Sgt. Faces Court Martial for Bush Criticism

[pitseleh1]

According to Radio Link, a US National Guard soldier who criticized Bush's justification for war on air may face a court martial. Sergeant Jessica Macek appeared on WNTA while home on leave from Kuwait.

http://www.radioink.com/HeadlineEntry.asp?hid=115712&pt=todaysnews

Attention was called to Sgt. Macek's comments by conservative commentator David Hale of the right-wing Illinois Leader, with some help from the Drudge Report.

http://www.illinoisleader.com/letters/lettersview.asp?c=9809

According to one I.L. reader said, " knows that a person in military service has lost the right to speak badly of anyone else in the military except through the correct channels." Sadly, according to the Uniform Code of Military Justice, he may be right.

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/commentary/20030619_falvy.html

[RandomKoolzip]

1. The first amendment is officially meaningless.

We can all finally go to bed. Free speech is only allowed when the republicans and the military say so. Fuck! Vancouver here we come....

[demsrule4life]

16. There has never been free speach within the military

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl134-12.htm
This falls in under Art 134 of the UCMJ

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl88.htm
Art 88 is for officers

Every person in the military from the highest general to the lowest private has it drummed in their head over and over that you do not talk bad about the president, does not matter what party the president belongs to.

[atreides1]

26. Even Art 134 will be a stretch

1)That the accused made a certain statement

Yes she did make the statement

2)That the statement was communicated to another person

No doubt about this element

3)That the statement was disloyal to the United States

That one is going to be hard to prove

4)That statement was made with the intent to promote disloyalty
or disaffection toward the United States by any member of the
armed forces or to interfere with or to impair the loyalty to
the United States or good order and discipline of any member
of the armed forces

The prosecution has to prove intent, and they would have
to show where the statements affected good order and the
discipline.

5)That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to
the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces
or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.

Her statements brought discredit upon Shrub, not the armed
forces.

First they have to charge her, and then an Art 32 hearing has to
take place, at which time a military judge will decide if it
should continue to a Courts Martial. Once that decision is made
the circus starts.

I was an NCO in the US Army, I was the Operations NCO for my unit
while stationed at Ft. Carson Colorado. I have also worked at a
JAG(Judge Advocate General)office, had to appear before a board
for retention, and recived an Art 15.

It's always good to study the MCM(Manuals of Courts Martial), it
can help you and the soldiers under your command.

[demsrule4life]

29. Forgot one

Certain disloyal statements by military personnel may not constitute an offense under 18 U.S.C. §§ 2385, 2387, and 2388, but may, under the circumstances, be punishable under this article. Examples include praising the enemy, attacking the war aims of the United States.

I'am retired military with 24 years served, you were an NCO, we both know if the military wants to get you they will. We both took several oaths to support those appointed above us. Personally I wouldnt want it any other way. The day our troops don't support the president (of any party) is the day our country is in real danger. Our military has never attempted a coup and hopefully never will.

[bobthedrummer]

2. She said what the whole world knows-Bush* lied.

Right on, sister!
BTW, welcome to DU pitseleh1:hi:

[pitseleh1]

7. thanks!

It's so much less frustrating here than on US Politics Online.

[truthspeaker]

3. those rules apply to lowly sergeants

But apparently if you're a Colonel like Boykin you can say all kinds of crazy things while in uniform and not get in trouble.

[wysimdnwyg]

4. She's toast

The UCMJ forbids this kind of thing. There's no way she's going to get off. Welcome to civilian life.

[libertad]

8. You are correct.

She's in big trouble.

[Bandit]

15. I would like to see some proof of your assertion

It has been my impression that the UCMJ only says officers may not speak about their superiors in public. It has no such inference on enlisted personel. Where do you get your information?

[demsrule4life]

17. See my post #16

Military can always get you for braking "good order and disipline"

[Romberry]

20. No they can't.

I'm a vet and I'm telling you that what you assert is simply incorrect. Such a charge would never stand. You wouldn't even get away with pushing for an Article 15 on this.

