Big Fight in Trafalgar Square 1000 people broke thru police cordon

[Say_What]

according to IndyMedia UK

On edit: Oops, thought I was in GD.. :-)


<19:25>: A big fight has started in Trafalgar Square: there have been arrests, number not yet known. About 1000 people have broken through the police cordon, and moved to Piccadilly Circus. Police are currently cordoning the bottom of Regent Street near Pall Mall.
<19:15>: A large group, possibly about 500, are leaving Trafalgar Square via Pall Mall. Others wanted to follow, but police enforced the cordon.
<19:10>: The samba band and clowns have now linked up and have attracted a goodly crowd. The police are starting to cordon Trafalgar Square, and there are lines of cops moving into position at the top northwest corner of Trafalgar Square between the National Gallery and the Canadian High Commission. The cordon has not yet closed, and people are still being allowed to leave. To view a time lapse video of Trafalgar Square from a webcam 16:00-19:00, click here <3.4 MB>.
<18:48>: The mood of the protesters at the entrance to The Mall is still energetic.
<18:47>:The fire crew has been withdrawn from Trafalgar Square. A large cardboard tank is being burnt on the back of a float, and an effigy of bush is being burnt as well, along with a couple of usa flags, all at the south end of the Square by Whitehall. Click here to listen.
<18:35>: Just outside Trafalgar Square, speeches are still going on. People are still in Trafalgar Square in large numbers, and the mood is pleasant.
<18:30>: The tail end of the demo has just entered Trafalgar Square via Charing Cross Rd. Firefighters are standing by in case the placard fires get out of hand. The general mood is good, with chanting, whistles and celebration. The end of the demo was greeted with huge roars from the crowd.
<18:01>: For the last 45-60 mins, police have not been letting people into the Square via Whitehall, but diverting so people enter via Charing Cross Road. The samba band spent quite a time outside the entrance to Downing St. People are still coming into the Square.
<18:00>: The 3 people arrested this morning for trying to hang a banner across Admiralty Arch are still being held at Charing Cross police station over 9 hours after they were arrested. As far as we know they were only arrested for causing a public nuisance. It seems that the police are deliberately holding them for ages to prevent them having any more fun today.
<17:52>: In Trafalgar Square, fires are being lit to keep people warm. Plenty of drumming going on too.There's a police line across the Whitehall/Trafalgar Square junction, then another police line further down Whitehall. There are no protesters in between. Behind the second police line, there are more protesters including a samba band. Trafalgar Square is still full, as are the surrounding streets. There's also a police line at Pall Mall/Trafalgar Square junction. Police are not letting people out (in any numbers) of Trafalgar Square via Pall Mall or Whitehall.

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2003/11/281262.html

[Kolesar]

1. Damn. I wanted this to be peaceful

What is the sense of breaking through a cordon? This is not a rock concert.

[Occulus]

3. I predict this happening here.

And I predict it will become increasingly bloody. Martial law will be declared, but since all our troops will be overseas, local police will be given military powers.

At what point, revolution.

[jayfish]

15. It May Be Upon Us.

I fear for what might become of my children if it blooms, but with hardened partisanship (on both sides) continuing to spread it's influence and without any sign of reconciliation, revolution may indeed be at hand.

Jay

[Shadder]

22. Agree 100%

It seems to me that this hads been building up slowly for the past 6 years or so, and it's getting worse at a much faster rate than previously. I'm highly concerned as to what the next few years may bring for this country. Sadly, I really only see things getting worse before it's over...if it's ever over.

[Say_What]

23. It got worse during Vietnam too, Kent State, DNC in Daley's Chicago

and as it got worse it just kept getting bigger--more and more people came out, more and more became outraged.

[durutti]

35. Thing is...

Most people are still under the pseudo-patriotic spell of 9/11.

To establish a mass progressive or revolutionary consciousness, I believe it's necessary to popularize the LIHOP idea to the point where (like the Kennedy assassination conspiracies) it's accepted by most people.

[CaptainClark23]

21. It won't be televised

of this we can be certain

[joeunderdog]

31. Blessing in disguise. We need a little police action for coverage.

Any publicity is better than no publicity. Most of the American Ostriches don't even know there's a protest, much less an enormous, impassioned crowd of dissidents.

Hope no one gets hurt because this is all about too many people getting hurt or killed already.

[Nederland]

2. Oh the Irony

Violence at a peace rally. Don't these people realize they aren't doing us any favors?

[NNN0LHI]

4. Peace rally? I thought it was a hate Bush rally? n/t

[Occulus]

5. They're NOT doing us favors,

but at the same time, once a trend like this begins, it all too often spirals to a climax.

[BlackFrancis]

7. *shrug*

I wouldn't be there to smoke dope and contemplate my navel and wonder why we all can't get along.

You can be anti-Iraq Attaq without being a pacifist.

