New World Healthcare Rankings - US 16th, tops UK. Canada 4th

[Screaming Lord Byron]

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/publicservices/story/0,11032,1085259,00.html

Anyone know if these figures are reliable?

[Gulf Coast J]

1. About as reliable as health care ranking can be

Seems like there would be a hundred different ways to rank countries in terms of health care. I'd put as much stock into it as a preseason AP college football poll. Both are reliable, but don't really mean anything.

[papau]

10. Preventive efforts on diet/smoking/ee mental health/safety have no value?

"New research from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine has reassessed healthcare performance in the industrialised countries, taking other factors - such as diet and smoking rates, accidents and suicides - out of the equation."

[mobuto]

2. This is a misleading way of looking at it

Because what we see here is the mean outcome.

The US has the best healthcare system in the world, by a mile. But only for those who can afford it.

So what we have is a large group clustered at the very top, and a large uninsured group, with no comprehensive healthcare whatsoever, clustered at the bottom. So I suppose its conceivable that our mean average might be slightly higher than Britain's, but the real problem remains. Its as if three beggars and Bill Gates were riding in an elevator and you report that the average rider is a billionaire - its true but thoroughly misleading. The real problem is of course that tens of millions of Americans remain clustered at the bottom and their sickness costs our economy far more than it would be to provide them healthcare.

Of course there are other oddities. Canada has a pretty good healthcare system, fine, but better than France? Ich don't think so. Denmark and the Netherlands, below Italy? Bizarre.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

3. UK below US despite National Health Service?

Seems odd.

[LivingInTheBubble]

4. The NHS is pretty shit.

Sorry to say :-( Still a little surprising though eh.

I've only heard good things about Canadas health care though..

[Screaming Lord Byron]

5. Ah. I think this is a grass is always greener type thing.

Our healthcare isn't that marvellous. It needs a lot of work.

[Johnyawl]

6. I think we can concede that NOBODY...

...has a PERFECT health care system. Canada's system - from all I can see from across the border, and from what my Canadian friends tell me - certainly needs some work. The US system on the other hand needs to be completely reworked.

[jbutsz]

12. question for Canada

Are there long waiting times (months) to see office Dr's/Specialists?

My mom is a nurse here in the US and "socialized medicine is a failure, it doesn't work; in Canada it takes months to see a Dr; US is the best" is like a daily mantra here passed down from the Drs. I'm sure it is as long as you have Cadillac-grade insurance or stock in Halliburton to afford it with.

I've been wondering if it's true, if it's hard to get access to adequate health care when it's Nationalized. Being someone without health insurance here in the US capitalist-healthcare system, I don't have <i>any</i> access to health care so naturally I'm very curious about nationalized medicine.

[Spazito]

13. No, for the most part, access is good...

but there are waiting lists for some of the more extensive procedures, usually due to inadequate #s of the more expensive equipment.

The fact that all Canadians are covered is a big plus. HMOs hate universal health coverage because it is not profit driven, it is patient driven.

[jbutsz]

25. figured

I figured it had to be at least somewhat better than our capitalist-driven healthcare where it's only good if you can afford it, but I want to hear it from Canadians themselves that for the most part if you're sick you don't have to worry about suffering a miserably-untreated disease or illness merely because you're unemployed or can't afford $1000 a month independent family health insurance.

Our health system is really barbaric unless you're rich, a real scandal. Much like our so-called justice system.

[Frederic Bastiat]

22. Canada has no statistics of waiting lists

Treat any evidence you get here as purely anecdotal, it is not in the interest of the government (which is also the healthcare provider) to maintain such statistics.

[AP]

14. This an important lesson for people who think single payer health care

is the key issue for 2004. It isnt. All will NOT be solved if the US switches to single payer. This is especially the case since there's still a culture of letting big business run everything. A single payer plan in culture of corporate control will just result in big companies working the system to guarantee taxpayer-subsidized guaranteed profits.

