Bush stands firm on passports for Canadians

[CHIMO]

Bush stands firm on passports for Canadians
Last Updated Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:28:12 EST
CBC News

U.S. President George W. Bush won't change tough new identification requirements for Canadians entering the United States, but says he hopes new technologies can provide an efficient way to deal with the issue.

Bush made the comments as he, Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Mexican President Vicente Fox spoke Friday during the closing news conference of a two-day trilateral summit in Cancun.

In 2007, Canadians will be barred from entering the United States unless they have a passport or a U.S.-issued border-crossing card. The so-called "laser visas" include biometric identifiers such as fingerprints or retinal scans.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/03/31/mexico-summit060331.html

So looks like passports will have to become a tax deductible item. At least for the Canadian truck drivers and business leaders. Don't see why it can't be a free document.

[TaleWgnDg]

1. This is gonna kill the tourism trade for both sides of the border n/t

[hedgehog]

2. Yeah, boy, can't trust those Canadians,

Bush is getting us ready for the war over the Northwest Passage.

[brooklynite]

37. Well, don't forget...

some of them speak French.

[Erika]

3. Try being an American entering into Canada!

They are far stricter.

[TankLV]

24. BULLSHIT.

I'm from Buffalo - we went back and forth with NO PROBLEM.

People commute to and from Fort Erie and Niagara Falls Ontario for daily jobs and visa versa.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Prove your LIE or shut up!

[appleannie1]

27. I just visited Canada

All I had to show to get into Canada was my driver's license. Coming back they did not even ask for ID. Just wanted to know if I bought anything in Canada that I might be taking across the border. I said "no" and they waved my through.

[Zorra]

30. Come on...being stuck in a small room while immigration officials

tear your car apart as dogs sniff the interior while some yokel is looking through the fibers of the carpet on the floor with a mag lite isn't strict, is it? Or being forced to re-enter the US because a passenger in your car got a DUI somewhere back around 1978 can't be considered strict could it?

Just two of the many fun adventures I have had with Canadian Customs officials over the years.

Yeah, I'd say they are pretty strict from my experience.

[Raine]

33. I've never had trouble

getting into Canda but once had trouble coming back into the US with the American agents. x( Apparently they thought I had bought something and was not reporting it to get out of paying the tax on it. The agent was a real smart ass and started searching everything then he made the mistake of starting to dig around in the area that I had put my dog's food and supplies and my dog set up such a ruckus growling and barking that the guy decided to finally pass us on thru.:rofl:


Edit: wanted to add this was way before 911, clear back in the early 80's.

[DrDan]

36. not my experience

passed through customs in Montreal a few months back - no problems whatsoever

[DetroitProle]

45. Nope.

I go from Detroit to Windsor at least once a month. Gotten hassled by both sides, but the American side much more.

[tabasco]

49. Not my experience.

I travel to Toronto often and have little hassle going into Canada.

What has your experience been?

[noonwitch]

51. I never had any problems at the Detroit/Windsor crossing

I haven't been over for a while, but the canadians did search my car once. I had a brand new red Probe, and it had that hatch on back. They had me pull over and open it up so they could look inside. They were very nice and polite about it, too.

The american officials used to just ask a couple of questions, pre 9-11. They'd ask where you lived and what your citizenship was.

[bee]

53. Ive never had any problems going back & forth in NH.

Just a drivers license gets me "Thanks, enjoy your stay" every single time.

[wookie294]

4. Most 9/11 hijackers came to America legally

Most didn't have criminal records, either.

It's amazing that 19 hijackers truly did kick America in the balls and won.

[newspeak]

26. well, I guess you don't remember

the immigration official after 9/11 who was told to not do background on those coming from Saudi Arabia. I remember his interview on TV right after 9/11. My jaw just dropped.:wow:

[Canuckistanian]

5. I really need a passport

I've been putting it off for a while now. Not that it's a problem, but the CEO of our company keeps warning us about the new rules and the hassle at the airports if we don't get a passport.

It's almost as if they don't trust us anymore....

[DBoon]

6. Damn right they don't trust you

you could be carrying in some of that BC bud

[Canuckistanian]

7. Me?

I WISH.

[hedgehog]

8. Reminds me of the good old days, when it was get a haircut or

take the long way around from Buffalo to Detroit if you were a young male. (Long haired males could count on getting searched at the border if they took the short cut across Canada.)

[Canuckistanian]

10. I'm not quite that old

But I was a kid in the 60's. I knew a few things about "hippies" back then.

And it wasn't what you saw on TV.

[hedgehog]

11. I went to college at University of Buffalo in the early 70's and I

remember some of the stories about legendary border crossings at Detroit and Buffalo. The guys I knew weren't hippies, they didn't even drink all that much, but they were guilty of being under 30 so they were suspect. They took the long way around on the trip back.

[madrchsod]

9. how about barring

their dam bacon? you want canadian bacon on your pizza? fuck no- i want american bacon!

[Marie26]

12. Here's the big picture

Britain is trying to pass legislation to put RFID tracking technology into all its ID cards. At the same time, Sensenbrenner writes a bill to create a "REAL ID" card to identify all Americans & also deport all who are in the country illegally. At the same time, Bush promotes a measure to create a "border-crossing card" for Canadians. But this is no ordinary ID card, it's a souped-up card w/"biometric identifiers". Bush is confident that "new technologies" can deal with the border-crossing issue effectively.

In response to the US measure, Canadian minister has said that Americans will also have to carry the document to enter Canada. By 2008, anyone who enters Canada w/o a passport cannot come back to the US. From the linked story, "The United States is also putting pressure on European countries to speed up introduction of new high-security passports containing a computer chip with a digital photograph." Pretty soon, anyone who wants to enter the US will need these hi-tech cards, and anyone who leaves it.

Bush has very deep ties to many of the info. technology companies that can create these hi-tech cards. One of them, ChoicePoint, was responsible for falsely flagging voters in Florida as felons during the 2000 election. As a reward for that mistake, the database company has boomed under the Bush Administration (Halliburton-style) & it now receives tons of gov. contracts to create TSA "no-fly lists", "preferred flier" lists, "Patriot Act compliance" databases & biometrics technology. It's basically the corporate NSA, in the same way that Blackwater is now a corporate Army. I'd bet $100 that they will also receive the contract to create these new cards.

Why does this matter? ChoicePoint is also part of the "Total Information Awareness" Program that was supposedly shut down. TIA created a huge database of information on all Americans & assigned them a "risk value" for terrorism. Instead of being shut down, it was simply shifted into the NSA, as Gen. Hayden admitted. And this was probably done so NSA could combine the TIA databases w/the info gathered from illegal eavesdropping, as well. Because Congress specifically prohibited TIA, the NSA simply outsourced it to ChoicePoint & other crony companies. OK.

So, if the Bush Ad. (w/Choicepoint) creates one of these "high-security" passport cards; they can combine together all the database info from the TIA, NSA, no-fly lists, & biometric ID & put it on the card's computer chip. Ta-da! Instant 1984. Scanning the ID card reveals everything, just everything about you; from your bank accounts, to your travel history, to your employer, to your dissident activities. And, of course, we would need to carry these ID cards in order to prove our American citizenship. Americans would be tagged & corralled like a bunch of cattle. And, coincidentally, the Dept. of Agriculture is promoting RFID technology to ID domestic animals, as well. This all creates oodles of money for the data-tracking industry, & gives them the impetus to create the technology required for these ID cards & passports. If this flies, they'd not only know who you are, but your entire life history, your genetic & biological features, and your "security risk" score. All that's left is to hit the start button; and start denying travel, banking, employment, & rights to those w/too high of a score. That would chill dissidence & protest better than any detention camp. We'd be imprisoned already, within an authoritarian country that has total knowledge of our movements & activities.

But at least the illegal aliens are gone.

[HuffleClaw]

13. basically the same thing the soviets once did

only with todays available technology, far more efficient. an intellectual gulag.

[Marie26]

14. Right

It's an intellectual gulag, an information gulag, that is being built around us brick-by-brick without us even noticing. That's why I feel like people are missing the point sometimes when they worry about "liberal detention camps," or the "Secret Service." They're using old models to try to interpret a very new style of facism.

[Bozita]

15. The RFID Gulag is a real threat

All we need is another Diebold Election Day.

[Marie26]

31. The State Dept. to use RFID in new "e-passports."

It's sort of already starting, IMO. The State Dept. began issuing "e-passports" this February as part of a pilot program. They are planning to include the "e-passport" technology into passports for the general public this summer. Each e-passport has an RFID chip embedded in the back cover. I just wanted to post this so people know about this program & can maybe get passports now if this troubles them, before the "e-passport" program is fully implemented.