[Myra]

13. If the London police are like the Seattle/Portland police

Then they started the trouble and blamed it on the crowd
as an excuse for kicking ass and squelching dissent.
I've been to a ton of protests in my neck of the woods,
and I've *never* seen "trouble" that wasn't initiated
by the police. Among their favorite excuses:

"Someone threw a bottle/rock at police."

Odd, the legal observers state otherwise and no one
but the cops see that happen. Oh, and of course they
always wait until the TV cameras are gone, though it's
often videotaped by many in the crowd.

They want us to be afraid to protest because we might
get hurt, jailed, then have a police record,
fired from our jobs, not hired for a job, as a result.

I wouldn't that any supposed violence was started by the
protestors. And if it was, maybe Bush and Blair set a bad
example in Iraq by using violence and murder as Plan A.

[The Stranger]

30. I'm glad someone is awake from the Matrix today.

Why is the assumption that the protesters started the violence? And this is the assumption here on the DU?

And people here immediately start turning on the protesters as a result?

No wonder we are where we are.

[Say_What]

17. Check MIAMI --the cops are are provoking trouble there

[BiggJawn]

27. I saw that! "Protestors causing trouble" my ASS!

Cops line up in a phalanx and start to move against the crowd. Those protestors who didn't get out of the way fast enough were made to eat dirt and pinned under those riot shields.
CNN showed it because one of their photogs got "shoved repeatedly".
They'll toe the line only so far, I'd imagine....

[Myra]

37. It's an eye opener to attend a political rally

After being a girl scout/model citizen one's whole
life and naively expecting the police to serve and protect.

Instead, I saw how consistent and methodical they are
about starting trouble and blaming it on the protestors.

Among their favorite tactics:

-(Again) wait until the TV cameras are gone.
(Reference: First Portland Bush protest.)

-Wait until the post rally march starts.
That's when they generally attack 'cause the
crowd is scattered over a large area, and more vulnerable.
The legal observers and witnesses are spread too thin.
(Reference: Many Seattle protests. SOP.)

-Arrest the peace-keepers *first*. As many here
probably know, a good organized rally will have many
civilian peacekeepers among the protesters. They are
the ones largely insuring order. At the WTO anniversary
protest the *first* person arrested was the lead peacekeeper.
Reason? He stepped off the curb onto the street for a second;
actually he was shoved by police off the curb. He was then accused
of deviating from the "permitted parade route."

Once they decide to attack there's no warning, no order to disperse
or else. In fact, that's part of the strategy.
The cops back the crowd into an enclosed space to prevent them
from getting away, then start kicking ass.
One minute people are standing around with their signs.
The next minute they're:

-Being charged by a long unbroken line of cops on horseback.
Horses are scary; when a cop in riot gear is trying to run over
you over with one they're even scarier. (Portland again.)
-Being dragged by the hair and hit with batons by said mounted cops.
-Being pepper sprayed and hit by rubber bullets (most recent Portland
Bush protest).
-Etc.

I actually had a decent opinion of police before attending
street protests. Then I started to see why they're so mistrusted
by so many.

Here are some things the cops actually fear at a protest,
and will help protect you if you can get them:

-A video camera. Bring one if you possibly can.
For example, a Portland cop on horseback was
dragging some poor guy by the hair,
and prolonged chants by the crowd to "let him go, let him go"
did nothing. The cop then looked up and saw about six video
cameras held high and focused right on him and his victim.
He immediately (and roughly) pushed the guy back into the
crowd, turned tail, and rode off. It saved that guy's ass.

-A press pass. No shit. I had (a legit) one at the most
recent Bush protest when he blew thru Seattle/Bellevue a
few months back to shake down the rich at the McCaw mansion.
It was, frankly, sickening to see how deferential they were.
Alluva sudden Officer Friendly, who I learned about as
a school child, was everywhere.

-A legal observer tag can be helpful, but not as helpful
as a video camera or press pass.

Anyway, if the London cops are anything like the
cops I've seen at US protests, they were violent and abusive
and have zero respect for people's civil rights.

[GainesT1958]

6. Those Limeys need to remember they're at a PEACE protest...

NOT a "football match"! x(

Let Dub, Tony Blair and those "blokes" wage war and fight; this protest is SUPPOSED to be about PEACE...put your Hooligan hats away, lads!!

B-)

[truthspeaker]

8. I'd like to see more reports before I pass judgement

We don't know who started swinging first yet. Maybe they were trying to enter an exclusion zone.

[havocmom]

14. Good point. Some of us are old enough to remember agents provoking

lawlessness within peace groups in the 60's. It was one of the reasons the DOJ banned agents infiltrating organizations. PAtriot Act now allows them in again. Don't know what the status is in Britian, but I wouldn't rule anything out with the weasles in power (and my apologies to any weasles on the board).

