(ABC)Phone-Records Surveillance Is Broadly Acceptable to Public

[rodeodance]

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=1953464

Phone-Records Surveillance Is Broadly Acceptable to Public

By GARY LANGER and DALIA SUSSMAN

May 12, 2006 — Americans by nearly a 2-1 ratio call the surveillance of telephone records an acceptable way for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, expressing broad unconcern even if their own calling patterns are scrutinized.

Lending support to the administration's defense of its anti-terrorism intelligence efforts, 63 percent in this ABC News/Washington Post poll say the secret program, disclosed Thursday by USA Today, is justified, while far fewer, 35 percent, call it unjustified.

Sampling, data collection and tabulation for this poll were done by TNS.

Indeed, 51 percent approve of the way President Bush is handling the protection of privacy rights, while 47 percent disapprove — hardly a robust rating, but one that's far better than his overall job approval, in the low 30s in recent polls.

NSA Phone Records Program
Yes No
Is collecting phone
records acceptable? 63% 35%
Would it bother you if there
was a record of your phone calls? 34 66

.....

[ixion]

1. BS

No way. I don't buy it for a second.

[bennywhale]

20. It will be true. Ordinary citizens without the political

inclinations to become passionate about these issues like on DU will only hear the arguments as they are presented. Bushco's propaganda machine will be getting the message across a lot better than us and those concerned with liberties.

If you use the politics of fear and have a sophisticated propaganda machine there is no end to what you can do. Look at Germany 1930's

[ixion]

26. but the numbers don't match

whenever you have a mismatch (29% approval vs 61% over this NSA phone records) you can bet that either a) it was a push poll with questions worded to illicit a specific response; or, b) it is a complete fabrication in a moment of desperation.

My opinion, of course.

"If there's any doubt, there is no doubt."

[marylanddem]

89. My thoughts exactly - cognitive dissonance!

[rodeodance]

29. yes, you are right.

[LiberalFighter]

60. Would they have a problem if sex talk with their spouse...

was being wiretapped?

Or if they were saying something less than flattering about their boss/co-worker to someone else?

[cantstandbush]

57. Wait until they find some of these records in the trash! n/t

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. Liars

This one is freaking them out. They are obviously desperate to even try to spew such utter bullshit.

[Tuesday_Morning]

79. Our local Air America Radio uses

ABC News at the top of the hour. It's awful.

But yesterday I turn on the radio and I heard: No, we don't. But when a known Al Qaeda member calls someone we trace all those phone calls, all those numbers. That's all we do.

Didn't catch the name but the bullshit was astounding.

[FloridaPat]

3. 80% of independents disapprove of * but 60% say it's OK to get

phone records. Sure. Everyone was upset over 3500 phone conversations being done, but everyone is fine with millions being taken? Did they poll congress for this? Maybe the MSM reporters. I can't believe that many Americans are that stupid.

[Festivito]

102. Not thinking: unwarranted and possibly misused in business.

The question does not imply they could ask FISA or Congress. Let alone that they REFUSE to ask.

Follows that it only affects people like themselves in their minds, and they don't feel that their own list of connections could lead to any conflict of interest.

If possible misuse in business and especially politics were in the news, that number would head down quickly. Add that FISA could okay the patterns of calling they wish to investigate, hardly anyone would approve.

[MockSwede]

111. I can believe

...that Americans are that stupid. Look at what kind of 'government' we have? Sheeple and fascism! As all american and mom and apple pie. Or as much as 'putting it TO mom, laying ON an apple pie', maybe?

[cal04]

4. I don't believe that

Is a government database containing a record, but not the contents, of every call within the United States justifiable? * 55088 responses
Yes, given the threat of terrorism it is appropriate.
15%
No, it's an intrusion on our right to privacy.
85%

[hwmnbn]

5. That's bullshit ......

Call me naive, but I don't want ANYBODY in my business. And I trust this government?

I don't think I'm unique.

[hobbit709]

6. Nobody asked me

[Grateful for Hope]

7. So, this was a phone survey

Thanks for answering my question!

I think the wording of some of this poll has led to misleading answers. "Is collecting phone records acceptable?". The answer to this would depend on whose records are being collected, and what is being collected.

Also, being asked if it would bother you if there was a record of your phone calls is also a tricky question as most of us think that our phone providers do carry such records.