State launches e-passports, rejects security concerns -
http://www.gcn.com/online/vol1_no1/38340-1.html

State Department unveils trial of electronic passports -
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0206/022106tdpm1.htm

RFID: Regulations Set, But Questions Remain About ePassport -
http://www.crmbuyer.com/story/46977.html

State Dept. website - The U.S. Electronic Passport

"The proposed U.S. Electronic Passport is the same as a regular passport with the addition of a small contactless integrated circuit (computer chip) embedded in the back cover. The chip will securely store the same data visually displayed on the photo page of the passport, and will additionally include a digital photograph. The inclusion of the digital photograph will enable biometric comparison, through the use of facial recognition technology at international borders. The U.S. “e-passport” will also have a new look, incorporating additional anti-fraud and security features."

http://travel.state.gov/passport/eppt/eppt_2498.html (scroll down)

[Marie26]

43. Following the money

In Nov. 2005, a French company named "Axalto" was awarded the State Dept. contract to create these new "e-passports". http://www.axalto.com/health_id/epassport.asp . Why this French company? I'm pretty sure why they got the contract, but there's a bit of backstory to the explanation.

France is the world leader in "SmartCard" technology. "Smartcards" ("carte à puce") was invented & developed by a Frenchman named Roland Moreno, and the biggest manufacturers, Axalto & GemPlus, are both located in France. "SmartCards" are small chips that can be embedded into ATM cards, phone cards, etc. to contain information. They are very similar to RFID chips, in that they can be read remotely & contain data, but unlike RFID chips, they also have microprocessors & 64K of writable memory. They're basically mini-computers. http://smart_card.iqexpand.com/index.php?title=Fr:Carte... France has been blowing away the US competition w/this technology. They've been using "smartcard" technology since 1983.

In Jan. 2000, an American equity group named "Texas Pacific Group" invested $500 million dollars in GemPlus, and received a controlling share of the stocks. http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=28118 . At the time, this was the largest equity investment ever in Europe. This was very unpopular in France, where it was rumored that the bid was an attempt by the US gov. to take over French technology. After the buyout, the new board made some odd decisions. First, they decided to "outsource" all development & manufacture of the "Smartcards" to the US. This created a massive outcry in France & labor unions protested & striked until the board eventually backed down. Second, in 2002 the board appointed a new President, an American named Alex Mandl. Mandl resigned his position as a board member of "In-Q-Tel" to take his new job as GemPlus CEO. He is still the CEO today. http://www.ufppc.org/content/view/1810/2 /

"In-Q-Tel" is an operation of the CIA. They're quite open about this. According to the CIA website, In-Q-Tel is a "public-private partnership to ensure that the CIA remains at the cutting edge of information technology advances and capabilities." http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/inqtel / The CIA formed this operation in response to fears that the US was falling behind on spy technology. In Jan. 2000, the project was re-named In-Q-Tel. According to their website - "Venture capital is a valuable tool which In-Q-Tel uses to accomplish its mission. An integral part of the venture community, In-Q-Tel has access to the latest technologies emerging in the market and operates by providing development funding and taking small equity stakes in companies with promising technology." http://www.in-q-tel.com/about/index.htm . It's run by a Board of CIA & IT experts who decide what technology the CIA needs to possess. So, it's quite likely that the money for this TPG fund actually came from the CIA's In-Q-Tel, who then turned around & appointed a In-Q-Tel board member to manage the company on its behalf. Sort of a Trojan Horse thing - we don't need to develop the technology if we can control the company that does.

Here's the final piece of the puzzle - In Dec. 2005, one month after the epassport contract was awarded to Axalto, Gemplus & Axalto announced plans to merge their rival companies. http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Articles/2005/12/08/37... This merger has been approved by the boards of both companies, & is currently awaiting EU approval. The new, merged company will be called Gemalto, and Alex Mandl will take over as its Executive Officer. This deal will create the largest SmartCard vendor in the world, w/11,000 employees & $2.1 billion dollars in revenues. (http://www.gemplus.com/press/archives/2005/corporate/07... ) Despite the global dominance of this company, the US's anti-trust division approved the merger. http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11743988 /. We don't care that a French company will soon control most of the smartcard market? Of course not; we control it. So, I think the company that creates these epassport chips is itself partially owned & operated by the CIA. That doesn't reassure me. Now, all of a sudden, Bush is pushing the need for "hi-tech border passes", epassports, REAL ID's & guest worker passes while the US gov. has a substantial share in the company that creates them. That's billions of dollars being handed to, in essence, the CIA to include smart chips into every passport in the country. Makes you wonder what will be included on those microprocessors. I'd really appreciate any comments on all this, especially since I'm way out of my depth on the technology aspects. Does this make sense? Am I missing something? Is it time to make a run for the border? Or maybe I'm just seeing something that isn't there (hopefully that's the case).

