Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Dean Must Show Strength, Iowa Governor Says

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
Khephra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 12:54 AM
Original message
Dean Must Show Strength, Iowa Governor Says
Dean Must Show Strength, Iowa Governor Says
Vilsack Contends Candidate May Be Vulnerable to GOP Criticism That He Is Not Tough Enough
By Dan Balz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, November 17, 2003; Page A02


DES MOINES, Nov. 16 -- Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack (D) said former Vermont governor Howard Dean is vulnerable to Republican attacks that he is not tough enough to keep the United States safe in the age of terrorism, despite rising opposition to President Bush's handling of the war to stabilize Iraq.

Vilsack's comments, which came in an interview shortly before an Iowa Democratic Party fundraising dinner Saturday at which Dean and five other presidential candidates spoke, highlighted the unease that exists in some parts of the party over Dean's candidacy and the importance the Iraq war is playing in the campaigns for the Democratic nomination.

The Iowa governor, who has not taken sides in the nomination battle, said if Dean becomes the party's nominee, Republicans could charge that "he wasn't tough enough to pull the trigger" against former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein and will have to show Americans that he has the strength to deal with tyrants and terrorists.

"That's an issue that Howard's going to have to confront," Vilsack said. "He's going to have to overcome that, he's going to have to convince people by force of personality, by his response in debates, by plans he comes out with. I don't know how he's going to do it. He's going to have to reassure Americans that he's just as tough as George Bush, but he's tougher in a smarter way."

more...............

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49845-2003Nov16.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. Well Vilsack is going to be proven wrong.
Hopefully Vilsack will put his foot in his mouth soon once he realizes that Dean will carefully and calmly choose a VP with the expertise of foreign affairs/national defense. That person could be:

Wesley Clark (Arkansas)
John Edwards (North Carolina) (although he's not ready)
Gary Hart (Colorado)
Bob Graham (Florida)

There are still ways to win the electoral votes even with or without the South, although I predict a major sweep if Dean is nominated with a very few exceptions in terms of electoral votes such as Idaho, Georgia (unless Diebold is tossed in the trash), and perhaps Utah, but I doubt it because of the Yucca Mountain problem (Yes, I know it's in Nevada, but the route to Yucca is on Utah)

Hawkeye-X
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Metrix Donating Member (293 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Why don't we just pick a presidential candidate
with expertise in foreign affairs/national defense? This sounds too much like the line on Bush, that he would surround himself with experienced advisors.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Kerry and Clark supporters agree with you 100%
3 cheers for the Iowa Governor- let's confront the ugly truth about Dean now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. I agree with you
And welcome to DU! :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. No George McGovern
By Robert Kagan

Dean has been portrayed, especially by Republicans, as the new George McGovern. But judging by Dean's public statements at least, there is a big difference between the nature of his antiwar critique and the anti-Vietnam critique offered by McGovern and his followers three decades ago.

At the heart of the anti-Vietnam critique was a wholesale rejection of anti-communist containment, the reigning American foreign policy paradigm in those years. Vietnam was not just "the wrong war at the wrong time." It was, McGovernites believed, the logical culmination of two decades of misguided and immoral Cold War strategy. The problem was not just Richard Nixon but the whole foreign policy "establishment," Democrats and Republicans alike, from Dean Acheson through McGeorge Bundy, all of whom who had taken America down the wrong path. And the answer was not just withdrawal from Vietnam but a complete reorientation of American foreign and defense policy. America was on the wrong side of history; its power and influence in the world were a source not of good but of evil. In the McGovernite view, any war was the wrong war. Americans needed to "come home" both to save themselves and all who suffered from their nation's oppressive global influence.

In this respect, at least, Howard Dean is no George McGovern. He opposed the Iraq war, he says, because it was "the wrong war at the wrong time," not because it was emblematic of a fundamentally misguided American foreign policy. Dean has not, in fact, challenged the reigning foreign policy paradigms of the post-9/11 era: the war on terrorism and the nexus between terrorism and rogue states with weapons of mass destruction. "I support the president's war on terrorism," he told Tim Russert this summer. He supported the war in Afghanistan. He even supported Israel's strike against a terrorist camp in Syria because Israel, like the United States, has the "right" to defend itself. (European Deanophiles take note.) Dean does not call for a reduction in American military power but talks about using the "iron fist" of our "superb military." He talks tough about North Korea and at times appears to be criticizing the Bush administration for not addressing that "imminent" threat more seriously. And he especially enjoys lacerating Bush for not taking the fight more effectively to al Qaeda, a bit like John F. Kennedy criticizing Eisenhower in 1960 for not being tough enough on communism.

Of course, all this tough talk could be hot air. Maybe Dean is doing a great job controlling and hiding his inner peacenik. If so, that in itself tells you something about the current state of the foreign policy debate. Even Mr. Speak-My-Mind thinks he has to talk tough. George McGovern didn't.

