BBC: Italian group backs Iraq fighters

[GRClarkesq]

Tamsin Smith
BBC reporter in Rome

A group of Italian anti-war militants is raising funds to support the armed Iraqi resistance, the BBC has learned.
The discovery comes as Italy mourns 19 men killed in a suicide attack in Iraq last week.

The "Antiimperialista" organisation's internet campaign asks people to send "10 Euros to the Iraqi resistance".

They say they have collected 12,000 euros ($14,165) in the past eight weeks and admit the money used could be used to buy weapons.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3277029.stm

[jenk]

1. shit, people are willing to support this!

crap, that's $252 a day in Italy!

talk about being isolated in the world...

[everythingsxen]

2. Holy Sh.......

It is pretty scary.

If that sort of thing becomes a recurring pattern... :scared:

We might be seeing "It's official: WW3 has started" in LBN soon...

[MoonRiver]

32. Very frightening. I desperately hope this doesn't mean we're going to be

targeted by the entire world. :scared: * is bad but the rest of this US is basically decent and wants to stop the neocon atrocities. 2004 is looking good for Dems. And then the tide will turn.

[Aidoneus]

33. oh that's right, it's just those "neocons"

That's the problem, and there was no such tendency before them.. hell, the very same tendency at work that led to the occupation in Iraq never meddled in Italian elections either, because there wasn't an "American Enterprise Institute" back then.

[cjbuchanan]

3. That is going to far

I don't agree with the war or occupation, but fundraising to kill your own countrywomen and men is wrong. I know people serving over there and they are not there because they believe Bush's lies, they just wanted to get financial help for college. This is not how we need the anti-war movement to be defined.

[underpants]

5. I completely agree. This is like someone's stupid blog Rush found on DU

This is wrong and anyone who supports it (organizing is beyond the pale) is sick. Supporting death for your own political wants and gains is .........well Bush like.

[MrSoundAndVision]

8. Agreed

Send food you idiots!

[BlackFrancis]

9. *shrug*

French men and women that worked in munition factories used to deliberately sabatoge grenades and ammo destined for the French Army in Vietnam.

You would pull the pin on the grenade and a note would fall out that said "We support the Viet Minh".

It's almost the same thing, I'm sure French soldiers died for lack of bullets and grenades that worked. However, I'm not sure what I would have done had I been working in a munitions plant when we were having our go at the Vietnamese. You take sides in life to one degree or another, and if you believe something is wrong it seems hypocritical to me define what level of opposition is allowed depending on whether it's committed by human beings who happened to be born in the same nation-state that I did.

[argyl]

10. Iagree with you but these are Italians,whose force there is small and may

soon be nonexistent.I want our men and women home safely and can't conceive of a movement such as this catching on in the US.

On a personal note,a lovely young woman I know was mobilized and will soon be in the Mideast,either Kuwait or Iraq.She joined the Reserve for the experience,a little extra cash,and help with college tuition.She won't see the USA for another fourteen months.

[TolstoyAndy]

22. "for another fourteen months" if ever n/t

...

[Aidoneus]

12. W's lackey regimes come up with billions to support the occupation

Iraqis are shot up and harassed by these occupation forces and their mercenaries from all over, yet this is suddenly too far?

[Dhalgren]

13. I agree.

The US is the "bad guy" here. If the US government is going to use its forces and its mercenaries to murder, pillage, and rob other countries simply because it can, then we shouldn't be surprised if others actively oppose us. It isn't "evil" to fight "evil".

[underpants]

16. So you SUPPORT them trying to aid in the death of your fellow Americans?

Or do you support their RIGHT to do it?

I'm assuming here that you are American.

Either way you are wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Dhalgren]

18. If your family member is holding up a liquor store

and the cops come in to arrest him and a shoot-out insues, you may not like the cops, but you can't blame them for their actions. It isn't just the "US government" committing crimes in Iraq, it is the government's weapon of choice - the US soldier. I don't want any of them killed, but do I understand people joining together to stop this crime spree - yes.