[slaveplanet]

50. what border?

Don't you understand this is going worldwide eventually.

There will be no refuge.
We will pay for our own enslavement.

It's quite the ingenious plan, in an "evil villain" James Bond kinda way. Everything will be run like China before the real "fun and games" begin and they get the population numbers down to where they can rule in comfort...Forever.

A confederation of satanic criminals.

[Marie26]

52. Well, thanks

Good to know. I'm not happy to join the tin-foil crowd on this stuff, but that seems to be where the information leads. Not to say that I necessarily think they're trying to "reduce the population", or that NATO is a Nazi Org. (is that what the avatar means?) or all of the other theories out there. But IMO the use of RFID/surveillance technology is a cause for concern.

[slaveplanet]

57. I think their gunning for a combination

race war/civil war stateside piggybacked with ww3 in the mideast to draw the whole world in. With a definite possibility of Microbe poisoning and starvation if things don't live up to their expectations. They'll also use peak oil in there for leverage.

Nato will be involved.

[AzDar]

56. ...And THIS is why Monkeycrust refuses to 'change his position'...

various entities who helped him pull off his coup need payback.

[flyarm]

55. whoaaaaa..glad i got a new one in december..and its good 10 yrs!

i don't want the damn chip....and mine says its good for 10 years..whew.......

fly

[slaveplanet]

48. believe me, there will be camps as well

and civilian work details. They use them mostly to deter civilians from even thinking about protesting. But those lacking documentation or those who refuse to go along...there will be accommodations.

I'm in full agreement with the rest of your assessment of the electronic straightjacket...It's frighteningly close and very few realize the full scope.

[tanyev]

19. So if I go to Canada without my passport,

I get to stay there? *fingers crossed*

[Marie26]

21. If you don't have a passport,

you can't go. This is in the future though, 2008. But Canada is enforcing these provisions as well (as a backlash to Bush's new requirements for Canadians). So if an American tries to enter w/o a passport, they'll be turned back. And if, for example, someone is labeled a "security risk", they might not be allowed to fly, use trains, or enter another country (based on info contained in the RFID passport). We'd be essentially imprisoned in the US. I know that post was hugely paranoid, but it is where I feel we are headed. Usually I try to provide links & stuff, but that was more a synthesis of all the different news articles I've seen on this subject. If anyone would like links, let me know & I'd be happy to provide them as well.

[rman]

39. kick,

etcetera

[rodeodance]

16. 'everything is different after 9/11 mentality. I so tire ot it.

[saigon68]

17. The Thugs, War Criminals and Hoodlums love to control the Sheep

BAA BAA BAA

[LynnTheDem]

18. Terrorism; use of violence or the threat of violence to attain

political or religious ideological goals;

destabilising or destroying the fundamental political constitutional, economic or social structures of a country;

to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion;

to provoke disproportionate reactions from governments;


OBL won.

[suegeo]

20. So Bush stands firm.

Wow I'm impressed with his manly manliness. (Well not really, I think he's a walking disaster, but jeez who writes these headlines? Crack smokers?)

[TrogL]

22. Just what Buffalo, NFNY, Detroit and most of Washington State needs

less Canadian tourists bringing in badly needed cash.

[TankLV]

25. EXactly. But these cities are hugely DEMOCRATIC.

Cooincidence?

[earth mom]

23. Sounds like retribution to me.

Maybe Harper wasn't willing to go along with whatever b.s. plan * tried to talk him into down in Cancun, as in: The United "Countries" of America = U.S. + Canada + Mexico.

[lovuian]

28. Canadians are ticked... Canadian friends of mine are furious

they fly down and spend the winter in Florida but are selling their place because they are so tired and furious at what is going on when they enter and leave the country... Its not worth the winter in Florida anymore....

[tsuki]

29. Bush is an idiot. nt

[genieroze]

32. But let the Mexicans waltz across the border to do the jobs Americans

won't do.


We’re Just Doing the Jobs You Gringos Won’t Do (Ha! Ha!)

by Esteban Casaverde

Man, this was one great party. My friends and I ran around the 110 Freeway waving Mexican flags and yelling, "Mexico, Mexico, Mexico." Lupe almost got run over by one of those rickety trucks with a Baja California license plate, but she’s OK. Most important, the TV cameras were there and those gringos in the U.S. Senate heard our message: "Stop picking on those of us who do jobs no one else will do!"

We just want to be Americans ... which is what the Anglo media keep repeating. They keep finding the few people in the crowd with American flags and zeroing in on that, ignoring that almost everyone else has a proud Mexican flag. We don’t want to be stinking Americans, with our kids talking like valley girls and eating hamburgers. We want America to become like Mexico, which is why those amigos in Whittier and Montebello hoisted the Mexican flag on the flagpole and turned the American flag upside down.

We all know that line, about doing jobs no Americans will do, is a lie.

I’m just a humble worker, but I do suspect that many Americans would paint houses, lay tile, trim palm trees and so on, although they won’t do the jobs at the wage at which I’ll do them. As long as people keep repeating that, how you say, mantra, we will be viewed as heroes rather than freeloaders. My only problem: I’ve been here a few years and make decent-enough pay, but those amigos who keep coming across the border keep undercutting my wages.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/greenhut/greenhut40.html

[Marie26]

34. Sensenbrenner thanks you for the support

The angrier Americans get at "those Mexicans," the more willing they are to give up their privacy rights in the name of ethnic purity & security. That article you've posted is, of course, not by an actual Mexican immigrant, but a blue-eyed, blond-haired conservative named Steven Greenhut, who writes for the right-wing Orange County Register. I just love that this is an issue that will inspire DU'ers to post articles that you'd normally see at Free Republic, and it shows just how successful the Admin.'s strategy really is. People are so blinded w/nationalism & hate that they'll accept almost any bill in the name of "protecting Americans." Reminds me of the Patriot Act, or the Enabling Act. Excuse me, I'm going to go get drunk.

[genieroze]

35. I don't blindly follow the democratic mantra. * is pro let all the

illegals in just as long a big business can exploit them. Not all of the illegals are Mexican but let's concentrate on harassing Canadians because they are taking the jobs Merikans don't want. :sarcasm: Get a clue, Americans want the jobs illegal aliens are taking just not for slave wages with no benefits. * is allowing guest workers from India to come in and steal all of the computer jobs. We are outsourcing and insourcing and allowing illegals to take what's ever left. Fuel prices is causing inflation and illegals and guest workers are suppressing wages. We are becoming a third world country and that seems to be the real neocon agenda. Rethugnicans are spouting demagoguery to deflect from their real agenda, they could really give a rats butt if Americans loose jobs and they really don't care if illegals take all of our jobs either.

http://www.wehirealiens.com/

[Bridget Burke]

40. There are definite pro-Labor arguments against undocumented workers...

So why do you keep picking Right Wing Nutcases to make your points?

[superconnected]

38. I feel likes it will turn into a way to keep us in

Other than that all I can think of is follow the money. Monkeyman doesn't do anything without a profit motive.

[Massachusetts]

41. John is turning over in his grave! He isn't the only one either!

"Fear is the foundation of most governments; but it is so sordid and brutal a passion, and renders men in whose breasts it predominates so stupid and miserable, that Americans will not be likely to approve of any political institution which is founded on it."
-John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

[FlaGranny]

42. I wonder how all the Canadian

property owners in Florida are going to like the idea. About 10% of my snowbird neighbors are Canadians paying Florida property taxes on their winter homes.

[tsuki]

44. What are they going to do about dual citizens? And the Native

Americans?

[laundry_queen]

46. Good question.

I have a bunch of relatives who are dual citizens and still live right on the border (Cdn side) and grocery shop on the US side. I know they won't be happy if they need an $85 card.

[Vinca]

47. It didn't mention whether the Mexicans will need passports.

Are we treating the Canadians like criminals and opening the door for the Mexicans?

[bee]

54. Yeah. they dont work cheap. who needs em. eh bush?

This will kill our tourism here in NH. First the old man, now this. great.