Clark's Ad Emphasizes Military Years

[Khephra]

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Democratic presidential hopeful Wesley Clark uses his first campaign commercial to showcase his military service and press his case that he is the most qualified candidate to ``clean up the mess in Iraq.''

The retired Army general and political newcomer will become the sixth Democratic candidate to hit the airwaves when his 60-second television ad begins running Tuesday in New Hampshire.

The ad, titled ``Liberate,'' is almost a combat resume. It uses black-and-white photographs of U.S. soldiers in combat and Clark in fatigues to highlight his leadership in Vietnam, when he took three bullets and won the Silver Star, and in Kosovo, when he lead NATO as the supreme allied commander.

``Now, when we need a leader to clean up the mess in Iraq, he's the one who has done it,'' an announcer says.

more...........

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Clark-Ads.html

[Dr Fate]

1. Good- DEMS need to start playing up their strengths...

...sometimes they seem a little TOO humble-

In politics the rule is "it aint bragging if it's true!!!"

Bush/media is certainly going to hone in on & exagerate DEM weaknesses, so it only makes sense that we play up our strong-points to the max...

[BJ]

2. Desparation from the Clark camp?

You know it's nice the General Clark has military experience but in the United States the civilian authority takes precedence.

After initial stratospheric rating in the polls the good General's starting to drop.

Still, he's excellent Veep material.

[Dr Fate]

3. It's "desperate" to play on your strong-points? I call it "strategy"

And we need more of it, not less.

[BJ]

7. Sorry but Clark's military career doesn't impress me.

And he's fading in the polls. He's not shown well in the so-called debates. And he's skipping a debate in New Hampshire next month to attend a fund-raiser in New York. Don't mind him picking up some duckets from the corporate fat-cats, that's the name of the game, but ducking and dodging events that puts him before the voters isn't a strength.

Sorry.

[shanti]

10. right

not only does his military experience not impress me, it's a negative to me. that's how i feel.

[aquart]

27. Me, too. BUT...

For a second there, I thought "hmmmm...."

Bush HAS made a horrific mess.

Would he like to be sec'y of defense?

[Eloriel]

28. It's a horrific mess, but there's nothing to indicate Clark's the guy

to clean it up. Seems to me he's got a track record of making messes:

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?031117fa_fact

I'll save Clarkies the trouble of also posting this rebuttal of that article, which seems quite weak to me by comparison:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2091194

You can make up your own mind.

(And btw, this isn't all the negative on Clark. Here, for example, are his very own words glorifying the Iraq war, just after our "victory." http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0917-14.htm There's much more out there. )

Eloriel

[BeHereNow]

32. NOT TO MENTION...

His ties to Anthony Huang, Frank Carlucci,
and the Nortel/Entrust (sounds like Enron)
allegiance...for me, that is the REAL issue.
I mean, after all, we do all agree that the
perpetual war mongering is to benefit
the multi-nationals, RIGHT?
Well what the hell is a four star general
deeply entrenced in the multi-national
corporate board rooms (who benefit from
the war mongering) trying to pull here?
Are we REALLY that stupid?
Given the blind faith in this guy from many dems,
despite his OUTRAGEOUS corporate ties...
I am afraid so.
BHN

[SahaleArm]

50. Never met a Deanie who could discern the truth.

Boyer Plate: http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2003/11/yglesias-m-11-14.html

Unlike the unsubstantiated hit-piece in the New Yorker, this one has endnotes: http://www.isreview.org/issues/32/dean.shtml

[FrenchieCat]

56. Yes, that Prospect article did "out" that

New Yorker's journalist that wrote the piece:
http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2003/11/yglesias-m-11-14.html

Boyer Plate
Who is New Yorker staff writer Peter Boyer -- and why he is after Wesley Clark?

By Matthew Yglesias
Web Exclusive: 11.14.03
Print Friendly | Email Article

This week's New Yorker contains a profile of Wesley Clark with a striking thesis -- that the general's "military career, the justification for his candidacy, may also be a liability." Author Peter Boyer argues initially that Clark's plans for a military campaign against Slobodan Milosevic during the 1999 Kosovo conflict were too aggressive; then Boyer argues that the target list of sites to be bombed by NATO jets was not ambitious enough; then he faults Clark for pushing too hard to draw up plans for a ground war against Milosevic. Clark critics, such as former Defense Secretary Bill Cohen and former generals Tommy Franks and Hugh Shelton, get plenty of space in the piece. Meanwhile, those members of Clinton's national-security team who supported Clark's conduct of the war, such as Madeline Albright and Richard Holbrooke, are not heard from at all.