[Beth in VT]

8. That doesn't make it any more legal. n/t

[rodeodance]

41. Bingo.

[liberal N proud]

9. I think we need to jamb the ABC phone bank and let then know differently

[Media_Lies_Daily]

10. What a pile of bull. Absolute trash.

[keopeli]

11. This telephone poll was conducted yesterday! WP is spinning hard right

The Washington Post covered this story poorly yesterday. See this journal entry for clarification.

They conducted this poll at the same time they released this news, which means it precludes a real public reaction to the telephone records being released. I believe WP is covering for the big corporations who are at serious risk.

It's one thing for the government to go snooping. It's another thing for companies to hand over your private information. Both are wrong, but the latter may have a greater impact on popular opinion.

[Justice]

12. It is still not legal.

Sampled only 502 adults. I'd be interested to know what time of day yesterday these people were contacted, and whether the respondents were aware of the USA Today story, or were still thinking the program was limited.

[bluestateguy]

13. I am in receipt of the poll from the corporate owned media

In one ear and out the other.

[Grateful for Hope]

14. Voting on the GMA site

Is it okay for the government to track phone calls made by you and millions of other Americans?

Currently:

No, it is not acceptable no matter what the government says.
1,286
Yes, if the government says it is necessary to fight terrorism.
275
Total Vote: 1,561

Edited to add that, so far, 82% find it UNACCEPTABLE.

Link: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/

[marmar]

17. Which makes their phone "survey" seem more and more...

like it's a load of bollocks. Who did they call? Was there an oversampling in Utah and Idaho?

[Grateful for Hope]

21. Also, who is "TNS"? n/t

[marmar]

25. The Neocon Society

:)

[Roland99]

61. TNS Polling and Social - The Sixth Sense of Business?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

http://text.tns-global.com/

[Roland99]

67. Rick Carbone is the CFO of the American arm of TNS

http://www.ezinearticles.com/?expert=Rick_Carbone

Same guy? Seems like it.

[6000eliot]

80. Way over 2 to 1.

[OKNancy]

15. It will take a while to sink in

As the story get wider play, I just bet that those numbers will change.

[rodeodance]

27. I would like to think so. But the mantra-'we knew this before,[DEC])-this

is nothing new seems to have hit a cord. Meaning, the press/media see no difference from the big story that came out before the holidays. The difference has not been pointed out (in some cases it it purposeful).

On the other hand, many do 'get it'!

[Avalux]

16. NO WAY. This is a bogus poll - propoganda to manipulate.

x(

[bullimiami]

18. i agree. bullshit.

[Vinca]

19. The reasoning here is because they are (supposedly) only

tracking patterns of calling. So here's my question. How do they know if I'm calling Grandma 4 times a day or Charlie the Terrorist? This is BS . . . they're listening.

[rodeodance]

22. I think this is a wake-up call for Dems--(many already know), as I see

this as a trend. People were concerned (perceptions are rea1) about terrorist attaches during the 2004 election and they are now. We ignore (diss) these polls at our peril.



....This doesn't mean privacy intrusions aren't a concern. Nearly half the public, 45 percent, say the government is not doing enough to protect Americans' rights as it investigates terrorism. This concern is far higher than it was in 2002 and 2003, closer to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks — but slightly down in this poll from its level two months ago.

Despite such concerns, however, the public continues to place a higher priority on terrorism investigations than on privacy intrusions. Sixty-five percent say it's more important for the government to investigate possible threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy, than for it to avoid privacy intrusions if that limits its investigative ability. It was the same in January, although higher still in 2002 and 2003 polls.

The phone-records program, moreover, is not broadly seen as intrusive. Two-thirds of Americans say it wouldn't bother them if the National Security Agency had a record of phone numbers that they had called. A third would be bothered; fewer, about a quarter, say it would bother them a lot.
.....

[ogradda]

23. Bullshit.

No way is that right.

[Halliburton]

24. ABC/WP Poll is the only poll that still has shrub in the 40s

This poll is not accurate and has not been accurate for a while.

[Jack Rabbit]

95. Didn't they have him at 31% this week like most of the others?

I know Harris had him at 29 and Gallup had him at 31.

[leveymg]

28. Contradicted by a CBS poll of DC area that shows the opposite

60% disapprove
33% approve
7% not sure

as reported this morning by WUSA-TV

[qanda]

30. The story just came out yesterday

Two out of three people that I talked to at Verizon hadn't heard anything about it. Hopefully they asked people if they were educated about it before they asked them if they had an opinion on it.

[ihelpu2see]

31. For some reason then, these dolts don't understand what it means to

be an American. There use to be a healthy fear that the government would gain to much power but now, unwittingly, the supposed majority this poll speaks to is okay with a Fascist State. Gov. and Big Business owning you and knowing everything about you...

[MikeNearMcChord]

32. If anybody asks how could the citizens

of Germany can accept the abuses of the Nazis, tell them it is because of citizens who think like the majority who thinks it is ok for governments to do this. It is going to take a 2x4 for some people to get it, and by then they may end up as slave labor building the George W. Bush Canal from the Great Lakes to Texas.

[LiberalFighter]

64. Which is why the Consitution is suppose to be the be all end all

Constitution over-rules even if the majority thinks it is right or wants it.

Everyone thinks it is legal as long as the majority of people agree.

[C_U_L8R]

33. I don't buy the propoganda one bit

and i won't buy a single product or service
from any compay that disrepects the sanctity
of my privacy. I'm gonna vote on this with my wallet,

[shaniqua6392]

34. That sure is strange because

in both the CNN and MSNBC online polls approximately 77% of people object to the government doing this. Personally I was wondering who the approximately 23% of people who don't object are. What idiot would not object to the government having access to our phones? They must all be repukes and I wonder how they would answer if it were a Democrat in the White House.

[LiberalFighter]

65. Senile people in nursing homes

Prisoners that don't want to get on the bad side of the warden

[texanshatingbush]

35. That's about the same percent that believed Iraq participated in 911

It appears a significant portion of the American public is still stuck on stupid.

[acmejack]

36. It would appear that there are a surprising number of cowards in the USA

I don't want any privacy, PUHLeeze just don't let the mean men hurt me! I run into it from the most surprising sources, people at one time I considered to be pretty ballsy, regardless of their gender. I am totally baffled. I am coming closer and closer to the point where I just decide that the entire fruit is rotten and cannot be saved. I am about ready to try to save myself and to hell with it all. Why torment myself daily when so many are perfectly happy, welcoming even, with their lot?

[ShortnFiery]

37. Bullshit! Do another poll and see how pissed off we are? n/t

[UpInArms]

38. Yes, I watched their broadcast last night -

and Vargas said "we will cover this from all perspectives" and then FAILED TO DO SO.

They did not mention that the NSA refused to go to the FISA court for Quest because the NSA said FISA would perhaps not agree with the surveillance.

They gave 2 perspectives: Dimson's and Heartless Dick's

:nuke:

[rodeodance]

42. oh--those nasty little details!! tst tst

,,,They did not mention that the NSA refused to go to the FISA court for Quest because the NSA said FISA would perhaps not agree with the surveillance.

[UpInArms]

45. here's what the original USAToday article said about that:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm

Trying to put pressure on Qwest, NSA representatives pointedly told Qwest that it was the lone holdout among the big telecommunications companies. It also tried appealing to Qwest's patriotic side: In one meeting, an NSA representative suggested that Qwest's refusal to contribute to the database could compromise national security, one person recalled.

In addition, the agency suggested that Qwest's foot-dragging might affect its ability to get future classified work with the government. Like other big telecommunications companies, Qwest already had classified contracts and hoped to get more.

Unable to get comfortable with what NSA was proposing, Qwest's lawyers asked NSA to take its proposal to the FISA court. According to the sources, the agency refused.

The NSA's explanation did little to satisfy Qwest's lawyers. "They told (Qwest) they didn't want to do that because FISA might not agree with them," one person recalled. For similar reasons, this person said, NSA rejected Qwest's suggestion of getting a letter of authorization from the U.S. attorney general's office. A second person confirmed this version of events.

[SOS]

55. Good old ABC

This article is quite illuminating in regard to ABC.