[NNN0LHI]

9. Maybe they could all sing a refrain from Kumbaya? All together now n/t

[NoKingGeorge]

11. I thought this was a protest against.

A protest against a regime that threatens the world.

[Socialist Christian]

10. I'm all for civil disobediance and all..............

but the line has to be limpid. Someone should have elucidated for them the finer points of a peace rally, busting a few windows and a corridor is nothing, i mean you cant be a total pushover, as long as it doesnt escolate to physical i'm cool, i have a presedent, Jesus turned over the money changers tabale n the temple, he he he.

[E_Zapata]

12. hey you guys: watch and learn............

we can play nice.....and this country and the world will suffer.

We have to express the outrage.

I am shocked that DUers are condemning folks who refuse to be treated like free speech zone focus groups.

We need to get mad HERE.........or we really are just a focus group.

I am not suggesting violence in any way, but until we show our outrage, we may as well stay home. Oh, that's right, we DO just stay home. Hence, the problem.

[monobrau]

16. Shut down London

I agree. You don't play nice with facists.
As tragic as the violence in Watts and Detroit was, that's what pushed the civil rights movement forward.
Shut'em down.

[CheshireCat]

25. Outrage does not equal violence!

You tell it, E_Zapata! We will not be sheep. Civil disobedience and disobeying laws such as tresspassing are not violent acts.

When did Americans come to equate challenging authority with violence?

[NNN0LHI]

28. When did Americans come to equate challenging authority with violence?

1776

Don

[msmcghee]

18. Until you've been in a mass demonstration . .

. . don't condemn the citizens there. In almost all cases the police have a predetermined strategy. They have the communications and the crowd control weapons and all the power to allow or cause whatever they wish to happen.

They know that they can easily provoke the crowd anywhere they wish to their own advantage.

On top of all that in most cases many of the officers that are in those lines have already decided that they will bust heads as soon as they get the go-ahead from their officers - and before that if there is any provocation.

They go into it just like soldiers in a war seeing the citizens as the enemy - especially the younger less experienced officers. It's their chance to beat the shit out of someboday and get away with it - and make their rep as a mean motherfucker in the station house.

Going to a peace march where 100,000 plus will attend - is going to a place where you could very well get your head beat in. My hat is off to all those who are exposing themselves to the full brunt of the BFEE for the cause of world peace for us all.

[grasswire]

19. web cam shows...

...plenty of people still in Trafalgar Square.

http://www.camvista.com/england/london/trafsq.php3

[Say_What]

20. Latest report is that police are being very ROUGH

This site is updated regularly so folks don't have to wonder what the f*ck is going on... http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2003/11/281262.html

<19:44>: A group have broken away at Regent Street, the Sheffield Samba band within it. The police are being very rough with people marching towards Picadilly Circus.
<19:38>: Trafalgar Square: The crow are moving along regent street coming out of Trafalgar Square. Two confirmed arrests there.
<19:32>: Picadilly Circus: Demonstrators are now in picadilly circus, police are cordoning at the bottom of Regent Street near Pall Mall.
<19:26>: There are scuffles between Piccadilly Circus & St James' church. As people try to enter and leave Piccadilly Circus, there is scuffling between protesters & police. Folks are being thrown to the ground, police are grabbing people and de-arresting is taking place.

[catmandu57]

24. The time for peace rallies is over

It's time to decide which side of the fence you want to be on, flowers and signs don't stop tear gas and clubs. It's time to get real here and force the issue. Besides which this is a hate bush* rally.

[bigrootcanal]

26. Peace rally?

What happened to the peace dude? Why push the cops into action? Hello duh.

[matcom]

29. fuck peace

time to take back the streets and we tried peace. time to DEMAND our first amendment rights

my avatar is a peace sign for the rest of the world. in MY world, when it comes to these fascists...........

peace is over

i'll take MY streets back by ANY means necessary

[htuttle]

34. Piece Now!

.

[matcom]

33. OOPS! you can't reply can you

Cause You Have Been A Tombstoned

hhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmm

on edit: i'll be looking for you to try and STOP ME in MY STREETS next time

[Judi Lynn]

38. Thanks for pointing out the tombstone!

I was looking for the guy to get yanked out yesterday. Brought down the tone of the place, wouldn't you say?

[durutti]

36. What good is peace?

Who wants peace? I certainly won't.

I want class war. That's ultimately the only way to acheive lasting peace.

[Malva Zebrina]

32. If there is an urgent message

and no one pays attention to the hundreds of thousands who took the time to go to the street--for instance in this country where the media is see no evil, hear no evil and say no evil re the protests toward our unelected president and his warmongers in Britain today, then it is time to reassess the efficacy of these peacful protests. If they do nothing to raise awareness of the evil co regimes of Bush and Blair, then they are nothing more than a big party that was fun while it lasted.