[Romberry]

19. Actually, I don't think it does

Read carefully:

http://www.military-network.com/main_ucmj/SUBCHAPTERX.html#888.88

888. ART. 88. CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS

Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

I'm a veteran and a lot of vets are bad about "misremembering" what is in the UCMJ. Enlisted members do not give up their right to political free speech as long as they do not hold forth publicly as a representative of the military.

Also see the DoD Political Activities by Members of the Armed Forces on Active Duty at http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/html/134410.htm

Court Martial is an empty threat here. No charges are possible for expressing your opinion on a factual matter concering the president.

[demsrule4life]

23. Why I posted both articles

Art 88 which covers officers and Art 134 "the catch all article" All the military has to do is prove that the Sgt comments was in violation of good order and disipline, the sgt is toast.

4 years Army
20 years Air Force

[Romberry]

27. Excercising the protected right of speech..

...can not be prosecuted. If it happens I'll buy you a six pack of your favorite brew. They are blowing smoke.

[demsrule4life]

30. My favorite beer is Einbecker Dunkel

Have to make a trip to north Germany to buy it. It would be an expensive six pack. :)

[Sinistrous]

28. The prosecution has to demonstrate all five elements in the article.

I believe showing numbers 3 and 4 in her statement is a real stretch.

[Sparkle]

5. Were there soldiers that criticized former President Clinton

to the media? If so, did they get reprimanded? If they did, then this person should get the same treatment but if they didn't, then they should leave her alone. I just don't want to see a double standard. Of course Clinton didn't lie to start a war either....like Bush* did.

[demsrule4life]

11. Yes

Several higher ranking officers lost their careers for bad mouthing Clinton.

[Romberry]

21. But this isn't a higher ranking member.

This person is enlisted. Different set of rules.

[demsrule4life]

25. You are correct

Art 88 is written for officers
This will get everybody else

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl134-12.htm

[bobthedrummer]

24. Some of the neo-conservative dominated military think tanks studied coup

that's how extreme some of the leading militarists in US are.
http://www.guerrillacampaign.com/coup.htm

[zbdent]

22. Yes, and they were given high praise in the Congressional Record

by Repukes.

[Noordam]

6. this could work against Whistle-Ass and the military

Gee to get kicked out of the military and out of Iraq all I had to do is get a reporter and say Bush lied ...Mmmmmmm Lot of low time soldiers would do that......

[pitseleh1]

9. actually...

Check out the last link (to FindLaw) the rule only applies to certain troops. It seems that if you are a private, you can say what you want. ...well, I'm sure it's more complicated than that, but take a look.

Of course, if you were stationed in Iraq, chances are you already know a lot more about this than me.

[DemBones DemBones]

10. Dishonorable discharges really do go on your permanent record,

though. Not everyone would risk that.

[Noordam]

14. In Nam people shot themselves in the Foot to go home

Mmmmmmmmm....

[bobthedrummer]

12. Rumsfeld lied in his "Message to the People of Iraq" transcript

http://www.dod.gov/transcripts/2003/tr20030430-secdef0138.html

[MetaTrope]

13. Easy exit from Iraq for soldiers here...

Just tell it like it is!

[JailBush]

18. When I was in the Navy, we were told we couldn't criticize

superiors, including the commander-in-chief. I thought this was a well known law, and it makes some sense - though there are obviously times when one wishes the rules didn't exist.

What would be interesting is if HUNDREDS of troops listened to their conscience and blasted away. Also, I wonder what kind of orders troops who are about to return to civilian life are under. Suppose a thousand of them began speaking out the day their military service ended.

However, I'm not sure how soon they'd return to civilian life. I THINK I recall a rule that certain military regulations still govern your life for several months after you revert to civilian status. The government may also be using other tricks to maintain silence. I just think it's bizarre that we've heard so little feedback from GI's - unless very few of those who have served in Iraq have become civilians yet.