YOUR FAILED TO MENTION THAT ELIZABETH DREW ALSO CLEARED IT UP....
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/16795

[SahaleArm]

57. Beat you to it.

B-)

[Skwmom]

60. You've forgotten to mention the article which totally

discredits the author. But I'm not surprised.

[Kahuna]

15. "Corporate" fat cats? Proof?

nt

[Eloriel]

29. He expects to raise $1.5 million at that event

Do you really think it's an event for average Joes and Janes? I don't.

Eloriel

[SahaleArm]

51. About as average as Dean's last Seattle visit.

$1000/plate lunch run by an anti-gun activist, I wonder what Dean told her.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/connelly/146271_joel31.html

[BeHereNow]

35. Uh...Duh...

Anthony Huang?
Frank Carlucci?
ENTRUST?
NORTEL?
How much more information do you need?
BHN

[eileen_d]

40. Uh... proof that Clark is "deeply entrenched" with these?

Or am I just supposed to fear the word "NORTEL"?

[BeHereNow]

43. If you do not fear Nortel

then you are not paying attention.
Or you are extremely suffering from the
collective brainwashed neurosis that has
inflicted both the left and right.
If you do not fear the Clark connection to Nortel,
Anthony Huang, Entrust and Frank Carlucci
then you deserve the government you are about to get.
Froth on, rabid left.
Pay no attention to the fact that you are
the mirror image of the rabid right.
It will be the undouing of us all-
the rigid belief system and inability to research
the facts for yourself.
Something tells me, you have NO idea what I am referring to
when I refer to WHO Entrust, Rexton, and Frand Carlucci are
and how it affects YOU.
So be it.
As I said, the American people, that means left and right
are going to get the government they deserve.
What ever you do, do not lose your uninformed ideology.
The corporate powers are counting on it!
Best Regards-
BHN

On edit: Oh hell, what's the point of correcting typos...
what's the point of anything in this mass delusion.
They have won, we are screwed.

[eileen_d]

45. Sorry you feel that way.

Is there a candidate so free of ties to evil that you find it possible to support them?

Oh, and BTW... still no proof that Clark is "guilty" of anything besides having a career in the military and having business associations. If that in itself disqualifies him as a candidate for you, I suggest you don't vote for him.

[BeHereNow]

48. As a matter of fact- no.

I do not see a candidate on the horizon.
Nada-zippo-none.
What I do see is one coin, two faces, and people
actually buying the fact that there is another option.
There is not.
Period.
WC is one of them- he is a liar and an opportunist.
He is cashing in big time on the stock market
with Poppy Bush's buddies.
What else do I need to know as far as where his
true allegiance lies?
He will do and say whatever serves the Empire,
and unfortunately, a whole lot of people will buy it
without ever looking at WHO he runs with in the corporate world.
Like you.
go for it-
like I said, the Amercian people, left and right, are going
to get the government they deserve.
So be it.
BHN

[KittyWampus]

21. Fading In The Polls?

Proof? Many polls I've seen has him ahead, tied or 2nd to Dean.

Didn't show well in the debates? Want to back up your opinon?
I heard Kristol say Dean won the debate even though he walked right into Kerry's fist... As Kerry clearly knocked Dean to the canvas when he said 'We're electing a President not a staff". So who wins a debate is largely a matter of opinion.

Fundraiser for "corporate fat-cats"? Proof? Wealthy people aren't always "corporate fat-cats".

Ducking & dodging events? Proof? You just said he's going to a previously scheduled fundraiser. That isn't ducking OR dodging. He's been in every other debate since he entered the race. You realise that Dean, Lieberman and Gephardt have all missed debates or forums, right?

By the way, what Clark is going to is a previously scheduled fundraiser for 1.5 million and since he entered late and is going fo rthe matching funds... the money is clearly worth more than the 5 minutes he'd get during the debate. There will be more debates.