"ABC and the Rise of Rush Limbaugh"

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-libmedia.htm

[UpInArms]

113. thanks for that link SOS - Kangas was the best

he will be forever missed.

edited to add the following (for those unfamiliar with Steve Kangas:

http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/19990314suicide1.asp

Sunday, March 14, 1999

By Dennis B. Roddy, Post-Gazette Staff Writer

A former Army intelligence officer shot himself to death last month in a restroom outside conservative philanthropist and publisher Richard Mellon Scaife's Downtown offices, and Scaife has assigned a private investigator to determine whether the incident was a bungled assassination attempt.

Steven R. Kangas died in the late hours of Monday, Feb. 8, on the 39th floor of One Oxford Centre.

The shooting of the 37-year-old Las Vegas man attracted little attention at the time, and Pittsburgh police and the Allegheny County coroner's office quickly ruled it a suicide.

Since then, though, the Internet has churned with speculation about Kangas. Some Web theorists have drawn parallels to the 1993 death of White House Deputy Counsel Vincent Foster, whose apparent suicide Scaife has openly questioned, calling it "the Rosetta Stone" of the Clinton administration.

...more...

[Justice]

39. This poll will get cited alot today - we need to do something to address

that. Fox will cite it 400 times, so will every media person. They will change the tone of the story. Watch and see - unbelievable.

[rodeodance]

40. well, we know BushCo will use it for sure.

[still_one]

43. if true then the U.S. no longer exists

[Rose Siding]

46. It never would have existed with the attitude this poll reflects.

We'd be singing God Save the Queen

[CornField]

44. Is it also acceptable for the President to lie to them about the program?

Ask them that. Please.

[Judi Lynn]

47. Vote on CNN's online poll on the subject:

How does the report that the NSA is building a database of Americans' phone calls make you feel?

Creepy______________ 76%_______ 115680 votes

More secure__________ 24%_______ 35669 votes


Total: 151349 votes

www.cnn.com
Lower right corner

[Tracer]

48. Unfortunately ...

... there were several quotes from local people in this am's Boston Globe ---- all on the order of "I've got nothing to hide".

This ostrich-like thinking is extremely disturbing.

[riona]

49. The potential for abuse is huge

I have nothing to hide, still I disapprove of such blanket power.

[devilgrrl]

50. You have to love how the MSM just makes shit up.

Un-fucking-real. :eyes:

[robbedvoter]

51. Hello! Are you a traitor? have anything to hide? This is a survey

We are now listening in - so please answer candidly: are OK with this?

[Spazito]

52. Who/what is TNS?

The only TNS I can find is a business research group. If that is who they are, hmmmmm, why would ABC use a business research group instead of a more mainstream polling company?

[DeepModem Mom]

53. I feel like giving up. nt

[Jose Diablo]

54. Huh? 63% say acceptable? Get out of town, no way.

Who ran this poll, Rove?

Edit: I know how this happened. ABC used it's calling list of those that live just outside of DC, in that communitee where practically everyone works for the CIA, NSA, or the defense department.

[msmcghee]

56. Libs are headed for trouble with this message..

I thought that when reading the outrage of lib bloggers like Hunter and Atrios, yesterday.

In a better world where the government was working for us and our safety and not on the side of big money and political power - we'd probably think that was a pretty clever idea. Of course, our pres would have gone to great trouble to assure that the data could never be used for politics or catching pot smokers and would have put rigid safeguards in place.

But, most Americans still understand that we have to protect ourselves with the government we've got - not the government we want. So, the mild reaction, even approval from many.

I think Dem pols would be wise to say that we understand the need to protect Americans - but, now that thw world knows we're doing this, we demand some transparent safeguards from this corrupt Republican administration that guarantee our privacy.

That would shift the frame from . . .

"We hate corrupt Bush who is violating our privacy to go after terrorists" to

"We demand safeguards from Bush's corrupt administration - while he goes after terrorists we all hate".

On our current (apparent) tack we will be seen by many just as out-to-get Bush and not really concerned about protecting Americans from terrorists. That's exactly how the Pukes are going to spin it.

Just my 2 cents.

[rodeodance]

63. yes, this IS the big chore for Dems isn't it. Right on!

......On our current (apparent) tack we will be seen by many just as out-to-get Bush and not really concerned about protecting Americans from terrorists.

Just my 2 cents.

[HuffleClaw]

58. considering how they WORDED the questions, its no surprise they

got exactly the response they wanted. its what i think is called a 'push poll'. from the pdf...

