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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:32 AM
Original message
U.S. Ambassador to Norway: Are you friendly or not?
Here's a doc of the remarks of ambassador Benson K. Whitney, appointed by Bush to replace John Ong when the Social Democrat/Socialist Left govt. replaced the Christian Conservative govt. last year. The remarks are breaking news today, but from a speech held 22. of May at the Nobel Institute:



Norway and the United States: Partners for the 21st Century?

Remarks by Ambassador Benson K. Whitney
Nobel Institute
Oslo, Norway
May 22, 2006

(as prepared for delivery)

After five months as Ambassador, a basic question keeps nagging at me: What kind of relationship do Norway and the United States really want in this 21st century? Times and interests change. People and countries change. Maintaining any relationship, personal or national, demands a conscious effort to evaluate, and then adjust to current realities. So - what do Norway and the U.S. want of their relationship in this new century?

We have shared a special partnership in the 20th century that naturally sprang from our shared history. Hundreds of thousands of Norwegian immigrants enriched the American Melting Pot and became some of the strongest weave in the immigrant fabric of the American character. Nowhere is this more prevalent than in my home state of Minnesota. These ties also flowed in the opposite direction, channeling an enduring American influence on Norway. Strong people-to-people ties have grounded our relationship in fundamental common values. Norway and the U.S. have grown from the same root of constitutional democracy, sharing a deep devotion to the dignity of the individual, the rule of law, compassion for the needy, and above all else, an unwavering commitment to freedom.

These shared values met in our nations’ collective action at critical times in history. We stood shoulder-to-shoulder against Nazi tyranny and then Communist dictatorship. And together, because of our friendship, we helped win a destiny-defining victory for democracy in Europe.

But - it would be naive to say that our special relationship has not experienced strong forces for change in the past 20 years. The end of the Cold War vastly lessened the imminent security threats within Europe and on Norway’s border. The relationship of both Norway and the United States to Russia has changed dramatically and continues to evolve. Norway’s immense oil wealth and its position as a global energy supplier have created both a new sense of independence and enormous economic interests to protect. Importantly, as generations pass, the fundamental ties of heritage with the U.S. also become slowly, but inevitably, diluted.

So I must ask - no, we must ask - does our historic special relationship have meaning in the 21st century - or is it a vestige of the past? As sovereign nations, Norway and the U.S. have a right to strike their own course. Nations must choose very carefully where their strongest ties will be because special relationships require serious commitments of energy, resources, and sometimes, sacrifice. No nation can be all things to all countries.

Since coming to Norway I have heard voices express a wide range of views on our future relationship. Some say that Norway should strengthen its military, economic and cultural ties to Europe. Others think Norway’s wealth and the lack of an immediate security threat means it should avoid entangling relationships of any kind. It should instead carve out an independent course, focusing on global organizations, like the United Nations. Other voices caution that hard-won experience and global realities compel Norway to continue its special relationship with the U.S. And, while these paths need not be mutually exclusive, each requires choices and priorities. Again, it is simply not possible to be all things to all people.

Of course, it is for Norwegians to decide Norway’s path. As Ambassador, however, it is fairly within my concern that Norway actively addresses the question of our relationship; that intellectuals, politicians, business people, media, and ordinary Norwegians consider where and how we should go together in the future. We cannot assume our relationship in the 21st century, we must choose it.

I believe my country’s choice is made and is clear: we want the strongest, closest partnership with Norway. As you may recall, my President was the first world leader to call to congratulate Prime Minister Stoltenberg on his election victory and express our desire to maintain our historically close bilateral ties.

The U.S. is committed to this special relationship. Many of you have heard me say this since I arrived in Norway in January - my core mandate as Ambassador is to nourish our special relationship, promote the strongest bilateral ties possible, find new areas for cooperation, minimize disagreement, and ensure that when we disagree, to do so as respectful friends.

Some might ask - why is our partnership still important in the century ahead? The basic reason lies in the reality of 21st century challenges. They are largely global in nature and demand a cooperative global response by capable partner nations that can and will work together. For example, in this century, poorly governed states are not just a burden to their own people and a humanitarian concern, but now pose a security threat to us all. The very real threats of terrorism and weapons of mass destruction are emerging from within these weak and failed states now, so their internal political instability, poverty, and public health issues become global security challenges. Also, in the economic sphere of energy security, the tightly interlinked global economy means that instability anywhere causes energy insecurity everywhere.