[Dr Fate]

24. But is does impress most voters...

...voters who are growing more concerned with defense issues, and our role in Iraq.

I think Clark or any of our DEMS could handle these issues better than Bush...His military resume certainly will not hurt him at all...

[mobuto]

8. The President of the United States is Commander in Chief

It is both a military and a civilian position.

But I think Clark's record over the last ten years, most especially in his capacity as SACEUR, shows a remarkable knowledge of civilian authority. He is a man of both worlds. There is no job that can prepare someone for being President of the United States, but I think Clark has already demonstrated skills which, if allowed to mature in a position of authority, would lead to the greatest Presidency in sixty years.

[Skwmom]

61. The Dean supporters are having a hissy

because Dean knows when the focus turns to foreign affairs, Dean's goose is cooked. In a time of war (and with our relationships with allies at an all time low), Americans will not want to elect someone with zero foreign policy experience and someone who is a draft dodger. In addition, considering he ran a state that is smaller than many American cities, his domestic experience doesn't look that great either.

[Kahuna]

14. Says you. How dies and left you boss.

nt

[Pastiche423]

4. Yep

That's just what our country needs now, after two f'd up wars.

MORE MILITARY LEADERS!

:puke:

USA! USA! USA!

[mobuto]

9. Why not?

The current President has shown contempt for the lives of our brave men and women in uniform. Because Bush isn't one of them - he's clearly more comfortable cozying up with defense contractors and PNAC chicken hawks than he is with the guys who do the fightin' and the dyin'. Clark is different. You have to know war to hate war, and General Clark knows war.

[Pastiche423]

16. I am not like you, mobuto

I prefer peace and diplomacy, neither of which are clark's strong suit.

[Shakespeare]

18. Dayton accords?

It's certainly your prerogative to be unimpressed with his military experience, but it's flatly untrue to suggest that he has no diplomatic experience.

[mobuto]

20. What makes you say that?

Clark was a major figure in the Dayton accords, and in the Kosovo war, he was able to craft concensus in NATO, which was amazing.

In NATO, even one dissenting vote - Luxembourg for instance - can veto any collective action. That spectre had precluded all previous considerations of NATO intervention. Clark smoothed over each parties' differences, showing remarkable diplomatic skills. And he won the war.

Tens, naybe hundreds of thousands of Kosovars owe their lives to General Clark's diplomatic skills.

[Pastiche423]

23. I disagree w/your assessment

of clark's role in Kosovo.

I tend to think of the innocent lives he took. Taking lives to "save" them has never made sense to me.

Furthermore, I can not fathom what "we" won.

[mobuto]

26. Taking lives to "save" them never made sense to you

It doesn't make sense to a whole lot of people.

As a result, we didn't intervene in Rwanda. We only intervened in Bosnia after tens of thousands had been killed. The pattern repeats itself over and over again.

For once, we saw genocide beginning and we resolved to stop it before it happened. For once, we did the right thing.

And yet even in retrospect, it still doesn't make sense to some. I don't understand.

[Pastiche423]

33. The "genocide"

has never been proven. It was just more of the same warmongering propaganda. Once again, we failed to do what was right.

No mass graves were ever found. But new graves had to be dug for the innocent men, women and children that clark killed.

But you like that kind of man, don't you, mobuto? The military medaled machismo. Mr. Testosterone himself. Wesley "Already the scent of victory is in the air" Clark.

I protested that war, just like I protested the Iraq invasion. Just like you din't.

[mobuto]

37. There was no genocide in Kosovo

That's the point. We intervened just as it was starting (and 1.5 million displaced Kosovars would disagree with you if you say it wasn't starting) and as a result it didn't take place. Only thousands died, not tens or hundreds of thousands.

I protested that war, just like I protested the Iraq invasion. Just like you din't.

I'm not normally one for mass rallies - I don't think they're particularly effective except in rare cases. Nevertheless I did attend two anti-Iraq War protests in DC. And remember that General Clark opposed the Iraq War as well.

[Pastiche423]

39. Sooo...

clark killed the innocent men, women and children so that they would not be genocided?