Another possibility is that Dean's opposition to the Iraq war has been over-interpreted by his supporters on the Democratic left. They think he rejects the overall course of American foreign policy, just as they do. But maybe he doesn't. They think he's one of them, but his views may not be all that different from those of today's Democratic centrist establishment. When Dean criticizes Bush's foreign policy "unilateralism," he sounds like a policy expert at the Council on Foreign Relations, not a radical. "There are two groups of people who support me because of the war," Dean told Mara Liasson a few months ago. "One are the people who always oppose every war, and in the end I think I probably won't get all of those people." The other group, Dean figures, simply "appreciates the fact" that he "stood up early" and spoke his mind and opposed Bush while other Democrats were cowed. Dean may not be offering a stark alternative to Bush's foreign policy, therefore, so much as he is simply offering Democrats a compelling and combative alternative to Bush himself. The Iraq war provided the occasion to prove his mettle.

If so, that has two implications, one small and one big. The small one concerns the general election: The Bushies are planning to run against a dovish McGovern, but there's a remote possibility they could find themselves running against a hawkish Kennedy. The bigger implication, which the rest of the world should note well, is that the general course of American foreign policy is fairly stable and won't be soon toppled -- not even by Howard Dean.

The writer, a senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment, writes a monthly column for The Post.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50126-2003Nov16.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=723850
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
4. He's weak other than
when it comes to money and "we've got the power" a la Tim Robins.

Admit it!

Your guy has real flaws...and everyone sees them, except those that are hypnotized....."we've got the power"...

Yea, Right!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Our guys has real flaws
Everybody sees them...except all the people taking those silly polls.

:silly:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. A Clark supporter calls Dean a WEAK candidate.
Your man has ZERO political experience.

Your man has done NOTHING to distinguish himself as a campaigner or candidate.

Your man lobbied for the indefensible, Big Brother, Total Information Awareness "no fly" list that makes US flights LESS secure at the expense of the privacy of all US citizens.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. we don't have enough
i hate your candidate arguments.:boring:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I like to think of LBN as a haven
from the smear campaigns. I think habitual smearers should try to limit their activities to GD. Don't you? I mean, why lower the standard of all of DU?

As it is, when referring to DU as the place for any political news worth knowing, I always stress Latest Breaking News. I hope it remains worth referring folks to.

Julie
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Stating the truth about Dean's weaknesses on defense is not a smear
I don't care if he was against the war and then probably for it and then maybe with excpetions- Dean will be portrayed as weak on national defense- and statements such as "We won't always have the strongest military" only prove it and the GOP will be all over Dean and then it will be all over for us in '04.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. that can easily be turned around to say...
that Bush now has caused the military to be at its weakest...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. again...
good luck with that spin. The truth is that's not what Dean said, although I now see it trying to be spun that way.
Again, good luck.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. Surely you so not stoop so low as to defend
this when it comes to money and "we've got the power" a la Tim Robins.

Admit it!

Your guy has real flaws...and everyone sees them, except those that are hypnotized....."we've got the power"...

Yea, Right!


as legitimate criticism??

This ain't LBN, it's GD flame-bait for the hungry.

Unless you've lowered your standards that much??

Julie

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Um...I think you mean TONY Robbins...
Tony Robbins is an exceptionally obnoxious "motivational speaker"; Tim Robbins is an actor (although you're maybe referring to Tim Robbins' role in Bob Roberts?)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
9. "Blood for Oil" is not a sound foreign policy program
That's Bush's foreign policy plan and the Vichy Dems -- Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt, and Lieberman -- supported that plan when they voted for the 2002 IWR.

Dean's foreign policy is based upon a moral use of our power, and I'd trust Dean to make better decisions than Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt, and Lieberman on foreign affairs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lulu Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Exactly n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
12. That is absurd!
The trigger that Smirk pulled was a DISASTER as we now see. Dean never said he was a dove, he said he would have gone into Afghanistan. This guy is so wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
15. ummm what does .....
the war in Iraq have to do with fighting against terrorist theats in this country. Dont think the Iowa governor gets it. Think he's been watching FOX news lately!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
17. get tough on dumb rhetoric
if these seasoned politicians wren't so quesy they might try to define "toughness" and "strength" properly not in Nixonian macho terms for the sports crowd.

Ghandi was tough. He laid his life on the line. He led people in harm's way. he won. Not that we would ever elect him president but let's widen the spectrum of "toughness" beyond brain damaged Macbeth's blowing thier horn from the safety of the Oval office but in fact trembling before the drifting of poll numbers.

Who wouldn't pull the trigger on terrorists except nervous nellies frightened by opinion polls? I'd figuratively smack down the abrasive Dem advice givers too for conspiring to legitimize GOP talk.

After all that there is a point to be made, but I think everyone is saying the same thing in different ways about the maverick(Dean) making the case everyone in the wider world can get except our own population leaderless in a fog and unawares.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
18. Yeah, right Vilsack. We want a warmonger.
A nutjob that can unilaterally declare war against anyone anytime with no justification whatsoever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
21. Dean's achilles heel is exposed
and his supporters are nowhere to be seen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-03 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
22. Vilsack has decided to promote the myth
that Iraq had anything to do with nat'l security.

Dean's position is the one of strength. You DON'T engage in policy that strengthens enemies, costs allies and empties treasuries.

Vilsack has decided, for whatever reason, to shore up the false choice.

It fits with some of the recent "be afraid" attacks. Maybe the Dem establishment is going to try to manipulate people's fear too. It won't win votes- it will translate to apathy. Fear paralyzes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC