Britain's top lawyer demands closure of Guantanamo Bay

[Judi Lynn]

Times Online May 10, 2006
Britain's top lawyer demands closure of Guantanamo Bay
By Lee Glendinning

The Attorney General this evening launched Britain's most outspoken attack yet of the Guantanamo Bay detention centre, demanding the closure of what he described as an international symbol of injustice.

At a keynote speech in Whitehall, London, Lord Goldsmith QC said that the US policy of detaining terrorism suspects without trial at the prison camp in Cuba was 'unacceptable'.

"It is time, in my view, that is should close," he said.

"Not only would it, in my personal opinion, be right to close Guantanamo as a matter of principle, I believe it would also help to remove what has become a symbol to many - right or wrong - of injustice.
(snip/...)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2174520,00.html

[peacetalksforall]

1. To all the people who are calling for the closing of Guantanamo?

Why are you so hypocritically selective?

[DrDebug]

2. What do you mean?

I think that Guantanamo is the clearest example of injustice. There are more, however the prisoners at Guantanamo have been detained illegally for so long now that it is one of the most important problems to be solved.

Please explain why you think it is hypocritical.

[One Honest Guy]

3. Did you read the article?

" I believe it would also help to remove what has become a symbol to many - right or wrong - of injustice.

A symbol? I guess. What about those secret prisons in eastern Europe? Oh wait, they are not symbols. Well gee...

[otherlander]

4. I guess it's hard to shut something down if you don't know where it is

and it could easilly be hidden by the government. So they're only going after the obvious one. *sigh* oh, well. I guess it's a start...

[Robbien]

5. As bad as Gitmo is, it is probably much better to be there than

in one of the secret prisons.

And if the Gitmo symbol goes away, the secret prisons are hidden even further from the public eye.

[otherlander]

6. So you're saying that the British attorney

isn't trying to change anything, just make it less visible?

Damn....

[Robbien]

7. Yup. The secret prisons are nothing new

but because of Gitmo we became aware of them.

[bennywhale]

9. Lord Goldsmith has been voicing this in private

for a long time. I'm a British DUer and its been a story that he fundamentally disagreed with it. Goldsmith is a man of law and due process, no matter what might be said of him and he's not Tony's lacky (as can be seen from this) this is a genuine conviction that it should close

[bennywhale]

8. I disagree. I thing that if Guantanamo closes, all eyes

and political energy will indeed be on the secret prisons and extraoadinary rendition. Guantanamo is a huge blot on the landscape, without it we would focus on something else.

[Robbien]

10. A EU committee is here in the US right now asking about the

secret prisons and no one will talk to them about it. The UN was asking about them on Monday and we said no such thing.

There isn't any more pressure than that. Once these two investigations are over, the story goes away.

[bennywhale]

13. No, once Guantanamo closes the focus intensifies on them

This story has been bubbling away in Europe for some time. The fact that the Americans deny them is one thing. The fact the countries they are alledgedly in are in negotiations for EU membership is another. The pressure will come from Europe within Europe.

Amnesty international 'Liberty' and many other Human Rights Groups plus MEP's (Members of EU parliament) of various countries have got a momentum on this issue, as well as the extraordinary rendition issue. The fact is these things are happening in and through Europe. Did you know a Milan judge has put out an arrest warrant for 12 CIA agents for abducting someone in a Milan street>?

This is bigger news over here, and if Guantanomo would stop being a distraction then more energy would be put into it.

Its also a localised issue in many ways. There are groups around Europe watching airports and taking plane numbers. from this they've discerned how many unscheduled CIA planes have flown through particular airports. For example at Shannon airport in Ireland, the group there have the support of the local mayor (or council) to stop these flights. Some groups are trying to obtain local arrest warrants.

I understand your pessimism, but try to be positive in this. There are a lot of good people working very hard to expose this. In fact it is exposed, they are working to end it.

[One Honest Guy]

14. "The pressure will come from Europe within Europe."

No it won't. Europeans are very eurocentric and in many cases depending on the nation, ultra nationalistic as well. Rabidly ultra-nationalistic in fact. Remember, these are the people who fought two very violent World Wars against each other. Most Europeans really don't care about these secret prisons, the rest are divided into two groups: a majority that supports their existence, and a minority that does not. Like I said though, most of em don't care, which tells you quite a bit about current condition of European society and culture.

"Amnesty international 'Liberty' and many other Human Rights Groups..."

Useless.

"There are groups around Europe watching airports and taking plane numbers."

Pointless waste of time. It will accomplish nothing. Bunch of euro-yuppies, hippie-rejects, and law school dropouts camping outside few airports for the sake of their egos will acomplish nothing.

