperson]

39. That is what it is, megadose of bc pill (of a certain type) BUT

most any type will work. Originally there was 1 specific type of OC (oral contraceptive) that was used, then it became not common for regular contraception so the pharmacist could be pretty sure of why it was being rx'ed. One problem is that the container must be labeled as to how to use it, so no matter what type OC is used, the pharmacist is tipped off. Regardless, it is the job of a pharmacist to dispense medicines. It is also his job to check for worng prescriptions and interactions as the pharmacist can be held liable for this. It is not a pharmacists job to refuse to dispense the right medicine in the right dose to the right patient it is correctly prescribed for.

Here is the website on different type OC's used for plan-B. There can be serious side effects, or no side effects, depending upon the person.

http://www.fwhc.org/birth-control/ecinfo.htm

[HuffleClaw]

22. ok, what if the pharmacist in question refused to fill a prescription on

RACIAL grounds? one of those loons who belong to that white power 'church', i suspect other pharmacists wouldn't be leaping to their feet to defend that.

[MrPrax]

27. Wouldn't happen...

These people are being run by a sophisticated campaigns where using 'race' wouldn't be politically advantageous--in fact they would lose popular support and the media would stop reporting on them. Also if you notice, these groups never attack 'womens' rights' straight on--for the same reason, it would cost them support and the media would disown them.

They take single moral quandries (Should we dispense 'methadone' because it is a drug?--same thing from the 60s) and recast them as religious doctrine.

Once the issue is struck with a religious patina, then the Movement can ensure the issues wide circulation in both the media and as well as other co-religions. If you notice they EVEN gain support from Liberals themselves who constantly balance 'religious freedom' to the detriment of 'personal freedom'.

It really works in the US, where even an issue like abortion that might have clear public support for 'choice', the capacity of an extreme minority to organize a large 'vapor' movement is ensured by the 'rotten boroughs' they call 'states'--if your extremist minority can buy one of these state legislatures, then the amount of political vandalism that can be launched against the whole nation is limitless.

[WinkyDink]

26. To me, it's the essence of simplicity: Can't fulfill the job requirements,

can't keep the job.

[Mithras61]

28. I have a proposition for those who oppose this plan...

Let's offer an alternative plan to this one. Let's offer the opportunity to license a pharmacy as a "Christian" pharmacy, which won't dispense birth control pills, viagra (or equivalents), RU486, condoms, or any other form of birth control or pregnancy assistance (including prenatal vitamins!). A violation of this licensing code would come with significant jail time for the pharmacist and any other employees working there that allowed the prohibited items from being in the store. Further, anyone working in such a pharmacy would specifically be prohibited from using those same aids. The requirements would also place the word "Christian" in the name of the pharmacy so that people could tell going into it that they would not be able to buy any form of birth control, pregnancy prevention, abortifacient, condoms, etc., and would therefore have the choice UP FRONT of choosing whether or not to support that pharmacy.


We can then offer the people a choice between "Christian" pharmacology and REAL phamacology, and see which one REALLY survives in this country. They can put up or shut up... their choice.

[donkeyotay]

36. Exactly. If they want to be Christian Pharmacists

then regular pharmacies should be able to ask before hiring, "Are you a Christian whack job who is going to interfere with providing service to my customers? Because if you are, I won't hire you."

Of course, then they'd be crying about how they're persecuted.

[rustydog]

29. So, do these MORAL Pharmacists who refuse to sell Plan B

To prevent a pregnancy still sell viagra?

[donkeyotay]

37. I have moral objections to Viagra and, in fact, to all pain medications

that allow people to circumvent the pain god planned for them.

Well, according to Dr. Dobbins, it's something about life beginning when the egg and sperm "line up." Apparently, in this bizarre world of the religiously insane, it doesn't matter how many sperm line up. Therefore, I'm thinking Viagra induced, recreational ejaculations are okay.

[Mike Daniels]

30. Why don't they open their own pharmacy if they have this issue?

I would think they could just open their own pharmacy and put out a sign that says we do not stock "drug XYZ".

At that point, let the market decide if they succeed as a business or not.

The only thing I could see that would nip this idea is a law that says "pharmacies must carry drug xyz". However, I don't see how a state government could force a pharmacy business to carry a specific product.

Even if it was required to carry a particular medication I imagine the owner could easily say "sorry, we're out of stock and don't forsee having product "x" in any time soon.

[northzax]

31. Massachusetts, among others

requires state licensed pharmacies to carry birth control, although I'm not sure exactly what form of birth control they have to carry.

[ekelly]

33. Because they know

as well as we do that the "religious" people in their communities aren't quite as chaste as they publically proclaim.

They know they would be out of business fast.

[ekelly]

32. I find it disturbing.......

and funny at the same time.

Disturbing because they believe religious freedom outweighs the decision between a patient and doctor.

Funny because while they claim religious freedom is so important, they trample anyone who doesn't agree with their religious views.

Either religious freedom counts or it doesn't.
The hypocrisy boggles the mind.

[electron_blue]

34. I keep asking, and nobody answers me... What about the cashiers

who refuse to ring up the Plan B (or whatever) prescription. Are their rights goign to be protected, too? I know, I know, lots easier to find someone to ring up the prescription, but c'mon - they'd get fired, right?

Why are pharmacists getting more rights/privileges than the average cashier.

[Quantess]

35. I think it's valid, sort of.

So, say the cashier refused to pay for the plan-B (or whatever), in an attempt to prevent the person from leaving the store with the meds. But, that would only work if all the cashiers refused, and if every employee in the store who knew how to do transactions also refused.

Pharmacists are special in this case because they are licensed to dispense medication, whereas *most* other people are not.

[mimitabby]

38. i wrote to the state pharmacy board

When people go to pharmacy school, they should be taught there and then that they are required to dispense prescriptions.
When they are hired as a pharmacist, they should sign an agreement stating that they should dispense prescriptions.
There are muslims and mormons who work in supermarkets who are required to sell things like alcohol
and tobacco. If they all decided that they didn't need to sell those things, the stores would be in chaos.
I believe disciplinary action is what is necessary for pharmacists who dare to pass judgement on their customers.
If I find out that the pharmacy I go to is engaged in this kind of behavior, i will go somewhere else.