[underpants]

20. By that analogy it would be okay for me to kill any cop I see

so they can't kill any of my other family members as they have shown is their wont.

No that is On EDIT _I disagree.

[Dhalgren]

21. No, you miss the point.

The US is the one robbing the liquor store, if someone stands up to stop them, then that is GOOD. I don't want anyone killed. But, you can't send 150,000 heavily armed troops to destroy and rape another country and then exspect the only reaction to be "let's have a sit in and show these guys how miffed we are". This is war - the US has made it clear that we will kill anyone we decide to kill, and no one can stop us! So, I can't criticize someone for taking extreme exception to this stance of the US. We - are - in - the - wrong - and - we - are - killing - people - in - the - process!

[Myra]

34. Shit!

Americans shouldn't even be in the position
where we have to pick sides between two
sets of victims.

Bush is the criminal.
(I know, the people pulling his strings
are the criminals, but he took the oath.)

Bush is the one who created the two sets
of victims, *neither* of whom I want dead.

[Dhalgren]

35. Totally agree!

.

[Dirk39]

25. They just wanted to get financial help for college...

so they did kill ten thousands of Iraqis. Social welfare and student programs the american way?
You leave me speechless, but I'm sure some of my grandpas said something like this in Nürnberg. It's even more disgusting as it would be, if they believe Bushs' lies. If I would went to Iraq and kill americans, 'cause someone would pay me to do this and I would need this money for my college education, would you post here at DU, being concerned that nothing is happening to ME???
Dirk

[Media_Lies_Daily]

4. It's one thing to protest one's involvement in an evil, unnecessary war...

...but quite another to actively solicit funds for the "other side".

I can't imagine what the families and friends of the Italian dead are thinking after hearing this news.

IMHO, I think this group is heading for trouble.

[Sagan]

6. that's not right...

I want our troops HOME. Not killed by ANYONE.

That's the point.

[TolstoyAndy]

23. That's supporting the troops

support their lives.

Bring them home.

That way no more Iraqis, Italians or Americanns need die.

[DUreader]

7. "anti-war militants" - Media is Smearing Anti-war Folks

These 'militants' are obviously pro-war

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

11. I'd understand it if Italy were not a country who sent troops

Then it would be just taking sides. The way it is, it feels wrong.

[rman]

36. not all Italians think alike

much like not all Americans think alike, not all Israelies think alike, etc.
what else is new?

[Dhalgren]

14. If it were the United States that had been invaded

and conguered, we would be happy for some help from anyone willing to help. I think that this is just the beginning of active resistence to US agression around the world. And I can't say that I blame any group for wanting to help stop our illegal, criminal Empire.

[David__77]

15. I think the limit is this...

It is one thing to give money for printing presses, to support workers' strikes or help non-violent political opposition. It's another to say one doesn't care how the money is spent. That's careless and betrays opportunism.

[maggrwaggr]

17. as we supported the "insurgents" in Afghanistan, I'm sure

the insurgents in Iraq are being supported by God Knows Who.

Arab countries, Russia, anyone with a grudge against us could be supplying these folks under the table.

Our boys are screwed, that's the bottom line.

[GRClarkesq]

19. Distinguish not supporting the war and supporting Iraqi resistance

Let us hope no group in the US trys anything similar. A republican campaign strategy would then appear that would paint anyone opposed to the war as a supporter of the iraqi resistance.

[Dirk39]

24. Every american citizen has already agreed to donate...

$568 on average, for the killing, recolonisation, destruction and exploitation of Iraq and the Iraqis and Afghanistan.
$166 billion - the $87 billion Bush wants, plus the $79 billion he's already spent - is $568 for every man, woman and child in the United States. It's $3,269 for every person in Iraq and Afghanistan.