I've gotta tell ya, I am shocked that you attended not one but two rallies. You aren't pulling my leg, are you? For real? You really went to a protest?

clark anti-war? I guess it depends upon which day he's asked. He has stated publically that he was both for it and agin it.

I believe he was against it, only because it wasn't allowed a say in it and because it wasn't fought his way.

[SahaleArm]

53. Pacifism works when the other guy needs you.

See British India; Rwanda wasn't like that, more of an ethnic battle.

[mobuto]

55. Let's assume a hypothetical reality

That in 1994 President Clinton had decided to intervene in Rwanda.

Inevitably American troops would have killed civilians - these things have happened in every military engagement the memory of man knoweth not to the contrary.

Now knowing then what you know now, would you have attacked him and the generals who served under him with this bullshit:

"clark killed the innocent men, women and children so that they would not be genocided?"

The purpose of the Kosovo War was to prevent genocide. That it did. Did bombs fall astray? Most definitely and trafically. But genocide was prevented. We're talking about a difference in civilian casualties of many orders of magnitude. I have a feeling that if the US Army Air Force had bombed Auschwitz in the winter of 1944 or 1945, you would have been among those who criticized the United States for killing Jews.


As for my protestations, I really don't think they're relevent to this discussion. You simply claimed that I had not protested the war, and that's not correct. You can go on being coy and facetious, but I'd rather you remain intellectually honest.

clark anti-war? I guess it depends upon which day he's asked.

No, I think Clark's been consistent in his opposition to the war. He supported getting rid of Saddam, which is something I think we all supported. He also supports our troops and our commanders on the ground. But he vehemently opposes and has always opposed the ruinous way in which Mr. Bush has effected his "regime change," and also the amateurish way in which he has gone about establishing any semblence of order.

I believe he was against it, only because it wasn't allowed a say in it and because it wasn't fought his way.

Well, you're free to believe whatever you want. But you should also be free to know that your beliefs are not substantiated by fact.

[ajacobson]

31. 1.3 million Kosovars disagree

with you. I talked to an Albanian-American today who told me what Wesley Clark means to him. His gratitude for Clark's leadership brought tears to my eyes.

But then again, those are furriners so that doesn't matter, huh?

[sujan]

62. where did you get that consensus?

did you ask the serbs too?

[sujan]

34. didn't you support this illegal invasion?

[Kahuna]

17. More "military" leaders? How are the military leaders...

responsible for the mess? Quite to the contrary, the military leaders tried to caution against the Iraq war. It was the cluesless civilian toy soldiers who executed a plan that was over their heads. If they had left it to the military leaders things wouldn't be in the mess they are now.

[JohnKleeb]

52. I dont care if the guy is a vet or not but thats not the point

We need a vision, and I personally think my candiate has a great vision to lead us in to better times.

[PsychoDad]

64. Consider...

We currently have no "military leaders" making war policy in this administration. There's AWOL and a bunch of draft evading chickenhawks... That's who's running these wars, and sending our children to die for their profits... Precious little military there and NO leadership.

[Nay]

5. And why shouldn't he?

Empty Flight Suit* is playing his military connections up, and he's an AWOL jackoff.

Besides, the Dems always poll as bad of=n defense, so maybe the only way to convince the general population is to elect a Dem general. Maybe that will be enough to erase the "stigma." But then again, maybe not. I'm sure that, according the the RW pundits, a Dem general is a freak, a fluke, a contradiction in terms, and they'll go after him anyway.

[DemExpat]

6. Hopefully good strategy.....

If Bunnypants can prance around on a carrier to win support, Clark's impressive record and stature should be very appealing to many Americans!

:kick:

DemEx

[VolcanoJen]

11. Is the ad available to view online somewhere?

I sure do miss DigitalClark.com.

:-(

[JNelson6563]

12. all dems should play to their strengths

considering all the scared-silly 'Merkins there are this is smart of Clark.

Julie

[Kahuna]

13. With the barrage of attacks that are happening in Iraq...

right now, it gives voters something to think about. I just hope the ad isn't lame. :eyes:

[Donna Zen]

19. The Columbia School of Journalism

gave it a thumbs up as a bio ad. Bio's as we all know are usually the first up. The campaign has decided on a full minute ad which equally focuses on Clark's diplomatic experience negotiating the Dayton Peace Accords and other international experience.

I hope the clark04 puts up a link as they did for RTV.

[VolcanoJen]

25. Well, his ad at the "Rock the Vote" Forum was the best!!!

If that gives you any comfort, Kahuna. :-)

I'm sure this ad will be excellent!

[Racenut20]

22. This is a soldiers general folks

You are looking at the silver star and purple hearts. not the 6 months rotating desk jockies that passed through vietnam to get it on their resume for making general.

[Donna Zen]

30. Right

A guy you can have a beer with, move to the leadership factor. Expect a plug of winning a war without one US loss, plays well with others, and Milosevic's in jail!

I wonder if the image will include Gert?

[BeHereNow]

36. Clark's investment buddy

Anthony Huang:
http://www.rextonets.com/customers.htm
Oh my, is that Halliburton, Bechtel and Exxon I see on
the client list? Oh, say it isn't so!
Anthony Huang, who is a major investor with Wesley Clark,
the democratic messiah, in ENTRUST? (formerly Acxiom)
You know the folks who gather data on every breathing
citizen?
Entrust...sounds like Enron, that has just partnered with
Frank Carlucci's old friend Nortel?
Oh my, what can it all mean?
Nortel? Entrust? Rexton Media?
You mean the folks developing the space weapons?
Oh my, oh my!
Someone should tell Mr. Clark about the BAD things
his investment partners are doing!!!
He obviously does not know!

WAKE THE FUCK UP PEOPLE!
BHN

[BeHereNow]

38. WHY do the CLARKIES go silent

when I bring up the Huang / Carlucci / Clark connection?
Someone, please explain.
BHN

[eileen_d]

41. Because it's guilt-by-google-association?

He served in the military. He worked as a business consultant. Just because a name appears on the same page as his doesn't mean he is actively conspiring with that name to subvert democracy.

[BeHereNow]

44. And you my dear,

to put this as kindly as possible,
do not understand what is happening.
Peace-
BHN

[eileen_d]

46. Well, I'd ask you to "enlighten" me

But I am rarely enlightened by people who address me as "dear."

[BeHereNow]

47. And that response is typical

of the American ego.
which is exactly why they win.
You can't be enlightened, because you think
you know.
You don't.
You have NO idea about what you are looking at.
And you probably don't have the first clue
as to how to research what I am talking about,
other than googling...
And you will run off the cliff with the the rest of
the lemmings, left and right, repubs and dems.
They have won.
We are screwed.
Sorry if I offended you.
Americans are so easliy offended when confronted
with any facts that shake their ideology tree.
I will try to stay out of your orchard from now on.
BHN

[IranianDemocrat]

49. Again no enlightment.

Just bullshit personal attacks and sweeping generalizations.

[mobuto]

58. No one condescends more

than a conspiracy theorist whose proposed conspiracy is larger than his or her command of fact or reason.

[SahaleArm]

59. Leftovers from the Fidelity Ralph Era

:evilgrin:

[eileen_d]

42. Makes perfect sense to me

What do folks expect him to do... emphasize his years of service as governor of Vermont? ;)

[SahaleArm]

54. That's been covered.

http://www.isreview.org/issues/32/dean.shtml

[farmboxer]

63. Clark's Military Record Is Better Than Bush's AWOL, Deserter

record any day!

[PsychoDad]

65. LOL

It would be hard for any Dem canidate to not be able to beat AWOL's record anyday :silly:

First let me state, I have not decided on a canidate yet.

But bush's policies of controling the masses through constant terror and fear and questioning their loyality to god and country if they should dissent, has created a perfect climate for a warrior knight to ride into. (Like much of the shrubs plans, he has failed, as he wanted the perception that he was that warrior knight sent from on high to save the world.)

Clark fits that image perfectly. A proven statesman, warrior, and leader, with a kind and fatherly visage. Clark also comes off as a "straight shooter", a man who speaks his mind and answers questions with a Yes, or no, without a typical poitician's evasiveness. Very "wholesome" when compared to the likes of Bush, Cheney and Rumsfield... Anyway, That's what I think the masses of everyday voters will see .

And that image wouldn't hurt the dems...