3. What do you think is more important right now - (for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy); or (for the federal government not to intrude on personal privacy, even if that limits its ability to investigate possible terrorist threats)?

4. It’s been reported that the National Security Agency has been collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans. It then analyzes calling patterns in an effort to identify possible terrorism suspects, without listening to or recording the conversations. Would you consider this an acceptable or unacceptable way for the federal government terrorism? Do you feel that way strongly or somewhat?

6. Do you think it is right or wrong for the news media to have disclosed this secret government program?

[Jacobin]

71. Woot, there it is. a forking push poll

No wonder they got those responses.

:grr:

[raccoon]

72. THANK YOU. nt

[habitual]

59. No, it isn't

Stop lying to us.

[kskiska]

62. Same people who couldn't find Louisiana on a map

[rodeodance]

66. "apparently people are not concerned"--cnn, reporting on this poll just

now. very brief report--just the big highlight.

[reichstag911]

69. What,...

...they ignored their own poll results at www.cnn.com? Fucking whores!

[sinkingfeeling]

68. Who did they poll, the Bush administration?

[Triana]

70. Who wrote this trash, Tony Snow?

Or Karl Rove?

[Julius Civitatus]

73. ABC to the rescue...

Remember ABC, the same corporation that banned Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11" when the Bush administration asked them to.

[6000eliot]

81. Stephanopolis was on this morning

saying this wouldn't be a big deal and wouldn't do a lot to harm the Hayden nomination. The story had "bullshit" written all over it. I turned it off.

[cyberpj]

96. Georgie boy has been a BIG disappointment. What happened to him? nt

[noel adamson]

108. Perhaps if the general public had Negroponte's resume' and understood...

...the implications of his teaming up with Hayden in his new position as uber spook of the big prize, the "home land". The death squads left in Negroponte's wake are well documented, vicious and always appear when fascists are faced with far too little support to "win" elections even by stuffing ballot boxes, intimidation of voters, corporate advertising campaigns etc. etc.

As Henry Kissinger said just prior to the U.S. backed coup which installed strong arm dictator Augusto Pinochet in the face of a very popular socialist leader who was subsequently murdered as were thousands of his followers, after the most horrendous tortures by U.S. trained terrorist death squads;

"I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go Communist due to the irresponsibility of its own people."
-- US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger

In their minds, now as then, everything to the left of Hitler is "communist" and that the only thing "liberals" and "leftests" understand is terror.

[The Backlash Cometh]

74. That is so not true. Even William Saffire would agree with me on this one

Do you know the impact this will have? It is an infringement of Free Speech because we don't know what the dirty trickster in the GOP are doing with the information so it will only make us afraid to correspond with each other via on-line or via phone. I already don't talk to my neighbors because of political differences and what they might do to my kids & husband through their local connections.

It's just outrageous that the Mainstream press would push this lie. It's time to out the people in the press which are part of the GOP junta.

[Paulie]

75. If any of the big three telcom companies that handed over data

report earnings corrections or warnings, this will PROVE how much people really care about this issue.

Watch the stock price of AT&T, Sprint and Belsouth... and keep an eye out for warnings on earnings!

[zann725]

76. The "spin" begins. And ABC? May as well have been Faux News poll.

Let me guess who they polled. Those implicated in the fastly-developing "Watergate II" scandal. Those would say ANYTHING to 'plea bargain' their way out of WoHoGate.

Of course, ALL people CARE...eventually There IS a point at which even the soundest "political" sleeper is awakened from a "safe" sound catatonia. THIS is the beginning...at last.

[Miss Chybil]

77. Bullshit. At one times Americans thought it was acceptable to own

Black people.

[Clyde39]

78. Do the people in the poll understand all the facets of this?

I'll bet they haven't a clue!

[Tight_rope]

82. Bullshit! Total bullshit!....What stupid motherfucker....

would want to continue to let this corrupted government infrenge on their rights.:shrug: Certainly not I.