What do you propose the Iraqis to do, to throw them out of THEIR country? Bibles? Hamburgers? MTV?
Bush and co. have already anounced that the prominent "bitter medicin" of the IMF and the Worlbank will be even more bitter in Iraq.
The american soldiers are not little children. If they don't know now, that what they do is simply terrorist and criminal and that they are obliged as human beings to simply desert, to simply refuse to go on with what they are doing, who cares for 1416 Italiens giving 10 Dollars for something that leads to nothing compared to 200 000 000 Americans giving 568$ each.

Hello from Germany,
Dirk

[Paschall]

26. Good points, Dirk

By the way, I found the website of Antiimperialista (in English). Interesting read.

[Dirk39]

27. Hi Paschall...

the website is interesting. I just found a hint on the austria-version, where one prominent austrian women, who did fight against the Nazis, supports to collect money for the resistance in Iraq. Their language in general sounds a lot like maoists from a long forgotten past. Are you sure that this is the group, the BBC article is about? By the way, Forza Italia isn't the most reliable source...
Hope to find out more about what's behind this story.
Dirk

[Dhalgren]

30. You are right, Dirk.

Being Ghandi with america, just gets you killed.

[saoirse]

28. Can you say "CIA front?"

Wake up, folks.

Italy's been one of their favorite stomping
grounds since they were called the OSS and
parachuted mobster "Lucky" Luciano into the
country during WW2.

[Capt_Nemo]

37. Absolutely right

This comes from the same place where the Galloway files were forged.

It's purpose is the same:
to lead people to make the conection Anti-War = Terrorist

It's the "Either you're with us or with the terrorists" thing
repackaged. It is the only argument they got left.

on edit: it is no coincidence that this "revelation" occurs
simultaneously with the release of this poll http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=225220
This is a propaganda offensive to dissuade people from protesting
and thereby saving shrub's photo-op

[durutti]

29. This thread is reminding me of a Phil Ochs song...

I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
Tears ran down my spine
I cried when they shot Mr. Kennedy
As though I'd lost a father of mine
But Malcolm X got what was coming
He got what he asked for this time
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I go to civil rights rallies
And I put down the old D.A.R.
I love Harry and Sidney and Sammy
I hope every coloured boy becomes a star
But don't talk about revolution
That's going a little bit too far
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I cheered when Humphrey was chosen
My faith in the system restored
I'm glad the commies were thrown out
of the AFL-CIO board
I love Puerto Ricans and Negroes
as long as they don't move next door
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

The people of old Mississippi
Should all hang their heads in shame
I can't understand how their minds work
What's the matter don't they watch Les Crain?
But if you ask me to bus my children
I hope the cops take down your name
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I read New Republic and Nation
I've learned to take every view
You know, I've memorized Lerner and Golden
I feel like I'm almost a Jew
But when it comes to times like Korea
There's no one more red, white and blue
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I vote for the Democratic Party.
They want the U.N. to be strong
I go to all the Pete Seeger concerts
He sure gets me singing those songs
I'll send all the money you ask for
But don't ask me to come on along
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

Once I was young and impulsive
I wore every conceivable pin
Even went to the socialist meetings
Learned all the old union hymns
But I've grown older and wiser
And that's why I'm turning you in
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

[Rose Siding]

31. Won't the US demand that Italy arrest them?

Won't the US charge that they are supporting "terrorism"?

[Oberst Klink]

38. I am heartened that fellow DUer's generally don't support this

I have seen too many people here hope for US defeat and death by a sizeable minority on this board.

During war, "Loyal Opposition" is an honorable title. The label of just plain "Opposition" is not.

[TheLastMohican]

39. It is a double-standard approach

Now think back to 80's and support of Afghanistan's mojahedeen. USA supported it big time (some 500 million dollars in weapons and supplies) to kill russian soldiers in Afghanistan. Now what the soviets did was wrong beyond doubt, but neither Iraq adventure looks like a good deed, too.
You just have to deal with the fact that there are people (usually private help) who are willing to donate money for whatever purposes they see fit. And that goes for Italians too, who despite sending and loosing soldiers in Iraq have a very strong anti-war mood about this war.