[bennywhale]

15. Ok, first off, i am european. I'm a British DUer who has been

following this story for a long time. 'Europeans are very Eurocentric'. Complete and total crap. Europe is the most global looking continent on earth. America is nationalistic and inward lookiong yes, Europeans are the opposite, we are generally internationalists. For crying out loud what do you think the EU is? Does it smack of ultra-nationalism to create a continent wide political union unseen in history between dozens of countris?

'Most Europeans don't really care about these secret prisons' Good sweeping statement again not true. I have no statistics as to how many do or don't care, if such a surbey has ever been done, what i do know is that it is big news. The EU is conducting an investigation, led by some very concerned members of parliament, and the story has been big in the Newspapers.

"Like I said though, most of em don't care, which tells you quite a bit about current condition of European society and culture."

What do you mean by this, or is it just wilful misinformed offence that you wish to cause? Is this judge=ment in comparison with American society, culture and civilisation?

"Amnesty international 'Liberty' and many other Human Rights Groups..."
Useless."

How optimistic of you. I think you should maybe reasess why you are concerned about politics, you sound like you've given up. Liberty and Amnesty International are British based groups that do absolutely vital work. in fact it was Liberty that brought the extraordinary rendition flights to public attention, which was followed up by a chanel four documentary that investigated the cover company the planes are registered to. So you wouldn't have even known about them if it wasn't for them. and amnesty are the group that investigated reports of secret prisons somewhere in Eastern Europe or the caucasus. Again you would be ignorant of this if it wasn't for that group.

There are groups around Europe watching airports and taking plane numbers."
Pointless waste of time. It will accomplish nothing. Bunch of euro-yuppies, hippie-rejects, and law school dropouts camping outside few airports for the sake of their egos will acomplish nothing."

Untrue. They are people concerned about human rights and many are local people many are activists with convictions. This actually led to information for front page news in British Newspapers with stats and maps of what had been happening in UK airports and Q's in Parliament.

This is a long process that will be won. You need to concentrate your energies on trying to affect change rather than complaining that everything is a waste of time. Follow the example of all those euro yuppies and hippies and try doing something positive.

[One Honest Guy]

16. I know all too well what is Europe.

Europeans are very euro-centric, especially when dealing with non-Europeans. Its a sort of faux EU patriotism and universal faux nationalism of a sort. British are an excellent example. I should know. These are the people who detest the concept of European Union, as demonstrated by the anti-EU fervor of their elected officials of almost every ideological stripe. Aside from small internationalist pockets, British are against EU for one reason or another. Liberals see it as an Evil Empire gobbling up and privatizing everything in sight, a child of globalization, and monarchist Conservatives see it as the final death kneel of their Empire, a tool of the frenzied masses that will erode old traditions and lead to destruction of their way. (Hah! It already happened assholes. You lost Hong Kong, and one can hope, Scotland is next!)

But when it comes to foreigners, Americans in particular, British are all pro-EU all of a sudden, especially liberal ones. Because while they privately (sometimes no so privately) detest the EU, they understand that its probably the only counterbalance to American hegemony, which in reality they see as a threat to own dreams of hegemony, whether they be Conservative fascist fantasies or Liberal utopian wet dreams.

You said: "What do you mean by this, or is it just willful misinformed offence that you wish to cause? Is this judge=ment in comparison with American society, culture and civilization?"

I know all too well what is Europe. No, I am not comparing, I'm just pointing out. America is just as decrepit, in its own mickey mouse way.

You said: "So you wouldn't have even known about them if it wasn't for them" and "Again you would be ignorant of this if it wasn't for that group.

I suspected about such places before speculations in the media begun, I suspected of such places well before the invasion of Iraq begun. I need don't some organization to tell me, I have a healthy common sense. By the way, the only reason these organizations were allowed to report this is because the next day they would be back on reporting human right abuses in China, or oppression and erosion of rights of white minorities in Zimbabwe. What I am trying to say, if these organizations were to report on domestic human rights abuses ONLY, they would cease to exist overnight. They are allowed to report dastardly deeds of the American government and its associates (British for example) every now and then, as long as they do their work fully and in a proper and directed way (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) and report on dastardly deed committed by the non-friendly regimes. Information leakage on secret prisons was just collateral damage these governments were willing to suffer willingly.

[One Honest Guy]

11. Here is one of em.

Camp Bondsteel, Kosovo.

[InkAddict]

12. Perhaps they've asked for Mother Nature's help

to close it down and are awaiting an answer to their prayers - hurricane season begins again soon, no? Perhaps they've also got some new and improved steering techniques since Katrina? :tinfoilhat: The thinking would probably go something like, "Ah well, it's a real shame we didn't have the time to get our ducks in a row, but our detainees really were scheduled for hearings/trials and we're just devasterated that we won't be able to do the righteous thing because nature intervened at this political super fortified waystation of "last resort." Let's have a moment of silence for those who we couldn't get to a place of safety, shelter from the storm. You're doing a heckofajob, Rummy :sarcasm: No offense, NOLA, it's just that......well....