Thus, 21st century threats blur the lines between security, political, economic, and humanitarian interests. These interconnected global problems demand global responses. Our interests and the world’s needs compel us to work together to use a 21st century relationships to address 21st century problems.

In this context, Norway and the United States are natural partners, uniquely suited to work together on these new kinds of challenges. Simply stated, we share the desire, the means, and the values that are needed. I am struck that in any place around the globe where there is conflict or suffering you are bound to find a Norwegian trying to make things better, and usually beside that Norwegian you’ll find an American lending a helping hand. That is the nature of our peoples.

Around the world, Norway and the U.S. create an especially powerful diplomatic combination. Norway is viewed as a trusted, non-threatening advocate for peace and development, while the U.S. brings to bear its global reach and the weight of a superpower. Both nations can offer their impulse to do good and a willingness to expend real resources. We are both countries of doers and not just talkers. That sets us apart - together.

Indeed, the agenda for such a 21st century partnership between Norway and the U.S. is large. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has spoken of the need for a “transformational diplomacy” where the U.S. will work with close partners like Norway to help build and sustain democratic states that both meet the needs of their people and operate responsibly in the international system. This is our best chance to truly combat terrorism. It is both morally right and in our self-interest to seek transformation in far-flung places like Afghanistan, Iraq, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Burma, Kosovo, Belarus, Haiti, and Darfur. And we do - and we should.

On other security fronts, the U.S. and Norway should be the driving forces for realizing the potential of NATO and transforming both its role and its resources to meet new challenges. We must lead together in the battle against non-proliferation. We must maintain and even deepen our critical security relationship that frequently goes unheralded. Norway and the U.S. must, when necessary, be able to project power around the world to do the right thing militarily when we need to.

The High North offers another place where our two countries should focus our 21st century agenda. Yes, it is true that Norway will be an increasingly important supplier and that the U.S. will be a growing consumer of hydrocarbons, but there is much more to our shared interest in the region than that. Both nations have a profound interest in enhancing global energy security, because we both deeply care that supply disruptions hurt the economic security of billions of people. Both Norway and the U.S. have strong interests in a stable security environment and a protected natural environment in the High North. We have common concerns about the warming of the Arctic region and need to fully understand why this is happening and determine together what is the best approach for dealing with it.

Our common 21st century agenda should offer the less fortunate of the world our countries’ overriding compassion. President Bush recently said:

“We show compassion abroad…because believe in the God-given dignity and worth of a villager with , or an infant with malaria, or a refugee fleeing genocide, or a young girl sold into slavery. We also show compassion abroad because regions overwhelmed by poverty, corruption, and despair are sources of terrorism, organized crime, human trafficking, and the drug trade.”

We must show compassion because it is the right thing to do. It is also the best way to protect our own citizens.

The list of potential cooperation goes on and on from there - human rights, vaccinations, UN reform. Neither of our countries can meet all these global challenges successfully alone. But few countries can do more if they act in partnership. This is the reason it is important for us to remain committed to our work together.

Maintaining such a 21st century partnership will demand more of us than in the past. We will have to work at it. How? To start, we must combat the dilution of our people-to-people ties. Mutual understanding only comes through direct experience of one another. Norway must appreciate that America is more than SUVs, Desperate Housewives, and Oprah. The U.S. must appreciate that Norway is more than sweaters, trolls and ski jumpers.

And so we must reverse the troubling decline in the educational and other exchanges between our nations. Today, only 6% of Norwegian students going abroad for degrees go to the United States, which now trails Australia, the UK, and Denmark. Only a trickle of Americans are coming to study in Norway. This is simply not good enough. I want you to know that increasing the number of exchanges between Norway and the U.S. will be one of my top priorities.

We must also reinforce the underappreciated security cooperation between our nations. Our mutual security challenges lie far outside our own borders. They require projecting power far from home. Working effectively together means Norway must continue to invest in its armed forces. Both countries must proceed with concrete efforts at military transformation to more mobile, flexible forces. Military exchanges, joint training, and the use of common technology platforms will ensure a military interoperability that will allow Norway and the U.S. to project power together wherever needed. Norway’s continued participation in the Joint Strike Fighter program would maximize our continued ability to work together globally. I hope that going forward with this decision will be seen as not just an economic issue, but also one of critical strategic importance.

We must also be careful to protect our relationship through our words and behavior. As in all true friendships, our relations must contain both affection and candor. I will work hard to strengthen our ties by an eager commitment to hearing and speaking the truth between friends. I have already had some lively discussions about U.S. policy on detainees, about Iraq, about global warming. I am not afraid of those discussions. I welcome them. We, in the end, may disagree, but we can come to understand what stands behind each other’s thinking. That is what special friends do.

I have noticed sometimes, however, that skepticism of the U.S. now sometimes crosses over into outright anti-Americanism. I hope Norwegians will resist a clichéd attitude that reflexively views the United States’ every action as motivated by some bad intent. That is not right and it is not fair. Of course the U.S. make mistakes, but they should not define us as a nation. We should be credited for struggling with them openly and trying to fix them.

And I also believe that unrelenting critics - and the media - frequently overlook the many positive actions the U.S. takes in the world. For example, did you know that 400,000 Africans are receiving AIDS treatment as part of the $15B U.S. public health program that will impact tens of millions more with prevention and treatment? Did you know the U.S. has spent over $20B in the past four years on climate change research and clean energy technologies? Did you know that the U.S. is leading the world in pursuing debt relief for developing countries? We are not always right, but I am proud that we try to do what is right, not only for Americans but for the world.

Building this partnership will take effort and perseverance. But I strongly believe that the effort will pay off for both of us by promoting peace and prosperity around the world.

In conclusion, I again pose the essential question - what kind of relationship do Norway and the U.S. want to have in the 21st century? I cannot answer for Norway. But I do have a clear vision from the American perspective and it is rooted in a bit of Norwegian culture.

In Norse mythology, the universe consisted of nine different worlds held in three concentric levels - Asgard, Midgard, and Niflheim. This universe contained the interacting realms of gods, humans, giants and dwarves. The central axis of these levels and worlds was the mighty ash tree Yggdrasil, the great Guardian Tree that connected and nourished all living things.

Although we’ve dispensed with the mythological creatures, our world too is now a very complex and layered system. And we will increasingly depend on structures that connect us and bring order to our world. Our Guardian Tree is comprised of the community of nations and the unity of peoples that embody the enduring human ideals of justice, compassion, peace, and above all, freedom.

The United States and Norway are among the strongest branches of our global Yggdrasil. And so it’s the responsibility of free peoples like us to work closely together to strengthen these ideals and challenge those who would subvert them. Is this idealistic? Yes, of course it is - but our peoples have consistently put such shared ideals to work across time and across the world. I am proud that both Americans and Norwegians spring from a tradition of pragmatic idealism that finds hope and opportunity in the world, not just threats and fears. Our common tradition is to make a difference for the good and leave the world a better place for our children and grandchildren. This is the spirit that created my country and yours; this is the spirit that led all of our ancestors to seek better lives when history and natural circumstances threw obstacles in their paths.

So, yes, I strongly believe that Norway and the United States must re-commit to this special relationship. The world needs it and our values demand it. We should not shy away from tending our Guardian Tree. Let us choose our friendship, not just in memory of the past, but in hope for the future. Let us make our relations a true “Partnership for the 21st Century.”

Thank you.

Document:
http://www.dagbladet.no/download/NobelSpeech.doc

News (Norw):
http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2006/05/24/467099.html
------------------------------------------------------

My take on this is: Can I choose which America to be friends with? 'Shared ideals' - that's bullshit. It's not the US I have a problem with, it's the Bush govt. - just like 70 percent of the Am. people ;-)
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. I've said on a recent thread that the real answer is no.
You can't go to diplomacy with the America you want, you have to go with the America you have. And that's the America represented by the legal government. (I'll avoid a long argument by skipping the word "elected").

But the US is in a funny position when ambassadors all over the world are asking in an accusatory tone, "Do you want to have friendly relations with the United States of America or not?" and the general response is along the lines of, "Is this a trick question?..." or "What have you done for the world lately?"
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. bully tactics, the nazis did the same thing pre-ww2 nt
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. It touches this nation deeply
The rift between ourselves and our oldest ally :-(
You must not doubt that. There are deep ties between our nations after more than one third of the Norw. population emigrated to the US during the 19th century.
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. It's not that I'm doubting that but, why's it all Norway's fault?
That's what I'm wondering.
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. I know
We have the neocons here too, you know. Currently at app. 30% and having wet dreams of being in government in 2009. Basically, we're the US as it was in the 90's:
- very radicalized political right, strongly influenced by evangelist religion
- focus groups/media attacking the elected (Left) govt.
- low awareness among the Left's supporters of what's going on
- nationalism boost combined with a feeling of being unfairly treated

Ah well.
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Copperred Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
29. very good question.
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lakeguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. "Some might ask - why is our partnership still important in the...
century ahead?"

i know, i know....is it because Norway has oil?
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Yes, that's part of it
And perhaps some credibility as 'exporters of peace and democracy'? ;-)

Bush sucks, I want President Kerry please.
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mcscajun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks for sharing this. We don't hear enough about what's going
on by our ambassadors; this was interesting.

I'd be curious to hear what reaction this story gets among the readers of the Norwegian press.
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Not much positive, I'm afraid
Here's my repsonse, posted in the article comments:

"Please Mr. Ambassador:

Get over it. Your time is nearly past.
Who do you think you're fooling?

Bush is at 29% in the polls, and only idiots woud tie Norway to a regime that soon will be regarded as illegal.

You are serving a fascist, and norwegians can smell fascism from afar. Please go home, take your advisors, your CIA agents and the rest of the Bush shills with you. You can even have the Progress party - they belong wherever you are going.

Thanks for your stay."
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. A great little letter.
I wish we could say the same thing, but when we send them home they just go home. Around the corner. :(

The best we can hope for is to shut them up for a while, and maybe put a few of them in jail.

But it's good to know we still have some friends out there. :hi:
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. Here's the 'vote-winner' from the article comments, mcscajun
The articles has possibility for voting, which ranks the posts. This is the answer with most positive votes:

"Friends of the American people

Skrevet av: Kjetil Kjernsmo , 24.05.2006 kl. 14:51
Dear Ambassador,

I have many American friends, and as you correctly point out, there has always been, and will always remain strong ties between the Norwegian people and the American people.

There are two things that the world admires the Americans for: Its insistence on personal freedoms and the entrepenourship of every American.

The possibilities and opportunities to succeed as a small entrepenour has diminished, if you threaten the business model of a megacorporation, they will crush you. Many of my friends have been in this situation. Laws, such as the DMCA, voted through without dissent or debate, has insititutionalised this very unfortunate development.

After 911, all my friends report that the personal freedoms have been eroded. Extensive surveillance, lack of judicial oversight, "every police officer comes equiped with extended claws", contributes to that what my friends sees as a terrible development. Some of them have allready left their country. Others are seeking other countries to restart their businesses.

So, in the recent years, both things people look up to America for, the things that made America great, has been thorn down. I will remain a friend of the American people, but I cannot remain a friend of an administration and a corporate structure that abuses my friends.

I think in a few years, the American people as a whole will thank us for our opposition to the current adminstration, I'm rather sure, as my friends allready do. Friendships are not between adminstrations, they are between peoples."

I'd say he's speaking for most Norwegians ;-)
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mcscajun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #16
25. We thank you now! It won't take a few years to do so.
We appreciate all who are overseas and speak up against this administration.

:)

I'm proud to carry some Norwegian ancestry in my American mutt mix. :)
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #25
36. And I'm so happy to find that we're more or less the same people, lol
Really, I mean that :-)

Thank you, mcscajun.
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #16
45. OK, an update to this case: File YOUR question to the ambassador
The paper dagbladet has a net meeting with the ambassador today at 2 o'clock local Norw. time (in 4 hours from this post) - feel free to file your question. After all, why shouldn't ordinary Americans be represented in the debate? ;-)

Here's the article for filing questions:
http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2006/05/26/467235.html

Quick translation:

Tittel - Title
Spørsmål - Question
Navn - Name
Epost - Email

Give him something to chew on.
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
8. Isn't the Bush administration pissed for some Israel standpoint ?
what those guys don't understand is that those "ideals" are not always shared :

"We have common concerns about the warming of the Arctic region and need to fully understand why this is happening and determine together what is the best approach for dealing with it."

we know EXACTLY what's happening : by burning alone 25% of the planets carbon ressources, the US ithe biggest single contributer to global warming.

"We must show compassion because it is the right thing to do. It is also the best way to protect our own citizens."