[Bandit]

83. Funny it wasn't at all acceptable when they first started it

In fact it was so controversial they "said" they discontinued it. Remember TIA, "Total Information Awareness"

[Nothing Without Hope]

84. The WaPo article on this: ***LINK***

The data were taken in phone calls on May 11. You have to wonder at the Bush-supporting numbers and timing of this. Hard to believe that this high a proportion of Americans admire and accept this outrage.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/12/AR2006051200375.html?nav=hcmodule

Poll: Most Americans Support NSA's Efforts

By Richard Morin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 12, 2006; 7:00 AM

(snip)

The new survey found that 63 percent of Americans said they found the NSA program to be an acceptable way to investigate terrorism, including 44 percent who strongly endorsed the effort. Another 35 percent said the program was unacceptable, which included 24 percent who strongly objected to it.

A slightly larger majority--66 percent--said they would not be bothered if NSA collected records of personal calls they had made, the poll found.

Underlying those views is the belief that the need to investigate terrorism outweighs privacy concerns. According to the poll, 65 percent of those interviewed said it was more important to investigate potential terrorist threats "even if it intrudes on privacy." Three in 10--31 percent--said it was more important for the federal government not to intrude on personal privacy, even if that limits its ability to investigate possible terrorist threats.

Half--51 percent--approved of the way President Bush was handling privacy matters.

(snip)

Here are the poll data:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/postpoll_nsa_051206.htm

[katinmn]

85. Liars. n/t

[Singular73]

86. So they called people on the PHONE and asked if they were ok with it?

ROFL.

Absurd.

[Akoto]

87. Even if this were true, it's still not legal.

This is just a flimsy attempt at covering for the NSA.

[marylanddem]

88. lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie

[0007]

90. Big corporations come to the aid of junior will phoney information

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080261/

Do you care if the government has your phone records? * 22,682 responses

Yes
76%

No
24%

Who can explain why these folks are against phone spying and the other networks are saying they don't mind?

[fshrink]

91. It would be interesting to define exactly

what kind of "republic" the republicans now stand for. Which principles still stand. Which part of the constitution has not been "exceptionalized". Is there a hard line beyond which the concept of republic is so denaturated that it becomes something else? And where is it? I am afraid such questions will never be brought up to a public debate since every one seems to be playing the off-line to temporarily convince the mass of uninformed, uncritical, basically uninterested, and therefore undecided which decides of a rigged election.

[gulliver]

92. Misdirection and stupid handling by Dem leaders so far.

Everybody should approve of LEGAL phone record surveillance. I do. The Dems have Bush's breast in an old-fashioned clothes-drying mechanism again, but he slips by. No wonder Bush takes risks with lies and arrogance. They pay off.

I'm very, very disappointed that our top Dem leaders are screwing this up. People are starting to think the Dems don't want record surveillance and the "president" does. All the Dems want is respect for law when it comes to the 4th Amendment. Bush breaks the law and lies about it. Bush destroys the idea of checks and balances in the Constitution. ABC over-simplifies the issue. And most Dem leaders just sit there.

[Jack Rabbit]

93. This was brought up by a Bush Bubbah in a ducussion on The Nation

My reply:

Another Red Herring Award for LL

In fact, such a lengthy post deserves at least two.

The first Red Herring Award is for his use of Argumentum ad Populum. If two-thirds of those surveyed think the Earth is flat, it doesn't change the fact that it is round. The fact that two-thirds surveyed answered as they did doesn't mean that their Fourth Amendment rights aren't being violated.

In addition, was there a question asked in the poll about how many believe it would be too much trouble for the government to get a warrant for this fishing expedition? (I'll save you the trouble, LL; the answer is No; the word warrant does not appear in any of the questions).

Next, we have this:

What do you think is more important right now - (for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy); or (for the federal government not to intrude on personal privacy, even if that limits its ability to investigate possible terrorist threats)?

For citing this, LL and The Washington Post are jointly awarded a Red Herring Award for use of a False Dilemma. The False Dilemma is a logical fallacy of which Bush, neoconservatives and their partisans are particularly found. A prize-winning example of this fallacy is "You're either with us or with the terrorists."

The way the question is posed, the issue becomes a matter of either protecting civil liberties or fighting terrorism. That is simply either/or.

Again, the Post failed to ask respondents for their feelings about whether the government should get a warrant to seek this information.

A question not asked would be: Do you believe it is possible for the government to fight terrorism in such a way at to protect the Constitutional rights of private citizens? My answer, were I asked such a question, would be: Yes, absolutely.

No matter how the Bush Bubbahs try to spin it, the NSA program is a wholesale violation of the Fourth Amendment. It would not be too much trouble for the government to get a warrant before looking at the phone records of private citizens. Furthermore, I resent the corporate sycophancy with this fascist snooping and will look into changing my phone company today.

In any event, for LL's hysteria and bluster, he is without a valid argument that the government has any right to do what it has done without a warrant.

[killbotfactory]

94. Did they mention that it was warrantless?

I wonder how different the responses would be if they asked "Do you believe the president has the right to violate the 4th amendment?"

[grasswire]

97. the actual text of the questions

Here's the language from the Washington Post/ABC News poll :

"What do you think is more important right now -- (for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy); or (for the federal government not to intrude on personal privacy, even if that limits its ability to investigate possible terrorist threats)? Sixty-five percent said investigate threats; 31 percent said privacy.

"It's been reported that the National Security Agency has been collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans. It then analyzes calling patterns in an effort to identify possible terrorism suspects, without listening to or recording the conversations. Would you consider this an acceptable or unacceptable way for the federal government to investigate terrorism? Do you feel that way strongly or somewhat?" Sixty-three percent said acceptable, 35 percent said unacceptable.


Thanks to Dan Froomkin at The Washington Post.

[doc03]

98. I voted on one poll last night and the numbers were

exactly the opposite then, I was shocked this morning when all the MSM was reporting the opposite results today. I heard that asshole Matthews say that we trust this President but we didn't trust Clinton and may not trust the next President with that information. Where in the hell does he get this we trust this President when he has a 29% approval rating?

[dave502d]

99. Bullshit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!n/t

[Ratty]

100. Difference between Dems and Repubs

If this were Bill Clinton pulling this stunt I'm fairly sure he'd catch hell from from both sides of the aisle. I'd like to think we Democrats would be pretty darn sore with him and we'd be vocal about it. And we all know the Repubs would be SCREAMING for impeachment. But since it's one of their own, all is right with the world. George can do no wrong.

[Le Taz Hot]

101. Just a reminder that

only about 20% of the population in 1775 advocated breaking away from the British. 'Course, most people were illiterate back then and very few were formally educated. Come to think of it, with the dumbing down of American curriculum, I suppose we're facing the same thing now. Starve the education system of teachers able to do what they do best -- teach, good curriculum and adequate monies and what you get is complacent, lazy-assed Bush voters.

[Raine]

103. Privacy is only one part of it

the other issue is that it's not effective, too much information. While investigators are busy with this kind of ridiculous thing the real terrorists are getting away. x(

[Dr Fate]

104. Most polls showed support for attacking Iraq too. n/t

n/t

[droidamus2]

105. How was the question asked

If they frame it as a 'fighting terror' question they get this kind of answer. If you frame as a question of whether the federal government should have a right to spy on the phone conversations and records of American citizens without court or congressional oversight I suspect you would get a totally different result.

[Nothing Without Hope]

107. You are EXACTLY right. See post #106. n/t

[Nothing Without Hope]

106. ***THE TRUTH ABOUT THIS SCAM FROM FIREDOGLAKE:***

I'm not going to quote from it because I'm hoping you'll read the whole thing. It isn't long, and it shows what is going on in this very deliberately misleading gambit, done to undercut any backbone developed by Democrats and bolster the WH:

http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/12/bush-league

It's all in the way the questions are asked, and this guy has done the same thing before to boost the GOP agenda. You can bet this bogus poll data will be quoted for a long time to come to show that "Americans support total NSA surveillance."

[Nothing Without Hope]

109. ***ANOTHER THREAD ON HOW THIS POLL IS A SCAM - Link***

Jane Hamsher at Firedoglake explains it all and gives damning history of this "pollster." This is all a carefully orchestrated, WH-run PR campaign, and the bogus "poll results" are already being pushed hard in the corporate media.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1174702
thread title (5-12-06 GD): Bogus WaPo/ABC poll on Americans' "support" of NSA spying-FIGHT THIS SCAM!

[Rex]

110. Well then I guess ABC should just write the laws and procedures

for running the country. :eyes: The MSM is REALLLLY struggling hard right now to save the Bush regime. Keep sucking you whores!

[screembloodymurder]

112. It really doesn't f--king matter what they think.

These are MY rights and I'm not giving them back.