I could be wrong about this, but my impression is that NHS sucks in the UK becuase it had been underfunded accross the board for years under Tories. In the US, and NHS-equivalent wouldn't be underfunded. In fact, it'd be over-funded, but, like Bush's education plan, it would be overfunded (through regressive taxes) so to channel tons of easy profits to connected corporations.

The net effect would be similar to the Tory-controlled NHS: not enough money would go to things that actually saved lives.

[Rose Siding]

21. Do you mean single payer or universal HC?

Because these industrialized nations are ALL still ahead of the US:

Sweden
Norway
Australia
Canada
France
Germany
Spain
Finland
Italy
Denmark
Netherlands
Greece
Japan
Austria
New Zealand

Maybe it's a lesson for the UK (improve!) but why would it warn off the US?

[The White Rose]

8. Hmm. Mostly agree, however...

...not sure about the "large group clustered at the top" part. Certainly, the US can offer very high quality healthcare to those that can afford it, but with so many Americans enrolled in HMO plans (especially out West), or having mediocre insurance (getting worse as employers cut back), or being completely uninsured (about 43 million), I would suggest that the majority rarely enjoy "the best healthcare system in the world" as you put it. After all, how good can a system be when almost 600,000 people a year die from diseases they didn't have before entering hospital, or from being given the RIGHT DRUG in the RIGHT DOSAGE, or because some quack doctor pulled out the wrong body part?

[AP]

15. We have a health care system that manages to keep Dick Cheney alive

but gives 100s of 1000s crappy HMO health care. America deserves its 16th place ranking.

[TrogL]

7. nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah, nyah-nyah - Canada's fourth

Actually, I think we slipped a couple because of SARS.

Note that Norway and Sweden have totally funded socialized health care.

I'm not sure what's happening with Australia.

[Frederic Bastiat]

23. Swedish system is part private

Unlike Canada, google the "Healthcare + Stockholm model". Don't know much about Norway. Sweden also has a population about the size of NY City.

[denverbill]

9. Surprise, surprise. Everyone with NHC beats us.

What isn't included in this shitty study is that the US pays 50% more per person for healthcare than every country on that list, despite getting worse quality care.

[stevedeshazer]

11. The US is #1

In wealthy insurance and pharmaceutical executives.

[AP]

16. The health care industry is the largest industry in the US.

It makes up something like 20% of the GDP. It's also the highest profit margin industry in the history of the world, or something like that. Its profit margins are over 50%.

[underpants]

20. ABC:There are more people doing paperwork than Dr.s and nurses

15% overhead for HMO's and providers while 3% for medicaid and medicare.

It was part of ABC's week long series a couple of weeks ago.

[Norcom]

24. Would love to see evidence of that

Could you provide us with some concrete evidence to back up your claim that the health care industry has the highest profit margin in the history of the world and that its profit margins are over 50%?

Thanks.

[saigon68]

17. Congrats Canada

I guess your country is the place (according to the Chimpanzee) that has all those dangerous, cheap drugs that it will soon to be a felony for us to try to buy.

For our sick 75 year old parents, who are being forced to sell their house.

[Spazito]

26. I just don't understand why seniors aren't covered....

it makes no sense to me, but, then again, I truely believe in universal health care, it works.

On a side note, saigon68, your sig line (I think that is what it is called) has one of the most powerful statements on Vietnam I have ever seen, our history channel has used it on occasion. Thank you for reminding me about it.

[Rose Siding]

18. WHO had us at 37th 6 years ago

And *I* haven't seen an improvement. How many more millions have no health care now?

There is a useful chart at this link- scroll down- with rankings for a dozen countries, life span, spending per person, etc.

http://www.courses.fas.harvard.edu/~ss98em/D&S_baxandall_health.htm

[underpants]

19. Yeah but when do the BCS numbers come out?

Our "strength of schedule" is going to vault us right to the top.