1) the first part is a truism.
2) it's NOT the best way to protect our citizens. Compassion (=charity) is the way the rich man has to appease his bad conscience. It's quite innefficient too. European prefer tax-funded social security system. Less morals, less poor


"And I also believe that unrelenting critics - and the media - frequently overlook the many positive actions the U.S. takes in the world. For example, did you know that 400,000 Africans are receiving AIDS treatment as part of the $15B U.S. public health program that will impact tens of millions more with prevention and treatment? Did you know the U.S. has spent over $20B in the past four years on climate change research and clean energy technologies? Did you know that the U.S. is leading the world in pursuing debt relief for developing countries?"

this is like peeing in the ocean, specially the AIDS part. The US relief/capita is nothing compared with ... Norways which is 1st in the world. Most of the US "aid" goes to Egypt-Israel and goes to weapon purchases. The day the US gives away 1-2% of its GDP (easily done by lowering military expenditures and unnecessary wars), we'll start talking...

Heja Norge !

ja vi elsker dette land
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Thanks, tocqueville
It seems our relationship with both Israel and the US is in tatters, and Norway hasn't changed that much the past decade.
Both is equally sad, as deep ties exists between both nations and my country.

One thing buggers me about this speech; the use of the word friends. Can nations be friends? I have always seen it as mutual interests, sustainable relationship for a common future - a shared cultural base, and then the friendship exists on a more personal level, between ordinary people.

It's the lingo of modern day politicians - it's so easy and superficial these days.

Thanks again :-)
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Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
10. They should ask: "Is the USA a free, democratic nation anymore, or not?
That would shut his pie hole.

Man, the neocons have some limitless supply of chutzpah.
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. It's pretty shameless, no?
But then most Norwegians doesn't know what may be read from these pages, and some buy into his version of the US.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
11. I do wish they would stop using the word "U.S." when they mean "Bush"
We don't have a king, although I understand Norway does. You know what, there is a solution to this. We demote our President to the same figurehead status as King Harald, and make it much easier to change governing Administrations. America might begin behaving like a democracy, and would be welcome rejoin the rest of the world.

You might like our next Ambassador, a lot better.
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. That would for sure solve a great deal
It'll give the people something to look up to, to admire. Somebody without exec-power, but still with a lot of inspirational power, if you know what I mean? ;-)

But, no. The more I see of the American republic the more I like the idea of the republic. For the US, not for Norway - I like things as they are here. But at least you have politicians in contact with the grass root, able to form a movement - Dean is a good example. Clark, Gore and Kerry too, but especially Dean.
Feck, look at the team the Dems have just now!

If it wasn't for Bush anti-democratic behaviour and the cheating in elections, they'd sweep the table clean.

I like that guy, lol. He has that half hung over Kennedy-look :-)
I used to have a quote from his book as my sig line:

"Your mother didn't raise you to be a jerk who sucks up to power and treats the help like dirt. Go ahead and prosper, but mind your manners. And don't pick on the vulnerable."

Pretty much sums it up.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
14. A polite, wordy way of saying, "Are you with us or agin' us?"
This whole gasbag speech. Us = Bush junta.

Norwegians have had quite enough of Roman Empire "christian" fanatics shoving swords down their throats in the name of Jesus, thank you very much!

Sounds like he's gotten an earful from these pagan infidels. Go, Norge!
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #14
23. Yes, in a sugar-wrapped way
The previous ambassador Ong implied the same just before the Iraqi war started - an ill omen?

What he said on the 12th of March 2003 was:
«When a friend you'd had all your life says no to do you a favour, the friendship change. We're not becoming vengeant, but we're no longer ready to come to his aid if he needs help (...) The friendship never becomes the same again.»

That struck us as very unfair and rude. And he continued down that line later on.

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article894853.ece
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Tempest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
18. Norway to partner with Cuba in drilling for oil
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. That's interesting
Thanks for posting this, I had no idea :-)
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
19. another black-noser from cheneyco
trying to stick their noses up the asses of any country with oil-wealth to exploit and further the agenda of the uber-wealthy & the military-industrial complex that keeps them that way.
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #19
33. In 2004 the US ambassador urged Norway to boost oil production
"Norway urged to boost oil production
John Doyle Ong, the US' ambassador to Norway, wants both Norway and Russia to boost their production of oil and gas. He reportedly supports more offshore oil exploration and speedier development of the new Snow White gas field"
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/business/article831326.ece

Very pushy, mr. Ong.

But he was subjected to the typical Norwegian (bad) humor once:

"Teenage swindler turns himself in
A 19-year-old Norwegian charged with more than 100 counts of fraud showed up at a Bergen police station on Monday. "I've booked a room here for 14 days," he told a surprised desk sergeant when he gave himself up for questioning.
<..>
In one famous case earlier this year, he duped US ambassador John Doyle Ong into thinking he was the prime minister, and kept him on the phone for 15 minutes discussing the war in Iraq."
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article565538.ece

Rural life up north :D
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
21. Does anyone remember Bush just refused to meet Norway's Prime Minister?
Edited on Wed May-24-06 10:39 AM by Judi Lynn
Here's a short article to refresh your memories:
Bush declined to meet Norway's Prime Minister
US President George W.Bush has reportedly declined to meet Norwegian Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg, according to NRK. The reason is said to be that the new Stoltenberg government has adopted a more critical attitude to the US, compared with the Bondevik government.

NRK quotes unnamed sources, who point to several issues where there has been a change, and which is the reason for the change in USA's attitude.
One case that the US administration is said to have reacted to, is the decision to withdraw Norwegian soldiers from Iraq.

This was made clear the day after the Norwegian election last fall. In a telephone conversation with President Bush, incoming Prime Minister Stoltenberg said he would order the withdrawal of Norwegian officers from Iraq.

According to Major Tormod Heier of the Norwegian Institute for Defence Studies, Norway was earlier one of the countries which was given highest priority.

Others point to the fact that former prime minster Kjell Magne Bondevik had close to free access to US President and his staff.
(snip/...)
http://www.norwaypost.no/cgi-bin/norwaypost/imaker?id=24007

For some reason, Bush didn't want to play host, and share photo ops with Norway's Prime Minister. I can't imagine why, can you?



Norway's Prime Minister, Jens Stoltenberg.




U.S. President
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. I recal this.
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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. Yes, & I remember when he refused to call the new Spanish president. We
have an incorrigible, petulant, temper-tantrum throwing, child bully for POTUS.

AND, he dresses like Truman Capote when he couldn't spell CAT if you spotted him the "C" & the "A"!
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. You're right! Spain moved away from the Nazi-like guy Bush loved,
but whose name he couldn't pronouce correctly.

Good point. What a stunted, unprofessional, unsophisticated clown has seized our government's highest position.
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #21
32. Yowzah! That's a familiar face, lol
You're right, Bush declined to meet him.

I have wondered how Bush sees this man and his government - like a northern Hugo Chavez, perhaps?
He's not, actually he's very moderate and so is his fellow Labour govt. members. The Socialist Left is more radical (especially their Israel-boycott didn't go down well with the US), but they also are moving to the center to provide a base on the left as a total.
They're the buffer against the Progress party and their menacing Mr. Hagen; a Bush-supporter described as Bush' Norwegian twin in ways of ideology.
He also has neonazi ties, and is a populist sailing up as the 'white hope' of the north. I've collected some info about his followers:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1149279

Thanks for posting this, Judi Lynn :-)
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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
22. "So, are you with us or against us?" Oh, fuck him & his bs loyalty oaths!
And all this "hey look, we're not so bad, look at all the great stuff we do for those poor natives", makes me want to vomit.

And, as everyone else has pointed out, Norwegians can tell the difference between Americans and our asshole president and I suspect their problem is with the asshole president.

Don't be lumping us together, you Bush-appointed prick!
He's YOUR chimp, YOU clean up his shit.
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #22
34. I'll quote that in the article comments, if I may?
:-)
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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. Of course. I am a bit passionate this morning, I just got back from
Europe where everyone seemed so sane and rational, and I have just had it UP TO HERE with the nincompoops running my own country.

BTW, everyone I met in France & Spain, from all walks of life, were incredibly nice and friendly to us. Even after I told them I was from Texas! It's obvious they have had many more yrs of experience than us.

Another tidbit: Petrol prices were significantly lower there (yes, I figured in metric conversion, LOL) - even in the heart of the big cities. I couldn't wait to report that to the repubs I know who bitch & moan about such things. Of course I reminded them that those lower prices even include support for social programs.

And, Smart cars are incredibly cute! Why don't we have those here???
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #22
42. How if he'd answered, "You shouldn't be asking others whether
Edited on Wed May-24-06 05:26 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
they're for you or against you."

"That is the question Christ asks all of us; and I'm afraid the significance of that question posed by Christ renders the significance of your parroting of his words, shall we say less than relevant, or even intelligible."

"If Dan Quayle was no John Kennedy, perhaps it would be fair to opine that you're not Jesus Christ.
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mcscajun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
26. Does anyone have verification of this?
I've been yelling since the 2002 SOTU about Bush's highly-vaunted but invisible financial assistance to AIDS victims in Africa.

Now comes this nugget buried in the Ambassador's speech:

"For example, did you know that 400,000 Africans are receiving AIDS treatment as part of the $15B U.S. public health program that will impact tens of millions more with prevention and treatment?"

Can anyone point me to a source on this? $15B was pledged...how much has actually been authorized/spent/delivered?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. I don't have a link handly, but articles came out later than Bush
actually cut back the amount of money originally pledged to Africa for AIDS treatment. As soon as it was announced, probably NO ONE felt surprised. Very typical.
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mcscajun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. Typical indeed. I've been watching this and haven't seen a thing
Edited on Wed May-24-06 11:17 AM by mcscajun
until this speech.

All words...no substance. Just like the "man" himself. All Hat, No Cattle.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
37. are they friendly spirits...?
"...wanna see me pull a rabbit out of a hat?"

why does this article make me see bullwinkle?
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DixieBlue Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
39. Better watch out Norway ...
"Norway’s immense oil wealth and its position as a global energy supplier have created both a new sense of independence and enormous economic interests to protect."

We might come sniffing around for WMD if you don't play nice.
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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
40. Here's the REAL reason why the Ambassador
is putting some "mild" pressure on Norway. Note = mild, compared with how we are treating some other countries.

Norway is an oil producer. Norway currently pumps 3 million barrels per day. That makes you a major player in the world market. If you have oil, you are a potential troublemaker for the US. Even if you are not a troublemaker, the US will make sure you never BECOME one by harassing and haranging you, keeping you under its thumb. It desperately needs to assert its control over you, just in case you happen to realize it's the PRODUCER and not the END USER who holds all the cards.

Economy
Main article: Economy of Norway
The Norwegian economy is a prosperous bastion of social capitalism, featuring a combination of free market activity and government intervention. The government controls key areas, such as the vital petroleum sector (through large-scale state enterprises). The country is richly endowed with natural resources - petroleum, hydropower, fish, forests, and minerals - and is highly dependent on its oil production and international oil prices; in 1999, oil and gas accounted for 35% of exports. Only Saudi Arabia and Russia export more oil than Norway, which is outside OPEC.

Lycka till, och glöm inte, att mycket kan hända om två år.

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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #40
50. US Keeps Pushing Norway To Buy Joint Strike Fighter Jets (23 May 06)
US President George W Bush's new man in Oslo applied some not-so-subtle pressure on Norway to buy US Joint Strike Fighter jets this week, saying a failure to do so would weaken military operations between the countries .. Political observers listening to his speech had no doubts that the US will evaluate Norway's final decision on the jet fighters as an indication of how closely Norway wants to cooperate with the US .. http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1327310.ece
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
41. Best line in the speech:
"poorly governed states are not just a burden to their own people and a humanitarian concern, but now pose a security threat to us all"

lol
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
43. presuming to lecture Scandinavian countries about governance ...
... when some of them have democratic traditions going back centuries before Washington D.C. even existed ... even I, with relatively little knowledge of history, think this is ludicrous! And as for overseas diplomacy and nation-building, Norway is far more active in this than he is giving them credit for. Norway has many international aid projects which I bet the ambassador has never heard of (a former schoolmate of mine works for one, in Sri Lanka).

If the Bush Administration would stop bothering people, and do some work on major issues for a change -- they might actually learn something. They would do well to copy Norway's example.
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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
44. He should have asked them about whale hunting
I know I would have.

It looks to me like the ambassador got paid by the word on this one.

Peace.
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DiscussTheTruth Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 04:23 AM
Response to Original message
46. Did you Read this Part?
"Indeed, the agenda for such a 21st century partnership between Norway and the U.S. is large. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has spoken of the need for a “transformational diplomacy” where the U.S. will work with close partners like Norway to help build and sustain democratic states that both meet the needs of their people and operate responsibly in the international system. This is our best chance to truly combat terrorism. It is both morally right and in our self-interest to seek transformation in far-flung places like Afghanistan, Iraq, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Burma, Kosovo, Belarus, Haiti, and Darfur. And we do - and we should."

We are building democratic states? Is there some extra military plans that the Americans should be made aware of? Is there some sort of strange good old boys club these guys sprout from? This is really freaky to be hearing from another leader right after Bush and Blair speech.
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
47. Net meeting between the ambassador and the readers of paper 'Dagbladet'
"Scaring

I would like to continue being friens with the US (I have lots of friends there), but I dont like to be told what our country should do to "earn your friendship". I was against the war in Iraq, and I still am. Where is the WMD and where is the link between Saddam and 9/11? Experts even in your own country has denied that these links excists... Guantanamo is a disaster, I think there are innocent people there, and you cant hold innocent people there forever can you?? Or maybe the US can??
When they are released, and I am sure they will be one day, they will not thank you for being released... I am sure you will get a revenge, and I dont want to be there to take the blaim as your friend, since Norway was against the war in the first place...
I will give you credit for trying to do the best, but in my opinion your administration has often done it in a "clumsy" way. Not even listening to its own advisers - how smart is that??
The result has been that the world is getting even more dangerous that it was before.

And that scares us.
Innsendt av: Emma

Dear Emma,

Thanks for your questions. I appreciate your recognizing that our country tries to do its best. While we don't always get it right, I believe our intentions are to make the world a better and safer place. I understand you and many Norwegians opposed the war in Iraq. But I hope you can now support the aspirations of the Iraqi people to build a free and democratic nation. The Iraqi people deserve our -- and your -- support in creating a better future. I think it is most constructive to move on and to deal with the present and future. Dwelling on our disagreements, however honest those disagreements are, is not productive.
Ambassador Ben Whitney"

----------------------------------------

'Dwelling on our disagreements, however honest those disagreements are, is not productive'?
Did I hear GET OVER IT ...?

And this, lol:

"important?


isn't norway really just a tiny little corner in scandinavia of no significance?
i can't quite understand what the fuzz is about, we seem to have problems getting anyone's attention because our market is so small...i would think that goes in questions of being an ally or not too. What can we really contribute with? there are no people here anyway! ;)
Innsendt av: espen

Espen,

I really appreciate that there are so many questions to answer this afternoon. It means that a lot of people care about the relationship between Norway and the United States. Unfortunately, it also means I won't be able to answer everyone's question, for which I apologize. (To be honest, I have to leave at 3 because I promised to take my three sons to the sporting goods store to buy new hiking boots for a trip we are taking to the Hardangervidda in July.)

As to your question, I think you underestimate the importance of Norway and the importance of our relationship. Historically, we truly held together to win the Cold War and today we are working as equal partners in places like Sri Lanka, Haiti and Darfur. Both nations have important work to do -- together.
Ambassador Ben Whitney"

'I think you underestimate the importance of Norway and the importance of our relationship'

The importance is, sorted by importance:

OIL


MORE OIL


THE REST OF THE OIL

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Marcus11 Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-26-06 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. My post :D
I am actually shocked that he answered my question (Emma - Marcus is my cats name..)
But I am disappointed that he didn't answer more than 15 questions - I am sure that he got lots of them - since his speech got 1500 comments....

Oh well, you cant have it all can you?
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. Welcome to the DU, Marcus11
Good question you asked, I think :-)

Yes, he didn't answer many questions. I guess it takes some time to think of an answer for each, so it's the way those net meetings work. Have a nice Saturday!
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Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
51. Is this title accurate? Where does he say that? n/t
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Marcus11 Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-30-06 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. .
I guess this is a feeling we have had since our last Prime Minister said no to support the war in Iraq, after a direct telephone call from Bush himself, and the Ambassador then (John Doyle Ong) had a speech where he more or less said that this could lead to consequenses... Like "you are with us or against us".....

And that kind of "treats" pisses us of... (pardon my language....)

What kind of sense does that make??? If you are my friend, you should go to war with me even though you think its wrong... (...and the three last years haven't changed my mind about Iraq.. )

Btw, I saw this movie last Sunday. Its was very interesting: http://www.independentintervention.com/



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